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BloodBird Gallente Strix Armaments and Defence	Posted - 2009.05.23 02:07:00 - [1] Right, where to start... I guess it would be fitting to inform you this is my opinion made public, so take what's written here with a grain of salt. While this is mostly intended for the FDU, it can hold true for any militia, for the most part, or anyone considering joining any of the militias. It is meant to be informative and neutral, though obviously I'm a part of the FDU and might well be biased. I intended to write this a few days ago, but time is always a factor to consider, that and I had a habit of forgetting. Now there is not much time left, but better late than never, I think. First of all, what is faction warfare? From a roleplayer's perspective it's a proxy war between the four empires, designed to be fought by capsuleers so as to eliminate the absurd losses of life likely to result from an all-out war. The objectives are simple; Capture all of the enemy's available territory to force them into a state where diplomacy or surrender are the only options left, the opponent being to exhausted to put up a meaningful struggle. We don't really know what happens if one side loses all their systems, but we might know that very soon. From a purely technical viewpoint Faction warfare is nothing less than domination in space. You use your scanner or a prober and work to find a complex, you enter it and either guard or kill the NPC navy inside. Doing so ticks down a timer and soon the complex is either saved or captured. Capturing enough complexes either keeps a system safe from harm, or it makes it vulnerable for capture, but shooting a control bunker located in the system. Obviously you gain nearly nothing from doing the complex itself, apart from this effect. You will not be rewarded in isk. You will not be rewarded in anything apart from victory points, that again increase your rank and standing with the militia in question. I have heard that with Victory points you can acquire items from a store, like the mission-runner's loyalty point store, but I've not checked this, so I don't know. However, apart from the obvious effect of either securing or capturing a complex there is another thing you gain that not everyone is aware of.
BloodBird Gallente Strix Armaments and Defence	Posted - 2009.05.23 02:08:00 - [2] You create an excuse for the enemy to stop you. They don't want to lose systems, and want to stop you defending your own. For this reason they will try to stop your work. In other words they will be out to kill you. Excellent, now you got willing enemies to fight! Faction warfare is all about doing complexes and preventing your enemy from doing his own. In theory this creates an infinite amount of PVP and fun for everyone as everyone wants to fight, and taking or holding plexes is the excuse. However currently there is no reason to do so other than 'because CCP said so'; as already explained you gain nearly nothing from doing the complex game. We already know it's boring, but that's because so few are willing to do this. What is wrong with Faction Warfare? Well, frankly, a lot of things. First and foremost people are not very interested in plexing because, duuh, it bores some of us to tears. There is a persistent belief out there that plexing is just a PVE game. This is wrong. Plexing would be a PVE game if it granted any meaningful rewards, like doing missions. Missions are also boring as the day is long but let's face it; Missions pay rewards, bounty, standing, loot, and salvage. Some offer very fat belts to mine as well so people bother to do them. Plexers do complexes because they WANT to attract enemies to fight, not because plexing is so incredibly rewarding and fun; in themselves, complexes offer nearly nothing. It offers the excuse. If no-one plexes there is no excuse to fight other than 'because we can', and because not everyone is aware of the above fact or simply don't care, combined with little to no reward for even caring, few if any bother. Another problem is that all the complexes spawn right after Down Time; at 12:00 GMT. This is pretty much in the middle of the day for most Euro players, and likely late at night/early morning for most US/Australian players. Not only is this unfair for any US/Australian player as the majority of the PVP happen in the hours after DT, but also any corp with a strong presence after DT stands to cap more complexes. Any effort to plex after the majority are taken is reduced to little more than damage control. Currently, obviously, the SP holds this advantage, fielding fleets of 5-20 shortly after DT, often with far to few FDU plexers to stand even a remote chance of stopping them. After DT, partial respawn of complexes happen every four hours, until DT comes again and the sycle repeats itself.
BloodBird Gallente Strix Armaments and Defence	Posted - 2009.05.23 02:09:00 - [3] The biggest problem right now however, is a huge in-balance in the force available. This is partially CCP's fault and partially the fault of players. The Caldari always had more players, ala capsuleers. Capsuleers are the ones fighting in the proxy-war. The Caldari always had and likely always will have the advantage of numbers - however, this was off-sett in the beginning by the fact that the majority of State Protectorate players were relatively in-experienced in terms of PVP, and the fewer but more PVP-accustomed FDU matched their numbers with nothing less than more skill. This kept things relatively equal for a long time. Now however FW for the Gallente vs Caldari part is not nearly as equal. While the majority of both sides still could care more for plexing, the part of the SP that cares for plexing is allot bigger than their FDU counterpart. As the FDU lose more ground more and more FDU plexers lose heart and either leave the militia, or simply don't bother with the complexes anymore. Due to this, the SP plexers picks up speed, and voila, now there are but 5 systems left for the FDU to defend. Every other system has Caldari complexes at this point. This is a major issue. If these systems fall, any interested FDU plexer will have to face not just the SP that already outnumber them, but a severely overpowered NPC navy. Caldari navy rats shoot missiles than never miss and use jamming that work on any range, making the odds of taking them while they are defended by the SP a completely unfair prospect. Now, while EVE never was, is not, and never will be fair, such an advantage would likely soon bore away any FDU from even bothering to try. And soon after that, the SP players would be bored out of their minds, because no-one bothers fighting them anymore, at the very least not inside the complexes. Tomorrow will be Saturday the twenty-third of May. Today, five of the last ten systems fell, and likelihood is great the last 5 fall sometime after the daily downtime tomorrow. The only positive about this is thus; Any FDU interested in fighting will know exactly where their targets are right after DT. The problem then remains getting enough people together to try and counter them. Should this be achieved and the systems are held, the SP will return to take them again. And again, and again and so on until they have. This means that these last few systems just made the chance of getting good fights and through that, the entertainment we all want, allot bigger. Odds are also good a great number of pirates that are aware of this might arrive as well with the intent to kill everything in sight. No matter if CCP has plans to fix the problems with FW or not, no matter if the SP win this war or not, one thing only remains for sure; the systems of mercomeiser, alamel, anchauttes, evaulon and aldranette will be hotly fought over war-zones this Saturday and hopefully many days to come, if the FDU makes an effort to go there and hold them. We all pay for entertainment in this game, and for the ones involved in Faction Warfare on either the Gallente or Caldari side, that entertainment likely is PVP. We are nearly guaranteed to get what we pay for, fighting over these systems and all other systems in this game of domination.
