| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Raskor
   |
Posted - 2003.06.21 07:03:00 -
[31]
Mara and Passari are 0.4 seclevel choke points in empire space. And you think because of that if someone doesn't want to deal with pk'rs they should move to a different region?
0.4 is not supposed to be lawless - 0.0 is. Perhaps the pirates should start playing within the spirit of the game instead of exploiting every game mechanic weakness they can find.
If I go to a 0.4 I accept the risk that someone can shoot at me and if that happens the police will not come to my aid. That does not mean however that a corp should be able to camp the gate and deploy lag beacons all over to ensure anyone warping in is lagged so bad as to guarantee the kill. And then summarily destroy every inbound ship or hold them all hostage.
If you ask me MOO got off too light being teleported out. They obviously don't seem to take the hint. Next time they set up camp in empire space they should be vaporized, pod and all. Get a taste of their own medicine.
|
j0rt
|
Posted - 2003.06.21 07:25:00 -
[32]
6.5 hours after it happened and they still havent moved me...
|
ShadowStrike
|
Posted - 2003.06.21 07:26:00 -
[33]
 Quote:
If you ask me MOO got off too light being teleported out. They obviously don't seem to take the hint. Next time they set up camp in empire space they should be vaporized, pod and all. Get a taste of their own medicine.
If a player corp took this action and defeated M0o, I wouldn't mind. M0o are players just as you are. To have GM's who have god like powers in this game to interfere in a player run blockade is stupid. There are plenty of people on at any given time to crush all of the pirate corps, but you all lack the orginization and the balls to do it. M0o, as well as other pirate corps are tight knit groups of people who are trained to fight. I think it arrogant for corps to think that when a pirate corp runs from a large fleet that its cowardice. Pirates know when to fight, and when not to. If you are going into a battle that is fair fight, then you're going in unprepared. Right now guarding a gate is possibly the best place to have a battle. Since you can warp away if you get hurt, but hold there long enough to take down a few of the approaching enemies. Any tactician would recognize this, and M0o has so I congradulate them on it. This game is based on the excitement from Conflict and Choas. Having a peaceful server, where no one attacks one another is boring and pointless. Conflict is the only thing that makes eternity interesting, chaos is thing only entertainment of the gods. If everything is perdictable and perfect... eternity would be a endless prision of torture. To know bliss, you must also know pain. If you understand this... then you understand all that is important.
Edited by: ShadowStrike on 21/06/2003 07:28:46
You currently have 157 skills and 26,183,909 Brain cells |
Raskor
|
Posted - 2003.06.21 07:38:00 -
[34]
Empire space should be defended by the empire. I'm not saying there shouldn't be conflict but camping newbie areas should not be permitted. I warped to the gate in a reaper, 4 pk'rs target me, webify me, warp lock me and blow me out of the sky. Yeah, me and my mighty starter weapon were REALLY gonna contribute towards taking out players with tricked out cruisers... Uh huh.
All total 1 reaper and 5 ibis's and 1 pod destroyed. Are you really that naive to think the game will survive when a handful of players are going out of there way to chase as many newbies off as they can?
Yeah and one of the MOO bragging about how they pull in 100-200m in a weekend with their blockade. What good will that do them when CCP pulls the plug because the number of players never got high enough to pay the bills?
Edited by: Raskor on 21/06/2003 07:42:17
|
j0rt
|
Posted - 2003.06.21 07:40:00 -
[35]
0.4 is not newbie system...read the warning firt time you enter it ;)
|
nails
|
Posted - 2003.06.21 07:47:00 -
[36]
The sudden wormholing of m0o corp members did not seem like something very "roll-play" or something CCP would do to keep the flow of the game going. What I see is a GM that abused their privaleges. The GM power to wormhole people is used to "unstick" players incase the game locks up at gates. Using this for undermining purposes on a corp that has no way of fighting back or running away isn't cool. CCP needs to have a little better control over GMs and their actions.
------------------
http://ota-corps.otaku.jp -- Anime l33t level
|
Raskor
|
Posted - 2003.06.21 07:48:00 -
[37]
Lonetrek is a starting region and empire space. If blockading a 0.4 is acceptable practice why even have sec levels. Just change it to 'safe', 'semi-safe' and 'better buy insurance'.
