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CCP, does it feel good to waste a lot of your developer time ?

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baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.05.27 21:21:00 - [1] I loved my time in FW and only left because 0.0 called. Equaly I like playing around in wormholes and as far as I can tell, the in game economy is working better than the real one You want wasted developer time? Try the NGE. I bought the Mustifar expansion only to have that chunk of bile pushed onto me. 2 years of work all gone with one ****ty expansion. Your realy have no reason to be complaining.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.01 22:01:00 - [2] I still dont see what all the fuss over t3 costs is about. I fully expected the 1.5 bil pricetag on the new hulls and I also knew they would slowly drop in price as competion and skills caught up to demand. The last time I looked an amarr t3 cost 600 mil a few jumps away from the amarr system which is a 900 million isk drop in a few months. As for the devs quotes getting tossed around like poo in a monkey cage, most are a single devs opnion and all are estimates based upon what they think "might" happen in their veiw. The devs had no more idea how t3 would play out than me when it came to how much players would charge and would be willing to pay. I say give it a few more months and see where t3 ships finaly settle at.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.04 08:09:00 - [3] Akita did it ever cross your mind that the people who are telling you your wrong might actualy be right? I have only been in WH space a few times but each time was very profitable. It just requires a bit of effort and friends which if your in a good corp/allience will come easily no matter the numbers in it. I realy am having difficulty seeing your side of this arguement when my experience is so very different to yours.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.04 08:36:00 - [4] Originally by: Tzar'rim I bolded the important part. You are right ofcourse but the ISSUE is that missions require no team, no interaction, no braincells and no effort yet they STILL make a whole lot of cash. An MMO (and certainly not EVE) shouldn't advocate solo, non-effort ret@rd proof gameplay. While you can ofcourse agree to disagree on the amount of cash the it earns, the simple fact is that mission running is out of control as it's the failsafe, sure way to make cash without needing effort. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak. To be honest there isnt much to do about this. Nerf high sec level 4s and boost the ones in low sec wont make people move to them. All the people in high sec will still do them. Removing them will cause a **** storm and still they wont go into low sec while at the same time crippling my current means of funding my pvp ships However there are ways in this game to bring the pain to these risk adverce mission runners although it too requires forward planning. I know of someone who made billions each month just by blowing mission bears out of the sky in high sec. Also lets not forget that the real money in high sec is in exploring and the markets.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.04 08:42:00 - [5] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: baltec1 Akita did it ever cross your mind that the people who are telling you your wrong might actualy be right? All possibilities constantly cross my mind, and I have even conceeded some of their points, if you have noticed. Quote: I have only been in WH space a few times but each time was very profitable. It just requires a bit of effort and friends which if your in a good corp/allience will come easily no matter the numbers in it. I realy am having difficulty seeing your side of this arguement when my experience is so very different to yours. Ah, see ? It "JUST" requires a bit of effort (time) and friends and so on and so forth. Let's see why exactly would you be unable to see my side of the argument... how old are you (just age group, highschool/student/college graduate), where do you live (with parents / in a dorm room / renting a place all alone or with friends / head of your own family in your own house) and how much free time do you usually have (unemployed / just some school work and no job / an easy job with flexible hours / regular job where you maybe can login occasionally / annoying job with long hours / both school and an annoying job) ? How many hours a month do you spend inside EVE, and how often do you login ? How many people in your corp and/or alliance are usually online and in your general location ? And so on and so forth... I am a trained bouncer who works 12 hour night shifts and I am lucky to get 4 hours of free time over the weekend let alone eve time. Yet dispite this I can get a few people together to go do something in eve be it a suicide gank, low sec run or 0.0 fun.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.04 13:39:00 - [6] See your argument is comming across as: I cannot be bothered to put in as much work as others but I want the cash they are earning. WH space is fine and offers alot in rewards, all you need to do it get out and organise stuff yourself. Theres thousands of players in high sec at any given time, the chances that you cannot get a group of 4 or 5 people to team up and do stuff is very small unless you dont put in any effort on your part.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.04 14:35:00 - [7] Originally by: Akita T In simpler words : either * you say w-space is profitable, I say it's not profitable enough or * you say L4 highsec earn enough ISK, I say they earn way too much ISK WH space/0.0/low sec already offeres way more than you can earn in a high sec level 4, there is no need to boost rewards. Originally by: Akita T And out of those thousands (actually, tens of thousands) of highsec players, how many CAN you trust to not just shoot you as soon as you get into w-space ? Take the risk. That is how corps/alliences are formed and friends made. People didnt seem to worry about trusting my nub alt to collect their level 4 salvage/loot, sell it and distribute the isk evenly. I even joined an enemy fleet in 0.0 to help take down a carrier neither of us liked. If you never take the risk then you are going to miss out on alot in this game.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.04 15:27:00 - [8] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: baltec1 WH space/0.0/low sec already offeres way more than you can earn in a high sec level 4, there is no need to boost rewards. Reality contradicts your statement. If w-space/0.0/lowsec would offer ENOUGH additional rewards (in light of the effort/work/time required) compared to L4 highsec missions, we'd see far more people doing it. Also, see answer to the first quote of this reply. I earn more 0.0 ratting than doing high sec missions for no effort at all.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.04 15:40:00 - [9] You just dont get it do you? You can have all the reward you want and it wont change a thing. Some people will never enter a place where they can get shot at by players. I once got an officer spawn in 0.0 that netted me around 1 billion isk. Honestly how much more reward could you want for 10 minutes work?
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.04 15:49:00 - [10] Ok lets try this from another angle. I own a nightmare for level 4s. If you nerf level 4s I will continue to use it for only them. If you then boost low sec missions I will still only use it in high sec. No reward will tempt me to use it in low sec/0.0/ WH. This is what people are like with their ravens, they do not want to risk losing their ship. This is why dispite being able to earn twice as much as a level 4, people will not enter 0.0/low sec
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.04 15:55:00 - [11] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: baltec1 Ok lets try this from another angle. I own a nightmare for level 4s. If you nerf level 4s I will continue to use it for only them. If you then boost low sec missions I will still only use it in high sec. No reward will tempt me to use it in low sec/0.0/ WH. Absurd counter-example... What about 100k LP and 150 mil + 150 mil time bonus for the SHABBIEST of L4s (and more than double for the harder ones) on top of insane ISK bounties and loot/salvage if you run it in lowsec 0.4 instead of highsec 0.5 ? Maybe you won't risk your multi-bil-fit Nightmare in lowsec to do L4s, but you will certainly GO and DO L4s in lowsec, in something cheaper. You can't honestly tell me you'd rather keep doing L4s in highsec in your Nighthmare, do you ? Yea because that is balanced and wont damage the econemy...
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.05 21:06:00 - [12] Edited by: baltec1 on 05/06/2009 21:06:57 Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 05/06/2009 18:15:59 Originally by: Mac Maniac CCP does not set trit or zydrive or morphite prices.. the players do. Actually, CCP sets the ROUGH price levels by setting the field - manufacture ratios, ore ratios, availability of materials, insurance system, etc. The players merely compete for the optimal ways (which might differ slightly from person to person) of obtaining and using said minerals for a profit, which results in the mineral prices we see. The players can only determine the price of each mineral TO A CERTAIN DEGREE, but it's only CCP that can make any changes that would result in any dramatic shifts in mineral prices. You are using seriously flawed logic to back up your theory. Using the same logic I can say that CCP is in control of all player alliences because they made the mechanics. The real reason why trit has a reasonably good price is because it is used to make just about everything, AKA, it is in very high demand. It is quite possible that supply could out strip demand in the future and bring the prices down to 1.0 isk per unit or it could go the other way if supply drops off. The reason why a Bhaalgorn is so expensive is due to a mixture of things, difficulty to obtain it, what the market price is, what people are willing to pay and what they think it should be worth. The most important of them being the market. The reason why t3 is so expensive is because the people who first got the stuff on the market put it up for as much as they thought they could get for it. After then everyone followed suit, putting up theirs for slightly less, myself included. The result is a highly inflated price which will slowly drop till it reaches somewhere closer to the actual build cost.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.05 22:21:00 - [13] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: baltec1 You are using seriously flawed logic to back up your theory. Using the same logic I can say that CCP is in control of all player alliences because they made the mechanics. No, using the same train of thought you could not possibly arrive at the conclusion that CCP is in control of any alliances whatsoever. Explane please because what you put down are the base mechanics of the game. Quote: The real reason why trit has a reasonably good price is because it is used to make just about everything, AKA, it is in very high demand. It is quite possible that supply could out strip demand in the future and bring the prices down to 1.0 isk per unit or it could go the other way if supply drops off. The real reason trit is so high in price over the base price is NOT ONLY because it's used in just about everything (pretty much every mineral is in almost every ship past a certain size), it's because it's used in just about everything IN SUCH LARGE QUANTITIES, and because the ways to obtain it in such large quantities are not profitable enough compared to obtaining something else instead, and trading some of it for the needed tritanium. Would Tritanium become far more easily obtainable (OR the rest of the minerals less easily obtainable), THEN and only then would Trit prices start dropping. So you agree then that when players supply more or demand from players goes down the prices will respond. Economics 101 and nothing to do with CCP taking charge. Quote: The reason why t3 is so expensive is because the people who first got the stuff on the market put it up for as much as they thought they could get for it. After then everyone followed suit, putting up theirs for slightly less, myself included. The result is a highly inflated price which will slowly drop till it reaches somewhere closer to the actual build cost. IT IS already close to the actual build cost. Have you even LOOKED at T3 and related component prices lately ? There's a handful of "chokepoint" materials that are very slowly dropping in price still, after some larger initial drops, but they're still a vast majority of the total cost of production. Oh, and the fact at least half of the subsystems barely sell for the component costs can't be healthy no matter how you look at it. Based upon your own words, this is how a player economy works. CCP are not in charge of how much we players will value the base minerals and thus the things that are made from them. However I would like to see the nubers you are using.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.06 06:32:00 - [14] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 06/06/2009 00:01:19 Originally by: baltec1 So you agree then that when players supply more or demand from players goes down the prices will respond. Economics 101 and nothing to do with CCP taking charge. Ok wiseguy, answer me this simple question : WHO EXACTLY decides how much the volume of 1 unit of Veldspar is (in other words, how many Veldspar units you can mine with a certain ship per cycle), who decides how many Veldspar units go into a refine batch and how much Tritanium one Veldspar batch yields upon refining ? Hint: it's NOT the players. Now, answer this : if one batch (333 units * 0.1 m^3/unit = 33.3 m^3) of Veldspar would no longer refine into 1000 Tritanium, but let's say that a refine batch would be just 200 units of 0.05 m^3/unit (so only 10 m^3) and refine into 1500 Tritanium... would the Tritanium price drop like a rock or stay exactly the same ? What will happen to goons if CCP put a cap on the number of pilots that can be in an allience at 500? See, we can both sit here and change the base mechanics of the game to make an arguement but they both hold no water in the real world. The economy you see in this game is entirely player run, CCP is only responsible for building the mechanics.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.30 19:19:00 - [15] Rather that go over again why your wrong I am just going to point you to the star wars galaxies forums which will show you just how good we have it here.

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