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Cao Cao
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Posted - 2004.09.08 20:33:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Cao Cao on 08/09/2004 22:10:30
The argument that I consistently see advanced on these forums is that pirates and piracy means "holdups" and "robbery" or "extortion" rather than killing and salvaging whatever is left in the wreckage.
Well, I hate to say it, but piracy can be either:
___________________________
Pirate. piĀrate. n. 1. One who preys on others; a plunderer.
Piracy. \Pi"ra*cy\, n. 1. The taking of property from others on the open sea by open violence; without lawful authority, and with intent to steal. 2. Robbery on the high seas; taking a ship away from the control of those who are legally entitled to it.
___________________________
Okay, so there you have it. According to the dictionary, piracy is simply the act of unlawfully taking someone else's property, intending to steal it, or hijacking a ship, or some other unlawful way of depriving people of their property.
The fact of the matter is that pirates attack and prey upon innocent people, depriving them of their ships, intending to take their belongings for themselves. Whatever it is that accomplishes that task - whether you do it by detaining them and extorting cash, or by simply destroying and salvaging the wreckage, it doesn't really matter. The end is the same - profit by stealing others' possessions.
The whole "I'm a pirate but you aren't" argument that is advanced by many on these forums is just plain pointless. Moreover, distinguishing a pirate from any other sort of person based on the fact that they claim territory or not (such as the case of GN and TPS) is also wrong. You can still be a pirate, i.e. robbing people and stealing from them (see above), while at the same time claiming a "home" territory. In fact, many examples of historical pirates in the real world serve this end as well - the Barbary pirates held and claimed a small island in the Mediterranean as their "home base."
So in conclusion, I ask you all to consider that there can be many gameplay styles that, while different, still amount to "piracy." Whether you extort money with the threat of war, blow up people and salvage their loot for profit, or hold up innocent ships and demand payment, it is all piracy according to the dictionary definition.
Your thoughts?
v/r
Cao Cao
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Cao Cao
|
Posted - 2004.09.08 20:33:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Cao Cao on 08/09/2004 22:10:30
The argument that I consistently see advanced on these forums is that pirates and piracy means "holdups" and "robbery" or "extortion" rather than killing and salvaging whatever is left in the wreckage.
Well, I hate to say it, but piracy can be either:
___________________________
Pirate. piĀrate. n. 1. One who preys on others; a plunderer.
Piracy. \Pi"ra*cy\, n. 1. The taking of property from others on the open sea by open violence; without lawful authority, and with intent to steal. 2. Robbery on the high seas; taking a ship away from the control of those who are legally entitled to it.
___________________________
Okay, so there you have it. According to the dictionary, piracy is simply the act of unlawfully taking someone else's property, intending to steal it, or hijacking a ship, or some other unlawful way of depriving people of their property.
The fact of the matter is that pirates attack and prey upon innocent people, depriving them of their ships, intending to take their belongings for themselves. Whatever it is that accomplishes that task - whether you do it by detaining them and extorting cash, or by simply destroying and salvaging the wreckage, it doesn't really matter. The end is the same - profit by stealing others' possessions.
The whole "I'm a pirate but you aren't" argument that is advanced by many on these forums is just plain pointless. Moreover, distinguishing a pirate from any other sort of person based on the fact that they claim territory or not (such as the case of GN and TPS) is also wrong. You can still be a pirate, i.e. robbing people and stealing from them (see above), while at the same time claiming a "home" territory. In fact, many examples of historical pirates in the real world serve this end as well - the Barbary pirates held and claimed a small island in the Mediterranean as their "home base."
So in conclusion, I ask you all to consider that there can be many gameplay styles that, while different, still amount to "piracy." Whether you extort money with the threat of war, blow up people and salvage their loot for profit, or hold up innocent ships and demand payment, it is all piracy according to the dictionary definition.
Your thoughts?
v/r
Cao Cao
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Vashy Stampede
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Posted - 2004.09.08 20:51:00 -
[3]
Sure I buy that. Not sure why you're doing this thread, though. On a slightly dif note, I'd like to say that ore thieving is also pirating. Not that I'm associated with that in anyway, but just wanted to point it out.
The best things in life aren't things. |
Vashy Stampede
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Posted - 2004.09.08 20:51:00 -
[4]
Sure I buy that. Not sure why you're doing this thread, though. On a slightly dif note, I'd like to say that ore thieving is also pirating. Not that I'm associated with that in anyway, but just wanted to point it out.
The best things in life aren't things. |
Weirda
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Posted - 2004.09.08 20:52:00 -
[5]
For the most part - Weirda agree with you, though whenever a post contain something from the dictionary Weirda generally shudder... Definitions tend to rob words from their context, and those definitions don't play nice with a lot of other forms of 'piracy' prevalent today (software/music/etc...)
Have to take exception with:
 Originally by: Cao Cao
The fact of the matter is that pirates attack and prey upon innocent people....