Dr Deadbolt Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.23 02:54:00 - [4] wow so many pretty words someone may read them all, maybe someone will understand them ( chances of the person that understands them being the same person that that reads them is just ~LOL ) I am guessing from the title that you are the type of person that considers the ability of orbiting a box in space for 20 minutes without :- killing the cat / going into a terminal coma/ forgetting what ur mothers maiden name is/ forgetting what your fathers name is ( both of them ( fathers that is not first names ( there can only be 1 ( first name that is ))))) ( is that the correct amount of brackets ? )) ( who cares reallyy ? ) as being the end game of eve pvp. am I correct or aM I JUST SPEWING NEARLY AS MUCH CARP AS THE OP ? OH NOES i hit caps lock by mistake will more people read my post then the OP s posts ? life has many questions is chopped liver really the .......
Pater Peccavi Minmatar Cadre Assault Force	Posted - 2009.05.23 03:06:00 - [5] Originally by: Dr Deadbolt wow so many pretty words someone may read them all, maybe someone will understand them ( chances of the person that understands them being the same person that that reads them is just ~LOL ) I am guessing from the title that you are the type of person that considers the ability of orbiting a box in space for 20 minutes without :- killing the cat / going into a terminal coma/ forgetting what ur mothers maiden name is/ forgetting what your fathers name is ( both of them ( fathers that is not first names ( there can only be 1 ( first name that is ))))) ( is that the correct amount of brackets ? )) ( who cares reallyy ? ) as being the end game of eve pvp. am I correct or aM I JUST SPEWING NEARLY AS MUCH CARP AS THE OP ? OH NOES i hit caps lock by mistake will more people read my post then the OP s posts ? life has many questions is chopped liver really the ....... I admit it, I read your post and I didn't even finish the first sentence of the OP's first post. I tend to prioritize according to brevity, so I was much more willing to read your post than the OP's blocks of text. Originally by: hi go Let the human be very annoyed! Another person is very repugnant!
Hurtado Soneka Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.05.23 05:13:00 - [6] Good post, reading through it makes me think of how gallente pilots cry "we dont play your version of FW" or slights about plexing in general, as they cant come to terms they have been absolutely blitz by quite a lot of carebears who dont care about throwing away ships they will get back in an hour of missioning. Reality been said, it creates optimism that there will be a complete total war over merco, the one system I really want to take (other than Intaki, which truth be told won us the war since now all your Intaki belong to us blah blah blah...) and we will hopefully all get a great deal of fun out of it. Your question stands to CCP though, what happens when the State finishes off the Federation? They reset the system? They give us a nice reward? They nerf worthless caldari ships off the face of new eden? They start to gives a rats ass about FW? Nobody knows what is going to happen, but one thing is sure, the next week will be intense ^^
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.05.23 05:21:00 - [7] Dear Bloodbird. Caldari may have more numbers and that has always been so and all knew it before faction warfare stated. That is why all so called 'hc pcp' players joined gallente side to pwn newbies. That worked well and gallente is still leading kill statistics. But what comes to the plexing is that those hc pvp players does not much help you out there. So you have lot of players who just want to kill newbies and tell you at the same time how plexing sux and how it gives no rewards etc. All these words lead to break only your own militia morale, making player who plex to feel they are somehow bad people. What comes to skills, i am sure you have already noticed that all plexers are not so useless in pvp. You got owned many times in plexes. You may got some kills too, but that is the basic meaning of plexing. Caldari owned gallente in plexes example in OMS , which is 1 jump from your main home sytem Villore. That plex spawning and capturing systems is complicated thing. It is true that most of plexes spawn after dt. But it does not really prevent you to defend your systems in long term. There is (or was) so many systems that attacker can not be in all those sytems at same time. So defending is possible in general but maybe not if you are looking only one system. It is all about plexing and willing to plex, gallente has no will. You say we got no rewards from fw, but i say POSTS LIKE YOURS IS THE BEST REWARD YOU CAN GET.
waruiushiro	Posted - 2009.05.23 06:42:00 - [8] what is it with the gall/call front and forum failposts?
Zach Donnell Ghost-Busters	Posted - 2009.05.23 08:02:00 - [9] Originally by: Bad Messenger You say we got no rewards from fw, but i say POSTS LIKE YOURS IS THE BEST REWARD YOU CAN GET. ...we told him this
Turelus Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.23 08:07:00 - [10] Nice posts BloodBird, I personally think it would be amazing to have the Gallente come to those last systems... sure we may not capture them as fast but at least people of both sides will have some awesome battles! Also I know it must be stressing to have no one ever listen or help you, it's kind of a shame FOOM left FW because at least they understood plexing made PVP. I always hoped that our domination of the VV region would inspire plexing corps to stand up and fight for plex's much like FOOM did to the 22nd, but it seems unless they have their 10 BS kills a day fix nothing makes them happy :( GL and I hope we have some good fights over these last few systems.
