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Suicide Mike
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Posted - 2009.05.12 21:38:00 -
[1]
Ok, a friend has started a trial account. He can fly a Cormorant now, but I have heard that Destroyers are pretty much junk. He is Caldari, but does not care which race ship he flies. Obviously Cruisers are not far off skill wise, so...
My question is which Cruiser for PVE would be "best". His gunnery is marginally better than his missile skills(both are at the minimums) so doesn't matter which weapons either.
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.05.12 21:42:00 -
[2]
Caracal, Vexor and Arbitrator are the best newbie pve cruisers imo.
Since you mention missile SP but no drone SP I'm gonna say Caracal.
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Suicide Mike
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Posted - 2009.05.12 21:48:00 -
[3]
He has no Drone sp, but his missile sp consists of Missile launcher II and Standard Missile I, lol.
Would Drones be a better way to go?
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.05.12 21:50:00 -
[4]
Edited by: TraininVain on 12/05/2009 21:51:42 Both work very well tbh. Both have nice BC options and BS options in the long term.
I'd probably suggest missiles just on the basis of how awesome the Drake (missile spewing battlecruiser) is but with focussed training either could be good options. I keep hearing how great the Dominix (drone battleship) is although I like my Raven (missile battleship).
If his connection is ever prone to disconnecting on it's own definitely missiles but otherwise it's a fairly close run thing.
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Suicide Mike
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Posted - 2009.05.12 22:03:00 -
[5]
Well, crud. He doesn't want to use missles, he wants to be different(I fly a Drake).
Is the Thorax a "better" ship than the Vexor? I realize that the Vexor has a larger bay(drone and cargo), but in the short term being only able to handle 3-4 drones(due to skills)...would the extra turret on the Thorax be a better way to go?
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.05.12 22:11:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Suicide Mike Well, crud. He doesn't want to use missles, he wants to be different(I fly a Drake).
Is the Thorax a "better" ship than the Vexor? I realize that the Vexor has a larger bay(drone and cargo), but in the short term being only able to handle 3-4 drones(due to skills)...would the extra turret on the Thorax be a better way to go?
I'd say no.
Turrets are problematic for missions especially at lower levels. The problem basically is you get a tonne of frigates which makes turrets a bit inefficient imo.
Turrets miss small stuff close in and have limited range. L1 and L2 missions have lots of small stuff that likes to orbit close in. Drones OTOH can put damage on stuff from 0 out to whatever your drone control range is regardless of which way you're flying etc. etc. They also mean you can carry anti-frigate and anti-cruiser weapons on the same ship without refitting.
Rax has a bonus to medium turrets and MWD usage. Medium turrets will have "missing small stuff close in" issues. MWDs you can't use in missions anyway so in a lot of ways that's two potentially wasted bonuses from Gallente Cruiser skill.
Vex OTOH has the same turret bonus but also has a drone bonus. At worst you're wasting the turret bonus.
Get him to train drone skills up ASAP and fly a Vex tbh.
I think I had something like this when I got my first Vex for L2s: Frigate guns, remote armor rep for drones or Drone link augmentor // afterburner, cap recharger, cap recharger // medium armor rep, membrane, membrane (change to suit damage type for mission), capacitor power relay
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Suicide Mike
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Posted - 2009.05.12 22:16:00 -
[7]
Well, he's going Vexor.
Thank you for the advice, we appreciate it.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.05.12 22:30:00 -
[8]
Well ....
First off - Destroyers are fine for Level I missions. They chew through frigates as fast as you can lock them and with a good afterburner can easily kite them. Put 5 150mm Rail guns on your Cormorant and any Level I mission in this game is cake. Load Anti-Matter to start in case you get dumped into the middle of a mess by the mission, then AB away as you blast the rats close to you.
For range, unless you've got your missile skills fully trained with Bombardment and Prjection - those 150's will outrange Standard Missiles with Iridium Ammo.
