Originally by: Fourty Niner

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So to the point. The reson t3 stuff is so expensive is because the good combat SP pilots who are getting the stuff to make the t3 parts to make the t3 compounents to make the t3 subsytems to make the t3 ships, dont have the industrial skills to do so. And are unwilling to sell on the market what they see as a money cow.

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Originally by: Miyamoto Uroki

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Originally by: iudex

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Command ships > or = T3 cruisers
but
T3 cruiser cost > command ship cost

For the homo oeconomicus type of player t3 cruisers are a no-buyer if it remains above command ship price.
If the price go down, the homo eoconomicus type of isk-maker won't do wormholes due lack of comparable profitability (Akita T's argument).
Solution: Bring T3 BC or BS into play.
IF T3 BC/BS > as T2BC/BS, mission-runners will come into play. Mission-runners are willing to pay lot's of isk if they get a little more efficient mission-running tool for their highsec mission-running. They pay several billions for officer launcher/damage-mods, some of the shield-booster go for over 2 billion etc. Cost doesn't matter if it helps doing missions faster, since they don't expect to lose the investment.
Then you have a price built by demand and supply - and not one that is capped by a cheaper substitute good like the command ship. Charge 5 billion for the T3 BS if its better for mission-running - and they'll pay it if your the only one who offers it.
Result: T3 production is boost, T3 buyers are happy.

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I hope the whole post is sarcasm, as it's utter crap tbh ^^

This is exactly the wrong approach type that drove the eve economy in it's crippled state that it's currently in.
Mission runner don't need any more effective mission ships. lvl 4 missions still need a nerf, that's part of the solution for wormhole expeditions.

Like Akita said, the resources for a tech3 cruiser simply take way too long to gather. As time is isk, it becomes too expensive as everybody compares his income at a risk vs reward level, and usually lvl 4 missions come out on top of this (which needs a goddamn nerf, grow some balls cpp...)

Really I cannot understand why it is so hard for ccp to do the math. Or if they have done the math, why not publish your math here on the forums and the reason why you are still waiting and doing nothing. As long as there is no response, it's simple: everyone has the (rightfully) opinion that ccp isn't capable of doing the math, maybe because they dont have employees that are playing the game that much as their customers are.

Listen to the complains about this issue, Ccp, they are damn reasonable. And where the **** is your economist hiding again?...

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Originally by: Fourty Niner

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Maybe it is only my corp, but with us it went like this.....
We have cart loads of salavge, gas, gas products, broken sleeper stuff, and its taking us ages to get the skills to do anything with them. Each time we get to the next level of production, we think, hangon why not wait till we get to the next level.

I expect that soon a lot of finished t3 systems will satrt hitting the market, from others in our position

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Originally by: Akita T

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Originally by: I SoStoned

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difficulty = scarcity

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I beg to differ.
It doesn't matter how difficult it is to obtain, it only matters how PROFITABLE it is to obtain, adjusted for risk.
Right now, all but the most difficult areas in w-space are barely more profitable than L4 highsec mission-running, so it's only natural almost nobody bothers.
Bump up drop rates up a lot, individual component prices (and therefore final T3 price) will drop a lot too, but the profitability per expedition will go up, and supply will go up a lot more than the drop in price (also, demand will skyrocket due to heavily decreased prices), reaching another equilibrium where T3 prices are affordable, adoption levels are high and w-space is profitable to be in... even if it's hard to complete and risky as hell.

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Originally by: Solid Prefekt

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Edited by: Solid Prefekt on 22/05/2009 04:59:14
First off, I am not an industrialist and am not speaking from that point of view. For all I know they could LOVE T3 production and the current progress of production.

However, for me as a pure PVP pilot that was thrilled about the concept of T3 ships when it was first announced, I am sorely dissapointed. I considered T3 much more then all the other ship releases (like the Marauder, Black Ops, and EA Ships) and really expected to see a lot more by now at reasonable prices. I am more then willing to lose SP to fly the ship, but I simply can't afford the ISK to fly the ship in PVP. Am I supposed to wait another 6 months for the price to drop to fly it?

And I do not need nor want an explanation of why they are still so expensive. If you tell me then you are not understanding my post.

If you are happy with T3 ships then more power to you. For me though, the T3 ships has been a HUGE let down. So, am I the only one thinking this or do others feel the same way?