TraininVain	Posted - 2009.05.23 08:56:00 - [11] Edited by: TraininVain on 23/05/2009 09:04:33 Quote: What is wrong with Faction Warfare? Well, frankly, a lot of things. First and foremost people are not very interested in plexing because, duuh, it bores some of us to tears. There is a persistent belief out there that plexing is just a PVE game. This is wrong. Plexing would be a PVE game if it granted any meaningful rewards, like doing missions. Missions are also boring as the day is long but let's face it; Missions pay rewards, bounty, standing, loot, and salvage. Some offer very fat belts to mine as well so people bother to do them. Plexers do complexes because they WANT to attract enemies to fight, not because plexing is so incredibly rewarding and fun; in themselves, complexes offer nearly nothing. It offers the excuse. If no-one plexes there is no excuse to fight other than 'because we can', and because not everyone is aware of the above fact or simply don't care, combined with little to no reward for even caring, few if any bother. This doesn't mean plexes aren't PvE. It means they are poorly designed PvE. Simple fact of the matter is people can and do run plexes just to run them and it is quite possible to do so with no enemy in system. Massive faction standing gains are not "no-reward" for a carebear btw. Some plexers may do them to get PvE. An awful lot avoid PvP however and will simply bail when you arrive in plex and if you camp the acc gate they will simply run into the plex past what you do tackle leaving their m8s to die. The smacktalk about people plexing in WCS (and ECM burst) fitted ships is true. Oh not all plexers to be fair, but I've seen it enough to be pretty happy it's a pattern. That's players in faction "warfare" doing PvE while avoiding PvP. srsly, if plexing was the route to PVP nirvana people would be plexing instead of telling you they'd rather staple their ******* to the chair when you asked for x's. Now I'm prepared to do it as strategic means to an end if I can't find anything more entertaining to do, simply because camping a friendly plex near to home is fun but it has to be a very boring day before I can't find anything more entertaining to do and don't forget among these alternatives are doing boring PvE AND GETTING PAID FOR IT and shooting non-FW targets.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.23 09:03:00 - [12] Edited by: Furb Killer on 23/05/2009 09:05:26 As gallente FW player: That a large part of the gallente say that plexing isnt important bla bla bla, is just because we fail at it. In the beginning, while gallente were far better at shooting the caldari, the caldari were better in the plexing. We said back then the same as we said now. However after about a month, the gallente were ahead in victory points, and suddenly everyone said that plexing was important and that we were just better. More important, we arent just losing terribly in VP, we also are losing in kills. Only due to our large headstart we are in total kills still in front of caldari, but if you check the kills per week, we always have less than caldari. We are just getting owned. However, looking at the npcs it indeed isnt fair. Defending an unrestricted plex can be done in a t1 frig, attacking it not. And with every sysem caldari take, they got more defensive plexes and less offensive. (Why cant we then defend our last systems, when defending is easier? Because that is only really an issue with small groups, caldari attack with 30 people fleet, then those few npcs dont really matter). And the NPCs themselves. In a caldari plex they ecm the crap out of you, and they are very hard to speed tank. Gallente plexes you just get damped, and even your drones can speed tank them for you. Now if pervs would just leave caldari militia, i am confident that we can win back systems, but i doubt that is going to happen. Caldari are right now definately doing better than we are, in every possible way, no point in denying. However CCP should have made it more balanced, and in such a way that the more systems a group takes, the harder it become to retake the remaining systems/easier to lose your systems. Yesterday i was in the gallente fleet trying to defend our last systems. First we heard one system was vulnerable (vlill something), and we came to defend it with roughly 10 ships. The caldari presence was roughly equal, and we in the end also managed to cap the major plex, which however wasnt sufficient to remove its vulnerable status. However while we were busy, we heard the neighbouring system was also vulnerable, so we decided to split up and try to defend both. Now we were outnumbered about 3:2 (note: I know this is mainly due to the caldari having better participation, not just because they got more enlisted). More caldari came in, and we got report of even more systems being vulnerable. We almost managed to cap another plex, but then the caldari came in, outnumbering us 3 to 1, with many more in neighbouring systems, while we were basicly everyone of gallente militia in the neighbourhood. This is mainly due to bad participation, and not just more people enlisted in the caldari militia, but the problem is just that if you look at active people, caldari outnumber us at least 2:1, probably even more, you cant fight against that. So turelus, i am sad to dissapoint you, but you wont have any good battles over those last systems. We have no problems fighting you, but we also arent going to commit suicide by attacking heavily outnumbered and outgunned. Now i will be the last one complaining about blobbing, it isnt your fault you have better participation than we have. However it does mean we will run from you
TraininVain	Posted - 2009.05.23 09:10:00 - [13] Edited by: TraininVain on 23/05/2009 09:17:15 Also, for all this complaining about how we're "losing" I'm actually having more fun now there's fewer systems to go because the squids are more concentrated. We're getting decent pitched battles with plexing corps. We're not actually saving systems because not enough plexes spawn and because once a bunker is vulnerable sitting on it 23/7 isn't happening but the fights are kind of fun. This makes me think that if the capture system was PvP orientated and designed to give us an actual front line FW might be worth sticking with.
Parmenides Elea Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.05.23 09:12:00 - [14] Right defending the few remaining systems means blobs right. Blobs mean lag right. Lag means frustrated waste of time where winner is decided by luck rather than skill right. SO WHATS THE F'ING POINT!!!!
Juan Rayo Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2009.05.23 09:24:00 - [15] Edited by: Juan Rayo on 23/05/2009 09:26:23 Edited by: Juan Rayo on 23/05/2009 09:25:51 Nice posts by Bloodbird and Furb Killer. I wish more people in FDU would get off the "we are better at pvp" high horse they seem to ride on the shadow of WOLFY. SOME Gallente corps are doing better at pvp. FDU in general is getting whupped, and as Furb Killer says, only the original, initial big advantage is what have Gallente Militia with better K/D ratio atm. Sometimes, Strix, Funks, SOTF, Qcats, 8th order (sorry if I forget others) are fighting over plexes 5, 3 jumps from villore, or in OMS just 1 jump over and I see people in gallente militia chat going "LOL PLEXERS PVE BETTER DO MISSIONS PLEXING SUCKS" and then "I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR A FLEET FOR 2 HOURS BETTER GO BACK TO WoW". If you fly off the beaten path, see a plex, cap it, then yeah, chances are you'll spend 20 minutes just orbiting a beacon. Plexes are a tool for pvp and you need to actually try and learn how to use that tool: look at what systems are vulnerable, highly contested, get the major opposing plexing corps into buddy list, run locators, get intel, go fight them over the plex. That's how you get fights in plexing. Going "plexing is pve no fights to be had there" only means you don't know how to find fights in them. Furthermore, plexes allow you to set a goal "conquering all of the opposing side territory" for example, and you can work towards that goal. Caldari are doing it better atm. We WIlL get all those systems back, and then some. Makes for great fun. EDIT: one thing. CCP, FIX the damned JUMP BUG will ya? it's ridiculous when people in fleet have to re log 5, 10 times during a roam because they get this bug. Seriously, SUCKS BIG TIME. Endurecete cabr=n!
EVIL SYNNs Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.05.23 09:34:00 - [16] If you look at the ICS page (if it ever comes up again and I'm having to do this from memory so may be wrong). But is it not the case that the Caldari and Gallente have similar VP totals per member? Which also means that even though there are much less Gallente (nearly half now) that they actually plex more, however the sheer numbers of Caldari have swing the fight? The plexing after DT is a pain, but thats just the way it is. Pervs have done a massive job doing what they do. Fighting in plexes.. 3 kills yesterday (Friday/Thursday) where Gallente killed 3 YES 3!!! Warp core stabbed, scan probed cloaked plexers! (I don't know how they killed them, maybe caldari are just desperate to end the game). So please NO! Do NOT GIVE ME THE Plexes give PvP and the people who plex want to PVP! WOLFY did plexes at the start, right up to January, where we just gave up. Time we logged in there were no plexes, all the systems we contested the night before were safe again. BUT THATS NOT THE CALDARI's Fault! I ain't going to greet about numbers, RECRUIT more people if you want to compete. Look at the 0.0 wars, do you see many small alliance win out against larger (bad example with the silly power blocks we now have in 0.0 - hence why FW is awesome!). Anyways, I salute our Caldari masters and we are ready to open the resistance to the occupation.
