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Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 12:02:00 - [31] Originally by: Lui Kai Edited by: Lui Kai on 28/04/2009 11:50:45 Though I have no mentionable reputation in MD - I'm one of the folks who've reserved 100 A-stock. I've talked with Ji about the IPO in SCC - and told him my impression on it. I pointed out that the IPO has 0 in-game failsafes, and the only out of game failsafe would be pestering him/his friends/family via Facebook/Myspace. Despite this fact, I chose to invest for purely subjective reasons (I'm of the impression that Ji values his character/corporate rep more than the funds he's raising). I'm investing (very) modestly, and the return is respectable. Ji openly agreed with me that he found the above accurate. Confirming we are in agreement on the security issues.. Thanks for the kind words.. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Takemikazuki Celrydreahad Finance	Posted - 2009.04.28 12:17:00 - [32] It would be a smoother launch if ye arranged an audit before presenting the IPO to the public.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 12:27:00 - [33] Originally by: Takemikazuki It would be a smoother launch if ye arranged an audit before presenting the IPO to the public. i actually never planned on doing this without an audit. i have contacted an auditor that has worked for me in the past. we will see if the auditor accepts my proposal.. if not then your right, it would create a bump in the launch... Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Viktor Raybach	Posted - 2009.04.28 13:28:00 - [34] Originally by: Ji Sama i actually never planned on doing this without an audit. i have contacted an auditor that has worked for me in the past. we will see if the auditor accepts my proposal.. if not then your right, it would create a bump in the launch... That's odd because you made no mention of an audit in any of your initial material. When I raised the subject of an audit you stated you'd do one if the investors asked, later clarified to if the potential investors asked. You then went on to say you'd do one. Could you explain why, if you planned on doing an audit from the start, you made no mention of it until asked and didn't contact an auditor until after it had been raised in the thread? It might seem like a very minor point as far as the timeline is concerned, but I have a distrust of inconsistency in any business proposal or explanation of such.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 13:36:00 - [35] Originally by: Viktor Raybach Originally by: Ji Sama i actually never planned on doing this without an audit. i have contacted an auditor that has worked for me in the past. we will see if the auditor accepts my proposal.. if not then your right, it would create a bump in the launch... That's odd because you made no mention of an audit in any of your initial material. When I raised the subject of an audit you stated you'd do one if the investors asked, later clarified to if the potential investors asked. You then went on to say you'd do one. Could you explain why, if you planned on doing an audit from the start, you made no mention of it until asked and didn't contact an auditor until after it had been raised in the thread? It might seem like a very minor point as far as the timeline is concerned, but I have a distrust of inconsistency in any business proposal or explanation of such. The reason you have holes are because you arenÆt in my loop... And that is not your own fault, so I will enlighten. I tried to convo up my auditor earlier today. He was afk. I then announce in the scc-lounge that I am launching TMP Industries as an IPO. I then get into various private chats with different people from the MD where they all are very helpful in pointing out things I need to elaborate on. That being the lack of audit information amongst others. My plan was, just to have the auditor post here, confirming that he would be doing the audit. I think what you see as inconsistencies are simply my limited vocabulary and lack of ability to properly make my self understandable.. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
HawkBlade Minmatar The Higher Standard Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2009.04.28 14:24:00 - [36] Originally by: Takemikazuki It would be a smoother launch if ye arranged an audit before presenting the IPO to the public. Originally by: Ji Sama i actually never planned on doing this without an audit. i have contacted an auditor that has worked for me in the past. I've done some auditing for Ji Sama before so I'll go ahead and dip into this one again. The delay was purely my own as Ji did try contacting me prior to the posting. I can see why people may think that waiting for the audit results might be wise but the flipside not waiting shows a mark of confidence in the results. (I've been busy the past couple of days - Ooops) Please allow 24 - 48 hours for me to do this. Also we haven't discussed any compensation (though in the past Ji has, imho, overcompensated me for work done) so I'd like to say, "Don't count your reservations as firm until I've had a chance to argue payroll with Ji."
