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Armon Deacon
Amarr
Mining Corporation
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Posted - 2009.05.20 17:38:00 -
[1]
I'd love to start eve, unfortunately its to late for new players.
I tried eve, but there is no way for me to compete.
No matter what you do, you will never be able to compete with veterans.
You simply cant catch up.
These are just a few of the comments I saw over at MMORPG.com in reference to eve, and Im sure like myself most of you have friends or family that have said similar comments. I always said to my friends that it wasnt true but it was always a argument, something that couldnt exactly be proven... till now.
Project BeliEvE is the direct response to my brother saying "Prove it" when I told him a new toon could have a chance in EvE. The project will track my progress on a completely new character with no outside funding through pvp.
So far, its off to an interesting start.
Check it out
---------------------sig------------------
EvE BeliEvE project.
Can a new player compete in EvE? |
Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.05.20 17:43:00 -
[2]
Life happens quicker than you'd believe... Tell your brother he's envying the seniors at the retirement home.
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Ehranavaar
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Posted - 2009.05.20 17:45:00 -
[3]
if it's so hopeless for new pilots it does seem odd so many people are starting them.
remember you can only get so good at anything in the game and it doesn't take forever to get that good. you'll not match the breadth of skills an older player has but you can certainly match the depth in the areas you care about.
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Aidan King
Caldari
Einherjar Rising
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.05.20 17:45:00 -
[4]
I look at it this way. You have to Specialize from the start. Interceptors for example. There are only so many points/skills you can allocate towards flying an interceptor. You may only have 10m skill points .. but if they are all focused on one task ... then your the same as the guy with 60m skill points ( In that particular ship ).
Sure its going to take a few months to get there. But that is the same in all MMORPG. You still have to level up or grind the gear before you can compete.
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Euriti
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.05.20 17:47:00 -
[5]
See: Goonswarm
______________________________________________
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Darkerz Reloaded
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.05.20 17:52:00 -
[6]
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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Zzzyxas
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Posted - 2009.05.20 17:54:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Darkerz Reloaded
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
try Training Reading Lvl 1 Plz, he is saying new Pilots CAN compete.
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Darkerz Reloaded
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.05.20 17:56:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Zzzyxas
Originally by: Darkerz Reloaded
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
try Training Reading Lvl 1 Plz, he is saying new Pilots CAN compete.
It takes a while ok, im a new player and i cant catch up with the vets who have reading lvl 5 
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Corduroy Rab
Chaos Reborn
Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.05.20 17:59:00 -
[9]
Hey I am a vet and apparently I only got reading up to about lvl 3 since it took me reading it twice before I got it 
I will be interested to see what you find, also @ OP for guys like me maybe you should put quotes around those first few comments to help us out... i feel so dumb
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Full Impact
Universal-Corp
Nexus-Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.20 18:00:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Armon Deacon
I'd love to start eve, unfortunately its to late for new players.
I tried eve, but there is no way for me to compete.
No matter what you do, you will never be able to compete with veterans.
You simply cant catch up.
These are just a few of the comments I saw over at MMORPG.com in reference to eve, and Im sure like myself most of you have friends or family that have said similar comments. I always said to my friends that it wasnt true but it was always a argument, something that couldnt exactly be proven... till now.
Project BeliEvE is the direct response to my brother saying "Prove it" when I told him a new toon could have a chance in EvE. The project will track my progress on a completely new character with no outside funding through pvp.
So far, its off to an interesting start.
Check it out
Interesting project, but unless you can wipe all the knowledge you have about game mechanics, ingame politics, etc, then you already have a huge advantage over a new player.
A fairer way to do the project would be to fund your brothers game time through plex and then process the results.
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skeljita
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Posted - 2009.05.20 18:02:00 -
[11]
If you are that concerned with being behind in skill points, take your character, make a couple billion, buy a character with more skill points.
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Armon Deacon
Amarr
Mining Corporation
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Posted - 2009.05.20 18:03:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Armon Deacon on 20/05/2009 18:06:39
Edited by: Armon Deacon on 20/05/2009 18:05:44
Originally by: skeljita
If you are that concerned with being behind in skill points, take your character, make a couple billion, buy a character with more skill points.
Read the post please
Originally by: Full Impact
Interesting project, but unless you can wipe all the knowledge you have about game mechanics, ingame politics, etc, then you already have a huge advantage over a new player.
A fairer way to do the project would be to fund your brothers game time through plex and then process the results.
I have very little pvp exp at all, and in the 5 years I have had a eve account, I have 10 months game time, and none of that was consecutive. So, while I have a slight edge, its not huge.
I also started a new race, which I never played and have little knowledge off, lasers are rather new to me. But, this experiment is to prove a new character can do it, I am more than willing to give my info to friends and family who are struggling due to lack of knowledge, this is about possibilities with them
Edited original post for those who only read the first 4 lines before becoming enraged =)
---------------------sig------------------
EvE BeliEvE project.
Can a new player compete in EvE? |
Corduroy Rab
Chaos Reborn
Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.05.20 18:09:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Armon Deacon
Edited original post for those who only read the first 4 lines before becoming enraged =)
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.05.20 18:14:00 -
[14]
The correct answer is: Yes and No.
When I started some four years ago I read the exact same statement, "the skill gap can never be closed!"
And it is true in a way, the older player will always have more skill points than the newer, but the number of skills affecting any one occupation is finite so it is perfectly plausible to match anyone in any given field.
What this means is that a new player can be just as good as an old geezer in a specific field (frigate/cruiser combat for instance).
This actually works out well since the general consensus is to start small (frigates), to learn the ropes as it were, while skills increase enough to make cruisers and later battlecruisers/BS viable.
This game of ours really gets good when two equally skilled pilots duke it out. Fights like that are often decided by the players (as opposed to the characters) understanding of the game and tactics used.
One might say that the new players got a leg up with Quantum Rise. Frigates are now far more capable of killing cruisers and larger by orbiting under the guns of a victim/client, making the "Time to Pwn!" shorter.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2009.05.20 18:28:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Full Impact
Interesting project, but unless you can wipe all the knowledge you have about game mechanics, ingame politics, etc, then you already have a huge advantage over a new player.
Isn't that really the point? It shows that your ability in EVE is largely bounded by your own learning and not the skill-training mechanic. That blows the entire "you can never catch up" argument out of the water by saying you can catch up and your rate of learning will be the biggest factor in how fast.
I did something similar last year where myself and a few friends started new characters and went head-first into PvP. We were successful in both making isk from the market to fund losses and scoring kills without exceeding a million skillpoints.
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el caido
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.05.20 21:32:00 -
[16]
I will save you a lot of time: you can. 
This isn't Skills Online or ISK Online or Capitals Online ... there so many paths to travel; anyone can be successful depending on how they gauge their success.
Tell your brother that he's a f*cking moron and be done with it. This game is obviously not meant for everyone.
Cute blog, though. Hopefully it helps inspire others who are daunted at first.
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randomname4me
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Posted - 2009.05.20 21:40:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Euriti
See: Goonswarm
See Goonswarm pod.
Pod Goonswarm pod...
I dont now it just hit me
EVE Online: Rated RRR- For Explicit Breakfast Piercing Bullets. |
Emerhyz
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Posted - 2009.05.20 21:50:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Emerhyz on 20/05/2009 21:51:11
@ OP,
You are comparing too many variables at once. Try a fleet of new pilots vs a fleet of vet pilots. I'm just saying, if you want to test out the sp differences, keep all variables the same. Looking at your kills, most were do to your tech 2 pilots.
When it comes to pvp, you can have anyone be a point. Imagine 20 new pilots with velators. That's 20 Points and 40 drones.
Again, try it again, but keep your variables the same, except the one your comparing, skill points.
EDIT:
@ OP's brother;
Ask him to list all games where new characters CAN compete with VET's. MMORPGS ^_^ in pvp.
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Tractormech
Caldari
Fortune's Fools
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Posted - 2009.05.20 22:48:00 -
[19]
My level 35 dwarf paladin dies to every level 80 epic geared rogue I fight. New players just cant catch up.
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Eri Chell
Caldari
Bellum Corpus
DEEP SPACE CONSORTIUM.
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Posted - 2009.05.21 00:15:00 -
[20]
A. You will NEVER catch up to the older players, that just a fact.
B. You dont have to to enjoy eve, there a bunch of other newbs around you.
C. CRY SOME MORE!!
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Ticarus Hellbrandt
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Posted - 2009.05.21 00:22:00 -
[21]
once you play for a year you get most of the basic skills and other skills to fly better ships, you become average. it is possible to catch older players, it just takes time and brainpower
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Lady Karma
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Posted - 2009.05.21 00:27:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Eri Chell
A. You will NEVER catch up to the older players, that just a fact.
B. You dont have to to enjoy eve, there a bunch of other newbs around you.
C. CRY SOME MORE!!
A. This is bad example. You can only be frigate 5, with small gun spec 5, so a noob in couple of months can be as good as 5 year vet in one ship class.
