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General thoughts from a returning player *Long Read*

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Derus Grobb Selectus Pravus Lupus	Posted - 2009.05.01 00:05:00 - [31] Ugh, I decided to read it :( This is what you seem to be saying 1) CCP listens too much to whiners 2) CCP should impose some sort of morality to the game to stop all the bad guys 3) CCP should stop listening to carebears I don't get how 1, 2 and 3 go together? ---
annoing Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2009.05.01 00:12:00 - [32] Originally by: Katsuoto where players where not filled with so much hate and enjoyment in watching others get upset. Once, the average age of Eve players was late 20's ... now its full of pre-pubescent teens and goons. And there lies your problem - kids and goons (in many cases they're both the same people). Mature corps with mature players tend to have a 'no smack in local' policy. Corps created by the kids and stocked with kids tend to be the ones full of smack and 'carebear tears' comments etc. Ask to use the Goats Pleasure Palace when you visit the Fanfest this year
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2009.05.01 00:30:00 - [33] Originally by: Derus Grobb Ugh, I decided to read it :( This is what you seem to be saying 1) CCP listens too much to whiners 2) CCP should impose some sort of morality to the game to stop all the bad guys 3) CCP should stop listening to carebears I don't get how 1, 2 and 3 go together? Yeah, I was just going to comment on the fact that the OP is one confused 20-year old. Another good one in the OP's tirade is lamenting the lack of 'player level matching' for combat encounters. He just doesn't understand the game he's trying to 'save'. ...
Emperor D'Hoffryn EXTERMINATUS. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2009.05.01 01:10:00 - [34] Originally by: Razin Originally by: Derus Grobb Ugh, I decided to read it :( This is what you seem to be saying 1) CCP listens too much to whiners 2) CCP should impose some sort of morality to the game to stop all the bad guys 3) CCP should stop listening to carebears I don't get how 1, 2 and 3 go together? Yeah, I was just going to comment on the fact that the OP is one confused 20-year old. Another good one in the OP's tirade is lamenting the lack of 'player level matching' for combat encounters. He just doesn't understand the game he's trying to 'save'. Actually, A way to find roughly equaled skilled players (in game skills, that is) might be a nice feature for newer players looking to cut their teeth. I've taken numerous younger players under my wing over my 4+ years in EVE....and the hardest hurdle for them to overcome in learning to pvp is the feeling, however accurate or relevant, that they are at a general disadvantage.....a disadvantage they can see by checking employment histories on characters they fight and see that everyone they come across has been in game longer. Of course, such a system would have to be voluntary, un-intrusive...non lvl based (no lvl 60 mages please) thing you join...something like FW only call it player tournie or something, with different weight classes based on ship types as well as skill point amounts. Then you enable other player to bet on the outcome.....and all SORTS of fun crops up. Originally by: CCP Whisper No it is not an official statement. Not everything surrounded by blue bars is an official statement which can be quoted as fact until the end of time. Deal with it.
ThaDollaGenerale The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.05.01 01:17:00 - [35] Blah Blah Blah, I'm old. I'm turning on my old-tank of telling you whippersnappers that you're not honorable. YOU. HAVE. NO. E-HONOR. Eve is a place where you can do whatever you want. It's always been that way, you're the one who's changed.
Bo'Tox Amarr	Posted - 2009.05.01 02:13:00 - [36] replying in Yet Another Post that flames them flamers and flames CCP.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.05.01 05:52:00 - [37] Originally by: Katsuoto Originally by: TimMc haha I love the ***** community. I expect many responses like "TLDR" and "Awww did someone get scammed?". I joined eve after reading about huge scams and the dev's doing nothing. Its awesome. Ladies and Gentlemen, here is my prime example. You sir, are a disgrace to the gaming community. <3 Though there are far worse out there. Oh my. Well here's a thing. I also joined EvE after I heard about the huge eve bank scam in 06. Now funnily enough, in game I dont lie, cheat, spy, scam, "grief" noobs, or (beyond the occasional scout-alt, and even that not so much any more) metagame. Now and then I will pirate a little. But. The reason I play EvE is that I have the freedom** to do these things. I am furiously opposed to the whinebears who constantly try to "reform" (ie: ban) the possibility of these actions, because they want to make my choice irrelevant. With no talk of compensating me for the opportunities lost, I might add.
