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The unfaithful	Posted - 2009.05.07 16:16:00 - [1] Top of the day to ya, I am slowly but surely training up for chimera but I am being mocked by my corp and have doubts myself if I made the correct choice. Granted that the minmatar carrier is probably the best one out there for its role but I am struggeling to see the advantages of Caldari carrier and caldari ships in general. I mean... it looks awesome but thats pretty much it. Everyone supports armor tank and shield tank is treated as a second class citizen. Could you give me some tips for some useful role to do as a Chimera pilot? Mabye caldari ships in general?
Distorted Perception	Posted - 2009.05.07 16:27:00 - [2] Expect to get shot and killed before your armor tanking buddies. It's not a problem with the chimera hull but with the widespread use of armor tanked carriers. Not much that can be done about it.
eXtas Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.05.07 16:34:00 - [3] armortank it :) neuts, shield xfer, cap xfer point, cap rechargers, sensorbooster, eccm dcu, 2x eanm, cap rep probobly tanks beter then shieldtanked in a RR gang :P
Bronson Hughes ADVANCED Combat and Engineering	Posted - 2009.05.07 16:35:00 - [4] You people have no idea how to fly a Chimera. Chimera is fine, it's the Thanatos (and to a lesser extent the Nidhogger) that are gimped. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
The unfaithful	Posted - 2009.05.07 16:36:00 - [5] Originally by: Bronson Hughes You people have no idea how to fly a Chimera. Chimera is fine, it's the Thanatos (and to a lesser extent the Nidhogger) that are gimped. You might want to expand on that?
Ecky X SniggWaffe	Posted - 2009.05.07 16:38:00 - [6] Depends on who you fly with. The shield tanked minority in your corp will appreciate you, but don't expect remote reps in 9/10 gangs.
arbiter reborn	Posted - 2009.05.07 16:40:00 - [7] thanatos is the worst armopr carrier why the **** would anyone want a damage bonus, nidhoggurs and archons all the way , the only reson the caldari one looses out is shield, if you base your gangs around shields and use only chimeras there sick
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.05.07 16:47:00 - [8] Chimera is the best carrier, your corpmates are idiots. -----------
Mal Plox The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2009.05.07 16:52:00 - [9] Chimera is a fine carrier, just that in a 0.0 spidertank situations we rely on armor, not shields, and you'll be at a deadly disadvantage. Thanatos is the most commonly used 0.0 carrier because of it's bigger cargo space and bigger drone bay, and the fact that you're next step is Nyx... though few ever make it to that next step. ---
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2009.05.07 16:53:00 - [10] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Chimera is the best carrier, your corpmates are idiots. Your comment doesnt sound intelligent either.
Bronson Hughes ADVANCED Combat and Engineering	Posted - 2009.05.07 16:57:00 - [11] Edited by: Bronson Hughes on 07/05/2009 17:00:28 Originally by: The unfaithful You might want to expand on that? 1. It has a much stronger local tank and bigger EHP buffer than a Thanny or Niddy due to its resist bonuses. 2. It has a much stronger spider tank than a Thanny and moderately better spider tank than a Niddy also due to its resist bonuses. 3. 3/4 of carriers should be carrying at least one capital remote shield rep, even if your gang is mainly armor based. 4. Thannys and Niddys usually get primaried first because they are easier to kill and have the higher potential to benefit their gang. So yeah, as per #3 if you're flying a Chimera with only remote armor rep fitted carriers you're in pretty bad shape and probably deserve to die. But if you're flying with any reasonable mixed carrier fleet you'll be fine. Originally by: Mal Plox Chimera is a fine carrier, just that in a 0.0 spidertank situations we rely on armor, not shields, and you'll be at a deadly disadvantage. One of the main strengths of the Thanny and Niddy is that they can remote rep both armor and shields equally well. Only using capital remote armor reps on them gimps them severely. Only if you are a Chimera pilot flying with a bunch of Archons should you have trouble getting remote reps and in that situation, as mentioned above, you deserve to die. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Lindsay Logan	Posted - 2009.05.07 16:59:00 - [12] Edited by: Lindsay Logan on 07/05/2009 16:58:55 Chimera is great actually. Shileds are better then armor. The reason armor is popular is that there are more armor ships then shiled ships, and both Gallente and Amarr have been FOTM (so many already got Gal or Ama BS 5). But for what Carriers do, the Chimera does it best.