B. It's very easy to kill older players.
C. You is idiot
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Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.05.21 00:31:00 -
[23]
"You only reach 10mill sp once"
Its all relative. A Veteran will be able to do more but that doesn't mean he can do it more effectively. Once a vet has maxed the relative skills for something, there is no other way he can become more effective without spending excess amounts of isk. And luckily, most dont bother with that anyway (though there are the few who do so regularly).
More often than not, they move onto a new ship, which trains different skills that do not effect the previous one in area's other than core skills.
___________________________________________
Haruhiist since December 2008
^Third Times a Charm^ |
k'nah Manaan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.21 00:49:00 -
[24]
I like it, and your blog was well written. I will be following your adventures with intrest.
Good Luck
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dankness420
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Posted - 2009.05.21 00:54:00 -
[25]
ruining your plan by sending you isk
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Armon Deacon
Amarr
Mining Corporation
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Posted - 2009.05.21 00:59:00 -
[26]
appreciate the isk donation, forwarding it to another toon. Ill definitely take money, just wont use it for this toon =)
---------------------sig------------------
EvE BeliEvE project.
Can a new player compete in EvE? |
DrSeuss
Gallente
Phoenix Propulsion Labs
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Posted - 2009.05.21 01:44:00 -
[27]
No, a new player cannot (and should never) be able to compete with a player who has been in game for 5 years.
However that is the problem, people need to stop playing this game with the "What I can do" mindset. This is a game for teamwork, if you cannot work with others as a group you loose.
.
Everyone knows the only true wisdom is on T-Shirts |
Sidrat Flush
Caldari
Life is Experience
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Posted - 2009.05.21 03:12:00 -
[28]
I haven't read even the OP, I just wanted to let you all know that the title made me want to listen to Bruce ****enson (from Iron Maiden) Believil track from his solo album.
Thank you.
I tried to type what I heard from the lyrics but it would have been ridiculous.
EXP-L Eve Industrial Organiser |
Janu Hull
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.05.21 03:20:00 -
[29]
A new player who has half a brain will realize that they can catch up to a veteran player in very little time.
Consider: Skill progression from one level to the next is exponential.
For the most basic skills, you can train level I in 15 minutes to 45 minutes. Level II is seldom more than a few hours to half a day. Level III a couple days to a week, level IV just over a week maybe a month at the highest levels. In the time it takes to train a skill from level III to level IV, another new player can train three to five skills to level III.
When you consider the time from level IV to level V, it gets even more impressive. Level V skills can take anywhere from a couple weeks to several MONTHS, even nearly a year to train. One skill, so demanding of time, that for just that extra few percentage points of performance, that a new player could go from day one rookie to fully competent tech II 0.0 PVP raider.
Diminishing returns, children, diminishing returns. Veteran skillpoint totals may look impressive on the surface, but just beneath, its a VERY different picture.
In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
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OT Smithers
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Posted - 2009.05.21 03:47:00 -
[30]
New player here.
Obviously there is no question as to whether or not a new player can eventually compete in terms of any one narrow career path. Some have mentioned frigates as an example, saying correctly that a five year vet and a few month old noob might well be relatively equal in terms of their frigate skill.
This is nice but completely misses the point. The noob in his tech 1 frigate fitted with tech 1 mods is not facing vets in tech 1 frigates and mods. He is facing off against vets in tech 2 heavy assault ships and battlecruisers and battleships, and while he knows intellectually that he might EVENTUALLY match that vets skills in those ships as well, by the time he does (perhaps a year or two or three down the line) those same vets might well be flying tech 4 ships. And until he does match them he doesn't have a hope in hell of killing them. The game is coded this way.
New players like myself apparently have only a few choices. We can:
1. Hide in high sec and not actually play the game.
2. Go to low sec and spend those "training" months or years playing rabbit -- running the second you see anyone, and knowing that the only people you can possibly hurt are people even newer than you who happened to accidently wander your way.
3. Join a PvP corp if they will let you. Instead of running and hiding you get the "honor" of playing corp mascot, towelboy, and fluffer. You can "tackle" the enemy and perhaps hold him long enough for your buddies to get the kill. You'll die of course, but as a noob that's your right and proper place -- dying so that your betters might score a victory.
So yes, technically a new player can compete in some mythical once in a blue moon way, and perhaps relatively quickly, but in practical terms the entrance curve for this game isn't a curve at all, it's a straight up vertical climb.
The question is: does this sound FUN. And the answer, apparently for a lot of folks, is no.
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