Cosmic Raider The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Balance of Judgment	Posted - 2009.05.23 10:00:00 - [17] The more systems the Gals lose, the more good posts we see from them trying to figure out why, or it at least trying to explain it away. It's not so hard to understand and it has nothing to do with the various excuses I have seen the Gals offering over the past several months (plexing is beneath us, plexing is pve- not for real men like me, plexes spawn after DT, Caldari plexes are too hard and ours are too easy, we couldn't get numerical superiority, the dog ate my homework, etc, etc). Here's the secret. Caldari back in December made a conscious effort to organize themselves across several corps to plex in the belief that: 1) It was important to take Gal space and defend Black Rise for its own sake and regardless of rewards (note to self: the Pavlovian motivation in the Gallente deserves further study). 2) The pvp we would find there would be superior to the large blob pvp from OMS to Tama, be it against Gal opponents or pirates. (note to self: how does the Gallente Pavlovian motiviation relate to the irony of the bitter Gal complaints re Caldari blobs in the Tama-OMS fight while simultaneously refusing to come out to plex because it wasn't real pvp, i.e, blob warfare?). Meanwhile, we got plenty of action and had a great time. Caldari corps bought into the concept and worked together to bring about the result. It was the teamwork covering over 100 systems that got it done. Great job to all Caldari plexers - looking forward to seeing the last splashes of blue go up on the map!
BloodBird Gallente Strix Armaments and Defence	Posted - 2009.05.23 10:29:00 - [18] Originally by: Dr Deadbolt wow so many pretty words wow such a silly post with nothing to add to the argument... Originally by: Bad Messenger Dear Bloodbird. Caldari may have more numbers and that has always been so and all knew it before faction warfare stated. That is why all so called 'hc pcp' players joined gallente side to pwn newbies. That worked well and gallente is still leading kill statistics. Not for long they will, if this development keeps up. Current standing is nearly 50/50 percentage from my last KB check, so the things the SP is doing right, be it numbers, participation rate, improving their PVP skills, plain dumb luck or whatever, will soon paint a different picture. But both of us know this so let's move on. Originally by: Bad Messenger But what comes to the plexing is that those hc pvp players does not much help you out there. So you have lot of players who just want to kill newbies and tell you at the same time how plexing sux and how it gives no rewards etc. All these words lead to break only your own militia morale, making player who plex to feel they are somehow bad people. No, they don't help out much at all, really. This is a shame because for the plexers that do want to fight allot, we often end up woefully outnumbered and out gunned, and I'd guess a nice part of the kills SP makes is on FDU who tried anyhow. I know I've contributed more than a few losses to the FDU boards. The ones who keep claiming that Plexing is bad don't do anything but harm the morale of those who do plex, this is true, that or discourage new FW players from trying. This is not good for any of us, because if more FDU made fleets to go look for plexes and more importantly, the SP, we would all have a lot more fun. Originally by: Bad Messenger What comes to skills, i am sure you have already noticed that all plexers are not so useless in pvp. You got owned many times in plexes. You may got some kills too, but that is the basic meaning of plexing. Caldari owned gallente in plexes example in OMS , which is 1 jump from your main home sytem Villore. I never claimed plexers are useless in PVP, or in any way inferior to 'high grade players' or whatever. In fact I myself am a plexer and I run them hoping for interesting fights. Sometimes I get that, sometimes I do stupid things like charge into obviously un-winnable odds like the 'battle' for Brarel. Wasted a perfectly usable Harbinger there. It puzzles me how OMS even fell. Until it did I was under the belief it would be the very last system to fall, if at all, simply due the fact the FDU more or less live in the system. I can only assume that the number of people that tried ot stop you were not enough to do so.
BloodBird Gallente Strix Armaments and Defence	Posted - 2009.05.23 10:29:00 - [19] Originally by: Bad Messenger That plex spawning and capturing systems is complicated thing. It is true that most of plexes spawn after dt. But it does not really prevent you to defend your systems in long term. There is (or was) so many systems that attacker can not be in all those sytems at same time. So defending is possible in general but maybe not if you are looking only one system. It is all about plexing and willing to plex, gallente has no will. No BM, you see it does. Any and all complexes spawn EVERYWHERE after DT, in other words, if you manage to cap most of them if not all, your already way ahead. All the other respawn times are only partial, a few plexes a time scattered about the regions. Even taking all of these would only slow down the head-start the SP has after DT, so defending after this get very hard. The FDU managed to keep your system capturing efforts contained in this manner for weeks until nobody bothered anymore, than a system I can't remember and Brarel fell in rapid succession. After that it was all down-hill, very fast. The FDU morale for plexing right now has hit rock-bottom. Barely anyone even bothers to try and those few are easily out-blobbed by the SP gangs that nearly always have superior numbers. This would not be such a bad thing if the morale was not so low û all we need for the odds to balance a little bit is more FDU bothering to move about in gangs and looking for you, but this is rather unlikely to happen, I think. Still, I see no harm in trying. Originally by: Bad Messenger You say we got no rewards from fw, but i say POSTS LIKE YOURS IS THE BEST REWARD YOU CAN GET. I'm glad I'm an entertainment to you then, BM. Also, I did not say we got no reward from FW, in fact I stated quite clearly about the only noticeable reward for FW is PVP, ergo entertainment for the PVP'ers. I would love for nothing more than to see every FDU and SP player roam around in fleets all day and fight one another in Black Rise, Placid and Verge Vendor all day every day. I play this game to be entertained, I don't play to be bored. I see FW as a potential for endless PVP every day, but right now it looks like the entire concept has fallen apart. We all know the mechanics are broken, but until that's fixed, the only thing we can try to do is compensate for it and make the fun we want become reality. The way I see it for that to happened no side in this war can be allowed to 'win' the war as one side will be forced to always attacking, the other to always defending, and right now the SP has all the advantages, unbalancing FW and making it less fun.
TooNu Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.23 10:36:00 - [20] The things I want to say in this thread to some people and can not. Honesty or civility? and I MUST go with being cival.
