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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
404
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Posted - 2012.05.09 20:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
Thanks for finally working on faction war. Allot of these things have been needed for a long time. And allot of the work -including the faction war info page - is top quality.
In the end I think
1)the long time it takes to flip systems combined with
2)the no docking rule and
3)increased pve opportunities for the winning side
Will make faction war in general and the combat in particular much more similar to sov null sec.
I predict (yeah I might be wrong) the combat will be much more dependant on organizing large numbers of people together to grind through systems. We can see lots of eve players are quite happy about this and it's no surprise, as that is how many aspects of eve are "won". If they didn't like then many wouldn't be playing eve.
But I sort of liked the more casual nature of faction war and the frequent quality pvp in it. The pvp did not require large fleets and you could get lots of good fights from plexes in the shortest possible time short of arranged fights in hubs and rvb. I am glad you will consider eliminating the station lock outs. That would be a big step toward keeping faction war an option for me.
If you end up keeping faction war as this more sov null sec type game then I would ask that you consider something like Jack Dent's proposal for low sec in general:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=42987&find=unread
It's not not good as what faction war currently offers but it would offer casual players like myself who were in faction for the frequent small scale pvp something. There are a few of us who love eve and love small scale pvp but are not interested in this serious business of organizing sheep to blob and then gloat over all the isk we can now carbear.
I highly doubt the station lock out idea will be compatible with my style of play. With faction off the table I feel like my options are getting even more limitted after this expansion. Jack Dent's proposal would at least make low sec more promising for casual low sec pvpers and lessen the blow. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
404
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Posted - 2012.05.09 21:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
"First, the offer requirements in the respective faction LP store will decrease. As such, at the lowest tier, LP store offers will be 4x times more expensive as they are now, while at the highest tier, they will be 4 times as cheap. This only applies to ISK and LP requirements for offers, not tags or items. It also only counts for the 4 Factional Warfare militia LP stores; no other corporation will be affected."
I think I must have this wrong.
A navy micro auxillary power core now cost 1500 lp.
If I am fighting for a losing faction and therefore have the lowest tier it will be 4xs more expensive or 6000 lp.
If I am fighting for the winning faction and therefore have the highest tier it be "4xs as cheap" or 375 lp.
If that is correct then for the majority of items in the lp store the winning side effectively gets 16xs the lp for a pvp kill.
The losing side would get effectively 1/16 the lp for a pvp kill with respect to the shared items. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
416
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Posted - 2012.05.12 01:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
zero2espect wrote: You should take into consideration who is giving you feedback, before you slap yourselves on the back CCP. You have the CEOs or senior members of the last active Amarr FW corps saying the changes are "not the best" and you have 99% of all Minmatar pilots saying how awesome it's going to be and people who have never been in FW saying it is "good except for data cores"..
Good post but I would say there are quite a few minmatar who see the new sytem is null sec lite and don't like it.
What I find is that people who are quick to defend null sec blob mechanics and like tell everyone "herp derp htfu" are the ones most in support of these changes. There are allot of such people in eve now and they are likely to make up an even larger percent of the eve population, unless ccp does something to recognize casual small scale pvpers are important to them.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
417
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Posted - 2012.05.14 17:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cynthia Nezmor wrote:Soldarius wrote:EDIT: I borked my math. HerpDerp
Ok, so I went to SISi to try out some FW content. For 6 hours I ran 1 Outpost, 4 Major Outposts, and a Major Stronghold. From a zero start, I accumulated 140k LP in about 6 hours. Major Stronghold was a ***** in an AF. The others were easy enough. I'm confident that I could do that in half the time now that I know what they're like.
LP payouts for plexes are astonishingly high. I sense an implending flood of FW items into the market. This makes level 4 missions a joke. Orbit for 20 minutes in a frigate and get 25k LP. That's 1250 LP per rminute, or 100k LP per hour. At a good LP to isk conversion rate that comes to 100M isk per hour, not including tags. Or I could buy a ****-ton of datacores.
