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Greyhawks	Posted - 2009.05.11 21:17:00 - [1] As the titel implies I'm trying to figure the pros and cons of the two. I've got lots of skills in the amarr line which includes perfect cap skills and good support skills in the gunnery tree. I'm not really interested in the golem as I don't find missiles to be that much fun. I'm already able to fly a paladin and all I really need for these two ships are the battleship skills and their related weapon system. My drone skills include drone interfacing V so cruisers and frigs aren't a problem. As far as tanking goes I've got most of my skills in armor tanking although my shield skills has caught up recently. It's going to be used primarily against angels. I have little knowledge about the two weapon systems other than people seem to dislike minnie because you'll be fighting in falloff, as I understand it. Then there's the cool factor which they both have in their own way. The kronos looks awesome but I kinda like being the underdog... When doing missions I usually go by the saying gank before tank, as there really is no need for the tank if they're already dead, so maybe there's a differnce between the two ships there?
Mikal Drey Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.11 22:02:00 - [2] hey hey i fly a varg and have used both styles (arty and auto) so the varg can give you that flexibility. its primarily a shield tanker and i just recently switched to a perma running XL booster setup and its barely being scratched even when i agress loads for ***s and giggles. the projectiles themselves can run into problems as autos eat through ammo at an insane rate but i like the ammo type switch and against angels RF fusion rocks. you will need some warrior II's for assistance as im still finding that autos still dont hit close orbiting frigates. i get a fairly decent 591 DPS with fleet fusion and as angels like to come in close range isnt an issue. problems with the varg as the usual minmatar ones and you need to find a compromise between how you want to setup. with a gank setup ive found out tank can be way to compromising and the tank setup (my perma run XL) lacks an form of turret support apart from drones. being a shield tanked/turret ship it needs more mids ! ! ! ! as i would kill for a web/painter + runnable shield tank. even without ewar support the arties and the auto setups cope competently enough to run missions with. the varg is a typical minnie ship and if flexible in your setup but can suffer because of it (hence the need to overskill) i got a setup with a large booster + amp web/paint 22min cap burnout 423 DPS tank / 721 DPS (fusion) so the flexibility is there without doubt. (no dps numbers include drones) apart from the usual minmatar stuff i cant really fault the varg. i dont fly a kronos but from what i hear from kronos pilots they lean towards more cookie cutter setups but again i hear no complaints. Marauders in general are perfect for PVE so go with your heart :) Shattered Crystal - 60 day GTC
JordanParey Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.05.11 22:17:00 - [3] I really don't know what is different between your setup for the Varg and mine, Mikal, but I do ~50 more DPS using Fusion than you do. Do you by any chance have fleet guns/gyros fitted? I get a 505 DPS tank using a Pith B XL booster and no amp, with a DPS output (theoretical) of 766 with Fusion L (regular t1.) This isn't including any implants..
Min Qa	Posted - 2009.05.11 22:59:00 - [4] Originally by: Greyhawks It's going to be used primarily against angels. If you are going primarily against Angels, the Vargur is a good choice despite its other short comings. While I usually prefer long range weapons for missions, at least Angels tend to come to you. =)
JordanParey Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.05.12 02:11:00 - [5] Originally by: Min Qa Originally by: Greyhawks It's going to be used primarily against angels. If you are going primarily against Angels, the Vargur is a good choice despite its other short comings. While I usually prefer long range weapons for missions, at least Angels tend to come to you. =) The Vargur would be the best choice, then. Just make sure you fit it well- Fleet guns (Republic Fleet 800mm Repeating Artillery), Fleet/Domination gyrostabilizers, and an afterburner.