Why doesn't MOO go blockade the 0.0 systems where the big corps are strip mining the bistot and other rare ores? Too much of a challenge? I personally have no respect left for MOO after having not one, not two, but SIX newbie ships blasted to bits by cruisers. Seems to me you just want to oppress a people that are ill equipped to defend, thus it is perfectly correct for the empire to step in.
|
ShadowStrike
|
Posted - 2003.06.21 07:49:00 -
[38]
Raskor, I don't think you understand the human aspect of this. Why do pk's kill? Why do we as humans still hunt? ItĘs a sport; we kill deer and fowl not because they are hard to kill, but because it gives a thrill. Obviously in this day and age, food is not hard to come by if you make at least a mediocre living. So why do we still feel the need to indulge our ancestral instincts? Simple, we kill because we can. We kill because we are animals. Survival of the fittest is what nature emphasizes on a daily basis. I think we as a society have forgotten this.
You currently have 157 skills and 26,183,909 Brain cells |
ShadowStrike
|
Posted - 2003.06.21 07:58:00 -
[39]
Quote:
Why doesn't MOO go blockade the 0.0 systems where the big corps are strip mining the bistot and other rare ores? Too much of a challenge? I personally have no respect left for MOO after having not one, not two, but SIX newbie ships blasted to bits by cruisers. Seems to me you just want to oppress a people that are ill equipped to defend, thus it is perfectly correct for the empire to step in.
Why waste time on battleship bearing fleets, that will cost about 5-10 million in cruiser losses to take down. When for nearly nothing you can capture / destroy a convoy of newbie haulers carrying tons of trade items. Simple logistics, newbies carry more than they can afford to lose, and have little protection. They die easy, and pirates reap the rewards. Hitting bistot mining operations arn't profitable, unless your out to get rares from other players. The only reason to hit a deepspace mining op is to kill pilots and loot rares from the fighter escorts. Grabbing the ore is not a viable option since its too large to carry back. This is more geared toward corporate warfare, not pirating.
You currently have 157 skills and 26,183,909 Brain cells |
Aramut
|
Posted - 2003.06.21 08:03:00 -
[40]
I think that warping moo is the lamest way to handle the situation. What they should have done is fix their code and prevent people from lagging the gates. Then the other thing they should have done is "NOTHING" ! Whats next, angels are gonna come and resurect all those killed by moo or maybee the Jovians sudenly dislike moo and destroy them? I myslef plan to play a phychotic killer in EVE killing all that I see. Thats what I want to do, I don't want to mine, hunt pirates, trade or anythig. I don't care about isk I just want to hurt people thats why I pay 12 bucks a month for this game. I wana be the EVIL KILLER. So now that others don't like it I'm gonna be removed from the game.
If thats going to be the case this game should be named. " For mentaly chalenged people who like to stare at rock for years and fly around collecting space dust and if you get hurt by someone else we will aoutomaticaly take your side since you are too dumb to wipe your own ass and such. etc"
Every game I played I was always killing someone I'm not going to change it now. Especialy for you whiners.
|
Korben Dallas
|
Posted - 2003.06.21 08:06:00 -
[41]
ywev and gauss just appeared in nm-oea... gms are moving em around.. although what this achieves and why i do not know... i wish they would spend less time playing with pirates and answer my petition
Aikon-Systems
|
Tharrn
|
Posted - 2003.06.21 09:08:00 -
[42]
Quote:
I think that warping moo is the lamest way to handle the situation. What they should have done is fix their code and prevent people from lagging the gates.
I wonder why CCP didn't have this brilliant idea so far. I am sure you could have done it in a week *rolls eyes*
The only viable course of action is:
1. Warn people that CCP views their 'camouflaging' as an exploit
2. If they continue to do it either ban them or strip them of all skills and assets.
3. Case closed
I don't know if they are afraid to do it or if they simply see m0o as inofficial part of the bug-hunting team finding all possible exploits for them :P
|
j0rt
|
Posted - 2003.06.21 09:31:00 -
[43]
This has nothing to do with cargo containers i was afk in a station after helping do a bit mining for a bs, there was no mass of cargo containers at the gates ....
Edited by: j0rt on 21/06/2003 09:57:32
|
Torval Sontu
|
Posted - 2003.06.21 10:12:00 -
[44]
Wow I dunno what to say to this...
I will say this thread is full of m0o arse kissing lol.