Make cloaks nonfunctional in FW plexes or this will be abused so badly it will break the FW item marketplace.
Next, I noted with some laughter that I could still dock in Gallente controlled stations. However, I could not use any of the station facilities. Still had access to my hangers. Rather pointless if you ask me.
I then asked a level 2 agent for a mission. His offer was 8 jumps away for a measly 1200LP and some petty cash. My response was "Are you ******* kidding me?" DECLINE.
Went back to farming LP and tags in my Rocket Hawk. A lot of us can finish a L4 mission that pays 35k LP in less than 5minutes. (Not counting travel.) Once I converted 1 mil LP at the rate of 7000 ISK/LP. I would like to hear your numbers again, especially "per hour".
If all of the missions will go only to a hostile system the larger side can just pick a system to leave to the enemy. They will likely pick a ssytem next to their best agent so there will be no travel time. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
424
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Posted - 2012.05.18 14:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Niko Lorenzio wrote: So.... capturing systems is NOT going to deny enemy faction from docking at stations or better yet deny using the services but allow them to dock?
Docking restrictions are in full effect on SiSi at the moment (Try it! It really sucks if you don't own space.) and will be implemented with Inferno on May 22. I'm pretty sure Ytterbium's talking about adding station fire and NPC's on top of the lockout mechanism, which is the first step they are taking to make Sov mean something. If it "breaks the game" somehow, they're open to adjusting it. But as of right now its something everyone will have to adapt around till we see how it affects the warzone.
Breaks the game for whom? For casual pvpers or for those who prefer null sec strategies applied to faction war?
Also are they going to fix the plexing bug before inferno launches? Or are the minmatar going to be able to roll into inferno with a huge advantage that was due in part to exploits? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
425
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Posted - 2012.05.18 19:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Cearain wrote:...Also are they going to fix the plexing bug before inferno launches? Or are the minmatar going to be able to roll into inferno with a huge advantage that was due in part to exploits? Advantage, yes .. exploits, no. Shoddy mechanics and balance is what it is, pretty sure that were the shoe on the other foot "we" (still not I, for I am 'honest') would milk flaws for all it was worth. If you see someone intentionally using a bug (ie. exploit) then report them .. it is unfortunately all we can do. Personally gave up ages ago when repeat offenders kept flying around even after I provided visual proof within seconds of transgression. If they manage to keep on schedule and complete Inferno roll-out in 4 months then we "may" have a level playing field for christmas .. albeit one where we will be striking out from high-sec
I'm not sure I follow you. After inferno it will be much harder to flip a system than it is now. Not only will we not be able to dock there but it will take 5xs as long. The bugs help the side holding more systems before the rules are changed with inferno. Regardless of which side I was on I would want some opportunity for both sides to fight for occupancy before the systems are basically set in stone by the inferno mechanics.
CCP still has not fixed well known bugs, that have been acknowledged for months. These bugs break the core mechanic of faction war from which all these consequences come.. This is why its really hard to take ccp serious when they claim they are not just throwing this expansion out to let it sit abandonned. Please ccp start with the game breaking bugs. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
427
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Posted - 2012.05.21 21:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:It's nice to see that the biggest topic about the changes to FW are people talking about data core that are likely just current farm alts now.. Meaning the soon to be only interest in FW will be from farm alts in 6 months time or less..
The fights themselves over the space and ISK has already been made pre-patch day.. Any changes from now will likely because everyone gets bored and leaves.
Faction will not be empty any more than null sec will be empty.
It's just that faction war will not have the casual small gang pvp appeal that we hoped ccp would build on. Instead they scrapped that entirely, and turned it into a stepping stone to null sec. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
430
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Posted - 2012.05.23 16:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:I'm on it already, but thanks for pointing it out! I'm talking about it with the devs on Skype, it should be a straightforward thing to fix.