Tyslas	Posted - 2009.05.01 07:42:00 - [38] Originally by: ThaDollaGenerale Eve is a place where you can do whatever you want. That's kind of the point he's making. Give people freedom and anonymity and look how they behave.
Crimzin Amarr	Posted - 2009.05.01 08:01:00 - [39] Eve is no different from my neighborhood tbh. But it really does surprise me how gullible the capitalist world is turning people. In Other Words... This is how it is people, eve is just people being people and anyone that thinks the world is just awesome and no one would do anything like that to you... god help you son. Safe Space Not So Safe
Teilchen	Posted - 2009.05.01 08:07:00 - [40] He only looks at the bad examples though. In my Newbiecorp (Caldary SWAarta) there were Alts just created to help around noobs. While it was a little bit frustrating to hear them talk about their stuff on the mains it wsa really helpfull to get alot of questions answered. And they justed sit there and helped, and all they got ist a good feel. I would like to say thank you. I helped around another noob with dagan, I was barely able to solo him with my cruiser and he came there with a frig... Yeah, usual evesenses tell: Your in a gang, 1000 bad things could happen. But they didnt ;) And we BOTH will remember. I found a good Corp, and I didnt join just the first corp that asked me. My corp has a Trialtime to protect against spys and thiefs, but overall there is always someone that helps you out. And we have a good time on TS ;) So yeah, im new, I think eve is fun, it has some issues, but I dont think the OP raised any of them. He just wants to take the evenes out of eve. Leave eve the cold harsh world that it is, makes finding nice people so much more delightfull. And there are people that dont play eve fascinated by stories of the BOB incident or the Bankscam. in short: eve is not dying, its fine and new people have fun joining the game.^^

Panzram GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.05.01 08:25:00 - [41] I too am very disturbed by the lack of honour and sense of fairness in this new generation of pod pilots. The blobing, piracy, scamming and local spam really are confounding. Perhaps we can develop a system where the players can only fight each other under limited circumstances and the majority of the game is spent in group PvE for high end modules. I'd call these "raids", and we'd need some sort of point system based on attendance to assign who got these items. We would also need some sort of way for the stuff to be visible on your ship so others would know how "uber" you are at a glance. Oh and levels, this game is sorely lacking in levels. And dragons.
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.05.01 08:28:00 - [42] OP: You start out by saying that CCP is ruining their own game, then you talk about bad moral and ethics among the player base as being the cause. That people behave like dorks on the Internet is certainly not CCPs fault. And personally I do not see that much "bad mouthing" and harassment, but I have perhaps grown immune to it. I do not share your desires for customizable graphical options to decorate your ship. I am quite aware that those kind of things would increase the load on the servers dramatically, and that is highly undesirable for all. In basic, are graphics fluff which adds nothing to actual gameplay. Good graphics are only needed to create immersion, but should never get higher priority than game performance. In short, EVE is not dying and CCP has a much broader perspectives than most people who posts on these forums. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.05.01 09:18:00 - [43] Originally by: Tyslas Originally by: ThaDollaGenerale Eve is a place where you can do whatever you want. That's kind of the point he's making. Give people freedom and anonymity and look how they behave. Too bad, that's the price of freedom: when you let people say or do whatever they want, some of them will choose to say or do things you don't like. In return, you get to say or do things they don't like.