And - if you foul up and lose a ship you shouldn't have lost - you'll have lost a destroyer instead of a Cruiser. You'll have plenty of opportunity to screw up and lose Cruisers once you get to Level II's which are at least paying you more money.
Spend your time running Level I's building up your support skills in Destroyers - and then maybe when you start doing Level II's in Cruisers you won't lose them so often.
Use the right tool for the job. Destroyers are the ships best fit to run Level I missions. Get their agro, let them chase you and them blow them up with your 150mm's as you kite them along. The rats in level I's have mostly short range guns and wont' be able to touch you - unless you get webbed. For the mission with the stasis tower - blow it up first.
Now then ... if you're more concerned with Excitement than losing ships ... fit blasters on a Thorax and dive right into them.
Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
Suicide Mike
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Posted - 2009.05.12 22:37:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
Now then ... if you're more concerned with Excitement than losing ships ... fit blasters on a Thorax and dive right into them.
Hmmm...
That sounds fun, what do the races tank? I mean, I know that Caldari are shield tankers(passive or active0, what are the others? Do Amarr armor tank?
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.05.12 22:49:00 -
[10]
Thing with destroyers is you may as well just hop in a cruiser. The gap in ISK and skills is tiny. As soon as you've put any effort at all into being in a dessie you could've been in a cruiser.
Also medium blasters have tracking issues with small fast stuff orbiting close.
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Marine HK4861
Caldari Radical Technologies
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Posted - 2009.05.12 23:20:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Suicide Mike
That sounds fun, what do the races tank? I mean, I know that Caldari are shield tankers(passive or active0, what are the others? Do Amarr armor tank?
Depends on the ship bonus and the slot layout of the ship.
More lows than mediums generally mean an armour tank. More mediums than lows generally mean a shield tank.
That said, Gallente and Amarr ships tend towards armour tanks, Caldari ships tend to be shield tankers and Minmatar ships are split between the two.
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Laeris Evanstar
Amarr Petals of Derketo
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Posted - 2009.05.13 04:22:00 -
[12]
Ya, Amarr are armor tankers as are most gallente. However...gallente can be shield tanked in many cases since for the most part, per the class they have more medium slots than Amarr ships do. So, I've seen some setups where people will gimp-rig a gallente Bs for a shield tank (albeit, not a very good shield tank), then they'll stack the heck out of damage mods on the lows and use things like capacitor power relay modules on the lows as well to boost recharge.
Amarr, are solid armor tanks on almost every ship they have. Most Amarr don't even fit a shield booster. Gallente are mostly armor tanks but they can shield tank some if they want to...they do have some slots to play with. Caldari, like Amarr, are specialists but they are shield tankers. And, Minmatar are a mix between the two. Take the Hurricane and Cyclone Battlecruisers. The Cyclone is a shield tank with a bonus to shield boost amount. The Hurricane is an armor tank.
"Not your typical Roleplayer" |
Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.05.13 05:40:00 -
[13]
Originally by: TraininVain Thing with destroyers is you may as well just hop in a cruiser. The gap in ISK and skills is tiny. As soon as you've put any effort at all into being in a dessie you could've been in a cruiser.
.
This was exactly what I thought when I skipped destroyers and went straight to Cruisers. Then, after getting some Cruisers blown up for no good reason ... I started using destroyers to blow up frigates and haven't lost a one.
Part of the problem with being a new person who easily gets into a Cruiser is - you don't know what the **** you are doing. You're sailing about in a ship that is much to big for the skills you have and worst of all - you get an un-warranted impression of the power and majesty of your Cruiser. Then you do something you shouldn't do and get it blown up.
Make your mistakes - you will make them - in something cheap. Sure, a T1 Cruiser is cheap compared to a Battleship but it is expensive for a new player getting their income from Level I missions.
THE most common rookie mistake in EVE is going up in ship size before you are ready.
People think that bigger is better and only learn to their sorrow how very wrong they are.
