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Zed Nash
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.05.02 00:32:00 -
[1]
Was scanned out today, had the Ship's Crew stolen from the Damaged Heron in WC after the mission was marked as complete (happens when you pop the intial agro spawn).
File a petition, receive a response basically saying "Thanks", and that's it.
Since the mission is marked as complete, it won't respawn after DT. I'm stuck either buying the Ship's Crew off the escrow market, which is rewarding the thieves who stole them, or turning down the mission for a nice little standings hit.
Have another petition filed, but after the cosmic display of ineptitude already by the GMs, I'm not holding my breath. Been waiting for about 5 hours now, and no response. Can't accept another mission, so I'm spinning my ship in hangar.
Came back for Apocrypha, remembering why I left in the first place (bad developement, crappy customer service, et al). Incompetence shouldn't be rewarded............
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Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.02 00:34:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Intense Thinker on 02/05/2009 00:35:29 Welcome to Eve, where you can't escape PvP no matter where you go
*Edit: 1st!
**Edit: ibtl for discussing moderation
***Edit: *points at OP* BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Pomp FTW!!! |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.05.02 00:35:00 -
[3]
Umm... that's sadly "working as intended". 90+% chance you WILL have to either buy it from contracts or take the standings hit.
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Camaria
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.02 00:38:00 -
[4]
Dear OP, what part of "this is a pvp game" did you not get???
Me, I'm having the time of my life (or rather my main is) with recon part 3 just tanking and looting in dodixie
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Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.05.02 00:38:00 -
[5]
Aliastra. Isn't that an NPC corporation?
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
Zed Nash
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.05.02 00:38:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Intense Thinker Welcome to Eve, where you can't escape PvP no matter where you go
You're neither clever, nor very smart.
PvP, no problem..............
Hiding behind game mechanics to grief, problem.
If he'd have been flagged when he took the objective, two volleys would have sent him back to station in a pod. The fact that the mechanics of the game didn't allow me to retaliate at all, and am forced to just sit there and take it, that's just bad development.
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Lt Shard
United Trade Coalition
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Posted - 2009.05.02 00:43:00 -
[7]
itt: carebears _________________________
Yes, I know the Titan is small in my sig. |
Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.02 00:43:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Zed Nash
You're neither clever, nor very smart.
And you have a redundant redundancy issue of redundancy
And no one is hiding, when they took the cargo you were free to pop them and take it back... your choice to grab your ankles and take it was your own fault and can I have your stuff?
Pomp FTW!!! |
Sjobba
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Posted - 2009.05.02 00:45:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Zed Nash
Originally by: Intense Thinker Welcome to Eve, where you can't escape PvP no matter where you go
You're neither clever, nor very smart.
PvP, no problem..............
Hiding behind game mechanics to grief, problem.
If he'd have been flagged when he took the objective, two volleys would have sent him back to station in a pod. The fact that the mechanics of the game didn't allow me to retaliate at all, and am forced to just sit there and take it, that's just bad development.
I would have thought taking from the damaged heron would have flagged him. If it didn't, then you do have grounds for reimbursement. (By the way, you might have mentioned this in the OP to save yourself the flaming.)
However, as the above posts have said (somewhat crudely, admittedly), having things stolen is well withing the game mechanics, and working as intended.
And in my experience, the EVE customer service is far greater than that for most other games. Sure, it's not perfect, but what is?
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Zed Nash
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.05.02 00:46:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Intense Thinker
Originally by: Zed Nash
You're neither clever, nor very smart.
And you have a redundant redundancy issue of redundancy
And no one is hiding, when they took the cargo you were free to pop them and take it back... your choice to grab your ankles and take it was your own fault and can I have your stuff?
Again, you're displaying a lack of intelligence.......
Yeah, I could fire on an unflagged ship, and immediately have Concord on me.
Choice was made for me
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Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.05.02 00:48:00 -
[11]
There's some confusion here:
First, griefing in EvE means the intentional abuse of a specific player for out of game reasons (paraphrased). It can only be proven through repeated, directed attacks. Someone stealing specifically YOUR loot in several missions, for instance, would be a case of griefing. A single event is not.
Secondly, you don't have to hide behind the game mechanics in EvE to abuse/interrupt other players, unlike other games. CCP specifically designed game mechanics AROUND abuse, to allow it.