Mystafyre Caldari Dark Materials Heretic Nation	Posted - 2009.05.12 04:38:00 - [6] Vargur is roleplay ship, only reason why anyone would actually use it
Mikal Drey Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.12 05:54:00 - [7] Originally by: JordanParey I really don't know what is different between your setup for the Varg and mine, Mikal, but I do ~50 more DPS using Fusion than you do. Do you by any chance have fleet guns/gyros fitted? I get a 505 DPS tank using a Pith B XL booster and no amp, with a DPS output (theoretical) of 766 with Fusion L (regular t1.) This isn't including any implants.. this is what im currently fielding and this time ive gone for running the XL booster and being totally cap stable (39%) [Vargur, How I Roll] Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Capacitor Flux Coil II X-Large Shield Booster II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Stasis Webifier II 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I 604 DPS TANK 591 DPS TURRETS LX-1 CX 2 Skills Used (mine) NO drones included NO reload factor Just a small note on your other mention of fleet gun ... with fleet gunz you dont get better DPS compared to TII. i have looked many times for a decent pimp setup but for various reasons i just dont feel justified in doing so. i used to have a set of Gist b-type boosters for my claymore but they exploded in a horrible afk accident. gist boosters are awesoeme for minmatar ships tbh and the cap benefit on a marauder would be my chice fo factshun this is about my 3rd varg setup and i already miss my 14's :''(
Crawler Gallente Northern Star Brigade	Posted - 2009.05.12 05:56:00 - [8] the Kronos in a rail setup is all you will ever need. its large drone bay alows the use of heavy drones. only 3 but they do alot of damage to battleships. while still having room for alot of light drones. its insane range alows you to use antimatter allow for long range attack. it got a pretty heavy tank exept for a weakness against explosive. if fitted correctly then you will have 2 low slots free for anything you like. It can pretty much become immune to NOS if fittet correctly _____________________________________________ yawnnnnn
Kazacy Caldari Invicta. Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.05.12 07:16:00 - [9] Tbh i use kronos with rails, ab, weber,tracking computer, cap booster and 3 damage mods, all t2. If you know what to do you can run angel extravaganza very easy despite the explosive hole in the tank. In the not so distant future, when i have the skills i will try the vargur fit from above for sure.
comrade captain	Posted - 2009.05.12 07:30:00 - [10] Edited by: comrade captain on 12/05/2009 07:35:07 I fly both and the vargur has no equal vs angels as they come into your optimal for autocannons, using 2 tech 2 falloff rigs with tech 2 800 acs and a tracking enhancer in a low a tracking computer in a med with tracking script i can hit cruisers right down to 5km raneg which is brilliant and i can hit out to 68km with barrage ammo. Kronos is best vs serpentis and guristas and vargur is better vs angels. Please resize sig to a maximum file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal
mr passie Minmatar Purgatorial Janitors Inc. Avarice.	Posted - 2009.05.12 09:42:00 - [11] Originally by: Mikal Drey Originally by: JordanParey I really don't know what is different between your setup for the Varg and mine, Mikal, but I do ~50 more DPS using Fusion than you do. Do you by any chance have fleet guns/gyros fitted? I get a 505 DPS tank using a Pith B XL booster and no amp, with a DPS output (theoretical) of 766 with Fusion L (regular t1.) This isn't including any implants.. this is what im currently fielding and this time ive gone for running the XL booster and being totally cap stable (39%) [Vargur, How I Roll] Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Capacitor Flux Coil II X-Large Shield Booster II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Stasis Webifier II 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I 604 DPS TANK 591 DPS TURRETS LX-1 CX 2 Skills Used (mine) NO drones included NO reload factor Just a small note on your other mention of fleet gun ... with fleet gunz you dont get better DPS compared to TII. i have looked many times for a decent pimp setup but for various reasons i just dont feel justified in doing so. i used to have a set of Gist b-type boosters for my claymore but they exploded in a horrible afk accident. gist boosters are awesoeme for minmatar ships tbh and the cap benefit on a marauder would be my chice fo factshun this is about my 3rd varg setup and i already miss my 14's :''( o/ mikal old buddy :D interesting setup there, but aren't the shield capacitor safeguard thingy rigs better? Also with the 4 turrets with damage bonus I usually use barrage ammo. I know t2 ammo for missions is a bit blasphemous but the insane falloff and damage will **** anything, even long range rats. Also I used 3 x republic fleet gyro's for pure awesomeness. but that is not a prema tanking setup. PJI is recruiting! visit ingame channel "purgatorium" for details
Tzeriz	Posted - 2009.05.12 10:21:00 - [12] Edited by: Tzeriz on 12/05/2009 10:21:23 Vargur is a beast aganist Angels, it's by far my fav ship for angels t2 AC ammo destroys the odd 40km bs rats they have, and with t1 fusion + max skills/implants you can get 791 dps from guns alone, 870 (Barrage L), faction ammo, just add 15% more damage 4800MM II Pithi b-type Small booster 2 t2 shield boost amp, 3 hardners of choice(max 2 invulns or goes cap unstable) low 4* RF Gyro(don't need tracking enhancer tbh) 1* DCU II Needs max cap skills, 5% cap rec implant and 5% max cap
Greyhawks	Posted - 2009.05.12 11:26:00 - [13] Thanks guys for all your replies! Certainly seems like the Vargur is the winner here Guess I can try Maelstrom on the road to the Vargur just to get a feel for it.