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Quote:

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WRONG.
Someone above got it correct. If you havent tried a 0.0 (and I emphasize 0.0) wh then really you have no position to comment on how easy/hard it is to get items out of those wh's to make the components (not only that but your whole comment on the drop ratio increasing the profitability per expedition is wrong too - but that's an aside). At any rate, Ive attempted to do the WH's several times with 3-4 others, and Ive lost many many ships thus far. I know of some folks in my alt's alliance that can run them regularly, however as someone pointed out above, it takes hard core players, with very high SP who know eachother well, who are willing to dedicate a large % of time to it, and who are well co-ordinated to actually successfully access the materials. Setting up a POS inside the WH is desired, but then you have to take the hours of time required to get the materials in the wh and set up, etc etc etc. Im sure many people have heard stories on what people have lost in a WH, but I do know of a fleet of 4 marauders that were lost in a wh attempting to access said resources. That's a lot of isk for PVE'ing. And the chances of getting NOTHING because you get killed are significant.

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Originally by: Infinity Ziona

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Originally by: iudex

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Command ships > or = T3 cruisers
but
T3 cruiser cost > command ship cost

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If T3 < Command Ship And Command Ship Price < T3 Price Then Use a Command Ship?

Simple.

T3 Much > Than Command Ship

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Originally by: Akita T

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stuff

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Originally by: Jasper Dark

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I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!

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Originally by: Ghoest

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More mostly useless content - like boosters.

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Originally by: Intense Thinker

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I remember when Hulks came out... 1b isk each. Those were the days when I never saw one ever, now 3 years later they're all over the belts and everyone and their mother has 3

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Originally by: Ghoest

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Yes T3 is a worthless mess as a whole.

I dont think the ships are over powered but I have no way to know because Im not even close to buying a multi billion isk ship.

More mostly useless content - like boosters.

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Originally by: Telinturco

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My Legion can omnitank 1120 DPS and is totally cap stable.
It also deals more DPS than the Sacrilege it is loosely based off of.

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Originally by: Mortuus

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At the cost of these ships (1.6bil or so) I am rather happy with their performance (for WH PvP and living).

HAC DPS? Check
Huge Buffer? Check
Speed? Check
Cov Ops Cloak? Check
Extended Probe with bonus? Check

Yea, they work nicely.

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Originally by: Myra2007

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Edited by: Myra2007 on 26/05/2009 17:26:27

Originally by: Akita T

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stuff

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Dear Akita,

unless i am mistaken you missed one important part of evidence(so it would be 4). And this is more than just "hinting" its a clear cut concession:

Originally by: CCP Nozh

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While IÆm at it I might add something about the prices of Strategic Cruisers. The goal has always been to have them considerably cheap, around the price of tech 2 cruisers.
[...]
If the price gets out of hand (we can't even predict it accurately ourselves) we'll do something about it.

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Everyone claiming its all ok should read that a few times.
edit: Source

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Originally by: Sepelio Fas

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Originally by: Telinturco

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My Legion can omnitank 1120 DPS and is totally cap stable.
It also deals more DPS than the Sacrilege it is loosely based off of.

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Dude not that I'm trying to rain on your parade (too much) because I definitely couldn't care less that you have a t3 cruiser. But when you either get volleyed out by a sniper BS that costs 200 mil (1120dps rep doesn't help much against a sniper fitted 4500 volley BS unless you have a significant buffer) or when you get ****ing destroyed by a very patient curse pilot (cap stable doesn't help against a 300 mil isk curse build with 3 medium TS neuts)I will just laugh. Whoever made the point (i think it was like 15 of the people who posted above me) that t3 ships don't make you invincible was a very smart man/woman/hobbit imho.

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Originally by: Irida Mershkov

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Edit: *******s to the prices, why are the Drone options for T3 so crap?

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Quote:

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EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.

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Originally by: Miyamoto Uroki

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First off, WHY are mission runners the only people who can afford a multi-billion isk ship? Because they earn too much money with not losing their ships during the process. Consequence: Nerf lvl 4 high sec Mission income

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Originally by: Karentaki

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Originally by: Irida Mershkov

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Edit: *******s to the prices, why are the Drone options for T3 so crap?

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Didn't you get the memo? CCP are phasing out drones as a weapon system. They started by nerfing drone ships and making drones useless in W-Space, and soon they'll be expanding that to include missions, ratting, and PvP.

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