Crackzilla The Shadow Order	Posted - 2009.05.07 17:01:00 - [13] Train for thanatos or archon. This will get you the bs 5 for a moros/rev. Chimera is the odd man out in an armor tanking capital world. Its got a great tank. That means you'll either be primary because the hostile fc figures you won't get seriously rr until you hit untanked armor, or the last to die. Thanatos is mostly the standard carrier for the ability to rep shield & armor + larger drone bay. Otherwise archon is better.
Enden Assulu Caldari Blood Money Inc. Blood Money Cartel	Posted - 2009.05.07 17:01:00 - [14] I would like to confirm your corpies are idiots
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance Blackguard Coalition	Posted - 2009.05.07 17:04:00 - [15] Originally by: eXtas armortank it :) neuts, shield xfer, cap xfer point, cap rechargers, sensorbooster, eccm dcu, 2x eanm, cap rep probobly tanks beter then shieldtanked in a RR gang :P What? most ******ed statement I've seen in a while. Chrimera is a good ship. It has the strongest tank of the carriers, and guessing that your friends don't have carriers, you will be using that tank alot. Can assign fighters just as much as any other carrier. Can hauler like the other carriers. Only problems is ECCM is a midslot module, or the bad lowslot module. And alot of fleets armour tank.
Mal Plox The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2009.05.07 17:06:00 - [16] Originally by: Lindsay Logan Edited by: Lindsay Logan on 07/05/2009 16:58:55 Chimera is great actually. Shileds are better then armor. The reason armor is popular is that there are more armor ships then shiled ships... The reason we rely on armor, is because it takes time to lock you. While your shield is being evaporated, and assuming your you have your tactical shield manipulation trained to 5, so no matter the amount of damage thrown your way, it will not go to your armor until your shield is gone, you have enough time to broadcast to your fleet that you are being attacked, we have enough time to lock you and start pouring armor to your ship. You'll live if we can lock you in time, you'll die if we don't. And no, keeping you constantly locked is not an option, we got things to do on the field. ---
The unfaithful	Posted - 2009.05.07 17:10:00 - [17] Sigh... I am a bit demotivated right now. Mabye I should keep my main on smaller PvP ships such as manticore and use my new caldari alt to train up gallente caps.
Zolian	Posted - 2009.05.07 17:11:00 - [18] You can't go wrong with the archon.
EFT Warrior	Posted - 2009.05.07 17:14:00 - [19] In todays "armor or die" world of EVE I feel it's best to fit a Chimera for Triage: [Chimera, Triage] Damage Control II Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II Capital Shield Booster I Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Triage Module I Capital Shield Transporter I Capital Energy Transfer Array I Large EMP Smartbomb II Heavy Energy Neutralizer II Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Not quite cap stable, but with a blue pill can tank 15k DPS for 4 minutes, up to 20k for 1 minute if you overheat. Sustains around 10k. Your shield tankers will love you, as well as dreads getting neuted. Will refill the cap of a battleship as well. Cap stable with either 1 shield transporter or 1 energy transfer running, but it cant run both or run 1 and the tank permanently. For pure remote repping I consider the Niddy superior with the archon behind that, but the Chimera is excellent for the role of triage.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.05.07 17:20:00 - [20] Here is how to properly fit the Chimera: [Chimera, CPR T2, dual rep] Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Capital Shield Booster I Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II ECCM - Gravimetric II Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Heavy Energy Neutralizer II Capital Shield Transporter I Capital Shield Transporter I Khanid Navy Large EMP Smartbomb Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I I haven't seen a good capital fight in a while, so I don't know how common ECM ships are these days. If the nerf has killed them effectively enough that they are no longer a common problem, trade the ECCM for another boost amp or an EM hardener. -----------
Lindsay Logan	Posted - 2009.05.07 17:25:00 - [21] Originally by: Mal Plox Originally by: Lindsay Logan Edited by: Lindsay Logan on 07/05/2009 16:58:55 Chimera is great actually. Shileds are better then armor. The reason armor is popular is that there are more armor ships then shiled ships... The reason we rely on armor, is because it takes time to lock you. While your shield is being evaporated, and assuming your you have your tactical shield manipulation trained to 5, so no matter the amount of damage thrown your way, it will not go to your armor until your shield is gone, you have enough time to broadcast to your fleet that you are being attacked, we have enough time to lock you and start pouring armor to your ship. You'll live if we can lock you in time, you'll die if we don't. And no, keeping you constantly locked is not an option, we got things to do on the field. Comparing the shileds of an armor tanked carrier with the resistance bonused shileds on a shiled tanked carrier is kinda fail. It will take a lot longer to chew through a Chimeras shields then a Thanatos. To OP: If you are going to abandon the Chimera, at least go for the Amarr Archon, its a lot better then the Thanatos (tho it lacks the nice shiled rep ;))
