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Mr Majestyk
Merchants Trade Consortium The Last Chancers.
5
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Posted - 2012.05.10 16:26:00 -
[31] - Quote
We do it as a point system with google docs. Every character that participates gets a share allowing for multiple characters per player. Everything then gets taxed. All of this is visible to any member that wishes to see it.
-As to the point of directors skimming. If a director wants to take money it will happen one way or another. Has nothing to do with your payment method. |
Juan Sezole
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe R.E.P.O.
9
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Posted - 2012.05.10 16:41:00 -
[32] - Quote
Logi as well as Salvage anyway. DPS just hits F1, but Logi helps them just press F1 lol |
Radelix Cisko
The Adjustment Team
90
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Posted - 2012.05.10 19:20:00 -
[33] - Quote
Thanks for all the responses. We are currently in a transition period where a few members including myself are mending our carebear ways. We do have a PVP'er on staff that is training us and I'm the resident bureaucratic. I have implemented some of these ideas already and I am liking the idea of switching to dues to pay the POS bills and upgrades. I did try something different such as if someone wanted to bring in a structure such as a lab they get the right to run the module exclusively for a short period and a cut of the usage fee to make their isk back This has resulted in us getting various arrays and a lab and hasn't worked out poorly.
Again thanks for the responses |
IGNATIUS HOOD
Zephyr Corp Black Thorne Alliance
312
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Posted - 2012.05.10 19:43:00 -
[34] - Quote
We have one of the corp wallet tabs set aside for our WH. All Salvage and Mining profits go in here. Tower fuel expenses come from this account and the net ISK is divvied up equally among denziens.
We also try to maintain a pretty sizable reserve of cash in that account in case we need to buy infrastructure or purchse/replace WH specific ships. Barges, Nocti, and the occasional Indy do get blapped and need replacing. 'perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim'
Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you.
~I fly spaceships~ |
Ryday
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2012.05.10 19:55:00 -
[35] - Quote
5% tax is more than enough. Most active corpies should bring in over 1b per month in any wormhole. Hence, eight active members should be enough to fuel one large pos.
Mining mats are big so often enough it's left up to the member to actively pay tax on it. PI is easy since you just set the CO tax rate. Sleeper loot is usually where the rub is. The best way is to use a web application with a backend datastore that harnesses the ingame browser to track people. At the end of the week, payout should simply be a list of people and how much the corp owes them. Anything more on the corp officer's end is too much and often leads to burnout. |
Frothgar
V0LTA Verge of Collapse
28
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Posted - 2012.05.10 20:42:00 -
[36] - Quote
Its also worth saying, if you're having issues with people, its either because they aren't invested in your corp, or the corp isn't invested in them. It should be very easy to have good director coverage in the times things are being run. If your directors aren't the most connected, most active members of the corp, or even the ones most involved in running the sites, you have the wrong people running the corp.
Nobody wants to be in a corp where the directors are rarely on and they always make it clear that its "Their" corp. Good management is present, and connected, and if its doing its job well, people hardly notice becuase there part of the process, and feedback is immediate and automatic.
If you're having problems with people, its a people issue, and the difficulty lies either with you or them.
Not meaning to sound harsh, but good corp management can make boring things agreealbe, passive, and almost relaxing, and bad corp management can make fun things seem tedious, hostile, micromanaged and infuriating.
Example: Corp members running Gas sites and director chimes in "Where is my money biatch!!!" Bad management.
Example #2: Corp members running Gas sites, Director is on coms shooting the **** with them, harvesting the gas with them, talking about fleet comps, asking for ideas, immediately cashes out the corp members from the corp wallet as soon as the site is done. Good management.
Finally: Your corp doesn't mean your resources. There should be some pretty clear expectations as to what resources fall into the domain of the corp, and which things do not. If the corp is running sites in the corp's wormhole, then its beyond question the corp gets a cut.
If people want to run sites in your static, I think many folks will have differing opinions on if this is in the corp's domain, and if it would have the right to demand a cut. Granted if the corp is cashing out the op, then the corp should have a share (5%) but if people are just scanning down radar/mag sites in other people's wormholes, I think it might spark conflict to demand something that you effectively provided no services to earn.
Just my $1.99 |
Radelix Cisko
The Adjustment Team
90
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Posted - 2012.05.10 21:02:00 -
[37] - Quote
Frothgar wrote:
the previous text
I agree with what you said and I and the director have been making strides to have the hole feel like home. As I said earlier it is a transition time for the corp and in RL for some of the members with school and some are moving so availability is sometimes spotty. At least one of us tries to be on to be there to handle ops and general issues that arise. I have of course welcomed people gathering diversified skillsets. Also in relation to the one corp member whom I was having issues with has rectified the issue that the director and I took umbrage at.
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Terrorfrodo
Deep Space Darwinian Law Enforcement Agency
65
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Posted - 2012.05.10 21:16:00 -
[38] - Quote
7enn wrote:Spoke like a true senior guy that wants to keep the little guy down. Your blade is double edged, but perhaps you did not notice. As the little/new guy risks/needs little great risk to a great man should also mean little. Using percentages [the great equalizer of tyrants] the risk of a mere battleship to one so great and awesome as yourself should be of no consequence. The way you speak of your generosity toward your underlings makes me laugh. Fair is not divided or apportioned. Fair simply is. If you need to explain or justify fair.... it is not.
For those suffering under cyphered plex points or directors that have an odd sense of fair - hit me up via eve mail. Your noctis carries equal weight to my carrier/nightmare/nightmare where we fly free and fair.
My corpmates said something similar, so it was never done my way. Heh. Winner of elections banned, runner-up demoted by rest of the body, the council controlled by the losers. CSM 7 is illegitimate, CCP should remember when dealing with them. Remember what players voted for. |
Coolsmoke
State War Academy Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2012.05.11 03:45:00 -
[39] - Quote
Corp members on an op are responsible for divvying up their loot at the end. Corp buys all mnr's, datacores, relics etc. from them at 10% below Jita Buy price (saves them having to haul it) which we use for T3 production (ie. profit).
They sell the blue loot themselves.
Seems to work well, never a complaint in 3 years. |
Marsan
Production N Destruction INC.
29
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Posted - 2012.05.11 05:05:00 -
[40] - Quote
One way to prevent loot from being stolen is to put it in a small container, name it with the date (or what ever), then drop it in a corp hanger. Corp members need special rights to remove or open containers. |
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Comy 1
Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD.
121
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Posted - 2012.05.11 05:50:00 -
[41] - Quote
For a small tight corp you can probably pretty easily split almost everything equally, if nothing else have like max 2 or 3 stacks. Once you are out selling just use isk from the stack everyone worked for to buy any supplies.
If you are looking at a large organisation, I would probably make a "dkp site". Pretty easy to create a small database where you after each session can create an entry where you put in the ammount of each blue loot and nanoribbons you recieve. Lowball the value of the ribbons a bit, and make the form have checkboxes for every member or something.
Should be pretty easy to achieve. |
Lexylia
1ST GERMAN POPPLERS CORPORATION
5
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Posted - 2012.05.11 08:35:00 -
[42] - Quote
Someone of the pvefleet member loot all wracks put the whole loot into a secure container write all names on the cont who fly the site/sites put it into the co hangar.... ?????? after 1-2days Cashout - Tax (tax a bit high, because we get ammo(t2/faction/t1) /some t1 ships/ and t1-t2mods) for free |
Mr Bigwinky
4U Services Inc. Talocan United
227
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Posted - 2012.05.11 08:51:00 -
[43] - Quote
Corp members pay dues or get kicked (weeds out inactive, bad players anyway) All salvage gets given to directors who pay immediately via corp wallet with no tax. Loot then taken out when corp wallet requires ISK buffer to pay OPs again. (or at convenience)
Total amounts per player are decided on a wave basis (how many spawns they participated in) Welcome to EVE online, here's your rubix cube, go F*** yourself GÖÑ |
Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
36
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Posted - 2012.05.17 20:31:00 -
[44] - Quote
Radelix Cisko wrote:My corp has moved into a hole and we have expanded our ranks since moving in. We have various members on at various times due to members being based in either US Pacific time and US Eastern time (3 hour difference and half the people have full time jobs).
When it was my original crew which I work with most of them in RL we would run an op and I would run it out to a trade hub, sell, and split the sale less POS expenses. With the addition of the new members there have been issues of the corp not getting the cut it needs to stay running since corpies are not delivering the cut to the corp wallet.
So I ask how do you handle corp costs and payment to the corp members for ops?
Kick out the members not giving a cut to the corp wallet. WH life has to be done with people you trust.
What we do is run all loot to a can and dump it in. we have only a few people who handle salvage, and one person is responsible for sailing it. One corp wallet is setup for paying for fuel and other needs for the corp and it has a minimum balance. That balance must be met before anything is paid out. And any needs are purchased from that account. Thus members only get isk when the account is first topped back off.
The rest is split evenly across corp members on a one split per account approved to be in the wormhole basis. People who don't pull their weight get thrown out. |
Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
36
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Posted - 2012.05.17 20:32:00 -
[45] - Quote
Lexylia wrote:Someone of the pvefleet member loot all wracks put the whole loot into a secure container write all names on the cont who fly the site/sites put it into the co hangar.... ?????? after 1-2days Cashout - Tax (tax a bit high, because we get ammo(t2/faction/t1) /some t1 ships/ and t1-t2mods) for free
make a bookmark and put the names on the notes of the bookmark, drop the bookmark into the container.. You can get more names in the information that way, and your guy who handles payments can copy and paste the info easier. :) |
Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
36
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Posted - 2012.05.17 20:34:00 -
[46] - Quote
deathops barrett wrote:We normally split it by person
Salvager gets a equal share since they help get the loot faster. Scouts are normally my alt and another persons alt so they dont get extra isk since its same person, but otherwise we would give them a share.
We send a evemail to the directors with the tags/nanos from the sites we run and who was in the fleet, then when a director goes and sells the loot, he pays everyone in a fleet equally from nanos/tags equally and the metal scraps/other salvage are his to keep as payment for transporting the loot. I also throw the numbers into a public google docs so everyone can see it and say if they have a problem with the isk etc. and to make sure me/another director does a stupid thing and miscount... very fun to be missing 600m worth of loot because it was in the wrong tab and you are 20jumps from the hole.
We think differently about alts in our organization. SOMEONE has to scout if you're going to be safe. If the alt can be flown at the same time as the mission runner, we pay it. If you don't pay alts, that alt might as well go to high sec and run missions when the WH is out of sites to run, and then it's no use to the corporation. |
ROSSLINDEN0
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
34
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Posted - 2012.05.19 01:12:00 -
[47] - Quote
The way Aquila runs it is buy not taxing members anything for PVE they do outside of our home wh and when we do sites in home we count corp as a member of the fleet( richer members tend to not take a cut and it goes to corp).
We do take faction loot from our corp roams and capital mods from carriers we kill etc if there is like more than 5 ppl on km because its just not worth much when its split up and it pays for free tier 3's, recons, logi's, inties, bc ammo mods etc etc.
This way seems to be the best way iv seen if in honest, people get to keep whatever isk they get from PVE so get more isk and need to PVE less so are out looking for fights which keeps everyone happy and creates a good environment in corp but it does require yous to keep up the killing, if the wallet does drop a little low we just run 1 cap escalated site for corp which is 5 minutes of work and gets the corp a billion isk. |
Oxandrolone
Bite Me inc Exhale.
36
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Posted - 2012.05.19 22:50:00 -
[48] - Quote
we have a website while handles payout from sites.
corp taxes 10% of the isk made
each cap escalated site in a c5 is worth about 700m,
3-5 sites a day are run usually, 2.1-3.5bil made per day, so 210-350mil corp tax per day. the sites dont get run every day however so the income can be less. |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
6
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Posted - 2012.05.20 11:28:00 -
[49] - Quote
Mattalious wrote:We're a tiny corp so we generally don't have this kind of hassle. We just divvy up the loot on the day, and chip in on POS fuel when we need to. Everything else is on an individual basis. There'd be a lot of hassle otherwise when it came to splitting up the income. The only downside being that motivating people to scan can be an issue. It really is the least glorious job in the corp, and it's represented by the sheer amount of podding and poking that sometimes takes place to get people involved.
But then I wouldn't call us an A-typical corp, and more akin to friends who just hang and run sites together. We're about as chilled out as a corp can get, without being catatonic.
Seems reasonable to pay scanners a bit more since as you correctly point out it's a bit tedious to do, even with the streamlining of it. |
Zarak1 Kenpach1
Aperture Harmonics K162
43
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Posted - 2012.05.20 16:11:00 -
[50] - Quote
you dont
the time they spend by your side should be enrichment enough |
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Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
202
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Posted - 2012.05.20 16:21:00 -
[51] - Quote
This has been a very interesting thread. I had one thought that I figured I would throw out there.
I like the idea of a monthly "fee" for POS maintenance, rather than trying to tax sleeper loot, as it seems to be easier to manage and track overall. But with that model, it still seems that corps handle all of the sleeper loot fairly centrally, with designated people running it to market etc.
It seems to me that if you had a montly fee, and sites where then just paid to the participants, you could essentially leave it up to them. if a couple guys log in, and nobody else is around, they figure out how they want to split it, etc and it only really needs to be between them. Is there some unforseen issue with this that I am missing? |
Euthen Arran
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.05.20 16:42:00 -
[52] - Quote
^^Could lead to people forming cliques which are bad news for a corp.
i.e. cutting people out of lucrative sites, logging on to scan at off-times so they can scalp gas or run radars.
Now, there's nothing to stop that now, apart from teamwork, goodwill and the need for pvp backup etc. But once you tell them "pay x per month and what you do is your business" then people may take that as permission to blitz all the sites with their buddy. Not saying that's what will happen, but I think keeping a collective spirit going is very important in a Wh and I'm not sure that approach encourages it. |
Ashimat
Reconfiguration Nation Transmission Lost
20
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Posted - 2012.05.21 13:14:00 -
[53] - Quote
Euthen Arran wrote:^^Could lead to people forming cliques which are bad news for a corp.
i.e. cutting people out of lucrative sites, logging on to scan at off-times so they can scalp gas or run radars.
Now, there's nothing to stop that now, apart from teamwork, goodwill and the need for pvp backup etc. But once you tell them "pay x per month and what you do is your business" then people may take that as permission to blitz all the sites with their buddy. Not saying that's what will happen, but I think keeping a collective spirit going is very important in a Wh and I'm not sure that approach encourages it. What is the problem with people taking initiative and doing sites on their own or in small groups? Thats great. It's not like there is not enough sites to do.. if there is you have a bad match of corp-size/type of pilots and static and you should move.
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Mr Bigwinky
4U Services Inc. Talocan United
227
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Posted - 2012.05.21 15:51:00 -
[54] - Quote
Euthen Arran wrote:^^Could lead to people forming cliques which are bad news for a corp.
i.e. cutting people out of lucrative sites, logging on to scan at off-times so they can scalp gas or run radars.
Now, there's nothing to stop that now, apart from teamwork, goodwill and the need for pvp backup etc. But once you tell them "pay x per month and what you do is your business" then people may take that as permission to blitz all the sites with their buddy. Not saying that's what will happen, but I think keeping a collective spirit going is very important in a Wh and I'm not sure that approach encourages it. I'd be fairly impressed if a corp member and his buddy managed to blitz the sites in our C5 static Welcome to EVE online, here's your rubix cube, go F*** yourself GÖÑ |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
203
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Posted - 2012.05.21 16:12:00 -
[55] - Quote
Euthen Arran wrote:^^Could lead to people forming cliques which are bad news for a corp.
i.e. cutting people out of lucrative sites, logging on to scan at off-times so they can scalp gas or run radars.
Now, there's nothing to stop that now, apart from teamwork, goodwill and the need for pvp backup etc. But once you tell them "pay x per month and what you do is your business" then people may take that as permission to blitz all the sites with their buddy. Not saying that's what will happen, but I think keeping a collective spirit going is very important in a Wh and I'm not sure that approach encourages it.
i sort of get this, although not fully. Maybe I wasn't explaining my thoughts well enough.
In most of the post in this thread there seem to be 2 schools of thought.
1. Tax loot from sites run. 2. charge monthly "fee" dont tax site income.
Then there seems to be a second piece that is pretty common, which is to somehow organize loot based on fleet participants (put in can and name based on participants as an example)
Then a common final stage seems to be to collect loot for designated person (director etc) to haul out and sell loot, then split isk payouts.
The part I'm wondering is the last step.
If you only worry about a monthly corp fee for covering overhead costs, and already split loot by the fleet who ran it, why make someone else have to haul and sell? Obviously this can vary greatly by Corp/alliance size, and WH. With a C5 being harder on logistics so you likely want to coordinate market runs.
So I'm thinking in terms of a lower class WH type setup. maybe C2 static C3 or C4 static Cx.
In these cases if you have a group fleet up, run sites, why not just let them deal internally on who is going to ultimately run it to empire and sell, rather than have to put it somewhere for someone else to do it later?
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Radelix Cisko
The Adjustment Team
90
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Posted - 2012.05.21 16:53:00 -
[56] - Quote
Honestly I got a lot more mileage out of this thread than I thought I would. Since we recently moved into a C3 with LS exits the determination for who runs loot to market has been a fairly easy task to delegate. Those who can fly cloaky haulers are the ones tasked with running to market so that limits it to my alt and the director since we both own cranes. Additionally we have taken on an indy guy with a load of production skills so runs to empire are severely reduced since we can now manufacture most of what we need in the hole.
I also took the idea of a group spreadsheet that is still in the works to record ops. I got lucky that we are spreadsheets online fans. I may end up switching to the member fee model at a later time if it is prudent. In our case that may work better since my corp is really active. |
drdxie
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
85
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Posted - 2012.05.21 23:39:00 -
[57] - Quote
We split the loot at the end of each op, split is based on toon count and no RL person. Every toon in the hole has to contribute a specified amount of PI'd goods for fuel, once a month we do a fuel run for the ice products to make the blocks and each toon pays an equal share. The corp takes no tax or gets any share of profits made. An odd setup, but it works OK. Missile enhancers.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1235061& |
Bootleg Jack
Potters Field
82
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Posted - 2012.05.22 01:18:00 -
[58] - Quote
Dorn Val wrote:In our corp the loot is held by a director, and he keeps track of who was on the op. Once the loot is sold everyone gets paid a cut, and we have decided to give the corp a cut as well (so if 9 peeps were on an op the split would be 10 ways). We also run occasional ops just for the corp wallet. Our biggest problem with generating corp revenue is that we'd rather PVP, so sometimes we have to force ourselves to carebear for POS fuel :)
Hire carebears to farm the wh while you PvP...
I'm an American, English is my second language... |
Nashh Kadavr
Kadavr Black Guard
9
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Posted - 2012.05.22 09:37:00 -
[59] - Quote
our WH corp uses 'loot mails' to split fairly who has been responsible for collecting what loots. the corp takes a percentage to pay for pos fuel, ammo and basic modules and we have a ship replacement program of sorts.
loot mails are collected and registerd for each member then paid out at least twice a month, full receipts provided.
My Blog; http://nashh-blog.pvp101.net/
3rd Party; http://kadavr3rdparty.wordpress.com/
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Gul'gotha Derv'ash
Z3R0 RETURN MINING INC. Li3 Federation
12
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Posted - 2012.05.22 11:56:00 -
[60] - Quote
Sam Koli wrote:We normaly split per Player
mostly because of our social mindset
We count the salvager as full, because we clear a site in the Time he salvages. exept in very small fleets, we cut the split for the salvager.
the only one we never payed really were our scouts, how do you handle this. they don't really have to pay attention, just have to be there and watch a hole.
That scout watching the hole makes sure you make isk at site instead of taking a few billion loss in Tengu's...
If you have a dedicated scout he should be paid the same as everyone else. If you just have someone who is at the site on an alt watching the hole then no, he should only get the cut from the site once.
The best method I have seen so far is having a spread sheet set up with what items you can get. You turn everything in in at a set price and mark down what you put in, who was there, and the date. Then every week or two the corp pays out at a set price below Jita to account for the haulers doing the work of taking it in.
As for who gets paid what, it goes on a per person basis. If someone is doing the site and scouting he still only gets 1 cut. If a person is doing purely scouting or salvaging they get a cut as well because 1) the scout keeps us from taking huge huge losses and 2) the salvager collects what we get our money from. |
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