flakeys Tier 3 Technologies Inc Lazy is our middle name	Posted - 2009.04.28 14:30:00 - [37] Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: Takemikazuki It would be a smoother launch if ye arranged an audit before presenting the IPO to the public. Originally by: Ji Sama i actually never planned on doing this without an audit. i have contacted an auditor that has worked for me in the past. I've done some auditing for Ji Sama before so I'll go ahead and dip into this one again. The delay was purely my own as Ji did try contacting me prior to the posting. I can see why people may think that waiting for the audit results might be wise but the flipside not waiting shows a mark of confidence in the results. (I've been busy the past couple of days - Ooops) Please allow 24 - 48 hours for me to do this. Also we haven't discussed any compensation (though in the past Ji has, imho, overcompensated me for work done) so I'd like to say, "Don't count your reservations as firm until I've had a chance to argue payroll with Ji." Moslty because there was no mention of an audit in the primary offering and when asked he stated only when the question arrizes from investors for an audit.Then above he replied he allways meant to do an audit. I can see how the other poster would find this odd and in contradiciton with the OP's previous words. I am sure with you backing him up on the fact he asked for it prior to the offering it will assure people of his intentions.
HawkBlade Minmatar The Higher Standard Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2009.04.28 14:35:00 - [38] Originally by: flakeys I can see how the other poster would find this odd and in contradiciton with the OP's previous words. I am sure with you backing him up on the fact he asked for it prior to the offering it will assure people of his intentions. IMHO, grill the hell out of him. Just because I'm doing an audit doens't mean he gets a pass on the usual roasting. I just can't do it (though I'd like to) as my position is a bit ambiguous at this point.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 14:36:00 - [39] Originally by: flakeys Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: Takemikazuki It would be a smoother launch if ye arranged an audit before presenting the IPO to the public. Originally by: Ji Sama i actually never planned on doing this without an audit. i have contacted an auditor that has worked for me in the past. I've done some auditing for Ji Sama before so I'll go ahead and dip into this one again. The delay was purely my own as Ji did try contacting me prior to the posting. I can see why people may think that waiting for the audit results might be wise but the flipside not waiting shows a mark of confidence in the results. (I've been busy the past couple of days - Ooops) Please allow 24 - 48 hours for me to do this. Also we haven't discussed any compensation (though in the past Ji has, imho, overcompensated me for work done) so I'd like to say, "Don't count your reservations as firm until I've had a chance to argue payroll with Ji." Moslty because there was no mention of an audit in the primary offering and when asked he stated only when the question arrizes from investors for an audit.Then above he replied he allways meant to do an audit. I can see how the other poster would find this odd and in contradiciton with the OP's previous words. I am sure with you backing him up on the fact he asked for it prior to the offering it will assure people of his intentions. Well i actually need to step in here for a little sec. The way this was posted, it was prior to post. I can see i wasnt clear enough on what i meant with; the investors gets an audit if they want one. I was mainly refering to ASTOCK as i knew these would sell before any audit could be concluded. I have always said, and im saying it again; that if i was ever to launch an IPO, i would disclose RL data, all accounts and alt, and submit to peer review and a full audit.. The blame is on me for not being clear enough on this... Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 14:37:00 - [40] Edited by: Ji Sama on 28/04/2009 14:38:47 Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: flakeys I can see how the other poster would find this odd and in contradiciton with the OP's previous words. I am sure with you backing him up on the fact he asked for it prior to the offering it will assure people of his intentions. IMHO, grill the hell out of him. Just because I'm doing an audit doens't mean he gets a pass on the usual roasting. I just can't do it (though I'd like to) as my position is a bit ambiguous at this point. Well i would expect you to give me no parlor in this audit... So bring me what you got... EDIT: also i have informed Hawk that no matter the outcome of the audit, he will get full compensation for is work... just so we are clear here... Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Viktor Raybach	Posted - 2009.04.28 14:53:00 - [41] Edited by: Viktor Raybach on 28/04/2009 14:54:57 Originally by: Ji Sama The reason you have holes are because you arenÆt in my loop... And that is not your own fault, so I will enlighten. I tried to convo up my auditor earlier today. He was afk. I then announce in the scc-lounge that I am launching TMP Industries as an IPO. I then get into various private chats with different people from the MD where they all are very helpful in pointing out things I need to elaborate on. That being the lack of audit information amongst others. My plan was, just to have the auditor post here, confirming that he would be doing the audit. I think what you see as inconsistencies are simply my limited vocabulary and lack of ability to properly make my self understandable.. Minor point but that's still not matching up with the timeline. You announce IPO, make no mention of Audit I raise the subject of audit You say one will be done if the investors/potential investors ask for one Other people say an audit is needed Only then do you say that you're going to do an audit. It's not until after this that you then say you always intended to do one. However that's directly contradicted by your earlier statement that you'd have one done if the investors asked you to. Note, you'd do one if they asked, not 'I of course will get one done and am waiting to hear back from an auditor'. With Shar confirming it then your claim's born out but that's not what you said, and it certainly wasn't reflected in your responses on the subject. As I said, it's a minor point, but it's inconsistent.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 15:05:00 - [42] Originally by: Viktor Raybach Edited by: Viktor Raybach on 28/04/2009 14:54:57 Originally by: Ji Sama The reason you have holes are because you arenÆt in my loop... And that is not your own fault, so I will enlighten. I tried to convo up my auditor earlier today. He was afk. I then announce in the scc-lounge that I am launching TMP Industries as an IPO. I then get into various private chats with different people from the MD where they all are very helpful in pointing out things I need to elaborate on. That being the lack of audit information amongst others. My plan was, just to have the auditor post here, confirming that he would be doing the audit. I think what you see as inconsistencies are simply my limited vocabulary and lack of ability to properly make my self understandable.. Minor point but that's still not matching up with the timeline. You announce IPO, make no mention of Audit I raise the subject of audit You say one will be done if the investors/potential investors ask for one Other people say an audit is needed Only then do you say that you're going to do an audit. It's not until after this that you then say you always intended to do one. However that's directly contradicted by your earlier statement that you'd have one done if the investors asked you to. Note, you'd do one if they asked, not 'I of course will get one done and am waiting to hear back from an auditor'. With Shar confirming it then your claim's born out but that's not what you said, and it certainly wasn't reflected in your responses on the subject. As I said, it's a minor point, but it's inconsistent. Well your right anyways... It is an inconsistency, i have tried to explain this.. This IPO isnt something that was launched on a day to day basis. The model have been under quite some discussion, and i was actually convinced into limiting the audit i wanted... There are many from the Lounge and the MD forum that will confirm what i have said. If i where to launch an IPO i would always commit to an audit... I was talking in context about the ASTOCK shares. I hope we have cleared this matter out now. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
HawkBlade Minmatar The Higher Standard Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2009.04.28 15:15:00 - [43] Originally by: Viktor Raybach As I said, it's a minor point, but it's inconsistent. If this is as bad as the critique of this IPO is going to get, Ji's got this one in the bag even without an audit. (I.e. Tempest in a teapot it seems)
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2009.04.28 16:02:00 - [44] Originally by: Ji Sama Currently there is one other director role-holder in the corporation, and that is Scorpious Kross. It seems unlikely to be necessary to audit all employees (if the enterprise's exposure to each is sufficiently limited). However, a second Director sounds like (at least) one more account for the auditor to examine.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.04.28 16:06:00 - [45] Originally by: Thoraemond Originally by: Ji Sama Currently there is one other director role-holder in the corporation, and that is Scorpious Kross. It seems unlikely to be necessary to audit all employees (if the enterprise's exposure to each is sufficiently limited). However, a second Director sounds like (at least) one more account for the auditor to examine. I should be a requirement, anyone with director roles and access has damn near the same liability as a CEO as far as a public interest goes. Standard employees can be skipped for the most part, however names will need to be provided so that a background check against eve-search and employment history can be done. Depending on time involved, whoever is doing the audit should spend at least 3-4 hours on this one. Scrubbing your corporate wallets, your director's wallet, your wallet, and then spamming that against employment histories. ...at least this is what I would do.