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2009.05.01 09:47:00 - [44] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Tyslas Originally by: ThaDollaGenerale Eve is a place where you can do whatever you want. That's kind of the point he's making. Give people freedom and anonymity and look how they behave. Too bad, that's the price of freedom: when you let people say or do whatever they want, some of them will choose to say or do things you don't like. In return, you get to say or do things they don't like. Most people, I've found, only like the idea of 'freedom' when it equates to them being able to decide what everyone else can and cannot do. Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.05.01 09:57:00 - [45] Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Most people, I've found, only like the idea of 'freedom' when it equates to them being able to decide what everyone else can and cannot do. Most people don't like freedom nearly as much as they think (or say) they do. What they actually like is irresponsibility, which seems a bit like freedom at first but is actually almost the complete opposite. In a dictatorship, only 1 man can be "free", because there is no-one to hold him accountable for his actions. What most people want when they talk about freedom is for everyone (or at least everyone they like) to get to be a dictator, which is of course oxymoronic. Real freedom is scary and difficult and hard work and you don't get to blame anyone else but yourself when things go bad. That's why most people react in a very negative way when confronted with the prospect of it.
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance Blackguard Coalition	Posted - 2009.05.01 10:10:00 - [46] Originally by: Katsuoto Originally by: TimMc haha I love the ******* community. I expect many responses like "TLDR" and "Awww did someone get scammed?". I joined eve after reading about huge scams and the dev's doing nothing. Its awesome. Ladies and Gentlemen, here is my prime example. You sir, are a disgrace to the gaming community. <3 Though there are far worse out there. A disgrace? haha you don't know me. I may enjoy being in a game where everyone is at eachothers throat, but I have never scammed anyone or stolen from my corp. Having a place where anything goes lets the honourable people stand out and above; and while I do attempt to have e-honour, I do love reading about the horrible things people do to eachother. Eve is a place where there are constant car crashes to watch.
Schenke Arcaid Caldari Dreams of Desolation Magnum Opus.	Posted - 2009.05.01 10:16:00 - [47] I am a returning player to Eve. Used to play between 2004 -2005 so have had a resonably longish break. I admit that upon my return there has been a lot of changes, some for the good and some for the worse BUT it is still Eve. Yes there are always going to be scammers (or prats as they're better known to me) but that is their choice. If i'm honest these scammers a playing Eve their way and enjoying it. Yes the majority may not agree with it, but who are we to dictate? That is the overall point as well Eve is not governed by a dictatorship it is completely anarchic and that is the beauty of it. You make your own rules, you do your own thing and you experience it your way. How many other games give you this sort of experience. Im not slating the OP as he does have some valid points but again they are his opinions and with an MMO that caters for tens of thousands of players it will be impossible for everyone to agree with everyone. Just my 2p.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Enterprises	Posted - 2009.05.01 10:55:00 - [48] there are 2 types of people on the internet. normal people and e-fa*ts. sometimes these people are one in the same. when the game got more popular, we got more fats. -the game stopped being so community and RP centric (people were more respectful of RP back in the day, though i dont care for it). -the game started being about the endless possibilities, the unexplored and defined exploitations (of mechanics and players). I hate to say it in these words (because it isn't because* of them) but GoonSwarm really exemplifies when this community went down hill. Sure, bob flamed ascn but comparing that to what the goons introduced is like comparing a firecracker to a stick of dynamite. Sure, at their most basic level they are the same, but any idiot with common sense can see the difference. Is this for the better or the worse? Well, frankly that is a matter of personal opinion, you will find people to argue both sides. This games allure used to be the community. That is what many players of 4+years remember and were drawn to. Well, in life the only thing that is constant is constant change. The game has evolved and so must we. People started to come to the game not so much because of the nice people (though many still did) but many many more came because they heard of these awesome possibilities this game had vs the others (the ability to scam, cheat, ANYTHING was possible). You state "I really feel like CCP and the player base is killing EVE." While i understand what you are driving at, listen to your words. The player base and CCP ARE Eve. What you want to say is "I really feel like CCP and the player base is killing EVE FOR ME" If you cannot find any way to reconcile the game of yesteryear with what it is today then don't let it bother you, find a new game. But everything changes with time and realize while you and others feel the way you do, others may feel exactly the opposite (the game is BETTER and more EXCITING now than then). I'm not saying i don't agree with you, because a part of me does. But the other half of me likes what it has become and is very interested in where it is going. One thing i can guarantee you, eve isn't dying unless CCP decides to kill it. ---------- Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy motherf***er.