Guys please remove your lips from their arse.
|
Lymm
|
Posted - 2003.06.21 10:20:00 -
[45]
"Why do pk's kill? Why do we as humans still hunt? It’s a sport; we kill deer and fowl not because they are hard to kill, but because it gives a thrill"
I have hunted for years, and this "thrill" you talk about is the challange of taking game. It doesnt have anything to do with killing it. I will say, some people however do kill just for the "thrill" of killing. These are the same ones that go to canned ranches and pay massive amounts of money to be led out to game as its feeding, at the same place it feeds every day and then they shoot it. But these to me, are not hunters. And I think this kind of behavior stems more from a lack of self-esteem and a weak will than from any aspect of "humanity". Animals dont kill for the sake of killing, and to compare animals to these punks of Moo, does these animals poor justice.
"Who won the bet on when I would get my Cruiser blown up?" -Russian |
Callas
|
Posted - 2003.06.21 11:01:00 -
[46]
It seems to me that too much attention is being focused on the particular issue in hand - the moving of moo - rather than the general issue, which is on what basis do GMs intervene in the game?
GMs intervene in a number of small ways already - for example, I recall after the introduction of gate pirates a friend of mine had been caught out in a very hostile system and was escorted by a GM to safety.
I also understand GMs have a role currently in resolving fraud issues involving players placing fake buy and sell orders.
It seems clear there are useful and widely accepted roles for GMs.
What appears to be common to these widely accepted roles is that they are well defined. It is straightforward to see when a GM should be involved, and exactly what he should do.
It appears, however, given the Battleship assasult on moo two weeks ago and now the actual teleportation of moo, that GMs also have some quite loosely defined roles, to wit; if a group of players is considered by the GMs to be causing too much trouble, the GMs can take whatever action they consider necessary, as is shown by what occured, attacks with superior ships and indeed direct violation of the "reality" of the game by using teleportation.
This leads naturally onto the question of exactly what *are* the roles GMs have? who defines them? have they been defined? what happens if the player base object to a GM role, or how the GMs have gone about fufilling that role?
It would appear as far as I can tell that GMs define their own roles; GMs decided it was time to attack moo, and GMs decided it was time to teleport moo.
This means then that GMs operate on the basis of enforcing what they consider to be best for the game.
It would appear as far as I can tell from this thread that the majority of players object to the action that has been taken. There is a strong difference of opinon between the players and the GMs about what is best for the game in this case.
When officials are elected, the public crudely speaking ensures that the official holds the views of the majority, since a majority of votes are required to win. If the official's views or behaviour are objectionable to the majority, he is likely to be replaced at the next election.
GMs however are appointed rather than elected. Their views are not by the device of election aligned with that of the player base they serve, and there is no mechanism by which players can replace a poor GM.
In fact, alarmingly, it is GMs themselves who must deal with the matter of poor GMs.
If the player base dislikes their actions, it can make a loud noise - like this thread - but cannot actually *do* anything. It must rely on the GMs themselves to make changes in their own behaviour, or hope to catch the attention of a dev and persuade him that something must be done.
This obviously will not fly.
GMs, having the same tasks, the same day to day difficulties and problems, the same basic agenda, will sympathise strongly with each others decisions and back each other up. The player base, with it's seperate agenda, may well regard these decisions very differently, but what can it do? it has no means of regulating the GMs.
It might be argued that the players are the real force in Eve, since they pay the subscriptions which finance the game. Players do indeed, collectively, wield enourmous power. The problem is that the entire player bases is not a coherent body, and the economic power wielded by only a few players is negligable. If every player at once said "I will leave" something would be done. If a GM antagonises a player - or a dozen players - by his actions, what can those few players do? especially since players have invested a significant amount of time and money into the game; if they leave it will have a negligable effect on the GM, but it will cost themselves a great deal.
The Eve game is technologically advanced. The Eve body politic is primitive. Programmers are not politicians or sociologists who know how a functioning political system works. Such people are however needed just as badly when a game has thousands of members.
--
Callas
Edited by: Callas on 21/06/2003 11:36:33 |
WhiteDwarf
|
Posted - 2003.06.21 11:06:00 -
[47]
"I'm sorry to say it but for some reason I think the next thing the GM's are going to do is just /kill m0o Corp I mean this is rediculous."
I'm all for it.
