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annoing
Amarr
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.04.27 10:31:00 -
[1]
All internet/phone usage now will be recorded ... like to l33ch? Like to share? Visiting that free pron site? Phoning your poor lonely mum? Anything that requires electronic usage actually ... next it will be what TV you watch, films seen ..... the list seems endless.
OK, I admit it, I used to be of the opnion that if you had done nothing wrong you had nothing to fear .. now I think they've taken it too far in the name of 'combating crime'. So far infact, I really think now that they are taking the pi$$.
Surely, if you suspect someone you could investigate JUST that persons internet/phone usuage, not everyone else.
Ask to use the Goats Pleasure Palace when you visit the Fanfest this year |
Onus Mian
Amarr
Kingfisher Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.27 10:45:00 -
[2]
That doesn't bother me so much as our governments habit of losing highly sensitive documents on trains, in ditches alongside motorways, on unencrypted cd's and USB sticks in the mail or flashing them to journalists when then get out of cars. If its treated like CCTV where you only look at it if you have good reason and you're not going to lose this information in the meantime then I'm not particually against it. If you're not doing anything wrong then what do you have to worry about?
They'll soon realise its a complete waste of time to monitor people 24/7 when it yields buggerall results because the people they are trying to catch tend to speak in codes rather than what they are actually talking about. It'll then just be another ****-up by this government which it blames on someone else (Police or intellegence services) before telling the populace that there is nothing to be gained by a public enquiry and that we should all just move on.
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Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
- Douglas Adams
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Nebulous
Minmatar
Salvage Junkies
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Posted - 2009.04.27 10:46:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: annoing
All internet/phone usage now will be recorded ... like to l33ch? Like to share? Visiting that free pron site? Phoning your poor lonely mum? Anything that requires electronic usage actually ... next it will be what TV you watch, films seen ..... the list seems endless.
OK, I admit it, I used to be of the opnion that if you had done nothing wrong you had nothing to fear .. now I think they've taken it too far in the name of 'combating crime'. So far infact, I really think now that they are taking the pi$$.
Surely, if you suspect someone you could investigate JUST that persons internet/phone usuage, not everyone else.
The whole monitoring to fight crime is a no brainer anyway, the clever way to deal with crime is to deal with the root cause. Society creates the criminal, then society punishes the criminal for being as it created him.
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Ivana Drake
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.04.27 11:06:00 -
[4]
Quote:
Communications data is an essential tool for law enforcement agencies to track murderers and paedophiles, save lives and tackle crime
They could at least TRY to sound convincing 
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Reven Cordelle
Caldari
Yamainu-Mirai Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.27 11:07:00 -
[5]
Mmmm.. Ridiculous.
It's getting a bit out of hand isn't it. You really have to wonder what this country will be in 10 years time or so.
We have one of the highest fuel prices in the world, the highest rate of (pre)teen Pregnancy, You're now going to be monitored 24/7... I mean even if you have nothing to hide - its still not great knowing that every link you click is documented and will probably be used against you.
I fear for the people new to the internet that get suckered into clicking the goatse link - forever on their permanent record, so to speak.
Its like we're trying to destroy the country for lulz. The UK has absolutely nothing going for it right now.
And you'll notice old "Pron on the Expenses" Jacqui Smith is behind the motion - no doubt she's bitter that she got found out about that copy of "Back Door Birds 'ave It Large 2" she bought on expenses, and is making everyone else suffer for it.
The sooner the elections come up, the better. The Conservatives won't exactly fix the country instantly - but I'd hope that they get their priorities right and stop paying idiots to create useless legislation that just ****es off the people more and more.
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.04.27 11:11:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ivana Drake
Quote:
Communications data is an essential tool for law enforcement agencies to track murderers and paedophiles, save lives and tackle crime
They could at least TRY to sound convincing
THINK OF THE CHILDREN.
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Reven Cordelle
Caldari
Yamainu-Mirai Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.27 11:15:00 -
[7]
Originally by: TraininVain
THINK OF THE CHILDREN.
Yes, think of the children - because in the UK, the children already have children.