EpicFailTroll	Posted - 2009.05.01 12:09:00 - [49] Eve is nowhere near dying, all the contrary rather. Do you know what mmos thrive on? They thrive on frustration. Since the game doesn't end, there has to be an endless supply of carrots. But those have to be not completely satisfying, otherwise players would quit. So you go from carrot to carrot, hoping to fulfill whatever desire. Players can find enjoyment in the process of getting said carrots, or in the frustration of not getting them. For the masochistic state of mind so prevalent in our modern western societies, the frustration is the main drive. We always hope we'll be satisfied, never are, and finally find twisted pleasure in that ambivalent drive. Eve is not a game anymore, since it doesn't comply to very basic definitions of what a game is, mainly because of the metagaming alt catastrophy (assuming different identities, other players being unaware of that fact). It's now more of a social platform devoted to Schadenfreude. Imagine a Facebook where you could insult other people at will, and have mini-games to impede their browsing experience of said community site. That's what EvE is. For aforementioned reasons, it's not dying at all. It's thriving on frustration: the kind you experience yourself, or create in others. And it's thriving good.
Ichandasil Minmatar Department of Defence	Posted - 2009.05.01 12:30:00 - [50] Originally by: Ammut -Eve isn't dying -Eve hasn't changed -CCP doesn't cater to anyone Lets face it, blobers, exploiters, scammers, and people that just want to ruin your day have been around since day 1 (they are just more annoying now). They aren't going anywhere. Having played the game since Beta I can state unequivocally that the above is true. The number of jerks, and those whining about them, hasn't changed one iota. And if you really believe the game is dying and that CCP caters to a particular group you're a ****** or you're the typical whiner with an agenda.

Overbrain	Posted - 2009.05.01 12:59:00 - [51] Hey wtf is this , eve is not dying lol. Infact , it already died. CCP was a small company and used to care about their customers at first, everything ingame was fun and every module added distinct powers to your ship . Traveling around was hard (15km warps) and stargates actualy meant something .. Those days are gone now . Once you have an established comunity / history / paying customers . THEN your company goals changes, now it is to keep the comunity paying and try to increase it . Given 90% people are whiners in hostile and hard enviourments (eve) , increasing the player base would only be possible through doing whatever that makes whiners feel at ease and safe . Cooler and more expensive ships with no real use getting pumped into the game to increase the "cool factor" are just decreasing the value of ships which once did matter. Sadly there is no way around , you can either increase your customerbase and turn the game into a regular public park paying no attention to any individual , or pay too much attention to hardcore gamers needs , create a "perfect" game and close the company after 4 months because of no profit. After all , im myself thankful to ccp that it got this far . But we are quick to forget some things here , customers getting treated like milk sheeps have the power to decide which other newer company maybe the winner next time . Just like ccp once were. I felt very secure when eve first came out , i was sure it had a future and i was very happy investing my time into it. Now i totaly worry about what is going on , players training cruise lvl V and bombers getting changed to torp lvl V with no reimbursement to players who spent their 1 month subscription just training cruise V. This is just one example. I miss the spirit ccp once had.
Ana Vyr DB - LJ Industries Vanguard.	Posted - 2009.05.01 13:41:00 - [52] I agree with the OP regarding the continued degeneration of simple manners on the internet and in gaming communities. The no-lifers that spend their time making other people miserable are a scourge. The thing I like about EvE, is that you can find those little bastages, and make them PAY for it.