Is there a way to tell where the most recent changes occurred? And whether those changes helped or hurt. I.E., I would like to know where the enemy is plexing so I can fight them. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
430
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Posted - 2012.05.23 16:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:The addition of datacores to FW makes no sense to me. You're expecting industrialists to join FW, ruin their standings with 2 factions, divert skills to being able to fight rather than continuing with industrial skills? I don't get it.
If the only issue was to eliminate effortless farming, there were much better ways to do it. Less RP from sitting around and more from running missions for that agent, offer the missions more often, limit the amount of RP you can save with any agent (cap it), or come up with a new mechanic that industrialists could do.
If the issue is giving better rewards to FW, why don't you ask them what they want? I doubt that datacores would have been high on the list.
What they did with faction war in this expansion had little to do with what people in faction war wanted. CCP said they wanted to make faction war a stepping stone for null sec. So that is what they did. Some people in faction war like that, some don't. I don't think their views really mattered to ccp. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
430
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Posted - 2012.05.23 17:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
You guys should be able to get to level 5 even without taking any additional systems shoudln't you?
Level 5 should give you everything in the store at 25% the lp and isk cost right?
At level 4 you get half price? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
430
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Posted - 2012.05.23 19:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Cearain wrote: What they did with faction war in this expansion had little to do with what people in faction war wanted. CCP said they wanted to make faction war a stepping stone for null sec. So that is what they did. Some people in faction war like that, some don't. I don't think their views really mattered to ccp.
You can keep copypasting this stepping stone buzzword over and over again, but its patently untrue.
Hans
CCP keeps saying the inferno fw changes were intended to make it a stepping stone to null sec. Why don't you believe them?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTflpRVu3Kc
At least one other dev publicly said the same thing.
Moreover, you continue to misrepresent the community. What one or 2 people suggest is not what the community wanted. Your thread in eve general is what got the faction war community behind you.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=18015
Please show me the part of that thread were we had any sort of consensus on station lock outs for the side that is losing.
In fact you even proposed on assembly hall the lesser consequence of having station guns fire on pilots. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=42240
And yes you have good old hwong jian proposing lock outs. He has been posting everywhere how great it is from his non-faction war npc corp. But other than that the response was that even that consequence was too much.
Hans I will agree that this inferno change has brought many good changes.
But you are becoming such a foaming cheerleader you are ignoring ccp own statements about their intent, misrepresenting what the community that elected you wanted, and misrepresenting what inferno does.
On that last point its laughable that you claim station lockouts are a nerf to running missions in stealth bombers. Really you are becoming so biased you are hardly even coherent.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
430
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Posted - 2012.05.23 19:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:docking rights are a good thing. They realy are not the issue of the current system.
The main problem in my opinion is that the weaker faction has almost no chance to recover. Nobody will buy navy geddons for 1mil lp right now. The longer this state holds on the weaker the faction will get overall. Docking rights are totaly irrelevant. ...
Sure we can recover! We can plex the systems back.
The problem is its hard to plex when you can't occassionally dock up and fix the damage that the rats do. So the most common solutions are to:
1) gimp your ship with an active tank and thereby warp whenever an enemy comes
2) only plex in systems close to where you can dock so you can constantly go and repair your armor damage. Which again leading to you likley missing out on pvp if anyone comes because you will have to jump out of system to repair your tank to fight them and they will likely leave. It will also lead to a less spread out faction war area.
So yeah the docking rights is a problem for the side trying to fight their way back up - unless you don't really care about pvp and just want to pve.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
431
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Posted - 2012.05.23 22:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Cearain wrote: CCP keeps saying the inferno fw changes were intended to make it a stepping stone to null sec. Why don't you believe them?
Well, it might have something to do with the fact that itGÇÖs not what theyGÇÖve said at all. For starters, you can see exactly what the lead designer for EVE Online has to say about your insistence that theyGÇÖre trying to turn FW into 0.0.
Wow big surprise that he claims they were not doing this in light of the huge backlash from faction war players that they did not want faction war to be like null sec.
The problem is he forgot to send the memo out to the other developers that they are not supposed to admit that they are making faction war as a first taste of null sec so they can easilly step into that part of the game like was described in 2:38-2:52 of the video I linked.