Droog 1 Black Rise Inbreds	Posted - 2009.05.23 11:06:00 - [21] Edited by: Droog 1 on 23/05/2009 11:11:04 Gallente Militia is fail when it comes to plexes. When new members asked about plexes all the so called 'veterans' laughed at them and told them plexing is pointless and boring and for Carebears. In the past, I've seen Gallente FCs refuse to enter a plex and threaten anyone who did with expulsion from the fleet. Combine this with Systems becoming vulnerable at 14:00 Evetime and you have a recipe for disaster. The Gallente could probably put up more of a fight if more of them cared but they don't have the same amount of people plexing post downtime. FW has decended into COAD style posting and chestbeating, Carebear whines about not getting rewards, complaints about War Decs and people thinking the Militia is the same as Alliance. Complexes are not missions. The Militia is not an Alliance. This is not a real war. It is a fake war that can never end. Being outnumbered is not CCPs fault. In a sandbox you make your own fun. There's still fun to be had. Stop moaning. On the plus side: There will only be 4 or 5 more posts made by the post Downtime Caldari plexers. Caldari need to hurry up and capture those Systems asap. Then their 'Quest' will be finished and they can move onto the next phase of FW.
Parmenides Elea Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.05.23 11:13:00 - [22] Originally by: Droog 1 Edited by: Droog 1 on 23/05/2009 11:11:04 Gallente Militia is fail when it comes to plexes. When new members asked about plexes all the so called 'veterans' laughed at them and told them plexing is pointless and boring and for Carebears. In the past, I've seen Gallente FCs refuse to enter a plex and threaten anyone who did with expulsion from the fleet. Combine this with Systems becoming vulnerable at 14:00 Evetime and you have a recipe for disaster. The Gallente could probably put up more of a fight if more of them cared but they don't have the same amount of people plexing post downtime. FW has decended into COAD style posting and chestbeating, Carebear whines about not getting rewards, complaints about War Decs and people thinking the Militia is the same as Alliance. Complexes are not missions. The Militia is not an Alliance. This is not a real war. It is a fake war that can never end. Being outnumbered is not CCPs fault. In a sandbox you make your own fun. There's still fun to be had. Stop moaning. On the plus side: There will only be 4 or 5 more posts made by the post Downtime Caldari plexers. Caldari need to hurry up and capture those Systems asap. Then their 'Quest' will be finished and they can move onto the next phase of FW. Signed Well put Droog
Richard Third Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.05.23 11:41:00 - [23] 1. Without any gallente plexes, gallente lose any "home field" pvp. 1a. After one bad experience being perma-jammed in a caldari plex, Gallente will generally stop pvp in plexes. More or less totally. 2. Without any control bunkers, gallente lose the chance to shoot at caldari fleets tasked for bunker destruction. 2a. Defending the bunker was crap. Caldari could retire, reform and Gallente would be stuck in the system with the bunker for hours. <sarcasm> Congrats to the caldari blob on their victory over gallente NPC's. </sarcasm> -- You can't do that with a Planet.
Unfamed II	Posted - 2009.05.23 13:21:00 - [24] I never asked for any rewards for plexing. It's just a goal to capture the systems for no reason, gives us something to do, and everyone can participate. IF the lag issues get fixed, we will do something more meaningful. (tbh thats pretty much anything) Originally by: Sandslinger of CA So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.23 14:05:00 - [25] Quote: Being outnumbered is not CCPs fault. No it isnt, but it is CCPs fault they didnt take it into account and prevented the current situation, the more systems one side takes, the faster the remaining ones will fall. Obviously, gallente FW cant beat caldari if we just mindless clash two fleets. With all those systems to attack, i suppose one day we will get one vulnerable (maybe). And then? If caldari dont notice it in time, we can even take the control bunker. But then we got a single system, and half the caldari militia will be concentrated on retaking that system, which we cannot possibly beat.
Intigo Amarr Endemic Aggression Exalted.	Posted - 2009.05.23 15:14:00 - [26] Originally by: Dr Deadbolt wow so many pretty words someone may read them all, maybe someone will understand them ( chances of the person that understands them being the same person that that reads them is just ~LOL ) I am guessing from the title that you are the type of person that considers the ability of orbiting a box in space for 20 minutes without :- killing the cat / going into a terminal coma/ forgetting what ur mothers maiden name is/ forgetting what your fathers name is ( both of them ( fathers that is not first names ( there can only be 1 ( first name that is ))))) ( is that the correct amount of brackets ? )) ( who cares reallyy ? ) as being the end game of eve pvp. am I correct or aM I JUST SPEWING NEARLY AS MUCH CARP AS THE OP ? OH NOES i hit caps lock by mistake will more people read my post then the OP s posts ? life has many questions is chopped liver really the ....... Wow. You're really stupid. :/ ___________________ ENEMA, much love. <3
Draco Rosso	Posted - 2009.05.23 15:32:00 - [27] Edited by: Draco Rosso on 23/05/2009 15:36:08 To the Federal Defense union pilots still are or were active plexing. Do not follow the naysayerÆs (anti plexing Gallente corps) twisted view of faction warfare. They hope to miss lead you and turn tama into arena style of pvp like are like those in the W.O.W universe. Their view point has cause the complete collapse of Gallente faction warfare space. Their view point also feeds the Caldari blob machine the naysayers claim to dislike so much. This is not the correct view of faction warfare and has led the moral collapse of federal defenseless union. The FDU pilots that took part in defense of northern placid truly understand what the correct view point of FW is. To Strix Armaments: Take a leadership role in the occupancy war if hope to make a difference. This was position that Dark-Rising reluctantly held until they joined the mimintar militia. Little did they know the influence they held on northern placid until it was too late.
RedSplat Heretic Army	Posted - 2009.05.23 16:14:00 - [28] Why does the Cal/Gal front always fail so hard... Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting. Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
Raimo Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.05.23 17:40:00 - [29] Originally by: RedSplat Why does the Cal/Gal front always fail so hard... I dunno what you mean, we in WOLFY are having lots of fun and killing ****loads. I see several other corps in both of the militias doing the same. (Tho ofc killing a bit less ;) ) Don't see that as failing tbh. --- WOLFY is recruiting!