... There are no innocents in EvE... 
but seriously though - arguing 'What makes a pirate' on the forums IS pointless (as you say) - because it is just semantics... and people generally resort to semantics when they either A) don't have a point or B) are wrong....
The most important thing is that people do what they enjoy in EvE - as they will stay in the universe longer which is better for all of us. Group A shouldn't have any distinct advantages over Group B (carebears vs pirates) other then the advantage that come from being in control of the situation - and the advantage of experience. Hopefully people can keep 'griefing' (very different from piracy really in a strange way) to a minimum and everyone can enjoy thing whatever their fate (or the fate of their ship) may end up being!
While some of the 'balance' changes have made things difficult (Matari flying Amarr here), personally EvE is becoming more interesting because there are more options, and there is more TIME to actually execute a battle strategy (be it 1v1 or 100v100).
Anyhow - maybe strayed from the point...
Good post Cao Cao. 
--
Thread Killer
<END TRANSMISSION> |
Weirda
|
Posted - 2004.09.08 20:52:00 -
[6]
For the most part - Weirda agree with you, though whenever a post contain something from the dictionary Weirda generally shudder... Definitions tend to rob words from their context, and those definitions don't play nice with a lot of other forms of 'piracy' prevalent today (software/music/etc...)
Have to take exception with:
Originally by: Cao Cao
The fact of the matter is that pirates attack and prey upon innocent people....
... There are no innocents in EvE...
but seriously though - arguing 'What makes a pirate' on the forums IS pointless (as you say) - because it is just semantics... and people generally resort to semantics when they either A) don't have a point or B) are wrong....
The most important thing is that people do what they enjoy in EvE - as they will stay in the universe longer which is better for all of us. Group A shouldn't have any distinct advantages over Group B (carebears vs pirates) other then the advantage that come from being in control of the situation - and the advantage of experience. Hopefully people can keep 'griefing' (very different from piracy really in a strange way) to a minimum and everyone can enjoy thing whatever their fate (or the fate of their ship) may end up being!
While some of the 'balance' changes have made things difficult (Matari flying Amarr here), personally EvE is becoming more interesting because there are more options, and there is more TIME to actually execute a battle strategy (be it 1v1 or 100v100).
Anyhow - maybe strayed from the point...
Good post Cao Cao.
--
Thread Killer
<END TRANSMISSION> |
Omega Man
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Posted - 2004.09.08 21:04:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Omega Man on 08/09/2004 21:06:05
i dont actually see anything about blowing the ship up and hoping something interesting floats to the surface afterwards but other than that, yeah fine, i can see how your dictionary definition works well.
edited to spell dictionary correctly
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Omega Man
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Posted - 2004.09.08 21:04:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Omega Man on 08/09/2004 21:06:05
i dont actually see anything about blowing the ship up and hoping something interesting floats to the surface afterwards but other than that, yeah fine, i can see how your dictionary definition works well.
edited to spell dictionary correctly
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Zypho
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Posted - 2004.09.08 22:48:00 -
[9]
camping gates, chasing prey, killing innocents, stealing loot, randsoming, ****ing off people, getting hate mail, anything to **** off other players or concord. Thats what piracy means to me
*** Proud Member Of The Curse Alliance *** |
Zypho
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Posted - 2004.09.08 22:48:00 -
[10]
camping gates, chasing prey, killing innocents, stealing loot, randsoming, ****ing off people, getting hate mail, anything to **** off other players or concord. Thats what piracy means to me
*** Proud Member Of The Curse Alliance *** |
Daakkon
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Posted - 2004.09.08 22:51:00 -
[11]
<---- is a pirate
Avast ye scurvy dogs!! Thar be pirates abound.. Arrr!
www.dark-cartel.com |
Daakkon
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Posted - 2004.09.08 22:51:00 -
[12]
<---- is a pirate
Avast ye scurvy dogs!! Thar be pirates abound.. Arrr!
www.dark-cartel.com |
Sun Ra
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Posted - 2004.09.09 08:01:00 -
[13]
<---- Drunk
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Sun Ra
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Posted - 2004.09.09 08:01:00 -
[14]
<---- Drunk
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Miso
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Posted - 2004.09.09 08:35:00 -
[15]
Piracy is a point of view not an attainable state.
My view is this: PvP'er=Pirate.
Its simple and makes things alot easier. I leave people with more time than I have to argue a toss over what they want to call themselves/each other etc.
--------------------------------------------
Dead
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Miso
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Posted - 2004.09.09 08:35:00 -
[16]
Piracy is a point of view not an attainable state.
My view is this: PvP'er=Pirate.
Its simple and makes things alot easier. I leave people with more time than I have to argue a toss over what they want to call themselves/each other etc.