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 16:59:00 - [46] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Originally by: Thoraemond Originally by: Ji Sama Currently there is one other director role-holder in the corporation, and that is Scorpious Kross. It seems unlikely to be necessary to audit all employees (if the enterprise's exposure to each is sufficiently limited). However, a second Director sounds like (at least) one more account for the auditor to examine. I should be a requirement, anyone with director roles and access has damn near the same liability as a CEO as far as a public interest goes. Standard employees can be skipped for the most part, however names will need to be provided so that a background check against eve-search and employment history can be done. Depending on time involved, whoever is doing the audit should spend at least 3-4 hours on this one. Scrubbing your corporate wallets, your director's wallet, your wallet, and then spamming that against employment histories. ...at least this is what I would do. That is a fair point, i would have to run it past him of course before giving his api out. Though it is an uninteresting account in regards to the corp assets and wallets. Since he doesnt have the roles because he has the qualifications to be a NCO, (in EVE that is.) But he purely have these roles because i have known him for 23 years and i would trust him with my life (we serve in the same squad in the national guard) So i never thought twice about granting him director roles. He is also the corps failsafe mechanism should i be hit by a bus. I will get his agreement to send his API key to Hawk... Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Viktor Raybach	Posted - 2009.04.28 17:23:00 - [47] Edited by: Viktor Raybach on 28/04/2009 17:23:54 Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: Viktor Raybach As I said, it's a minor point, but it's inconsistent. If this is as bad as the critique of this IPO is going to get, Ji's got this one in the bag even without an audit. (I.e. Tempest in a teapot it seems) 1) Contentious (note contentious, not shady) past history with 1 abandoned IPO of dubious merit (1 trillion isk) 2) No security 3) Large amount of Isk requested for first launch Those three in and of themselves are going to put off X amount of potential investors even with an audit.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 17:33:00 - [48] Originally by: Viktor Raybach Edited by: Viktor Raybach on 28/04/2009 17:23:54 Originally by: HawkBlade Originally by: Viktor Raybach As I said, it's a minor point, but it's inconsistent. If this is as bad as the critique of this IPO is going to get, Ji's got this one in the bag even without an audit. (I.e. Tempest in a teapot it seems) 1) Contentious (note contentious, not shady) past history with 1 abandoned IPO of dubious merit (1 trillion isk) 2) No security 3) Large amount of Isk requested for first launch Those three in and of themselves are going to put off X amount of potential investors even with an audit. 1: It wasnt 1 trillion isk, it was 20B tops.. But a good thing i never launched, because i had underestimated the move from millions to billions, and that ballgame actually took me 3 months to figure out... 2: No security, nothing to argue about here, i have stated why this IPO doesnt provide any security other than a break even analysis.. 3: Its half our NAV i actually think that the shares could sell for more. Though i took an amount i knew i would be comfortable with... Anything higher and i might begin to tilt. Anything lower and i could just aswell get a bond... This is a real deal IPO, its not for short term profit, this investment is not for everyone. Its an investment in the corp, not your wallet. The ROI is just an incentive... Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.04.28 17:43:00 - [49] Well, that's some impressive quanitity of text I've just had to read through! It's fairly obvious that you have put some time and effort into this, which is in stark contrast with the rubbish we have been bombarded with in MD recently. Well done! However... 24.5 billion? Handed over to you and your corpmates? For an estimated 7% return? With no real security? No way, no how. That's far too much to hand over to a publicly untested entity no matter how decent and upstanding they may appear to be in forums and in-game channels. I can understand your ASTOCK investors will invest because they know you better than I do and because they have made their call based on the trust you have built up with them. But for me and other potential BSTOCK investors, it would be simply stupid for us to hand over that much isk to you without security while preserving any good expectations of seeing it back again. In my opinion there simply has to be more security on this. That said, I think there is potential here and with a little more work this could be made to fly. I'll be back when I've had more time to think and re-read.