Crackzilla The Shadow Order	Posted - 2009.05.07 17:48:00 - [22] Originally by: Lindsay Logan Comparing the shileds of an armor tanked carrier with the resistance bonused shileds on a shiled tanked carrier is kinda fail. It will take a lot longer to chew through a Chimeras shields then a Thanatos. A lot longer can be just seconds. Get called primary and your local tank won't run but more than a few cycles before you're in untanked armor. You'll lose at least 25%-30% of shields before you even know you're being shot. Percentage wise this is more lost ehp for a shield tanker. An armor tanker has a better chance of getting remote repped while still in armor.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.07 17:51:00 - [23] Armor tanked carrier: They first go through your shields, during which time you cant receive help (assuming you are in a pure armor RR gang). When you get into armor (probably very fast), you will get RR and everyone got you locked by now hopefully. So your shields are gone, and they help you keep yoru armor stable Shield tanked carrier (assuming pure shield RR gang now). They first go through your shields, which means you can instantly get help from your buddies, while the thanatos needs to wait untill his shields are down. Assuming the total EHP of the thanatos and the chimera would be equal, and you would get the ****load of damage that before your friends lock you, you are allready deep into armor (not my scenario), then a chimera is deep in armor with remote shield reps on him, and the thanatos is deep into armor with remote armor reps on him. How would that make shield reps worse? (Especially since shield reps also rep in the beginning of the cycle).
Crackzilla The Shadow Order	Posted - 2009.05.07 18:22:00 - [24] Originally by: Furb Killer How would that make shield reps worse? (Especially since shield reps also rep in the beginning of the cycle). If you've got a ton of remote rep, so much that the hostiles can't break, then none of this matters. So we assume equal fleets and dps is greater than the ability to remote rep (ie mostly dread fleets with some carrier support). The thanny starts to receive reps in armor. The bleed through of local tank + rr - dps is mostly kept in tanked armor for as long as possible before finally getting into structure with a dc. The chimera will start with most shields gone. The dps and shield reps spike at different times so most of the bleed through goes into untanked armor. Eventually structure. With a cpr setup the chimera probably doesn't have a dc in which case it won't last long. You know the chimera is being repped but due to the dps you often won't see the shield go above 0%. The slavos are an issue as once shields hit 0% any dps after that does more dmg until the next shield rep hits. So its important to keep in tanked armor/shields to smooth out these bursts. In a pure shield rr gang the chimera would be viable. But few fly pure shield rr gangs. Thanatos is by far the most common carrier. Chimera is there with the nid. Most support bs fleets are armor tanked. Chimera is great to rep a pos, but isn't much help for most other carriers or dreads (they need armor once out of siege, not cap).
Grista	Posted - 2009.05.07 18:28:00 - [25] No carrier is useless. Neither the Chimera nor Archon are optimal for 0.0 warfare, since they can't remote rep armor and shields. EHP and tank discussions are pretty meaningless if you have 20 dreads or 50 BS shooting you. You're going to die whatever cap ship you're flying. There are two downsides with the Chimera: 1) It is more expensive to fit, due to CPU issues requiring some faction mods 2) It's dread counterpart is crappy because citadel torps take time to reach their target, and are useless against anything smaller than another cap or control tower Now, if you already have Caldari BS V trained, the Chimera/Phoenix are another matter. More so if you have Torps V, and missile support skills at V. Just understand the Chimera is a sub-optimal carrier that leads to a sub-optimal dread. Even with the recent proposed changes to citadel torps, the Phoenix will remain less desirable than a Moros or Revelation. The "best" carrier is the Thanatos cause it can do everything you want a carrier to do, and leads to a dread that is decent, though not the best. If you're thinking of training something else, train for the Thanatos.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.07 18:38:00 - [26] Crack, again assuming equal EHP, that just isnt true. Both have same EHP + both are being repped in their tanked domain (thanny in armor, chimera in shields), with equal RR ammount, then they will pop at the same time.