Level I missions require minimal weapons skills - so what you should be skilling while doing your Level I missions - is your support skills. Then - when you get into your Cruiser and run Level II's - you'll have some moderately decent Cap, CPU, Power Grid, Shield and Armor skills - and maybe won't get your shiny new Cruiser blown up so easily.
It isn't getting into a Cruiser once that is hard for a new person - it is replacing them ... then replacing them again ... and again ... because they didn't know what they were doing, had a farce for a tank and kept getting them blown up.
After I put away the cruisers I was using as a new person and went to destroyers ... when I came back ... I had a really good laugh at how I had fitted those Cruisers. I had no idea what I was doing. All in all ... I'm surprised I didn't lose more than I did.
Oh ... and for those who obviously didn't get it - that bit about the Blaster Armmed Thorax diving into the midst of a bunch of mission rats ... was not a serious recommendation but rather a "do this and you'll learn why not to do things like this" comment.
You want to Kite your Level I and II rats - not dive into the midst of them.
They are crappy little ships with powerful short range weapons. The solution to lots of crappy little ships with short range weapons that want to swarm you - is to kite them. Destroyers are faster than cruisers. Thus, they can more easily outrun the swarms of crappy little frigates and take them out from beyond their weapons range. If you have a Cruiser - you can still do that - but you're ship handling needs to be a bit better to manage it. You need to know how close you can go before turning away and getting your AB's going - and how to manage your speed so you don't outrun them.
With big cap eating guns on those cruisers its a lot better to really understand your Cap and have the skills trained to deal with it.
I never had the cap problems on a Destroyer from the use of my own weapons that I have with Cruisers - and that is WITH my cap skills trained up.
But don't listen to me - you go right ahead and fly those cruisers if you want to. If you get them blown up - I'm not the one who's going to be paying for them.
Oh ... yes ... and Insurance ... I don't insure my PVE ships. I don't need to because I'm not going to get them blown up. After paying far more in insurance premiums than I ever would have paid to replace the ships I lost (not to mention the transportation problems of not being able to repackage them ...) I gave up on insuring ships. After all - there is a default insurance of 40% that is free. When you insure your ship - you're paying for levels above that.
Yes - it is easy to get into big ships fast. To easy. Do it at your own peril.
Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
Cyprus Black
Caldari Elitist Jerks Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.05.13 08:21:00 -
[14]
I happen to be fond of destroyers. They're like the cheap knockoff of the swiss army knife. Versatile yet flimsy.
I mostly use mine for level 1 missions and salvaging as it seems best suited for. ______________ Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn. |
Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum
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Posted - 2009.05.13 11:27:00 -
[15]
Originally by: TraininVain Thing with destroyers is you may as well just hop in a cruiser. The gap in ISK and skills is tiny. As soon as you've put any effort at all into being in a dessie you could've been in a cruiser.
Also medium blasters have tracking issues with small fast stuff orbiting close.
I was going to point out the error of your first paragraph, but luckily you did it yourself in the following one.
Cruisers use medium weapons, which have approximately ten times worse tracking than their equivalent small weapons. Medium weapons were designed to hit cruisers and up, and in fact are meant to have trouble hitting frigates. With relatively low skills (both in terms of Motion Prediction and possibly in terms of manual piloting to reduce transversal) this will be compounded.
Destroyers get very nice bonuses to small turrets, always range and often damage, tracking or even more range, so they will be able to hit frigates very well from far away. In fact they can use small weapons at similar ranges to the medium weapons; but with the better tracking they'll have no problems hitting the smaller ships. You could drop down to small guns on a turret cruiser, but then you're doing less damage than a destroyer. (The tank will be much much better of course, which could be an issue if you're not able to keep your destroyer safe through range).
Destroyers are massively under-rated in general, they're excellent platforms for anti-frigate offense, so for missions where you're up against frigates they're unrivalled.