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 17:48:00 - [50] Originally by: Bad Bobby Well, that's some impressive quanitity of text I've just had to read through! It's fairly obvious that you have put some time and effort into this, which is in stark contrast with the rubbish we have been bombarded with in MD recently. Well done! However... 24.5 billion? Handed over to you and your corpmates? For an estimated 7% return? With no real security? No way, no how. That's far too much to hand over to a publicly untested entity no matter how decent and upstanding they may appear to be in forums and in-game channels. I can understand your ASTOCK investors will invest because they know you better than I do and because they have made their call based on the trust you have built up with them. But for me and other potential BSTOCK investors, it would be simply stupid for us to hand over that much isk to you without security while preserving any good expectations of seeing it back again. In my opinion there simply has to be more security on this. That said, I think there is potential here and with a little more work this could be made to fly. I'll be back when I've had more time to think and re-read. Thank you very much for your input bobby. I can see the cause of your concern, and i know that i am asking for alot considering this is my first real public offer. All ASTOCK shares was reserved because of the lobby work ive done before hand i agree here. And no that doesnt mean squat ** to you, i can understand that. Actually just for as general information the interest in this has been huge, way over what i expected, and i did expect the IPO to fill but not this fast. If i wanted to i could have sold 25% of the BSTOCK already, because quite frankly there was just to little ASTOCK involved in this. Thats my mistake however. If you could somehow come with an idea on how i could increase security without limiting myself on my margin i would be very open to that. thanks for contributing to this thread... Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE** is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
PublicRelations Kwint Lothian Quay Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 18:06:00 - [51] It's always nice to see an offering that has had some serious thought and time put into writing it up, especially these days. However, I'm am wary of putting 24.5B of unsecured ISK into the hands of an untested man. That is a very large number to start with (far larger than I or anyone of the other regulars started with to give a measure of perspective) and as such I am quite hesitant to invest. Since you're relying on trading, surely this number could be cut down a bit in the beginning. With regular audits tracking your progress -something I'm a fan of for all business, not just yours- it would be clear that you are indeed running a legitimate business and perhaps you could issue additional shares monthly until you have 24.5B and beyond but as a first venture, this seems inordinately high. When dealing with something so ambiguous yet readily verifiable as trading, I think an audit ought always to be called for and I will certainly do so now. If Shar produces a nice detailed report showing tons of complex and lucrative trading then it would go a long way towards convincing me that you can be entrusted with 24.5B but failing that we are left with a string of failed IPO attempts and your posting history which at a glance seems more fluff than substance. I expect I'll be reserving further comment until that audit comes through, then we can really debate this. Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.04.28 18:07:00 - [52] Originally by: Ji Sama Actually just for as general information the interest in this has been huge, way over what i expected, and i did expect the IPO to fill but not this fast. If i wanted to i could have sold 25% of the BSTOCK already, because quite frankly there was just to little ASTOCK involved in this. Thats my mistake however. Then you are a superb lobbyist with a good handle on PR and/or have many friends willing to take a chance on you. This does not make the investment sound by any measure usually applied in MD. The total lack of any worthwhile investment oppertunities over recent months is no doubt contributing to this, just as if you had dangled a bag of crack in front of a cold turkeyed addict's nose. But desperation is no excuse for throwing out the rulebook. Originally by: Ji Sama If you could somehow come with an idea on how i could increase security without limiting myself on my margin i would be very open to that. Now we are talking. Let's look at this: POS currently set up for R&D 5B ISK Tier 1 fleet 2.14B Tier 2 fleet 1.01B Faction fleet 2.58B Tier 1, Meta 3-4, Tier 2 and faction modules 4.19B Misc. solid assets; minerals, salvage, ice and trade goods etc. 3B+ Blueprint copies and originals 2B+ Market sell-order 8B+ Market buy-order 2B+ Contracts 2B+ Liquid Capital 1.5B Investments 13.6B Ordered assets under construction 3.6B I've underlined 20.6b of assets that may have potential for use as collateral without impacting your margins. Let's talk about those.