Parmenides Elea Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.05.23 18:20:00 - [30] Originally by: Draco Rosso Edited by: Draco Rosso on 23/05/2009 15:36:08 To the Federal Defense union pilots still are or were active plexing. Do not follow the naysayerÆs (anti plexing Gallente corps) twisted view of faction warfare. They hope to miss lead you and turn tama into arena style of pvp like are like those in the W.O.W universe. Their view point has cause the complete collapse of Gallente faction warfare space. Their view point also feeds the Caldari blob machine the naysayers claim to dislike so much. This is not the correct view of faction warfare and has led the moral collapse of federal defenseless union. The FDU pilots that took part in defense of northern placid truly understand what the correct view point of FW is. To Strix Armaments: Take a leadership role in the occupancy war if hope to make a difference. This was position that Dark-Rising reluctantly held until they joined the mimintar militia. Little did they know the influence they held on northern placid until it was too late. Draco, you so funny
Shosin Tamaka	Posted - 2009.05.24 02:52:00 - [31] I quit the Gall milita after spending hours trying to find a fleet. Over several days. Solo flying around then dieing to 7/10/20 ship gangs. Just wasn't fun. Got turned down a few times for fleet because I was flying a tristan and not a rifter or some T2 ship... Thought we needed numbers? Doesn't matter anyway though. Min militia is much more accepting to new players. Fleets are plenty. Targets are a bit sparse though. I'll earn my bones w/the Minmatars. Come back around when the Gals want to win. Viva la Resistance?
eskr	Posted - 2009.05.24 05:22:00 - [32] My most complain about FW is the complete unrelation of plexing mechanics to even faintest similarity to war. In roleplaying aspect plexing just don't trigger in me 'defend your motherland' type of stuff because it is so disconnected from how wars fought. In other words, war is not fought by just sitting on your base doing nothing (defensive plexing). Offensive plexes is complete mess at all - I certainly don't think the D-Day op will be successful if say enough of Allied soldiers were running on Normandia beach for 20 mins so fast that the Germans wouldn't be able to hit them. I joined FW to roleplay 'fighting a war' and I had great fun of pvp fleets (and by fun I mean not 'killing newbs', I'm not that great pvper), but plexing is just so boring to me, I did lots of them, but every time I feel less desire to do them. And you know - it is game I paid for. I'm not very inclined to do something which is not bringing fun for my own money.
Hurtado Soneka Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.05.24 06:39:00 - [33] Originally by: eskr I joined FW to roleplay 'fighting a war' and I had great fun of pvp fleets (and by fun I mean not 'killing newbs', I'm not that great pvper), but plexing is just so boring to me, I did lots of them, but every time I feel less desire to do them. And you know - it is game I paid for. I'm not very inclined to do something which is not bringing fun for my own money. I agree with this statement but it raises the question 'what should FW be like?' Its a kick in the teeth to accept, but really we have a good deal here. SP and FDU are NPC corps in an everlasting wardec, FW space is our personal warzone infested with (i think) gal aligned pirates, its littered with unique DS type pockets ala plexes, corps can go RP all over it and join their favoured factions. Yes theres no lvl4 type rewards, No theres no fecking faction BS trade ins for LP like there should damn well be, but for casual players who wanna log in and maybe x up for a fleet, do their lvl4s/mine, go plexing and hope for the best, its a pretty sweet thing we got. Cals got the numbers and npcs, Gals got the decent ships, nice trade off
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.24 07:31:00 - [34] Quote: gal aligned pirates Wut? And while you may like it in your dream world, you dont have to fly caldari ships, and in general they outperform gallente ships (only gallente cruisers are definately better than caldari).
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.05.24 07:59:00 - [35] We have now these rules in faction warfare. You say mechanic is broken, but i say caldari just want to do things no matter what rules are. Gallente tried to defend and were quite good at it until they just stopped to do that. Gallente also showed that they can take systems too. Caldari took most of their strategies from gallente added some more and now have consept that works in these rules. Now gallente only relays that ccp should come to help them by changing rules. You are saying now how unbalanced this fw is when caldari has taken almost all systems and having caldari rats in plexes. I can say it was worth of it to take most of them. But do not worry , just listen all those gallente war specialist who say it does not matter who own systems.
eskr	Posted - 2009.05.24 09:14:00 - [36] Originally by: Hurtado Soneka I agree with this statement but it raises the question 'what should FW be like?' Its a kick in the teeth to accept, but really we have a good deal here. SP and FDU are NPC corps in an everlasting wardec, FW space is our personal warzone infested with (i think) gal aligned pirates, its littered with unique DS type pockets ala plexes, corps can go RP all over it and join their favoured factions. Agree fully, excluding 'Gal aligned pirates' and plexes. As a legal warzone where you can quickly find a fight FW is great and I love it for it. I value it really highly as for long time I was in npc corp and didn't want to join player corp simply because I wanted to do what I wanted to do. And FW is perfect for finding experience (or trouble) when you feel like it. Just take away plexes and everything is gotta be nice to me. There was a time when I was complaining about lack of reward for plexing - but now I just don't think it will change much, plexing is simply boring. And I don't complain about Cals having numbers - it is just making it harder for us, but at least I feel myself on the proper side of the business as I wouldn't be very happy attacking somebody who has lower numbers.
Turelus Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit	Posted - 2009.05.24 09:43:00 - [37] I don't think rewards for plexing will ever make people plex... as said it's boring... To make people plex you need to have system occupancy mean something! look at 0.0 people say POS shooting all day is boring but they do it because having systems gives you stuff... (kinda) I do agree with the Gallente and their "why should we care that the text says Caldari" but I think it's a damn shame we have good people like BloodBird here trying to rally his team to fight (yes fight not plex) but they all ignore him. He said the Caldari would be in those systems after DT yesterday... and guess what? we were there... and the only resistance was pirates and this brave Gallente pilot. If the Gallente want to run around screaming "we do it for pvp" then come fight! you know where the 22nd, PERVS and many other corps are after DT every day, you know we bring Militia blobs now but you are still don't show? I don't know how many of you were around when Costolle fell but you guys camped that system for like 24 hours blowing the hell out of many good Caldari's. Also... by this time next week the war will be won! (plex ftw!)