"Trust No One" |
DeathStar
|
Posted - 2003.06.21 11:33:00 -
[48]
Yeah i agree i didnt know of the warping.. but do u want to know the person's that Moo got?
IT WAS ME!! And my partner CEO We both had Black birds that just spend lots of time mining to get wiped out due to the lack of thought by the GM's. It was very lame to do. y not just warp them in to Amsen, or Kisogo next time...?
|
fedgrate
|
Posted - 2003.06.21 11:36:00 -
[49]
Yup, just get it sorted. Make a decision and get it sorted. Pulling stunts like this does not sort the problem. |
Yurin
|
Posted - 2003.06.21 11:41:00 -
[50]
I am all for Player pirates, it adds a great deal to the game ....but.... even though MOo's principles are sound, in as much as they behave just like real pirates would, (i.e. they prey on the weak/weaker)the bottom line is they are hurting the game at this early stage of its release.The game has not had enough time to develope, to the point where player run corps can keep a choke point open 24/7.
If MOo can't see that what they are doing at 'this point in time' is bad for the game, then i for one will support ANY action that CCP takes against them.
Sorry guys but the game is larger than any one corp and if you hurt the game by taking advantage of a design flaw you have to go...not completely you understand...but back to where you belong.. 0.0 space making 'raids' on empire space, not living in it 24/7.
|
BLACK HORSE
|
Posted - 2003.06.21 11:44:00 -
[51]
I have no love for m0o in fact i dislike them as much as i can (and am able to communicate on this forum) but the fact that m0o corp is making up for smaller parts of thier anatomy does not make it right for ccp to interfere with a corps actions. Lets face it if this could be real life then this would happen. If m0o were gone i would be disapointed for several reasons. 1. I would not have the experience of making them disapear. 2. I would no longer have the joy of cursing someone out that i dont know for podding me because i was stupid. 3. They add a necessary part to the game as a whole.
It is up to the players of EVE to deal with these type of corps not CCP. I understand the possible financial aspect of EVE's decision but they should have found a better way to deal with it after all if getting killed and losing a ship and a skill will make you stop paying $12.00 then you dont like the game anyway. This is an awsome game and CCP made it awsome.Now its time for CCP to concentrate on fixing bugs and finding ways to make it even better.
j0rt im coming for yea baby. Operative Terminus
Edited by: BLACK HORSE on 21/06/2003 11:47:06
|
Tabius
|
Posted - 2003.06.21 11:46:00 -
[52]
This was clearly innapropriate behavior on CCP's part. Really, the only things left to arque about are what they should do to the GM that clearly abused his power. And what CCP should do to let customers know that this game isn't going to turn into their employees personally little playground.
So far they are acting as though they built this game for themselves and we are just being 'allowed' to participate at their whims.
They need to very quickly set down a strict list of rules for the GM's and enforce it... and make sure that they make their customers 'Confident' that they will enforce it.
This is such incredibly bad behaviour by a game company that It goes beyond anything I've ever heard of. Could you even imagine a reputable game company acting this way? Like Blizzard? or an established MMORPG game?
They have a serious problem and fixing it internally will only be half the solution. The other half will be gaining the respect back from their customers.
|
drunkenmaster
|
Posted - 2003.06.21 11:51:00 -
[53]
you can't chart a GM's responsibilites/reactions.
If you do, it just gives a clear defined line that people will just walk along.
And it's not CCP's fault that those cruisers got destroyed. Firing is not (yet) a passive act, so someone must have reached for a switch.
.
|
Tharrn
|
Posted - 2003.06.21 12:01:00 -
[54]
Quote:
Callas wrote:
It would appear as far as I can tell from this thread that the majority of players object to the action that has been taken. There is a strong difference of opinon between the players and the GMs about what is best for the game in this case.
Never ever assume that the boards of MMOGs are in any way representative. There's much more whining, swearing and cancellation threats on the boards than you'll ever find in-game.
BTW I agree that steps against 'troublemakers' either have to be taken in-game or completely outside of the game (ie banstick) depending on the cause of the complaints (exploits, cheats, harrassment, sexism, RL racism all need to be adressed outside of the game-mechanics, while a valid yet destructive playstyle needs to be taken care of entirely within the natural laws of the universe).
|
Callas
|
Posted - 2003.06.21 12:03:00 -
[55]
Quote:
you can't chart a GM's responsibilites/reactions.