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 18:12:00 - [53] Edited by: Ji Sama on 28/04/2009 18:12:38 Originally by: Bad Bobby Originally by: Ji Sama Actually just for as general information the interest in this has been huge, way over what i expected, and i did expect the IPO to fill but not this fast. If i wanted to i could have sold 25% of the BSTOCK already, because quite frankly there was just to little ASTOCK involved in this. Thats my mistake however. Then you are a superb lobbyist with a good handle on PR and/or have many friends willing to take a chance on you. This does not make the investment sound by any measure usually applied in MD. The total lack of any worthwhile investment oppertunities over recent months is no doubt contributing to this, just as if you had dangled a bag of crack in front of a cold turkeyed addict's nose. But desperation is no excuse for throwing out the rulebook. Originally by: Ji Sama If you could somehow come with an idea on how i could increase security without limiting myself on my margin i would be very open to that. Now we are talking. Let's look at this: POS currently set up for R&D 5B ISK Tier 1 fleet 2.14B Tier 2 fleet 1.01B Faction fleet 2.58B Tier 1, Meta 3-4, Tier 2 and faction modules 4.19B Misc. solid assets; minerals, salvage, ice and trade goods etc. 3B+ Blueprint copies and originals 2B+ Market sell-order 8B+ Market buy-order 2B+ Contracts 2B+ Liquid Capital 1.5B Investments 13.6B Ordered assets under construction 3.6B I've underlined 20.6b of assets that may have potential for use as collateral without impacting your margins. Let's talk about those. rgr. the investment is currently in bond form spread out on 4 investments loans (one i would describe as high risk and would consider that as a bigger liability than the rest! (it is however only a very small loan) i dont see how i can use that as security... the blueprints could be used as security np there, since we are doing limited research atm, we arent using most (about 99% of the bpo's and bpc's) the pos i dont see how you could secure, if you by secure mean take down... ps: i wasnt saying that my lobbying should be a sign of a legit investment, i was only saying that i didnt make enough :D EDIT: the faction fleet could in theory be liquidated, since its only bling bling, and expensive bling bling at that... Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.04.28 18:12:00 - [54] The POS is number 1 on the security list. It would be pretty trivial to move this to a holdings corporation and have TMP join in an alliance so that access could still be had and operations continue. There is the obvious small details of tearing down/putting up/refuel but its pretty small. The prints would be the next best option, but then you get into issues of how to secure them and still maintain some type of corporation since to build off them, the build alt would have to be in the holding corporation unless things were run off a copy system. Copies could work depending on your consumption amounts. I know there are a number of people here that could do the former, and quite a bit that could assist with the latter.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 18:16:00 - [55] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria The POS is number 1 on the security list. It would be pretty trivial to move this to a holdings corporation and have TMP join in an alliance so that access could still be had and operations continue. There is the obvious small details of tearing down/putting up/refuel but its pretty small. The prints would be the next best option, but then you get into issues of how to secure them and still maintain some type of corporation since to build off them, the build alt would have to be in the holding corporation unless things were run off a copy system. Copies could work depending on your consumption amounts. I know there are a number of people here that could do the former, and quite a bit that could assist with the latter. i just wanna be clear that we are talking a very big pos here... its not something you just take down... since we are only starting to move into the bpo / construction business, alot of this could be secured... imo... i would be thankful for any pointers as who could help with this. though i must say atm. taking the pos down seems out of the question.. it would take some 24 hours i think to offline and unanchor it all! Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.04.28 18:22:00 - [56] I have to log off now, so I'll pick this up tommorrow. But I'll say that Kazzac has it right with the POS and BPOs. Those could easily be secured with myself or Kazuo or one of many other trusted parties. If the principle is acceptable to you then we can get into the details next. The investments could be transferred over to a trusted third party who will then send back any dividends/interest to you. But obviously this depends on the investments in question. Once again, if the principle is acceptable to you then we can discuss the details.