Tomo Yamaoka Gallente Strix Armaments and Defence	Posted - 2009.05.24 13:08:00 - [38] First off Tureles and Bloodbird, you have my respect, while so many other pilots on both sides spew either complaints or snide insults, these two pilots have conducted themselves with civil respect, we are at war, and ships are lost every day due to creative fleet commanding, well crafted tactical deployment, and dumb luck. It is painful to see these conversations digress again and again to snide comments and childish bickering. This fight will go on as long as it needs to, which by the looks of things thanks to Concord interference in how the wars will be fought. The moment you start to underestimate and scoff the enemy is the moment they come in under your radar and begin to destroy you. The Gallente Militia has become far too complacent and now we see the Caldari pulling ahead. To my allies, I commend the efforts to correct this, and the valiant efforts of the FDU to stand firm in the face of overwhelming odds. To my enemies, I salute you for fighting a noble war and using our own tactics against us. ((To CCP, please fix the lag, I love large fleet battles, even if they are three to one odds, but one more lag death and I think I may throw the TV out the window)) Agent Provocateur of the FIO
Essence Praetor Retribution. Inc.	Posted - 2009.05.24 13:39:00 - [39] This post really makes my A.D.D and 2nd grade reading comprehension skills hurt /0\
Dex Nederland Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2009.05.24 14:50:00 - [40] Suggestion in regards to lag. Leadership on both sides should send daily notices of upcoming systems where they will be conducting 'large' scale operations to CCP. And remind CCP that battles may shift across multiple systems. For example, WOLFY should be sending a daily report to CCP that they expect to put xx+ number of pilots in Tama from aa:bb to cc:bb and that they regularly encounter yy+ Caldari pilots at anyone time. 22nd should send up the 4 remaining systems, include the immediately surrounding systems (possibly the constellation and neighboring consetllation) that will be targeted. Same goes for the Minmatar/Amarr front; if a corp is actually planning a operation let CCP know. If no 'lag' improvement is seen; CCP clearly is discouraging participation in Factional Warfare and PvP. I would hate to be the programming team that spent months putting together a the basic mechanics only to have it all abandoned because "0.0 is the end-game!" mentality. In-Game Browser : http://ldis.caldari-made.net
Ziriko Keplit State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.05.24 19:52:00 - [41] Originally by: EVIL SYNNs ...we are ready to open the resistance to the occupation. This made me smile I remembered one nice, funny song that could be good hymn to resistance La Resistance lives on
Lubomir Penev Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.05.25 13:53:00 - [42] Originally by: Shosin Tamaka I quit the Gall milita after spending hours trying to find a fleet. Over several days. Solo flying around then dieing to 7/10/20 ship gangs. You are flying the wrong ship. The best thing about FW is no bubble camp and plenty of things a solo Taranis can kill. And now way to catch you if you don't want to. -- 20081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 20090317 : back under original ownership
london Gallente Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.05.25 17:13:00 - [43] Originally by: Richard Third <sarcasm> Congrats to the caldari blob on their victory over gallente NPC's. </sarcasm> That's pretty much it. If FW occupation was determined by fleet battles, the Caldari would have lost long, long ago. The only "success" you had, had to come from outside of the PVP environment. So once again, Congrats to the caldari blob on their victory over gallente NPC's.
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.05.25 17:27:00 - [44] Originally by: london Originally by: Richard Third <sarcasm> Congrats to the caldari blob on their victory over gallente NPC's. </sarcasm> That's pretty much it. If FW occupation was determined by fleet battles, the Caldari would have lost long, long ago. The only "success" you had, had to come from outside of the PVP environment. So once again, Congrats to the caldari blob on their victory over gallente NPC's. hmm... i think DARK could not even beat npc, but hey have a nice time in minmatar militia. Leaving sunking ship is always good way to boost moral. I find it some way amusing that people who tried to prevent us to pve failed on it and now thay say it was outside pvp enviroment. Hell yea, pvp is gone by escaping gallente.
london Gallente Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.05.25 17:38:00 - [45] Originally by: Bad Messenger hmm... i think DARK could not even beat npc, but hey have a nice time in minmatar militia. Leaving sunking ship is always good way to boost moral. I find it some way amusing that people who tried to prevent us to pve failed on it and now thay say it was outside pvp enviroment. Hell yea, pvp is gone by escaping gallente. I think the sinking ship is FW in general. Patch after patch CCP has done nothing for it. But hey, you can only fight the same fights so many times before it becomes a routine. DARK leaving Gallente militia had nothing to do with the current plexing system.
BacardiDesire Caldari The 8th Order	Posted - 2009.05.26 10:27:00 - [46] Originally by: london Originally by: Bad Messenger hmm... i think DARK could not even beat npc, but hey have a nice time in minmatar militia. Leaving sunking ship is always good way to boost moral. I find it some way amusing that people who tried to prevent us to pve failed on it and now thay say it was outside pvp enviroment. Hell yea, pvp is gone by escaping gallente. I think the sinking ship is FW in general. Patch after patch CCP has done nothing for it. But hey, you can only fight the same fights so many times before it becomes a routine. DARK leaving Gallente militia had nothing to do with the current plexing system. the real reason is even worse then leaving a sinking ship if you hear that all i want is some cake.
X Gallentius MicroFunks	Posted - 2009.05.26 20:36:00 - [47] Originally by: Bad Messenger hmm... i think DARK could not even beat npc, but hey have a nice time in minmatar militia. Leaving sunking ship is always good way to boost moral. I find it some way amusing that people who tried to prevent us to pve failed on it and now thay say it was outside pvp enviroment. Hell yea, pvp is gone by escaping gallente. You guys won all those systems fair and square. Congrats. Really, you guys pushed the two strongest Gallente Corps out of Gallente FW, FOOM and then Dark-Rising, through a very well thought out strategy. Dark-Rising abandoning Gallente FW was the nail in the system occupancy coffin, but they probably have more fun in BS fleet fights than cruiser sized skirmish fights. So now what? Guerrilla war!
Juan Rayo Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2009.05.26 20:41:00 - [48] Originally by: X Gallentius So now what? Guerrilla war! /me puts on RP hat: Now, my friend, we start the resistance until we push the invaders out! And it¦s gonna be great fun. Endurecete cabr=n!
london Gallente Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.05.26 21:29:00 - [49] Originally by: X Gallentius Dark-Rising abandoning Gallente FW was the nail in the system occupancy coffin, but they probably have more fun in BS fleet fights than cruiser sized skirmish fights. Not true, the BS fleet fights are MitchÆs specialty. The rest of us fly everything and anything. We actually took out a T1 cruiser gang into Amarr space not long ago and netted several kills in the process. This is a common sight for us. I personally love T1 frigate PVP, back to basics and making T2 crap themselves one after another. <3 Dark
Kessiaan Minmatar MicroFunks	Posted - 2009.05.26 21:47:00 - [50] Plexing isn't that bad, people just take it too seriously. You want WTs? Following this simple procedure: 1) Relocate to your favorite off-pipe FW lowsec 2) Run a few plexes to contest the systems 3) Have fun with the WTs that will show up to uncontest your systems Occupancy currently affects exactly nothing, so there's no point in making a serious effort to actually flip the systems. But as a giant 'Summon Wartargets' button they're great.
X Gallentius MicroFunks	Posted - 2009.05.26 22:20:00 - [51] Edited by: X Gallentius on 26/05/2009 22:20:44 Edited by: X Gallentius on 26/05/2009 22:20:26 Edited by: X Gallentius on 26/05/2009 22:20:06 Originally by: Kessiaan Occupancy currently affects exactly nothing, so there's no point in making a serious effort to actually flip the systems. But as a giant 'Summon Wartargets' button they're great. It's like a peacoque (love profanity filters, lol) looking for a mate. Flash some big blue dots on the map and your Caldari PvP mates will show up pretty quickly.