GMs, to my mind, are like umpires in a game.
Umpires enforce the rules of the game; the rules define what is permitted and what is not permitted, and what occurs in the case of transgressions.
In other words, the behaviour of the umpire is defined by the rules of the game.
The problem right now is that there are no rules for Eve. GMs do as they think best.
Imagine a season of American football where the rules are not defined, but the umpires have a general, roughly similar idea of what ought to be done and the umpires are free to take whatever action they think best.
Quote:
If you do, it just gives a clear defined line that people will just walk along.
That doesn't seem to be a problem in sports.
Eve is more complex than a sport, but I would say this problem is by far lesser than there being no rules by which to govern the behaviour of GMs.
Quote:
And it's not CCP's fault that those cruisers got destroyed. Firing is not (yet) a passive act, so someone must have reached for a switch.
This is blatantly incorrect.
We are free to choose to be pirates. Moo are not at fault for attacking those two Blackbirds.
The pilots of those Blackbirds had no way of avoiding the situation the GMs placed upon them.
The GMs seriously screwed that up; at the least those players should be reimbursed for their losses.
--
Callas
Edited by: Callas on 21/06/2003 14:34:35
|
Selila
|
Posted - 2003.06.21 12:19:00 -
[56]
moo are aggressively pursuing a strategy aimed at preventing significant numbers of players from reaching their level of power, or experiencing aspects of the game for which it was bought.
In game terms, this might be acceptable. In metagame terms, CCP cannot allow it to continue - who's going to buy a game that they can't play to the full because of a bunch of idiots exploiting their beta-test experience to prevent them? The question is whether CCP should continue to deal with this in-game or by banning certain moo members.
Ban on what grounds? Continued exploitation of massed-container lag, for one, but there's also another, more serious possibility. Many members of moo were involved in beta-testing. Once the game went live they designed their ships to exploit an imbalance related to multiple damage-boosting modules. This is precisely the sort of balance issue which should have been discovered, reported and resolved during beta, and wasn't. Just how aware of this issue were moo members during beta, and why did they not report it in order that CCP could resolve it. Did moo beta-testers deliberately conceal this issue in order to exploit it to the full post-live and gain their current dominant position? It's difficult, verging on the impossible, to believe that this was not the case, and this is ample grounds for banning those involved.
|
Korben Dallas
|
Posted - 2003.06.21 12:58:00 -
[57]
well i can actually sympathise with moo, in fact i might do the same.. im waiting for a second response to my petition.
i still have a sec rating of 7.5, i wonder how much misery i could cause in low sec space in bringing that down to -4.9? therore anyone whos ****ed off at CCP/Gms, simply go on a rampage and get other players to quit. Wont be long before they feel it in their pockets. BTW i havent done this yet but am contemplating it... it will certainly be more rewarding them sitting mining for days to get back the cash i lost to some dumbass bug/unexplained/unclear part of the game.
Edit: ah ha i could have a go at getting 10mil bounty on my head to recoup my loss!! plus id post the conversation of any player that quits as a result to the GMs and go haha that cost u 13 dollars a month! :P
Whay am i ****ed off... see below
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=10753
Edited by: Korben Dallas on 21/06/2003 12:59:29
Edited by: Korben Dallas on 21/06/2003 13:11:17
Aikon-Systems
|
E TT
|
Posted - 2003.06.21 13:09:00 -
[58]
Well, GM's teleporting players sux big time.. But this thread is quite funny and ironic: I mean u have here the guys (moo) who look for every hole, every weaknes, every exploint in the game and use it to gain unfair advantage over the rest of the players, and now they are complaining that they where treated unfairly by the GMs. Did the GM's do the right thing? maybee not, but it is still funny how moo reacted.
|
vf142rex
|
Posted - 2003.06.21 13:21:00 -
[59]
Great post E TT. Probably the best I've seen so far on this thread.
Hey guys, I don't know why you are still argueing. Its pretty clear that you are set in your ways and blatently refuse to even consider the other side's view. So, shutup and leave the bandwith for threads that can actually be constructive. |
118 118
|
Posted - 2003.06.21 14:06:00 -
[60]
I love this game and it's been a lot more interesting of late with Mo0 around. Keep it up fella's and I'll keep paying and playing.
I'll be there when the time comes!
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |