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Reverend Cletis
Synister Mynisters
6
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Posted - 2012.05.11 15:41:00 -
[31] - Quote
Me? I'll adapt.
If the game becomes no fun to play. I'll stop playing.
Pretty much like every other change that has come down the pipe. |
Samillian
Moonshine Industries
The Last Chancers.
141
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 15:46:00 -
[32] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote:I came into this forum hoping to gather support to fight the destruction of a style of gameplay for many, many players.
Clearly, I was wrong to expect it here.
I will cease to post in this thread.
When this part of the game is wiped out, and the null sec zealots are laughing at all the high sec industrialists, just remember this warning.
Even if I were to subscribe to your alarmist and overheated interpretation of the coming changes (which I don't) your attitude and manner are enough to destroy any support I would have possibly considered giving you.
You forget that many of the HiSec population be they manufacturers, traders and missioners are in fact themselves alts of Null sec and LowSec players and so when you hurl insults at "null sec zealots" and "sociopaths" you are undermining your own support with such bigotry.
I don't doubt this will fall of deaf ears, fanatics never listen. |
Salo Aldeland
Luma Operations
30
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Posted - 2012.05.11 15:55:00 -
[33] - Quote
Katja Faith wrote:IF ( and that's a big *IF*) T2 is no longer allowed in high I'm done. Trash everything (including those T2 BPOs, for you losers demanding they be removed), spend isk on a crap-ton of Machs and Nightmares, trash those, and destroy all toon on all four accounts. No rage, just a final step that would end my desire to play this game anymore. And yes, I'll be FRAPSing the whole thing for those interested. 
Instead of trashing the hulls, faction fit them and go suicide ganking. |
Haulie Berry
61
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 16:01:00 -
[34] - Quote
Katja Faith wrote:IF ( and that's a big *IF*) T2 is no longer allowed in high I'm done. Trash everything (including those T2 BPOs, for you losers demanding they be removed), spend isk on a crap-ton of Machs and Nightmares, trash those, and destroy all toon on all four accounts. No rage, just a final step that would end my desire to play this game anymore. And yes, I'll be FRAPSing the whole thing for those interested.
Okay, but... why?
I mean really, have you really considered just how this would affect you?
Hell, if you're building from BPOs? Bonus. Find a station in a nice quiet system off any major thoroughfare, move your BPOs there, contract your hauling out to Black Frog Freight and enjoy. |
Katja Faith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
83
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 16:38:00 -
[35] - Quote
If it does happen (and again, that's a big *IF*), I think it opens up the possibility for a fantastic new Alliance/Coalition to form whose main purpose would be Industry & Market driven, rather than the usual PVP-driven alliances. Obviously there would need to be member corps of pvp'ers for the dedicated pew, but the opportunity to train industry people (ie, carebears) for pvp in a learning environment would be fantastic. Setting aside the tools like the disgraced lawyer, the potential for a new power block in Eve that isn't all about scamming players and whoring KMs I think could make for a better game for everyone involved, but that's just my opinion.
Flaming welcome. |
Andy DelGardo
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2012.05.11 17:31:00 -
[36] - Quote
In my opinion the effect will simply be that T2 gets a lot more expansive, since i personally would just join a bigger indy corp and rent a 0.0 system from a alliance. Than u simply factor in the JF cost for logistic + system rental fee's and add those to the final sell price. I don't really care this much either way since actually i'm a producer and just hand the added cost to the consumer :)
Since the existing 0.0 corps also have to JF there stuff, we end up having just to divide the monthly 0.0 system rental fees, by the number of producers aka used moons in a corp. I mainly suspect that close to highsec and very quite, safe systems will be more expansive to rent than boarder systems or systems that frequently change ownership.
I also predict much higher price fluctuations, since the entry barrier and logistic's are more complex and supply, demand cant perfectly balance itself this way. Since as example it might only be "economical" to JF once or twice a week, so u cant react this fast on supply, demand and also if u do an logistic error u cant simply correct it the next day.
bye Andy |
sg1jack
The Omega Particle
1
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Posted - 2012.05.11 18:29:00 -
[37] - Quote
Ersteen Hofs wrote:Quote:I have built T2 in high sec for some time and I can't see what mechanisim could be used to move it out of high sec. well it's easily done actually. 1. remove all t2 capabilities from current POS equipment and NPC stations. this includes the ability to install t2 BP for manufacturing and invention slots. 2. add new anchorable POS structures that have invention slots and t2 manufacturing slots. make these modules only anchorable in low sec or lower, like reactor arrays right now. what's so hard about it?
My bad what I meant was what reason could they use in game that would make sense in a lore kinda way. |
Katja Faith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
83
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Posted - 2012.05.11 18:49:00 -
[38] - Quote
sg1jack wrote:Ersteen Hofs wrote:Quote:I have built T2 in high sec for some time and I can't see what mechanisim could be used to move it out of high sec. well it's easily done actually. 1. remove all t2 capabilities from current POS equipment and NPC stations. this includes the ability to install t2 BP for manufacturing and invention slots. 2. add new anchorable POS structures that have invention slots and t2 manufacturing slots. make these modules only anchorable in low sec or lower, like reactor arrays right now. what's so hard about it? My bad what I meant was what reason could they use in game that would make sense in a lore kinda way.
CCP Games makes the game, they make the rules. If they want to change the rules, they can do so without explaining it to anyone. And let's face it, the "lore" background for this game is anecdotal, certainly not something that can be relied upon for and firm foundation. |
Derglas Servekti
Twilight Labs
Unsung Voices
0
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Posted - 2012.05.11 18:49:00 -
[39] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote:You have to be pretty naive to believe that Soundwave and the rest of his null sec buddies are not coming after high sec T2 production in it's entirety.
...and you have to be pretty paranoid to take Soundwave's statements and conclude from it that all of CCP is on a mission to gut highsec in favor of nullsec. |
Katja Faith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
83
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Posted - 2012.05.11 18:53:00 -
[40] - Quote
Derglas Servekti wrote:Vince Snetterton wrote:You have to be pretty naive to believe that Soundwave and the rest of his null sec buddies are not coming after high sec T2 production in it's entirety. ...and you have to be pretty paranoid to take Soundwave's statements and conclude from it that all of CCP is on a mission to gut highsec in favor of nullsec.
Events (and CCP statements) have clearly demonstrated that they want people OUT of high sec and into null. I've said this before: if they want to castrate high sec, they need to just end it. Period. No more screwing around, no more inane taxes, no more pro-Alliance (ie, pro-null) rules, just kill it. Wake up tomorrow, you're in -.3 system. Sansha won, it's now a lawless universe, the lunatics run the asylum. |
Derglas Servekti
Twilight Labs
Unsung Voices
0
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Posted - 2012.05.11 18:53:00 -
[41] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:Labeling people "sociopaths" and "zealots" because they enjoy a different playstyle than you do is ridiculous and infantile and isn't going to win you much support.
...how do you feel about labelling people who enjoy a different playstyle as "pubbies", "noobs", "whiners", and all sorts of other derisive terms?
The one thing that all EVE players agree upon is that "people who like to play this game differently from me are paying it wrong and need to be insulted".
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Derglas Servekti
Twilight Labs
Unsung Voices
0
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Posted - 2012.05.11 18:57:00 -
[42] - Quote
Katja Faith wrote:Events (and CCP statements) have clearly demonstrated that they want people OUT of high sec and into null.
This statement requires more support than straight assertion with the adverb 'clearly". It seems to be a statement of faith on the part of many; I'm far more skeptical. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
Situation: Normal
193
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Posted - 2012.05.11 19:39:00 -
[43] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:Stella SGP wrote:So first you start of your post with such a strong STATEMENT on a piece of information which you have clearly misinterpreted..... NICE!
Then you go on to claim that you have NO CLUE about what your statement was about, then you went on to IMAGINE how it was going to be done..... NICE!
Let me start a thread on something totally imaginary and just claim that it was a statement from a random Dev..... NICE!
I like the way you think! +1 Amazing 17 replies already based on some phantom citation from a Dev that the OP has yet to actually produce. You want the citation? Post #88 in this thread. This IS happening. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=101697&p=5
Hey and it only took you 21 posts to finally put it up. |
Avvalina
DVA Enterprises
1
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Posted - 2012.05.11 19:49:00 -
[44] - Quote
I and my alts vote 'against' movement of T2 production into low/null sec. |
Salo Aldeland
Luma Operations
30
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Posted - 2012.05.11 20:14:00 -
[45] - Quote
CCP can do all it likes to make null sec more lucrative than high sec, but I don't really see how it will tip the scales for the average high sec citizen. The impression I have is there's very little hope trying to get very far in null without being part of a substantial group, and to a lot of people the existing groups are really not all that appealing. People aren't going to move out and join a null sec organization if they don't like the culture, no matter how much ISK they stand to make. And they're not going to go out and strike it on their own just to be hopelessly crushed.
Personally, I've avoided null because I've spent way too much time on other MMO's arguing with internet **** heads, not because the rewards aren't worth it or the risk is too great. I'm less enthusiastic about the quality of my spare time depending on a bunch of other people having their **** together than I once was. High sec is a little more boring, a little safer than I'd really like, but at least it gives me the liberty to do pretty much whatever I like anytime I feel like it. I'd probably be interested in moving if I could find an accommodation that lets me operate more or less independently, but as of right now there isn't any real reason for me to go looking for one. |
Telchin Dai
TarNec
1
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Posted - 2012.05.11 20:59:00 -
[46] - Quote
"We want to move T2 production more towards low and zero-sec" != "We are preventing ANY T2 from being made in highsec. |
Stella SGP
208
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Posted - 2012.05.12 02:40:00 -
[47] - Quote
Vince Snetterton wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:Stella SGP wrote:So first you start of your post with such a strong STATEMENT on a piece of information which you have clearly misinterpreted..... NICE!
Then you go on to claim that you have NO CLUE about what your statement was about, then you went on to IMAGINE how it was going to be done..... NICE!
Let me start a thread on something totally imaginary and just claim that it was a statement from a random Dev..... NICE!
I like the way you think! +1 Amazing 17 replies already based on some phantom citation from a Dev that the OP has yet to actually produce. You want the citation? Post #88 in this thread. This IS happening. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=101697&p=5
I don't get it. How is it happening? All that was said is in the context of moving Datacores down to Low-sec, so that FW can influence T2 production. How is that in any way removing T2 production from Hi-sec?
Was there mention of removing the ability to invent in Hi-sec? No...
Anyone said you can no longer install T2 production jobs in Hi-sec? No...
Please enlighten me, who said anything about removing T2 production from Hi-sec and how it might be done. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
1361
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 09:06:00 -
[48] - Quote
Stella SGP wrote:So first you start of your post with such a strong STATEMENT on a piece of information which you have clearly misinterpreted..... NICE!
CCP Soundwave wants to move T2 production to low sec and null sec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1230077#post1230077
The qualifier "more" doesn't mean he's not going to do it. Here are ways to move it "more" to low or null, as have already been suggested:
- In keeping with previous statements about moving activities from NPCs to Players, reduce or eliminate the number of NPC invention slots
- Add non-hisec restrictions to POS modules required for T2 production
- Review the functionality of certain POS modules, such as leaving invention slots only in the Advanced Mobile Laboratory and Hyasyoda Mobile Laboratory, and make those structures only anchor able outside hisec
These suggestions are only speculation, but the fact remains that CCP Soundwave has indicated the desire to move T2 production "more" to non-hisec. What portions of T2 production are possible in hisec at present? Those are the parts of the production chain that will be impacted.
So in T2 production we have:
- Datacores
- Invention
- Moon goo + reactions
- T2 component production
- T2 item production
T2 components and items can be produced in a Component Assembly Array. At present there is no restriction on the security level of a system that you anchor a Component Assembly Array in (witness the "Restricted to Security Level Less Than" attribute of the Moon Harvesting Array).
So Component Assembly Arrays would be trivially modified to operate in 0.4 and below.
How difficult would it be to restrict all NPC manufacturing slots to T1 production only?
How difficult would it be to remove NPC manufacturing slots (say, to only provide slots at School and Assembly stations)?
This is, of course, all speculation. But the driver behind the speculation is "moving T2 production more to low/null sec". Given the portions of the production chain already restricted to non-hisec, what is left? Only research and component assembly.
|
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
1361
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 09:23:00 -
[49] - Quote
Stella SGP wrote:Was there mention of removing the ability to invent in Hi-sec? No...
Anyone said you can no longer install T2 production jobs in Hi-sec? No...
Please enlighten me, who said anything about removing T2 production from Hi-sec and how it might be done.
Its amazing how a simple piece of information can be twisted to your favored POV.
It's amazing how much you can glean from a simple statement of "moving production more to low/null sec" once you realise that this means "away from hisec", especially when you look at how much of T2 production can be done in hisec. You just have to use your brain, abandon your preconceptions, and dismiss your state of denial for long enough to think clearly.
So stop thinking, "where does he say what he's going to do" and start thinking, "how is he going to achieve what his stated goal is?" |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
1361
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 09:33:00 -
[50] - Quote
Avvalina wrote:I and my alts vote 'against' movement of T2 production into low/null sec.
GÇ£The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.GÇ¥ GÇö Ambassador Kosh, Babylon 5
|
Steijn
Quay Industries
46
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Posted - 2012.05.12 09:34:00 -
[51] - Quote
If this goes ahead as mentioned then I can see some just taking it in their stride and continuing, but others will no longer have any interest in T2 invention/manufacturing. I would therefore hope that CCP have something in place for refunding SP for those who no longer wish to do anything related to the T2 production, but have invested time and money into acquiring the relevent skills. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
1361
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 09:36:00 -
[52] - Quote
Steijn wrote:I would therefore hope that CCP have something in place for refunding SP for those who no longer wish to do anything related to the T2 production.
Just like we got refunds on high speed navigation when the nano nerf came around? Or we got refunds on Electronic Warfare when ECM was nerfed?
I wouldn't hold my breath  |
Steijn
Quay Industries
46
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Posted - 2012.05.12 09:50:00 -
[53] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Steijn wrote:I would therefore hope that CCP have something in place for refunding SP for those who no longer wish to do anything related to the T2 production. Just like we got refunds on high speed navigation when the nano nerf came around? Or we got refunds on Electronic Warfare when ECM was nerfed? I wouldn't hold my breath
Neither will I, but the end result will show wether CCP actually cares about its subscribers or wether they are just looked upon as a $$$$$$ machine.
Im certain a fair number of people would not have trained certain skills with regards to T2 production if when they started the game, it had then been in low/null only. So to basically say to these people, 'we are now moving it, if you dont like it, tough, but thanks for the cash', is a kick in the teeth imo.
By all means change it, but give people the ability to use the SP to retrain something which is now appropriate to them. |
Ersteen Hofs
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2012.05.12 10:54:00 -
[54] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:
This is, of course, all speculation. But the driver behind the speculation is "moving T2 production more to low/null sec". Given the portions of the production chain already restricted to non-hisec, what is left? Only research and component assembly.
the action of moving datacores to low sec is the movement he mentioned.
the completion of this process would be elimination of research agent system entirely and hence fully relying on fw to generate datacores.
were there any indication about his intent to also restrict manufacturing/invention to non nisec? this is entirely different step in my opinion. |
clixor
Celluloid Gurus
19
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 12:30:00 -
[55] - Quote
I find it a bit amusing that with every change people are crying that they want their SP reimbursed. Even aside the fact that the entry barrier for t2 is in most cases identical with T1, the skills themselves are not becoming useless. You can do exactly the same activities after the projected changes, you only need to adapt (i.e. moving to lo/null, or organizing in bigger corps).
Players do remain with the choice to continue with T2. This will require more effort, but the rewards will likely also increase.
Personally i welcome the requirement for inventors etc. to have more interaction with other players, as it stands now the whole profession is mainly reserved for the more autistic players in EVE. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex
Cosmic Consortium
1362
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 13:13:00 -
[56] - Quote
Ersteen Hofs wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:
This is, of course, all speculation. GǪ
the action of moving datacores to low sec is the movement he mentioned.
Oh? Do you have a source for that claim?
The statement about wanting to move T2 production more to low sec happened in the thread about data core production being moved to research-with-guns. So it is quite clear to me that data core production is not the end of his "make low sec matter" campaign. If he'd phrased that statement along the lines of, "we wanted to move GǪ" the implication would be that what they wanted to do has been done. Instead the statement is "we want to move GǪ" implying that what has been done is only part of a greater plan.
Feel free to live in denial and refuse to believe that CCP Soundwave wants to do anything more with moving T2 production to lowsec.
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Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
58
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Posted - 2012.05.12 18:25:00 -
[57] - Quote
Mara Rinn, I used to get a chuckle out of your histrionic hyperbole, but now it is getting tedious. Welcome to my block list.
"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
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Stella SGP
208
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Posted - 2012.05.12 18:48:00 -
[58] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Stella SGP wrote:Was there mention of removing the ability to invent in Hi-sec? No...
Anyone said you can no longer install T2 production jobs in Hi-sec? No...
Please enlighten me, who said anything about removing T2 production from Hi-sec and how it might be done.
Its amazing how a simple piece of information can be twisted to your favored POV. It's amazing how much you can glean from a simple statement of "moving production more to low/null sec" once you realise that this means "away from hisec", especially when you look at how much of T2 production can be done in hisec. You just have to use your brain, abandon your preconceptions, and dismiss your state of denial for long enough to think clearly. So stop thinking, "where does he say what he's going to do" and start thinking, "how is he going to achieve what his stated goal is?" Remember, as a Goon-owned developer CCP Soundwave's priority is to provide the means for Goonswarm to entirely control the game. By forcing T2 production out into low sec, CCP Soundwave ensures that the entire T2 production chain falls into the world of capital and super capital ships. No longer will small corporations be able to put up a single POS and do their own thing. People wishing to partake in T2 production will need to seek protection from whomever lays claim to the space they wish to use. If you're lucky, you'll be able to influence the local militia to install cynojamming. Ultimately you'll end up joining the militia and losing access to your POS any time the local sovereignty changes. On the one hand, the need to fight to defend the play style you like is awesome. On the other, it's going to be bloody infuriating for people who don't want to spend four hours a day logged in to the game just to ensure their low sec system stays cynojammed.
So you are 'pre-emptively' whining about moving T2 production out of hi-sec based on some extremely wild speculation because he used the word "more".
OK I guess its everyone's right to pony up fantasies and present them on the forum as if they were fact that have already been announced by Devs.
There is a difference between using your brain for whats real and using it to imagine stuff and thinking its real. |
Lady Starfire
State War Academy
Caldari State
29
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 18:51:00 -
[59] - Quote
Seems more like he wants:
Low sec aka faction warfare to make the datacore through pvp.
High sec to do the research to make the BPCs
Null sec to produce the moon goo needed.
Thus you don't have production all in one spot, you have the datacores in low sec the moon stuff in 0.0 and it all being mashed together in high. |
Zhade Lezte
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
34
|
Posted - 2012.05.12 19:46:00 -
[60] - Quote
The thing I heard a while ago was that they were considering buffing invention chances in nullsec to give it a niche. Hisec is even now the best for T1 as the masses of minerals can be moved easily, WH is the best for T3 for obvious reasons, and null would supposedly be the best for T2.
Something that a lot of hiseccers are ignorant of is how badly station mechanics in NPC outposts hinder nullsec manufacturing. A lot of stuff needs to be done in two or even three stations (refining, laboratory, manufacturing), and carting stuff around in a freighter is a lot less of a big deal than in hisec. With this and the troubles of importing lowend minerals, even goons that do manufacturing often just do it on hisec alts.
Buffing invention chance isn't even much of a way to address these problems, and I'm not sure how much it'll even matter as it'll just mean T2 BPCs being made in null and sold to highsec manufacturers. It may actually be a significant thing if the FW changes to datacores increase their costs, as right now the biggest costs in T2 production tend to be the manufacturing costs. I'm sure there's a couple exceptions I'm not aware of but vOv
anyways back to the sky is falling the sky is falling  |
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