Distorted Perception	Posted - 2009.05.07 18:45:00 - [27] You can argue all day as to why shield tanked carriers are less used but that doesn't change the fact that they are. And that makes them inferior.
Crackzilla The Shadow Order	Posted - 2009.05.07 19:10:00 - [28] Originally by: Furb Killer then they will pop at the same time. In a perfect world I would agree. Consider that the pilots won't broadcast until 25% shields are lost. This is a higher ehp lost for a shield tanker from the get go. The shield tanker is likely to lose more waiting for the locks. The shield tanker is likely to spend less time in the shield buffer.
Ap0ll0n Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.05.07 19:29:00 - [29] If you fly a Thanatos without atleast 1 of each RR, you have failed. The Chimera is a good ship, and i think you should train for it, if its what you wan¦t. But it depends on your skills really. If you have Amarr or Gallente BS 5, and decent armor skills, you might as well go for the other carriers..
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate	Posted - 2009.05.07 19:34:00 - [30] Edited by: Cambarus on 07/05/2009 19:35:43 Originally by: Furb Killer Armor tanked carrier: They first go through your shields, during which time you cant receive help (assuming you are in a pure armor RR gang). When you get into armor (probably very fast), you will get RR and everyone got you locked by now hopefully. So your shields are gone, and they help you keep yoru armor stable Shield tanked carrier (assuming pure shield RR gang now). They first go through your shields, which means you can instantly get help from your buddies, while the thanatos needs to wait untill his shields are down. Assuming the total EHP of the thanatos and the chimera would be equal, and you would get the **load of damage that before your friends lock you, you are allready deep into armor (not my scenario), then a chimera is deep in armor with remote shield reps on him, and the thanatos is deep into armor with remote armor reps on him. How would that make shield reps worse? (Especially since shield reps also rep in the beginning of the cycle). Wrong. You're assuming that no one is going to RR a thanny's shields, which I assure you is not the case. There was an argument similar to this a little while back in which I posted a hypothetical situation to show that from a local point of view armor tanking is better, I'll quote it here: Quote:** I've got 2 carriers, one armor tanks and one shield tanks. Each one has a sustained tank of 1000 DPS, 100k EHP in their unbuffed buffer and 200k (for simplicitie's sake we'll say the resists are either 0% or 50%, with the same number of raw hitpoints) where they have hardeners. Remote rep carrier support gives 1000 hp/s in both armor and shield. Enemy fleet has 5000 DPS. Chimera: 5K DPS - 2k (which is 1k remote rep/the 50% resists)-1K for the local tank = 2k DPS, so 100 seconds to get through the shield. From this point on, while the carrier is still getting technically shields, we'll just treat them like resist bonussed armor HP, and as such while going through the armor, we have the same 2K DPS, minus the actual armor repping itself, which removes another 1k DPS, leaving us with 1k DPS total. It will then take another 100 seconds to chew through the armor (hull will be ignored as it's the same either way) Total time spent: 200 seconds Now look at an archon, same stats but reverse the armor and shield. 5K DPS - 1k tank = 4k DPS, so the shields go down in 25 seconds. 4K DPS - 2k DPs - 1K dps (remote and active tank) = 1k DPS, so it will take 200 seconds for the armor to drop. Total time taken: 225 seconds. Now I won't use these numbers to make any sort of statistic because they're nowhere near being accurate, these are just here to prove the point that removing all other variables, you're better off in the armor tanked ship. Combine this with the fact that more people use armor then shield tanks in pvp and you've got a clear choice when choosing what type of tank is better. That being said, if you've got a lot of SP invested in caldari go for a chimera. ANY carrier is a good carrier and even unbonussed ships can benefit from a cap shield repper or 2 on them. If you're still at the stage where you're not too race-oriented in terms of SP, go for gallente or amarr. The amarrian carrier is better, and when (not if, when) you train for a dread the amarr have the best one in the game for POS/CAP warfare. The gallente however benefit more from the BS V and drone skills needed to get into a carrier, and their dreadnought is bar none the best sub-capital killer in the game (well you could argue that a titan is better, once that DD goes off they're useless so )

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