Celexi	Posted - 2009.05.01 13:56:00 - [53] Originally by: Panzram I too am very disturbed by the lack of honour and sense of fairness in this new generation of pod pilots. The blobing, piracy, scamming and local spam really are confounding. Perhaps we can develop a system where the players can only fight each other under limited circumstances and the majority of the game is spent in group PvE for high end modules. I'd call these "raids", and we'd need some sort of point system based on attendance to assign who got these items. We would also need some sort of way for the stuff to be visible on your ship so others would know how "uber" you are at a glance. Oh and levels, this game is sorely lacking in levels. And dragons. You made my day
Roger Kiyosaki	Posted - 2009.05.01 14:11:00 - [54] Originally by: Katsuoto [..] Is there not a way for a new player to go up against new player of equal skill/sp? Some sort of rank matching system that can be developed to make it a bit more balanced? [..] CCP needs to LISTEN to the players.. Not just the ones *****ing about how they want things easier. [..] I agree. CCP, please ignore OP.
AkRoYeR Amarr	Posted - 2009.05.01 15:11:00 - [55] Originally by: Celexi Originally by: Panzram I too am very disturbed by the lack of honour and sense of fairness in this new generation of pod pilots. The blobing, piracy, scamming and local spam really are confounding. Perhaps we can develop a system where the players can only fight each other under limited circumstances and the majority of the game is spent in group PvE for high end modules. I'd call these "raids", and we'd need some sort of point system based on attendance to assign who got these items. We would also need some sort of way for the stuff to be visible on your ship so others would know how "uber" you are at a glance. Oh and levels, this game is sorely lacking in levels. And dragons. You made my day ditto!
Ghoest	Posted - 2009.05.01 15:28:00 - [56] EVE isnt dying but it could be improved. And I agree bubbles are bad game design that makes the universe fell less like "space" should feel. If a noob want to go explore 0.0 it should not automatic death for a newb if they decided to go in a fast frigate. As is you cant explore with even modest safety till you have covert ops ccloaks and ships. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Cutie Chaser Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2009.05.01 15:38:00 - [57] "The ability to camp a gate with a warp disrupting field... The ability to flip cans... The ability to form a blob that me and a buddy cant even compete against... That hunts us down everywhere we go when we are just trying to run missions or do some mining? Station camping (which is TOTAL BS)" tl;dr version: Me and a friend are butthurt because we can't stroll through 0.0 with just the 2 of us, there should be a rule to allow us to go out to other peoples property, because right now if we invade thier space they are mean to us. *** Thats a Templar, the amarr fighter. Its a combat drone used by carriers.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.05.01 15:47:00 - [58] ITT: Even old players don't understand ≡v≡… ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Attrezzo Pox Amarr Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.05.01 15:51:00 - [59] Reply to OP. What game have you been playing. Pirates not honouring ransoms, 0.0 neutral ganking, and general scamming have been a part of this game since beta. Honestly man if you have a tremendous problem with the way things are going make yourself a positive influence. Introduce useful topics on the forum for a start, being the whiner/complaining troll inspiration you hate is not the way to prevent said response. The game will be what it will be and I sincerely doubt CCP is putting effort into making Eve fail. Sorry but there's no sympathy for the OP. Nothing new around the solar system here. ------------------------- PoX IS Eve!!! BOOM!!!
Attrezzo Pox Amarr Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.05.01 15:53:00 - [60] Originally by: annoing Originally by: Katsuoto where players where not filled with so much hate and enjoyment in watching others get upset. Once, the average age of Eve players was late 20's ... now its full of pre-pubescent teens and goons. And there lies your problem - kids and goons (in many cases they're both the same people). Mature corps with mature players tend to have a 'no smack in local' policy. Corps created by the kids and stocked with kids tend to be the ones full of smack and 'carebear tears' comments etc. Wha? The only people I know who play eve are all 20+ lots in their 30s with kids? What game are you playing? ------------------------- PoX IS Eve!!! BOOM!!!



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