Or Yitterbaum specifically said he it was a design point to make it a stepping stone to null sec in his interview on bringing solo back.
I'm not saying it was the only goal but it clearly was a goal. The developers said it was. I think that is unfortunate. Because i don't think null sec needs a stepping stone. Especially sov null sec.
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: There is a substantial difference between saying that players will USE it as a stepping stone, and saying they are designing it to become 0.0. You are parsing words, and misrepresenting the developers..
BS I refer to what the developers said. You are the one who linked one dev trying to do damage control when players reacted negatively to how inferno makes fw "null sec lite."
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: Secondly, your assertion that only one or two individuals in the community brought up station lockout, is also completely untrue. EVE-searches clear that up pretty easily, but youGÇÖre welcome to keep making numbers up. ....
Again I provide the sources for what the community that elected you was saying. Please if I missed lots of people give me the link in the thread. If you are asking whether this topic came up in the entire history of faction war yes I agree it has. Copying and pasting ideas from one area of the game to another is a pretty easy solution. Why not apply null sec mechanics to faction war? Why not apply incursions to faction war? Yes people have mentioned these ideas over time of course. For you to suggest that just because they have been brought up means that the community is to blame for ccp locking us out of stations is pretty extreme.
Bottom line you provide no link showing any sort of community consensus on this issue. I have provided threads that by your own work you have identified areas of consensus and that one is not listed. Indeed I even show your similar but less severe idea of station guns was not even really accepted.
But again you can keep imagining history how you want it people who want to see what really happened can look at the links I provided. While we are looking at history here is one of your campaign videos that no doubt motivated the community that elected you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPCggF0O8_o
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
431
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Posted - 2012.05.23 22:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:tell me how the recovery should work if the main FW income (lp shop) is basicaly useless. What i said is that the longer this it is out of balance (one strong faction and a weak) the harder it will get to recover.
i am plexing right now in lamaa. Its one jump away from the next station i can dock (kamela). I still see a problem here.
There is a difference between
1) giving and economic incentive to fight. and 2) making it harder for the smaller side to actually combat the other.
The lp stuff deals with #1. Station lock outs is #2.
I do faction war for the pvp. So I don't mind being on the smaller faction. The fact that I am in the smaller faction makes pvp harder already. CCP doesn't need to implement mechanics that make it even harder for the underdog to fight back. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
431
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Posted - 2012.05.23 22:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
SigmaPi wrote:Cearain wrote: Wow big surprise that he claims they were not doing this in light of the huge backlash from faction war players that they did not want faction war to be like null sec.
The only "huge backlash" is from people who feel like they are being targeted because CCP didnt reset stuff. While I don't know how you get yourselves out of the situation you find yourselves in, the fact is, this entire expansion is exactly what FW needed. 3,000+ ship kills in kourm/kam the past few days proves that.
Yeah except I was against a reset.
As far as a few days proving anything, I disagree.
That is why I won't say its proof of my prediction that most of the combat in fw will be much less spread out. We will have to wait before we claim proof about this system. But I will say my predictions are looking pretty spot on so far.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
431
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Posted - 2012.05.24 00:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:Cearain wrote:Bienator II wrote:tell me how the recovery should work if the main FW income (lp shop) is basicaly useless. What i said is that the longer this it is out of balance (one strong faction and a weak) the harder it will get to recover.
i am plexing right now in lamaa. Its one jump away from the next station i can dock (kamela). I still see a problem here. There is a difference between 1) giving and economic incentive to fight. and 2) making it harder for the smaller side to actually combat the other. The lp stuff deals with #1. Station lock outs is #2. I do faction war for the pvp. So I don't mind being on the smaller faction. The fact that I am in the smaller faction makes pvp harder already. CCP doesn't need to implement mechanics that make it even harder for the underdog to fight back. unless you see docking games as pvp i still don't see an issue here. again: my base is 1j away from the combat site
Are you saying its good that you have a limited number of systems you can plex in?