Think of the Childrens' Children!
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Nebulous
Minmatar
Salvage Junkies
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Posted - 2009.04.27 11:19:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Reven Cordelle
The sooner the elections come up, the better.
Elections are pointless, do yourself a favour and either a) burn your voting slip. or b) do a protest vote by putting a big "X" through all of them, don't fall for the illusion of democracy, you think cos we get to vote every 5 years that you have some say about what goes on? Did you vote for the VAT decrease? Did you vote to go to war? Did you vote to bail the banks out? And lastly do you think if any of the other political party's were in power it would be any different now?
A politician is ill equipped to make the decisions he or she makes, they apply little or no scientific method to their decisions, if they did then "money" would not exist for a start.
All political party's (even communist) embrace the same ideas on economics, they all revolve around a system of money and labour, this then creates greed, corruption and waste. You never get the opportunity to vote for alternate economics and that is yet another reason why your vote means "nothing".
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2009.04.27 11:34:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Onus Mian
They'll soon realise its a complete waste of time to monitor people 24/7 when it yields buggerall results because the people they are trying to catch tend to speak in codes rather than what they are actually talking about.
All the government claims to be trying to do is establish patterns of communication between people. Even this is going to be pointless, as there are means, such as Tor, of making it almost impossible for anyone to work out who you're contacting. This can be combined with strong encryption.
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20:1 mineral compression
ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2009.04.27 11:41:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Nebulous
A politician is ill equipped to make the decisions he or she makes, they apply little or no scientific method to their decisions, if they did then "money" would not exist for a start.
All political party's (even communist) embrace the same ideas on economics, they all revolve around a system of money and labour, this then creates greed, corruption and waste. You never get the opportunity to vote for alternate economics and that is yet another reason why your vote means "nothing".
Could this possibly be because a (reasonably) free market is such an integral part of our society that it would be unthinkable even to attempt to remove it? What do you propose as an alternative; barter? While I agree with you that most politicians do not base decisions on empirical evidence, I don't see why you think a scientific government would want to do away with money.
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20:1 mineral compression
ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
Doctor Penguin
Amarr
Celestial Ascension
Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2009.04.27 12:30:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Reven Cordelle
The sooner the elections come up, the better. The Conservatives won't exactly fix the country instantly - but I'd hope that they get their priorities right and stop paying idiots to create useless legislation that just ****es off the people more and more.
Or you could vote for the Liberal Democrats, because you know full well that the Tories will do bugger all different from New Labour.
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http://eve.drome.nl/CaodCleaner/ Help make CAOD readable. |
Nebulous
Minmatar
Salvage Junkies
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Posted - 2009.04.27 12:53:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
I don't see why you think a scientific government would want to do away with money.
Well if you apply science to an economy it would recognize waste as a massive negative, for money to work you need a system of waste to run next to it, if a car lasted for 20 years without breaking down then the car company's would fold.
I don't claim to have all the answers but I am a strong believer that a form of technocracy (or technate) is our only salvation, a system of money will wipe us all out, it's just a case of "when" rather than "if", our planet is heading close to the point of no return when it comes to the damage the global monetary system is causing. Of course as you would expect I get a lot of abuse off people when I talk about alternate economics because it is out of their comfort zone, I don't hate them for it I just feel sorry for them, it is one thing to be a slave and another to at least "know" you are one. Back on topic slightly if you remove money from the system then you remove most the reasons crimes are committed, then you lose the need for constant surveillance of the populace.
Take a look at the below websites and do some of your own research, you will soon find that their are good alternatives out there.
http://www.technocracy.org/
http://en.technocracynet.eu/
http://www.thevenusproject.com/
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Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.04.27 12:54:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Doctor Penguin
Originally by: Reven Cordelle
The sooner the elections come up, the better. The Conservatives won't exactly fix the country instantly - but I'd hope that they get their priorities right and stop paying idiots to create useless legislation that just ****es off the people more and more.
Or you could vote for the Liberal Democrats, because you know full well that the Tories will do bugger all different from New Labour.
It needs a radical change at this point - completely agree - tories will just be new labour with a slightly different brand of corruption for their cronies. Its a bit depressing - almost makes me hope we do have a genuine summer of discontent to actually make some political waves leading to something different. At this point its fairly clear the biggest terrorist threats to our way of life are operating out of boardrooms and gentlemens clubs and its time to a say a hearty "screw you" to any further infringement of privacy and civil liberty.
ISSUE - Bring Space Bushido to CAOD |
Tallaran Kouros
Caldari
Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.27 13:14:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Nebulous
Originally by: Reven Cordelle
Elections are pointless, do yourself a favour and either a) burn your voting slip. or b) do a protest vote by putting a big "X" through all of them, don't fall for the illusion of democracy, you think cos we get to vote every 5 years that you have some say about what goes on? Did you vote for the VAT decrease? Did you vote to go to war? Did you vote to bail the banks out?
Why are you complaining about these decisions if you are advocating removing one's self from the process of deciding just who makes these decisions?
You sound like my sister, a nurse. She is always complaining about how nurses get a raw deal, how the pay is poor, how the NHS is underfunded etc etc.
Now, these are all valid complains but has she written to her local NHS trust?
The Health Minister?
Her MP?
Her MSP?
Did she even vote at the last election?
I'll tell you the answer - no to every one..
I always get annoyed when people continually complain about our politicians and institutions yet steadfastly refuse to do anything about changing said politicians and institutions.
Quote:
And lastly do you think if any of the other political party's were in power it would be any different now?
If by "now" you mean at the previous General Election then I doubt it, as the seeds of chaos had already been sown in the reform of the financial services industry following the Labour landslide in 1997.
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Tallaran Kouros
Caldari
Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.27 13:15:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Nebulous
Elections are pointless, do yourself a favour and either a) burn your voting slip. or b) do a protest vote by putting a big "X" through all of them, don't fall for the illusion of democracy, you think cos we get to vote every 5 years that you have some say about what goes on? Did you vote for the VAT decrease? Did you vote to go to war? Did you vote to bail the banks out?
Why are you complaining about these decisions if you are advocating removing one's self from the process of deciding just who makes these decisions?
You sound like my sister, a nurse. She is always complaining about how nurses get a raw deal, how the pay is poor, how the NHS is underfunded etc etc.
Now, these are all valid complains but has she written to her local NHS trust?
The Health Minister?
Her MP?
Her MSP?
Did she even vote at the last election?
I'll tell you the answer - no to every one..
I always get annoyed when people continually complain about our politicians and institutions yet steadfastly refuse to do anything about changing said politicians and institutions.
Quote:
And lastly do you think if any of the other political party's were in power it would be any different now?
If by "now" you mean at the previous General Election then I doubt it, as the seeds of chaos had already been sown in the reform of the financial services industry following the Labour landslide in 1997.
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Nebulous
Minmatar
Salvage Junkies
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Posted - 2009.04.27 13:21:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Nebulous on 27/04/2009 13:28:29
Edited by: Nebulous on 27/04/2009 13:25:17
Originally by: Tallaran Kouros
I always get annoyed when people continually complain about our politicians and institutions yet steadfastly refuse to do anything about changing said politicians and institutions.
You have got me confused, I am against politics full stop, politics is powered by it's own agenda and all you vote for is the person, you have no say in the decisions they make, thats why voting is pointless, it's an illusion to make you feel as though you have freedom.
If I put three different types of ****roach on a plate and ask you to eat one of them you would probably tell me to go take a hike(or worse I would imagine ), voting for a politician is a similar choice.
Edit: I do my part to change things when I can, but voting for politicians is not the answer, infact i have wrote to a few politicians about the irrelevence of money and politics in modern society, never recieved anything back though.
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Ratchman
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Posted - 2009.04.27 14:14:00 -
[17]
People who argue the point that it is not worth voting anymore have simply given up, effectively giving tacit compliance to those in power (or whomever supercedes them). You might not like the alternatives you've been given, but if you don't vote at all, you waive any right to complain about who does get in, as you had no interest in the voting process.
If you have three alternatives that are distatesful to you, then choose the lesser of the evils. No-one said changing the world was going to be easy. No-one promised you that it would be done overnight. Political change takes time, generations even. But if you give up, then everything goes in stasis and the status quo remains. Some of the changes I have seen in my life have taken 20-30 years, others are still ongoing.
Do you think this internet monitoring issue will go away if you ignore it? No, it won't. You have to complain about it. And you have to keep complaining. Your ISP introduces it? Go to another. They all introduce it? Stop using the internet entirely. If enough people follow suit, the government will have no choice but to relent, because business will pillory them for forcing their online business away.
Every person that gives up like that makes it easier for the wrong person to take power.
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.04.27 14:17:00 -
[18]
Quote:
People who argue the point that it is not worth voting anymore have simply given up, effectively giving tacit compliance to those in power (or whomever supercedes them). You might not like the alternatives you've been given, but if you don't vote at all, you waive any right to complain about who does get in, as you had no interest in the voting process.
On the contrary, you legitimise the current system by voting even if you dislike the current candidates.
Not that having a shakey mandate because of low turnout slows em down at all when they are in :/
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Jacob Mei
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Posted - 2009.04.27 14:23:00 -
[19]
Welcome to the twenty first century, hallmarks include: war on terrorism, the first African American president in the United States, mass surveillance of the English population and the arrival of the four horsemen on earth in incarnate form.
Seriously though, as technology increases humanities ability to maneuver will decrease. How long until mandatory GPS chip implantation? IÆm sure thatÆs the wet dream of the ôwatching your every move to protect youö crowd.
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To borrow a phrase:
Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
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Tallaran Kouros
Caldari
Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.27 14:56:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Nebulous
If I put three different types of ****roach on a plate and ask you to eat one of them you would probably tell me to go take a hike(or worse I would imagine), voting for a politician is a similar choice.
Apples and Oranges.
Eating or not eating the ****roach has absolutely no bearing on my daily life whatsoever, whereas voting people into office has a potentially huge impact on my quality of life, the amount of tax I pay, and how much personal freedom I enjoy.
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Nebulous
Minmatar
Salvage Junkies
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Posted - 2009.04.27 14:58:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Ratchman
People who argue the point that it is not worth voting anymore have simply given up, effectively giving tacit compliance to those in power (or whomever supercedes them). You might not like the alternatives you've been given, but if you don't vote at all, you waive any right to complain about who does get in, as you had no interest in the voting process.
Yes politicians pretty much say the same thing on those crappy TV and radio ads, which adds more to my case that your statement is a load of sweaty old socks.
You like most people are missing the point, there is no economic difference between the parties, they all support the money/waste system, as I said earlier politics is irrelevant in modern society, a politician is not skilled enough to make the decisions he/she makes, the decisions are made with profit in mind instead of what is good for us all and the planet.
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Bodrul
Caldari
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
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Posted - 2009.04.27 15:03:00 -
[22]
cant wait till my Unis over and i have paid my fees back
country is turning into a sh***ole
every day our liberties are slowly eroded by crackheads in parliment.
WIN 200 Mill ISK, FREE ENTRY |
JitaBum
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.04.27 15:05:00 -
[23]
Edited by: JitaBum on 27/04/2009 15:05:37
But guyz, they have our best interests at heart
Also, if you're doing nothing wrong, you've nothing to worry about. EVER.
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Nebulous
Minmatar
Salvage Junkies
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Posted - 2009.04.27 15:08:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Tallaran Kouros
the amount of tax I pay
Does your choice of politician let you vote on how much tax you want to pay? No!
Originally by: Tallaran Kouros
and how much personal freedom I enjoy.
Something else you don't get to vote for.
My point is the same as earlier, your so called democracy begins and ends at that one vote you make, the decisions from then on you have nothing to do with........well unless your a rich property developer who is willing to slip them a bung for permission to build somewhere, corruption.... another negative to politics.
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Tallaran Kouros
Caldari
Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.27 15:24:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Nebulous
Originally by: Tallaran Kouros
the amount of tax I pay
Does your choice of politician let you vote on how much tax you want to pay? No!