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Wiseguy980
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Posted - 2009.05.13 13:42:00 -
[16]
[Thrasher, PvE Thrasher] Capacitor Power Relay I Power Diagnostic System I
Small Shield Booster I Small Capacitor Battery I Medium Shield Extender I
125mm Gatling AutoCannon I, EMP S 125mm Gatling AutoCannon I, EMP S 125mm Gatling AutoCannon I, EMP S 125mm Gatling AutoCannon I, EMP S 125mm Gatling AutoCannon I, EMP S 125mm Gatling AutoCannon I, EMP S 125mm Gatling AutoCannon I, EMP S Rocket Launcher I, Gremlin Rocket
[empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
Doesn't take too long to train for and is definately a fun little ship. Chews through frigates pretty fast. I've used it solo up to lvl 2's and works well in gangs for lvl 3 and higher.
of course.. for a little more training time you can go with one of Agony's pvp Destroyer gang fits...
[Thrasher, Generic Wolfpack 280s] Micro Auxiliary Power Core I F-M3 Munition Inertial Suspensor
Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Supplemental Scanning CPU I Stasis Webifier I
280mm 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP S 280mm 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP S 280mm 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP S 280mm 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP S 280mm 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP S 280mm 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP S 280mm 'Scout' Artillery I, EMP S 'Malkuth' Standard Missile Launcher I, Flameburst Light Missile
[empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.05.13 13:55:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Gartel Reiman
Originally by: TraininVain Thing with destroyers is you may as well just hop in a cruiser. The gap in ISK and skills is tiny. As soon as you've put any effort at all into being in a dessie you could've been in a cruiser.
Also medium blasters have tracking issues with small fast stuff orbiting close.
I was going to point out the error of your first paragraph, but luckily you did it yourself in the following one.
Cruisers use medium weapons, which have approximately ten times worse tracking than their equivalent small weapons. Medium weapons were designed to hit cruisers and up, and in fact are meant to have trouble hitting frigates. With relatively low skills (both in terms of Motion Prediction and possibly in terms of manual piloting to reduce transversal) this will be compounded.
Destroyers get very nice bonuses to small turrets, always range and often damage, tracking or even more range, so they will be able to hit frigates very well from far away. In fact they can use small weapons at similar ranges to the medium weapons; but with the better tracking they'll have no problems hitting the smaller ships. You could drop down to small guns on a turret cruiser, but then you're doing less damage than a destroyer. (The tank will be much much better of course, which could be an issue if you're not able to keep your destroyer safe through range).
Destroyers are massively under-rated in general, they're excellent platforms for anti-frigate offense, so for missions where you're up against frigates they're unrivalled.
If you'd read all of what I'd wrote you'd have noticed that the the three cruisers I listed as good newbie pve boats all make efficient, bonused use of anti-frigate weapons. None of them are primarily turret boats.
The Caracal has Assault Missile Launchers. These fire frigate sized missiles from launchers with bigger magazines. They are ridiculously efficient and I believe bonused.
The other two ships are drone boats which don't even have to choose between anti-frig and anti-cruiser weaponry because they can carry both, at once and switch at will.
I'm not saying that a dessie can't be very efficient, I'm just saying that the right cruiser can be just as efficient, more durable and be preparing you training-wise for L3s.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.05.13 15:31:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 13/05/2009 15:34:28 Using more of a tool to do a job than you need to is NOT being efficient.
You will be slaughtering frigates in a destroyer as fast as you can target them. Getting a Cruiser can't improve on that.
Thus - there is NO need for a Cruiser for Level I missions.
You are using an overly expensive ship to do poorly paying missions for new people that don't have loads of cash.
It is a mistake.
As to training - as I said - you should be doing your support skills training in Engineering, Electronics, Mechanic and Navigation during your Level I missions, then about the time your status is good enough to get a good Level II agent - start training your weapons skills up - then move on into a Cruiser and do your Level II's. While you are doing your Level II's you can be training whatever skills you still need trained for Level III's.
Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.05.13 18:44:00 -
[19]
How long does it take to go from L1 missions to L2? It's all of a couple of days as far as I recall.