Mikal Drey Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.12 11:30:00 - [14] Originally by: mr passie interesting setup there, but aren't the shield capacitor safeguard thingy rigs better?. . . not in the case of my setup as the main goal is to permarun the setup with full cap stability without the need for mass pimpage. i use barrage on the npc's who fly further away (Mordus/EOM) costs a tad though :) however. . . Racial Ammo > Everything and angels dont like fusion did i teach you nothing !! i did have a 14's setup with 2x Fleet Gyros (shameless bio plug scroll down) but as per usual the gank setups are very light on tank. [Vargur, alternative sexalicious] Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Capacitor Flux Coil II Large Shield Booster II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Stasis Webifier II Shield Boost Amplifier II Tracking Computer II (used to be a painter ) 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I again it will permarun : 423defense 721dps and better tracking. you could get a cheap(ish) gist large booster drop a cap rig and add a collision or your prefered projectile rig. adding faction mods needs (for me) to have a benefit over TII and the small boost a faction amp will give isnt worth the iskies and when your perma running its a very moot point. before this thread derails to a varg thread it shows how flexible the ships are and true matars have endless debates over them. to the guy who said about a tracking comp.. thanks alot i'll most likely flip out my web for one so im gonna send you stuffÖ :) Shattered Crystal - 60 day GTC
Tzeriz	Posted - 2009.05.12 12:32:00 - [15] Edited by: Tzeriz on 12/05/2009 12:32:27 Forgot to mention, my setup uses PRojectile Ambit Extension *2 (t2 ones, they're like 60m each), gives me 43km falloff with fusion and 65km with barrage, not fitting ambits on Vargur = :(
JordanParey Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.05.12 21:23:00 - [16] I'm still really not sure why you would want to use fleet ammo in a mission if you aren't Amarr..that would get way expensive. Barrage is out of the question too, still too expensive. You could accomplish the same thing with regular old Fusion L (or even Nuclear L). Killing things at 80km is great for autocannons but then you'd be spending time flying over to the wrecks so you can tractor them..
Mikal Drey Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.13 07:16:00 - [17] Originally by: JordanParey I'm still really not sure why you would want to use fleet ammo in a mission if you aren't Amarr.. er . . . . because i can i convert all my ammo with LP and blow it on misions and PVP. im very much an ammo snob and proud of it... .
comrade captain	Posted - 2009.05.13 10:01:00 - [18] Originally by: Mikal Drey Originally by: JordanParey I'm still really not sure why you would want to use fleet ammo in a mission if you aren't Amarr.. er . . . . because i can i convert all my ammo with LP and blow it on misions and PVP. im very much an ammo snob and proud of it... . im the same amigo i love faction ammo it makes missions a lot faster.
Turiel Demon Minmatar Shadow Reapers	Posted - 2009.05.13 10:21:00 - [19] Cheapish faction fit: [Vargur, Faction] Domination Gyrostabilizer Domination Gyrostabilizer Domination Gyrostabilizer Power Diagnostic System II Capacitor Flux Coil II Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier Cap Recharger II Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Salvager I Projectile Ambit Extension II Projectile Ambit Extension II Hammerhead II x5 Perma-omnitank: 850+ (runs 7mins with the AB active) Speed with AB: ~450m/s DPS graph: (starts at ~900) Also, it has come to my attention that I'm really in need of a proper signature.
FT Diomedes Gallente Titan Industries Technology Team Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2009.05.13 13:34:00 - [20] I use both ships for various kinds of PvE (L4s, L5s, WH, exploration, 0.0 ratting). For non-0.0 use, I always use faction ammo with Marauders. This is the Vargur setup I find the best against non-Angels: [Vargur, Q's Vargur - Pithi Mission] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System Damage Control II Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II Shield Boost Amplifier II Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Republic Fleet 1200mm Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Republic Fleet 1200mm Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Republic Fleet 1200mm Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Republic Fleet 1200mm Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Salvager I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 This is the Kronos setup I have used to good effect. When paired with my NH pilot, it may be the most effective Serpentis/Guristas killing duo out there. The Kronos is seriously awesome in L4 and L5 missions. Then again, when used by a skilled pilot against the right NPCs, this is true of any of the Marauders (the Paladin is far and away the best ratter for Drones, Bloods, Sanshas, etc.). [Kronos, Dio's Kronos copy 3] Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Gallente Navy Armor Thermic Hardener Gallente Navy Armor Kinetic Hardener Damage Control II Amarr Navy Large Armor Repairer Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner Gallente Navy Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Amarr Navy Cap Recharger Amarr Navy Cap Recharger 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Salvager I Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit II Hammerhead II x5 ...this doesn't even seem to be a regular case of rats fleeing the sinking ship. Seems more like the rats are on fire, the ship is on fire, and the sea is full of drunk Russians. - Jacob Etienne

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