Yes.
Ideologically the certain parties oppose expanding the so-called nanny state and would rather tax people less and leave the individual more choice to make their own provision when it comes to personal care, retirement planning etc etc
Originally by: Tallaran Kouros
and how much personal freedom I enjoy.
Something else you don't get to vote for.
Except I do - the Conservatives have publicly committed to ditching ContactPoint, scrapping identity cards and are making strong noises about also scrapping the hugely delayed and overbudget NHS IT system.
Quote:
My point is the same as earlier, your so called democracy begins and ends at that one vote you make, the decisions from then on you have nothing to do with
I am aware of that, but any party foolish enough to scrap the manifesto commitments upon which they were elected will quickly lose the faith of the electorate.
Look at Scotland and the shambles of the SNP - they have been forced to scrap so many key policies and turn around so many pre-election promises that there is no way they will win the next election.
I agree that it's not a perfect system, but I would much rather have the chance to vote people out every few years than has the hassle and expense of consulting the populace via referendum for every major decisions.
It's a trade-off that works for most people and most countries and I don't see any need to change it.
Besides, if I were to ever be *that* upset and annoyed then there is little to stop me standing for election to Parliament myself.
Quote:
well unless your a rich property developer who is willing to slip them a bung for permission to build somewhere, corruption.... another negative to politics.
Yes, there are corrupt politicians.
However, western politicians are paid high enough salary that it's going to be extremely difficult to buy off enough politicians to swing a Parliamentary vote.
There have been scandals such as the Hinduja Affair and Cash for Questions but by and large, I honestly believe that western politics is free of the wide-scale and petty corruption that you would see in say, Chad or Nigeria.
That's not to say that you don't get people doing favours over planning permission like you say, but it's rarer than you might think.
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Xen Gin
Solar Excavations Ultd.
Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.27 15:47:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Xen Gin on 27/04/2009 15:49:05
Originally by: annoing
All internet/phone usage now will be recorded ... like to l33ch? Like to share? Visiting that free pron site? Phoning your poor lonely mum? Anything that requires electronic usage actually ... next it will be what TV you watch, films seen ..... the list seems endless.
OK, I admit it, I used to be of the opnion that if you had done nothing wrong you had nothing to fear .. now I think they've taken it too far in the name of 'combating crime'. So far infact, I really think now that they are taking the pi$$.
Surely, if you suspect someone you could investigate JUST that persons internet/phone usuage, not everyone else.
This was all done anyway, individually by those companies, the government is making sure it has quick access to it, and that the companies do keep hold of the information.
What it seems that the Government is doing is making sure they have warrant-less access, which is what I am vehemently opposed to. Also this NuLabour Government has a history of selling data to the corporations, which is even worse as a Civil Liberty invasion.
The only saving grace is that the contents of such communications are not stored (not physically enough storage space in the world for that!)
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Cipher7
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Posted - 2009.04.27 16:00:00 -
[27]
Nothing will change until Rome burns.
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Xen Gin
Solar Excavations Ultd.
Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2009.04.27 16:23:00 -
[28]
It probably doesn't help that the UK government isn't proportional representation. Something I think which the Lib Dems say they would change, so there is always a way to change even the democratic nature of the Government.
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Gin G
Halls Of Valhalla
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Posted - 2009.04.27 16:59:00 -
[29]
and the terrorists will still get through and kill us and spread hate about us and only get a slap on the wrist when they do
time to move to the moon with ******
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Legionos McGuiros
Caldari
Novus Aevum Transport and Industries
Novus Aevum
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Posted - 2009.04.27 18:08:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Tallaran Kouros
I agree that it's not a perfect system, but I would much rather have the chance to vote people out every few years than has the hassle and expense of consulting the populace via referendum for every major decisions.
I honestly think that we will go towards a demarchist (look up revelation space) style democracy system where it is almost completly direct (referendums are direct forms of democracy, the uk is primarily a representative democracy) and yes atm a direct system is impracticle but under the demarchist system everyone has implants in their heads which people can quickly provide their vote.
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