It's not overly expensive because you then use the same ship for L2s as well. Lets also not forget that it's 1m or so for a destroyer and a whopping 4m or so for a cruiser. That really isn't a huge step.
To my mind destroyers are an inefficient use of ISKs and training time because they're only really good for L1s which you can do very happily in a frigate. If you skill them up a bit then yeah you can do L2s. However you could have spent the same time skilling up a cruiser and be plug and play with a BC.
It's not like the Caracal, Vexor or Arbie are particularly unforgiving of low skills either. They're not gun-boats. The weapons you're fitting to them at this point are easy to fit. The weapons we're talking about let you stay well out of harms way too so it's not a particularly stern test of your tanking ability.
Destroyers are a bit of a detour imo despite you trying very hard to justify liking them. I know they've got the cool factor of loads of guns but unless you really want to guns are not the way to go for PvE
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Joshua Lonestar
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Posted - 2009.05.13 19:03:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 13/05/2009 15:55:27
Using more of a tool to do a job than you need to is NOT being efficient.
You will be slaughtering frigates in a destroyer as fast as you can target them. Getting a Cruiser can't improve on that.
Thus - there is NO need for a Cruiser for Level I missions.
You are using an overly expensive ship to do poorly paying missions for new people that don't have loads of cash.
It is a mistake.
As to training - as I said - you should be doing your support skills training in Engineering, Electronics, Mechanic and Navigation during your Level I missions, then about the time your status is good enough to get a good Level II agent - start training your weapons skills up - then move on into a Cruiser and do your Level II's. While you are doing your Level II's you can be training whatever skills you still need trained for Level III's.
Now - IF - you are already an experienced player and have to go run some Level I missions for some corporation you are trying to raise your status with - and you want to do it in a Cruiser - then it doesn't matter. By then you should have enough money to be able to afford to replace that Cruiser if you lose it - and the skills both skilled and in game - to keep that from happening. Besides - if you already have back up Cruisers and you lose one - you can just go do higher level missions for a while to get the money to replace the one you lost. Replacing a Cruiser isn't a big deal to an experienced player with reasonable reserves he can draw on to pay for it. Replacing a Cruiser to someone just starting out - who has put every last ISK he has into it to get it - is a disaster. You see people who have done this all the time, begging in local for someone to give them a million credits.
Telling new people to use ships they can't afford to lose and are not really skilled enough to use properly, to run missions for which that ship is not needed, is not doing them any favors.
I'd recommend a ship with growth potential even if they are a bit light in skills over getting a ship they are ready for skil wise that has virtualyl no growth potential and will quickly become wasted space in the hanger.
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Bubba Zenetti
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Posted - 2009.05.13 20:57:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Suicide Mike Ok, a friend has started a trial account. He can fly a Cormorant now, but I have heard that Destroyers are pretty much junk. He is Caldari, but does not care which race ship he flies. Obviously Cruisers are not far off skill wise, so...
My question is which Cruiser for PVE would be "best". His gunnery is marginally better than his missile skills(both are at the minimums) so doesn't matter which weapons either.
You really need to get your skills up for destroyers to be fun. They have sick DPS for a frigate sized ship. If your gunnery skills aren't maxed for frigate sized ships, you are wasting your time with them.
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Marguerite Antiki
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Posted - 2009.05.14 02:41:00 -
[22]
Damn - just read this an now feel out of place as I love my Catalyst. I fly it into Lvl 1, 2, 3, and 4 missions. Only cause the lvl 1 and 2s are a cakewalk for me (gun skills nicely set) and the higher level missions are with friends and I just wander in and pop all the frigates while they pop the bigger stuff.
And after reading this I feel confused :P
Personally - Destroyers are a great ship IMHO and should not be overlooked. But like I say, its personal opinion choice - so fly what you feel like, some may laugh at you some may applaud, but it was your choice.