--------------------------------------------
Dead
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Nafri
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Posted - 2004.09.09 08:37:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Daakkon
<---- is a pirate
Avast ye scurvy dogs!! Thar be pirates abound.. Arrr!
sometimes i like the firewall at my parents PC, it blocks your sig
well what should i say? yaaaaarrr!
Wanna fly with me?
|
Nafri
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Posted - 2004.09.09 08:37:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Daakkon
<---- is a pirate
Avast ye scurvy dogs!! Thar be pirates abound.. Arrr!
sometimes i like the firewall at my parents PC, it blocks your sig
well what should i say? yaaaaarrr!
Wanna fly with me?
|
Brian Detaah
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Posted - 2004.09.09 09:13:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Miso
Piracy is a point of view not an attainable state.
My view is this: PvP'er=Pirate.
Its simple and makes things alot easier. I leave people with more time than I have to argue a toss over what they want to call themselves/each other etc.
Well, the meaning of a word is in its use, so from all the people (me included), who now are pirates.....YARR!
------------------------------------------------
`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'
`The question is,' said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many different things.'
`The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master - - that's all.'
|
Brian Detaah
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Posted - 2004.09.09 09:13:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Miso
Piracy is a point of view not an attainable state.
My view is this: PvP'er=Pirate.
Its simple and makes things alot easier. I leave people with more time than I have to argue a toss over what they want to call themselves/each other etc.
Well, the meaning of a word is in its use, so from all the people (me included), who now are pirates.....YARR!
------------------------------------------------
`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'
`The question is,' said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many different things.'
`The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master - - that's all.'
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Schani Kratnorr
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Posted - 2004.09.09 09:22:00 -
[21]
The "pirate" label is one used by the representatives of one side in a conflict to describe the operatives of the other.
The same is true for "terrorist"...
--
"I am an expert in not caring. The trick is to stop giving a rat's ass about anyone else and start thinking about what YOU want, what YOU diserve, what the world ows YOU!" - Bender |
Schani Kratnorr
|
Posted - 2004.09.09 09:22:00 -
[22]
The "pirate" label is one used by the representatives of one side in a conflict to describe the operatives of the other.
The same is true for "terrorist"...
--
"I am an expert in not caring. The trick is to stop giving a rat's ass about anyone else and start thinking about what YOU want, what YOU diserve, what the world ows YOU!" - Bender |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2004.09.09 09:40:00 -
[23]
hello
.
|
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2004.09.09 09:40:00 -
[24]
hello
.
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.09.09 09:51:00 -
[25]
EVE is so limited on "real" pirating aspekt ... 
you cant frosefuly hijack ship - this option is to volnerable to exploit and inshurance froad - and no one want theyr ship lost without insurance do they ... carebears 
you cant hijack cargo whitout popping ship = meaning loosing 80% of cargo anyway... in JG we got lil device that can scoop things from other ships cargo = perfekt pirating tool!
but in EVE its hard to impliment due to reactions of Carebears - no one wants they cargo hoijacked either - even if they dont kill the ship/pod
Actualy only way some one can obtain other's property is either Blowing up the ship, or try to negoatiate whit victim
usualy it is the first option - due to 100% inshurance
and on rare ocasions its the second one - due to implants or named stuff on board
This has lead to situation werre general pirat player base dont even consider to negotiate with victim - alredy guessing the outcome and popping the ship .... 
-------------------------------------------
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.09.09 09:51:00 -
[26]
EVE is so limited on "real" pirating aspekt ...
you cant frosefuly hijack ship - this option is to volnerable to exploit and inshurance froad - and no one want theyr ship lost without insurance do they ... carebears
you cant hijack cargo whitout popping ship = meaning loosing 80% of cargo anyway... in JG we got lil device that can scoop things from other ships cargo = perfekt pirating tool!
but in EVE its hard to impliment due to reactions of Carebears - no one wants they cargo hoijacked either - even if they dont kill the ship/pod
Actualy only way some one can obtain other's property is either Blowing up the ship, or try to negoatiate whit victim
usualy it is the first option - due to 100% inshurance
and on rare ocasions its the second one - due to implants or named stuff on board
This has lead to situation werre general pirat player base dont even consider to negotiate with victim - alredy guessing the outcome and popping the ship ....
-------------------------------------------
|
Seleene
|
Posted - 2004.09.09 10:16:00 -
[27]
<------ Ex-Pirate.
Hi, Drunk! 
-
T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today! |
Seleene
|
Posted - 2004.09.09 10:16:00 -
[28]
<------ Ex-Pirate.
Hi, Drunk!
-
T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today! |
drunkenmaster
|
Posted - 2004.09.09 10:27:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Seleene
<------ Ex-Pirate.
Hi, Drunk!
hello.
How's space treatin' ya?
.
|
drunkenmaster
|
Posted - 2004.09.09 10:27:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Seleene
<------ Ex-Pirate.
Hi, Drunk!
hello.
How's space treatin' ya?
.
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