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 18:22:00 - [57] i have a problem though, (it doesnt have to be a problem) if i use the pos and the bpo's + the returned investments as security. i would effectively neuter my R&D plan imo.. And since that has an estimated 10-15% of the invesment this ipo brings in, this could in theory be removed, but this changes to much of the overall plan imo. nothing i couldnt handle, but i still think that the whole IPO should be reviewed then.. i dont know, im just not comfortable with making huge changes in the BP after the offer has started, and investments has been reserved. dunno, im in two minds here... (im thinking out loud here, i have no current plan to divert from the BP, but i am more than open to suggestions on how to increase security without limiting my potential profit.) Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.04.28 18:23:00 - [58] Originally by: Ji Sama i just wanna be clear that we are talking a very big pos here... its not something you just take down... since we are only starting to move into the bpo / construction business, alot of this could be secured... imo... i would be thankful for any pointers as who could help with this. though i must say atm. taking the pos down seems out of the question.. it would take some 24 hours i think to offline and unanchor it all! EDIT: ok 24 hours is a bit over the top, but it has alot of anchored offline weapon systems etc... hardeners! etc. You don't necessarily have to take that POS down immediately. Funds are secured and used to purchase the exact same items and then powered up at the same time while you tear the first one down. TMP is then left to liquidate the first POS at their leisure. The purchase of the second POS would be handled by the previous mentioned holding corp. A somewhat smaller model of how this works in operation is a public investment handled by Bad Bobby by which he secured a capital ship from the OP, funds from the investors, distributed funds to the OP, and then held the carrier until bond completion. Only this in instance, the POS would be placed up and running. Just for sh*ts and giggles, if you could securitize the POS and prints, you've easily gotten almost to 50% security. Add in the bonds and you're damn near at 100%. With that much security you might even be able to negotiate a lower public rate
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.28 18:24:00 - [59] Originally by: Bad Bobby I have to log off now, so I'll pick this up tommorrow. But I'll say that Kazzac has it right with the POS and BPOs. Those could easily be secured with myself or Kazuo or one of many other trusted parties. If the principle is acceptable to you then we can get into the details next. The investments could be transferred over to a trusted third party who will then send back any dividends/interest to you. But obviously this depends on the investments in question. Once again, if the principle is acceptable to you then we can discuss the details. i agree on the principle, we can discuss terms and details later, we have plenty of time imo. i am really glad you decided to contribute to this ! its just a big pos, but perhaps its feels this way because i set it up solo... :P in a badger :p Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Bad Bobby Ugly Toys Zzz	Posted - 2009.04.28 18:25:00 - [60] Originally by: Ji Sama Edited by: Ji Sama on 28/04/2009 18:16:19 Originally by: Kazzac Elentria The POS is number 1 on the security list. It would be pretty trivial to move this to a holdings corporation and have TMP join in an alliance so that access could still be had and operations continue. There is the obvious small details of tearing down/putting up/refuel but its pretty small. The prints would be the next best option, but then you get into issues of how to secure them and still maintain some type of corporation since to build off them, the build alt would have to be in the holding corporation unless things were run off a copy system. Copies could work depending on your consumption amounts. I know there are a number of people here that could do the former, and quite a bit that could assist with the latter. i just wanna be clear that we are talking a very big pos here... its not something you just take down... since we are only starting to move into the bpo / construction business, alot of this could be secured... imo... i would be thankful for any pointers as who could help with this. though i must say atm. taking the pos down seems out of the question.. it would take some 24 hours i think to offline and unanchor it all! EDIT: ok 24 hours is a bit over the top, but it has alot of anchored offline weapon systems etc... hardeners! etc. Believe me, I have put up and taken down more POSes than you can possibly imagine. I understand what is involved in that, both with and without heavy firepower assistance.

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