How are you running the majors? What sort of fit- active or buffer?
I looked at your killboard and saw mostly pve fits - not sure if this is an alt. If you use a pve fit to plex the no docking rule won't be an issue I agree.
Docking games and gate camping are the lowest form of pvp IMO. I rarely did either under the old system. Now with big consequences and limited ability to dock I have a hunch we will get more gate camps. But again we can just wait and see. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
431
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Posted - 2012.05.24 13:30:00 -
[17] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Cearain wrote: CCP keeps saying the inferno fw changes were intended to make it a stepping stone to null sec. Why don't you believe them?
Well, it might have something to do with the fact that itGÇÖs not what theyGÇÖve said at all. For starters, you can see exactly what the lead designer for EVE Online has to say about your insistence that theyGÇÖre trying to turn FW into 0.0.....
In addition to the sources for developers explaining that it was an explicit goal to make faction war a stepping stone to null sec I also responded to Soundwaves ?feigned? shock that players considered this null sec lite.
Cearain wrote: ....
Let me explain why the comparison with sov null sec being made:
1) In null sec it takes a long enough time to flip a system so a small gang can't do anything of substance before the more numerous side can form a blob and chase them out. You are doing this by making it take longer to flip a system. 2) In null sec you can deny docking rights so roaming fleets in enemy space are more rare, easier to counter, and take more planning and time to form up. 3) In null sec if you get the blob to capture a system you can upgrade your system so you can carebear more effectively
I mean this is basically sov null sec in a nut shell. In this expansion you are doing all these things. So in those regards you are making it more like sov null sec. In what ways is this expansion making faction war less like sov null sec?
.
So not only are the mechanics bringing faction war much more in line with null sec play but the developers explicitly say that was the intent. Yet you continue to try to deny this.
Its no different than your claiming that station lockouts count as fulfilling the communities request that doing missions in stealth bombers be nerfed. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
432
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Posted - 2012.05.24 18:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
I am not misrepresenting anything. This is what you said Hans:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:*UPDATE* We did it!! ....
3.) Faction Warfare missions easily farmable in a Stealth Bomber. Result is missions that encourage PvP as intended (by nature of being on overview), but do not encourage diversity of ship types or cooperative gangs to complete. GÇ£PvPGÇ¥ that surrounds current mission system is primarily limited to interceptors chasing bombers. NERFED!! Station Lockouts coming with Inferno will drastically reduce mission farming for the losing faction, forcing them to PvP in order to access agents again
....
The exclamation marks were yours.
Your claim that the losing side will have to pvp to make money is a pretty odd claim to make. Currently the Amarr lp is worth about 1/8 the minmatar lp. So while the winning side can certainly make money from pvp I don't see how the losing side is going to do very well with that as their source of income.
If you mean the losing side will have to plex to make isk.
First we can still run missions from our various high sec agents.
Second it remains to be seen if this offensive plexing will really lead to more pvp. there is good reason to think that due to the lock out rule plexing will be even more of a pve activity than before. When we do plex we will need active reppers (becasue we can't dock and repair) and will likley need to gimp our ships with a cloak in the highs and always an mwd to avoid the inevitable gate camps. Both of these problems with how will need to fit our ships will make it less likely that plexing will be a pvp activity.
Fourth: you are forgetting the more numerous winning side and what a emphasis these changes place on missioning for them.
Fifth: the actual concern of missions being farmable by stealth bombers was not even addressed. If anythign the station lock out means you will need a ship that can get past gate camps since you can no longer dock. Accordinlgy stealth bombers just became even more desirable.
Sixth: No sensible person will try to earn a living from the methods offered to the losing side. The best option for isk is to join the winning side and farm those missions. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
432
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Posted - 2012.05.25 14:11:00 -
[19] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Mutnin wrote: You seem to be ignoring the flip side of that coin.. Those of us that weren't so interested in farming missions but wanted to PVP, are now forced to do PVE (grind plexes) in order to have a place to dock close to the action.