You DO have to hide behind game mechanics in order to AVOID competition. Such as, I don't know, staying in an NPC corporation in order to avoid becoming legitimate war targets.
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.05.02 00:48:00 -
[12]
Well, actually, he's slightly more than half-right. The target is a NPC ship that's actually a container structure that unlocks when you kill all initial stage aggro ships. ANYBODY can take the mission objective since the "container" is not your property.
The SMART move on his part would have been to NOT shoot the initial aggro ships and wait for the other guy to get bored... or to sit right next to it (the ship/container) and wait until the other guy decides to start shooting the NPCs to unlock the container, so you can grab the objective item first. But no, he decides to kill the initial aggro ships while NOT in container-grab-range, so the other guy swoops in and picks it up instead. And he refuses to pay the "ransom" out of... spite ?
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
5pinDizzy
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Posted - 2009.05.02 00:48:00 -
[13]
Wahahahahahahahha.
OP : Your tears are delicious.
if you disagree with me then you should probably post a response and stop reading my signature. |
FOl2TY8
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.05.02 00:49:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Zed Nash
Again, you're displaying a lack of intelligence.......
Yeah, I could fire on an unflagged ship, and immediately have Concord on me.
Choice was made for me
When someone steals from your wreck you get to shooty shooty. If they were not flashy to you than you are either misunderstanding the situation (likey) or the mechanics bugged out on you (unlikely). ---------- This post brought to you by the worst PVP'er in Eve |
Zed Nash
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.05.02 00:53:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon You DO have to hide behind game mechanics in order to AVOID competition. Such as, I don't know, staying in an NPC corporation in order to avoid becoming legitimate war targets.
Off topic, but I'll bite..............
I have no problem with fighting, I spent years in 0.0 doing the Alliance thing. In case you haven't read, I left and just came back for Apocrypha, and found myself in a NPC corp when I came back.
No one's hiding, gettin my space legs back while I determine if the game's improved enough to stay back. Again, a decision is probably going to be made for me...........
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Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.02 00:55:00 -
[16]
Can I still have your stuff?
Pomp FTW!!! |
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.05.02 00:56:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Intense Thinker Can I still have your stuff?
Decision made. You now have a benefactor for you will
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.05.02 00:57:00 -
[18]
Yeah, this particular mission does have a rather nasty loophole in it which gives a rather high chance for the intruder to do "his thing" without you getting a chance to retaliate. Sadly, you COULD have avoided the bad consequences if you would have been slightly more paranoid.
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Zed Nash
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.05.02 00:58:00 -
[19]
Originally by: FOl2TY8 When someone steals from your wreck you get to shooty shooty. If they were not flashy to you than you are either misunderstanding the situation (likey) or the mechanics bugged out on you (unlikely).
You're not reading the posts, you have no idea what you're talking about.
It's not a wreck, he didn't flag, and I had no option to "shooty shooty"
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Sjobba
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Posted - 2009.05.02 01:02:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Zed Nash
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon You DO have to hide behind game mechanics in order to AVOID competition. Such as, I don't know, staying in an NPC corporation in order to avoid becoming legitimate war targets.
Off topic, but I'll bite..............
I have no problem with fighting, I spent years in 0.0 doing the Alliance thing. In case you haven't read, I left and just came back for Apocrypha, and found myself in a NPC corp when I came back.
No one's hiding, gettin my space legs back while I determine if the game's improved enough to stay back. Again, a decision is probably going to be made for me...........
To be honest, if you get this ticked of over a lost mission object, I don't really think you will enjoy EVE much... It's a cold, harsh place by design. If you want a fair environment to play in... this ain't it.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.05.02 01:08:00 -
[21]
Anybody who never did WC and can't even be bothered to read my longer post above can just STFU right now while they do either one of those things. THEN come back and talk again.
Is the OP totally right ? NO. There was something he could have done, and as such, he will probably (I said PROBABLY, as opposed to surely/certainly) not get reimbursed nor his mission reset.
Is the OP totally wrong ? NO. He couldn't shoot the offender, and that's due to how the mission is set up. The mission should be changed so that the mission objective is flagged as property of the mission-taker, so he can shoot back if somebody steals it, as is the case in just about every other mission.