Guillame Herschel Gallente Buffalo Soldiers	Posted - 2009.05.26 23:12:00 - [52] Originally by: BloodBird We don't really know what happens if one side loses all their systems, but we might know that very soon. Wouldn't it be the coolest thing ever, if when the squiddies defeat the last bunker, they get a short movie showing some Caldari guys getting a medal, then the occupancy status resets to the beginning again? I don't think I'd survive the fit of laughter that would come upon me if that was the FW endgame. *-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then* --**
Guillame Herschel Gallente Buffalo Soldiers	Posted - 2009.05.26 23:22:00 - [53] The main problem with FW is the same as events: it's over by the time I login. I miss all events in America/Los_Angeles timezone. If plex re-spawns were unpredictable and occurred round-the-clock, the occupantsy map would look a lot different than it does. *-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then* --**
Guillame Herschel Gallente Buffalo Soldiers	Posted - 2009.05.26 23:33:00 - [54] Originally by: Cosmic Raider Here's the secret. Caldari back in December made a conscious effort to organize themselves across several corps to plex ... And around the same time FOOM decided to stop making a conscious effort to organize themselves and several other corps to plex... Was that just a coincidence? *-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then* --**
Guillame Herschel Gallente Buffalo Soldiers	Posted - 2009.05.26 23:38:00 - [55] Originally by: Dex Nederland Suggestion in regards to lag. Leadership on both sides should send daily notices of upcoming systems where they will be conducting 'large' scale operations to CCP. Why should they do this? CCP can just look at the god damned map to see where tomorrow's action will be. *-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then* --**
Guillame Herschel Gallente Buffalo Soldiers	Posted - 2009.05.26 23:43:00 - [56] Originally by: Kessiaan You want WTs? Following this simple procedure: 1) Relocate to your favorite off-pipe FW lowsec 1a) Login right after DT 2) Run a few plexes to contest the systems 3) Have fun with the WTs that will show up to uncontest your systems Fix that for you. It was missing the most important step. *-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then* --**
Guillame Herschel Gallente Buffalo Soldiers	Posted - 2009.05.26 23:43:00 - [57] Five uncontested posts! Beat that squiddies! :) *-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then* --**
X Gallentius MicroFunks	Posted - 2009.05.27 05:25:00 - [58] Originally by: Guillame Herschel And around the same time FOOM decided to stop making a conscious effort to organize themselves and several other corps to plex... Was that just a coincidence? Actually no. They weren't going to push FOOM out of Black Rise by force alone, so they decided to plex VV to demoralize FOOM into moving on. Great strategic move by them actually.
Draco Rosso	Posted - 2009.05.27 05:36:00 - [59] Originally by: Guillame Herschel Originally by: Cosmic Raider Here's the secret. Caldari back in December made a conscious effort to organize themselves across several corps to plex ... And around the same time FOOM decided to stop making a conscious effort to organize themselves and several other corps to plex... Was that just a coincidence? WTF are you talking about in the month of December Black Rise was under siege by FOOM and we lost eleven systems that month and we only managed to take two. After months of heavy fighting CAIN and Cadre fought FOOM to a standstill in Black Rise. While the 22nd with the help of the pervs keep the pressure in verge vendor, while fighting pirates and war targets. If youÆre going talk to smack get your damn history correct. Why don't your run along to old man star now like good little froggy.
Guillame Herschel Gallente Buffalo Soldiers	Posted - 2009.05.27 18:26:00 - [60] Ok, January then. Jesus. *-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then* --**
Ulstan	Posted - 2009.05.28 20:55:00 - [61] Edited by: Ulstan on 28/05/2009 20:57:20 Originally by: london Originally by: Richard Third <sarcasm> Congrats to the caldari blob on their victory over gallente NPC's. </sarcasm> That's pretty much it. If FW occupation was determined by fleet battles, the Caldari would have lost long, long ago. The only "success" you had, had to come from outside of the PVP environment. So once again, Congrats to the caldari blob on their victory over gallente NPC's. I'm amused when people say this. It's not like you don't know exactly which systems to go to fight the plexers. You just chose not too. The plexes exist as a means of starting fights, same as the FW missions. The whole point is to designate an admittedly arbitrary point in space both sides can fight over. Plexers are not trying to avoid PvP, they are participating in PvP. The fact that you failed to show up to the fight and let the NPC's do your work for you reflects poorly on you, not on them. I think the ship restrictions on the plexes were an ingenious idea to revitalize T1 ship combat instead of everyone zooming around in T2 hacs/recons by default.
olzi Caldari Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.05.28 22:05:00 - [62] http://pervs.pingtimeout.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=14781 Had some PvE fun today in a Heydieles plex. Although I think the spawn rate was bugged somehow, all the blinky spawns arrived very sporadically. Oh the horror if Gallente militia had dropped on us as we slayed the - what I assume were - NPC's.
Tosi Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.05.28 22:15:00 - [63] Originally by: olzi http://pervs.pingtimeout.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=14781 Had some PvE fun today in a Heydieles plex. Although I think the spawn rate was bugged somehow, all the blinky spawns arrived very sporadically. Oh the horror if Gallente militia had dropped on us as we slayed the - what I assume were - NPC's. Also the loot was awful. I'd really hope they fix fw rewards really... --- Bad Messenger does not play god. Playing is for children.
samiup	Posted - 2009.05.29 21:58:00 - [64] good post and good points, although i disagree about the cause of the imbalance. CCP is not responsible if one race has more organized players on the milichia, however they are responsible for the difference between spaces, gallente space is not as attractive as caldari's
Kessiaan Minmatar MicroFunks	Posted - 2009.05.30 15:09:00 - [65] Edited by: Kessiaan on 30/05/2009 15:10:27 The whole system needs to change. Most Gallente refuse to plex now purely out of principle - if I had to hazard a guess I'd say there's less than ten people non-FW noobs left in the entire militia that are willing to make a serious attempt at contesting systems and only slightly more that are willing to engage a Caldari plex fleet, excluding the last occupied system as people know they can get fights there. People are sick to death of the various plexing shenanigans we hear about on a daily basis here, they know they'll get more kills if they just stick to the pipe or even roam around a bit, and plexing is really, really boring. I know personally the last time I got a kill in a plex was months ago - they have a rep. for being PvE in a PvP environment for a reason. In a nutshell, people know they won't get (many) kills, know nothing of any substance will happen, and know that they can stay in Villore and still get fights instead of having to move their asses out into lowsec on a full-time basis. I can't blame them for not being arsed to care. All that said though, I'll keep trying. It brings the WTs, even if they are a bit hard to catch and there are bouts of occasional blobbiness.

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