Not only do we have to do it once, but it has to be done over and over each day because the new mission farmers are now plex farmers. At the very least there should be some reward for having to go around and undo what all the farmers did when I was at work or asleep.
At least with mission farmers they couldn't stop me from docking.. With plex farmers they sure can and I'm pretty sure the bulk of them will run from PVP.
There is nothing to force them to have to PVP.. If I enter a plex they are grinding down, they will just run to the next system, just like mission runners did. Now on flip side if there was a mechanic that took their earned LP away from the last plex they ran if I ran them out of the current plex then there might be a reason to fight.
It may seem like that, but I'm not ignoring it. The bottom line is that the plexing is Faction Warfare. Its a unique mechanic for taking and holding territory that relies on small subcap fleets and not dreadnoughts blapping structures endlessly. Battles over plexes are considered pretty exciting by a lot of Faction Warfare pilots, and they were the basis for the PvP tournament at Fan Fest for this reason. The Faction Warfare community's top request for 3 years has been "Give us a reason to go plex, its a good mechanism for getting fights, but only if people care enough to go there in the first place". There have been a few that want the plex system completely gutted, but most would agree that the mechanic itself isn't near as problematic as the lack of reason to engage in it in the first place. Plexing may *seem* like a PvE activity, and is whenever its incredibly slow and there's little reason to engage the enemy inside one. When there's war targets that don't want you to take that plex, it becomes a PvP mechanic. Obviously there's work to do on the NPC's so that they don't discourage PvP, but in general plexing is what makes Faction Warfare unique from Red vs Blue, simple piracy, a static wardec, or any number of other types of PvP gameplay available elsewhere in EVE. (Inb4 station lockout = "gameplay" available elsewhere in EVE) All that to say, when the community says for years "Give us a reason to care about doing this so we all do it and fight each other in the process again" and than all of a sudden we HAVE a reason to plex, the complaint that "why are you forcing us to plex" rings rather hollow. Some will farm plexes for LP, or tags, or whatever, but that doesn't make plexing exclusively a PvE activity. The more motivation you give pilots to plex, the more you turn them into a PvP mechanic. There are a lot of us myself included who will be running a lot more plexes in the future, and very much want you to come PvP whenever we do. That's the point. You can say that "all plex farmers will run from PvP" but these kind of speculative statements are functionally useless at this point in the development process, what is needed is real feedback based on activity that is actually occurring on the server - and right now that is a lot of PvP going on inside plexes, fighting over territory.
Hans What you need to understand is that there is plexing for occupancy and plexing for pvp. When you plex with occupancy as your main goal you are better off running from fights. When you plex for pvp well you sacrifice at least some of your plexxing efficiency.
That is how it always has been (see anks post from way back about doing over 100 plexes in under a week with no pvp) and ccp really hasn't changed anything to make plexing itself more of a pvp activity. (although they have done things to increase pvp in general such as improving the lp per pvp kill pay out) They just added consequences to plexing which means more people are plexing in general. But its still most efficienly done in a pve fit running from combat.
Now people stopped doing that because it was boring and paid nothing so what is left in fw are mostly people who plex for pvp. So we are getting allot of fighting and players are saying "to hell with plex efficiency. Lets have 40 people sitting on a button in kamela instead of 40 people on 40 different buttons throughout the fw area because that way we will get more pvp." Which is and always has been my view. I like the pvp. But I at least am cognizant of the fact that if I really wanted to win the occupancy war it wouldn't be through pvp.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
432
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Posted - 2012.05.25 14:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
Arguments I am seeing:
Permise 1: CCP made 15 different changes to faction war.
Premise 2: PVP and plexing has increased.
Conclusion: Therefore each and every one of the 15 changes was good and none of them could be bad.
While I agree that premise 1 and 2 are true the logic is horrible.
This is why the idea of lets "wait and see" what happens is illogical. The data won't answer what changes are causeing which results because there are simply too many changes at once. They are essentially confounding variables.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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