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Plexxy
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Posted - 2009.05.14 03:25:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 13/05/2009 15:55:27
Using more of a tool to do a job than you need to is NOT being efficient.
You will be slaughtering frigates in a destroyer as fast as you can target them. Getting a Cruiser can't improve on that.
Thus - there is NO need for a Cruiser for Level I missions.
Apply this philosophy to skill points. Training up destroyer skills is a side path that will cause you to spend more SP than what you will need later. You're using a tool too big for the job, but you're doing it with your training time, not your ship. If a cruiser can kill frigates just as fast as a destroyer, then what justifies spending the extra training time?
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.05.14 14:21:00 -
[24]
Ah ... Fallacies Galore ...
Between the argument that you can just use Frigates for Level I's and the argument that you should use Cruisers for Level I's ... I'm not sure which is more absurd.
1) Other than the Destroyers skill itself there is no extra training required over that to use a Frigate. That training time is insignificant compared to what you get out of it compared to using a frigate. There is a horrendous leap in skills required from those you need for frigates to use a Cruiser properly. Just training Destroyers I gets you a vastly better ship than a frigate - so the whole "divergent path" and "taking a hit to your long term training" type arguments are completely bogus. AND since you can use them as Salvagers even after you move on to Level II missions and get into Cruisers - they are hardly a waste of space in the hangar. If they were - then you could just freaking sell the thing like you do with any other ship that has outlived it's usefulness.
2) My guess is that all the people who jumped from frigates to cruisers never spent any time in destroyers and thus have no idea what they are talking about. They certainly have no idea what they are talking about ... I'm just assuming that that is why. To say that you can just run Level I's in a Frigate ignores the fact that destroyers are vastly more effective than frigates, especially when salvaging. Look at "When Worlds Collide" - that mission is so much faster to run and salvage with destroyers than frigates it is no comparison. Sure ... you can run all your Level I missions in a Frigate - but why would you? Unless you are just in it for the challenge - there is no reason.
3) Saying that destroyers cost a million ISK and that cruisers only cost a mere 4 million ISK is the height of absurdity. The Cruiser costs 4 times as much! If you are a new person 4 million ISK is still a good bit of money. Especially if you are trying to raise it by doing Level I missions. How long has it been since any of you people were new? It's going to cost you as much as it would a Destroyer every 3 months just for the insurance if you insure it - and - it's going to cost you 4 million a pop every time you lose one if you don't.
4) As to justifying my liking to fly a particular ship - that is precisely what you people are doing. You just want to fly Cruisers so you're trying to justify using them on Level I missions. That's all this is.
My arguments above are completely valid - your arguments are completely false.
You're WRONG and you just don't want to admit it.
As I said - if you're an experienced player and want to run Level I missions in Cruisers - go ahead. But if you're advising new people to do that - it is a mistake - and they are going to be the ones paying for it. Obviously, you people have forgotten what it was like when a Million ISK was a lot of money.
I ran a lot of missions in Frigates because people said that Destroyers were lame. They were wrong and wasted my time.
I bought Cruisers and Skipped Destroyers because people said that Destroyers were lame. They were wrong and cost me a lot of money.
I have used Destroyers on Level I missions and found them to be the best tool for that job.
I have Cruisers and Could use them on Level I missions - but if I have to run a Level I mission for some corporation I'm trying to build my status with - I use a Destroyer to do it - because it does a BETTER job than the Cruiser. It is FASTER for one thing and it pops rats just as fast as I can lock them. Then I come back with my Salvager Destroyer with it's MWD and clean that mission up fast.
Ah well ... you people just gave some bad advice and now you're trying to save face. I'm sure you meant well but you're wrong and should stop trying to avoid being embarrassed by being wrong. You're only making yourselves look even sillier.
Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
Sulissa UrnVelve
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Posted - 2009.05.14 16:51:00 -
[25]
Quote: Then I come back with my Salvager Destroyer with it's MWD and clean that mission up fast.
I hear mwd work great for salvaging in deadspace missions :)
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Vars Shaylo
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.05.14 19:22:00 -
[26]
New players need to get good with frigates and spend some time skilling up and making ISK while learning to fight/fly in EVE. Hopping into a cruiser too soon will leave you fail-fitted, broke and on your way to Emoragequit City.
It takes at least two or three weeks to skill up properly for a cruiser, and to afford one, unless you buy your ISK or get it handed to you. I waited four weeks before buying a cruiser, was ready, could afford to lose it, and it was fun; but I still love flying frigs
The destroyer is a nice stopover on the way to cruisers, and is a great utility ship for Level One Missions/Highsec ratting and salvaging. Take your time with Frigs/Destroyers, cost and skill-wise they're virtually the same anyway.
Not someone's alt |
FOl2TY8
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.05.14 19:41:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Sulissa UrnVelve
Quote: Then I come back with my Salvager Destroyer with it's MWD and clean that mission up fast.
I hear mwd work great for salvaging in deadspace missions :)
It is once you turn the mission in. ---------- This post brought to you by the worst PVP'er in Eve |
Tai Paktu
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.05.14 22:19:00 -
[28]
I'd suggest your friend thing long term. Does he want to do missions as a profession? If so, how does he want to do his level 4s? If Gallente, he can go Dominix or Megathron (or Hyperion). The Domi, arguably one of the best mission running battleships, is almost entirely a drone boat. The progression there could go Vexor -> Myrmidon -> Dominix. Or would he prefer hybrids, like railguns or blasters? In which case Thorax -> Brutix (though the Myrm would probably be better) -> Megathron. Turret tracking can be an issue but is overcome with pilot skill. Managing distance, transversal and angular velocity and fitting a web are all ways to overcome it. Better to train down the road you want to go long term than have to re-train later on (though that'll probably happen anyways).
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.05.15 00:13:00 -
[29]
Originally by: FOl2TY8
Originally by: Sulissa UrnVelve
Quote: Then I come back with my Salvager Destroyer with it's MWD and clean that mission up fast.
I hear mwd work great for salvaging in deadspace missions :)
It is once you turn the mission in.
indeed, right click bookmark ftw!
destroyers are great little ships. if you make an effort to understand guns level 1s will melt away, and you can do most level 2s. although by this point you can probably buy that cruiser
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.05.15 01:43:00 -
[30]
Quote: 2) My guess is that all the people who jumped from frigates to cruisers never spent any time in destroyers and thus have no idea what they are talking about. They certainly have no idea what they are talking about ... I'm just assuming that that is why. To say that you can just run Level I's in a Frigate ignores the fact that destroyers are vastly more effective than frigates, especially when salvaging. Look at "When Worlds Collide" - that mission is so much faster to run and salvage with destroyers than frigates it is no comparison. Sure ... you can run all your Level I missions in a Frigate - but why would you? Unless you are just in it for the challenge - there is no reason.
Laffo. Nope. I got a Cormorant on my first character and it was the best thing evar because it looks like the batmobile. It instapopped L1 frigates. So did my Caracal however. And my incursus on my second character. It's not like L1's are challenging enough to require a specialised ship tbh. L2s are still lots of frigs to shoot. If you think running them is slow in a cruiser you're using the wrong cruiser.
Destroyers aren't that much better than the best gun frigs btw. It's 3.something vs 5 guns (when you factor in the ROF penalty). You also only get a damage bonus on one of them and then it's only significant if you train the skill up a few levels and then you're wasting training time.
Note also that I didn't say destroyers were bad for L1s at any point. It's just frigs aren't bad either and the cruisers I mentioned are better.
The OP asked what the optimum cruiser for missions was. I recommended the optimum cruisers for missions. None of em are gun boats at this stage because of the target mix
Since he asked about missions I recommended ships that would scale up skillwise into good L3 ships. They aren't gunboats either. I have tried all three approaches and I know what kind of carebearing makes my wallet go up quickest
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