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Jinx Barker
Caldari GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2009.05.02 01:18:00 -
[22]
I am sorry guys, with all due respect to experts, and PVP - no one is knocking a PVP or anything.
But, and this is important: on a number of occasions GMs have stated that STEALING MISSION CRITICAL ITEMS from a player can be viewed as harassment. You can loot their wrecks, salvage them, and so forth - but not steal MISSION CRITICAL item with the sole purpose of griefing a player.
Escalate the petition.
Good luck.
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.02 01:23:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Intense Thinker on 02/05/2009 01:24:07 I want to taste Zed's tears... I bet they taste like honey
*Edit: And harassment is only when the same person does it repeatedly to the same person
Pomp FTW!!! |
Jinx Barker
Caldari GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2009.05.02 01:39:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Jinx Barker on 02/05/2009 01:40:16
Originally by: Intense Thinker
I want to taste Zed's tears... I bet they taste like honey
*Edit: And harassment is only when the same person does it repeatedly to the same person
Originally by: Rules of Conduct
You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. his includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world.
You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP
I am all for tears, killing, stealing, and cheating (other players) if that is the style of play one chooses. However, there is a limit to what one can and can not do. I have seen GMs reissue missions to players who lost "mission critical" items to other players. And I have seen GMs reprimand players for taking "mission critical" items. Most of the time, and it is a common knowledge - mission critical items are worthless to anyone other than a missioning player. As such, removing of those items from the mission by anyone but the missioning player was seen as harassment. Because the removal of said items was done with a specific purpose to make the player fail at the mission, and nothing else.
One of the reasons CCP made a change in missions where certain "mission critical" items would not spawn till rats were cleared or killed was to try and avoid what the OP has described.
If we exercise common sense, this should be pretty clear.
Whatever one's style of play may be, there has to be a degree of respect for others. I know, difficult to imagine in EVE. But, was it Oveur who said: "Be nice, while you butcher each other."
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.05.02 01:42:00 -
[25]
Used to be pretty popular to steal the item and ransom it back to the runner.
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
Jinx Barker
Caldari GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2009.05.02 01:43:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon Used to be pretty popular to steal the item and ransom it back to the runner.
Guess why it changed, because for a while GMs really cracked down on it... and all forums were filled with:
1) GM gave me a warning for taking mission loot of another player... whaaaaa!!!! 2) YAY CCP, finally I am not getting griefed!!!
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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Jhagiti Tyran
Mortis Angelus
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Posted - 2009.05.02 01:45:00 -
[27]
The thing people seem to be missing is that shooting the guy who looted the stuff may not have helped his situation anyway because it could have destroyed the mission critical item when the ship exploded. -
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Jinx Barker
Caldari GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2009.05.02 01:56:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran The thing people seem to be missing is that shooting the guy who looted the stuff may not have helped his situation anyway because it could have destroyed the mission critical item when the ship exploded.
Mission critical item in this case is subject to a particular loophole. It is in a Heron? And the Heron model does not belong to the player, it is just has a mission item inside. So, if he shot at the guy, CONCORD would have gotten involved since the player who stole the mission critical item was not flagged to the mission runner.
This is pretty weird setup, as far as I can tell, and I have not run missions in a while, this is the only mission that is open to such a loophole, well with the exception of Duo Of Death, where I suppose a griefer might want to kill the BSs and loot mission critical package from the wreck.
Anyway, looting mission runners, killing them, and baiting them into agro is OK. But taking mission critical stuff from them is not, because all it does is prevent them from completing the mission, thus it is detrimental to their enjoyment of the game, and as such falls under category of harassment.
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.02 02:01:00 -
[29]
"I'm stuck either buying the Ship's Crew off the escrow market, which is rewarding the thieves who stole them"
they not harassing, they offering to give it back. That's business, not griefing
Pomp FTW!!! |
Sjobba
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Posted - 2009.05.02 02:05:00 -
[30]
Maybe the solution would be to simply replace all "item pickup" objectives with "scout location" objectives. (By which I mean: "Get withing x km from this object").
Thieves could still always steal all your loot, ninjas could still always take the salvage, griefers could still always try to bait you... but mission runners could then always complete their missions.
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