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FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1522
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 13:48:00 -
[61] - Quote
Yes, you can avoid opening your static. However, it's entirely possible for multiple holes to open in your system in a very short period of time. Recently had three K162s open in 30 minutes. Things got...hectic. It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
Chrisfaren
Abyssal Frontier Jovian Empire
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 14:04:00 -
[62] - Quote
4 pages of this? guess I'll post a reply allso then...
A wormhole will have one or more static holes, this means you will allways have a exit or more. Howevere as written many times before, these will only "open" when you initiate warp towards them, thus making it probeable as a K162 wherver it might spawn on the other side.
Yes, if you are able to controll your wormhole it is relatively safe, keeping "closed" wormholes only. BUT, you can never know when you get a incoming hole, or more. This will happen allmost dayly. And they might probe down your static and open it and your day of playing may be ruined :p
After living in a wormhole for quite some time I have gotten used to spamming d-scan all the time, it comes natural, this way you can sometimes pick up a unknown ship or probe and you knnow you have visitors. Most of us will allso pop a probe out every 15 minutes or so to check for new signatures.
Living in a WH is not easy mode by far. But it can be made comfortable with the methods mentioned above.
Having the wormholes allways open in both ends will basically just make it "known space" without local. In other words HELL compared to the rest of eve. |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
354
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 17:46:00 -
[63] - Quote
Is there some kind of known frequency or bias in the incoming vs outgoing wormholes? |
Bernie Nator
Talocan Hive Talocan United
277
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 18:04:00 -
[64] - Quote
Miilla wrote:Is there some kind of known frequency or bias in the incoming vs outgoing wormholes?
They usually come at night.
Usually. |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
354
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 18:06:00 -
[65] - Quote
Bernie Nator wrote:Miilla wrote:Is there some kind of known frequency or bias in the incoming vs outgoing wormholes? They usually come at night. Usually.
lol , but seriously , anybody know a bias in the entry exit ratios? |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
202
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 18:29:00 -
[66] - Quote
Miilla wrote:Bernie Nator wrote:Miilla wrote:Is there some kind of known frequency or bias in the incoming vs outgoing wormholes? They usually come at night. Usually. lol , but seriously , anybody know a bias in the entry exit ratios?
Aside from the statics? 1:1 since an entry WH is someone elses EXIT? |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
354
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 18:36:00 -
[67] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Miilla wrote:Bernie Nator wrote:Miilla wrote:Is there some kind of known frequency or bias in the incoming vs outgoing wormholes? They usually come at night. Usually. lol , but seriously , anybody know a bias in the entry exit ratios? Aside from the statics? 1:1 since an entry WH is someone elses EXIT?
Isn't the K162 the generic exit? Sometimes it is empire facing sometimes it is inbound to the W-space system.
Isn't that how it works? K162 end is the exit and the other side is the are incomming, so on that basis, what is that bias in which side is the K162's? Do I understand it correctly? |
Splodger
Ausbruch
24
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 18:40:00 -
[68] - Quote
Bernie Nator wrote:Miilla wrote:Is there some kind of known frequency or bias in the incoming vs outgoing wormholes? They usually come at night. Usually.
lol love it |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
354
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 18:41:00 -
[69] - Quote
Splodger wrote:Bernie Nator wrote:Miilla wrote:Is there some kind of known frequency or bias in the incoming vs outgoing wormholes? They usually come at night. Usually. lol love it
What is day and what is night in space? |
Splodger
Ausbruch
24
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 18:50:00 -
[70] - Quote
Miilla wrote:Splodger wrote:Bernie Nator wrote:Miilla wrote:Is there some kind of known frequency or bias in the incoming vs outgoing wormholes? They usually come at night. Usually. lol love it What is day and what is night in space?
Miilla, i dont know if your serious about whole wormhole space malarky, but I suggest a good start would be Lorkin Desal's guide.
k162 is indeed the exit, the rest is speculation on %'s of inc and outgoing but some people have solid theories... but then again they are just that... theories. RNG is RNG |
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Olan Chang
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.05.14 18:51:00 -
[71] - Quote
As far as I know, all sigs work like that, they will only be initiated if someone warp to then. It indeed makes things easier when running site in your wormhole; close all incoming wh, close your static, you can be sure your static doesn't lead anywhere.
Note that you can rely on the static being close only in your own system since we lost the jump stats. In the past, if there were no k162 wormhole (except the one you used) and no jump in the last 24 hours, you knew the static was closed. Nowadays, you have to assume all static wormhole, other than your own, are open, and you can't always reroll wormholes far away from your home.
However, even if all statics were always open, it wouldn't make w-space more dangerous. You would just need to reroll for a quiet system and keep a picket there looking for probes on d-scan. The real danger are the fresh incoming wormholes that you don't have yet the position, that a fleet might used to drop on your sieged dreads and triaged carriers in the next minute. |
Bernie Nator
Talocan Hive Talocan United
277
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 20:10:00 -
[72] - Quote
Allow me a minute to do a basic breakdown of hole classifications.
All holes begin somewhere and pop out at another. Let's say you've warped to a hole in high sec and it reads "Wormhole R943". You do a quick info check on it and it tells you that this wormhole has about a day left and has not been destabilized. The numbers tell you that this is where the hole's beginning was. Without even jumping in, the hole on the other side will be a k162. K162 is the classification given to all wormhole ends. This is where having a basic knowledge of wormhole space comes in handy. A k162 from hi, low and null does not need to be warped to for it to spawn into a wormhole. However, a wormhole in wormhole space does need to be warped to for it to form a connection to another system.
This is why you have to check every new signature that your prober catches on scan. The likelihood of a new signature being a k162 is fairly high, although it doesn't have to be a k162. It could just be a periodic hole leading out to a different system. Hence why checking the classification on the hole is important.
I trust this will help enlighten people that aren't sure on how connections work. |
Phrank Phish
Black Viper Nomads
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 20:10:00 -
[73] - Quote
Miilla wrote:Isn't that how it works? K162 end is the exit and the other side is the are incomming, so on that basis, what is that bias in which side is the K162's? Do I understand it correctly?
A K162 is the arse end of another wormhole, every other type (whatever the code) spawns a K162 at its destination.
EG: Your C2 - C4 should be a y683 in your system but on the C4 side it will be a k162. Because the back end is allways a k162
While a C4 - C2 will be an N766 hole in the C4 but in your C2 it will be a K162 because now your system is the rear end.
You could go through every system and count up how many statics open to how many destinations (not counting the random spawns) and work out the likelyhood of chains (c4+ tend to come down through C3- to reach empire, so your more likely to get traffic) to come up with a number of possible incoming holes.
Or, just assume K162's will be opening at random and deal with them when they arrive.
Edit: Forgot to add, K162's are allways a size 10, while other holes can range in size from 10 to 2.2. And with practice you can tell where a hole goes just by its colour. C1 dark blue with green verticle stripe, C2 dark blue, C3 white, C4 green, C5 orange, C6 red. |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
354
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 20:13:00 -
[74] - Quote
Phrank Phish wrote:Miilla wrote:Isn't that how it works? K162 end is the exit and the other side is the are incomming, so on that basis, what is that bias in which side is the K162's? Do I understand it correctly? A K162 is the arse end of another wormhole, every other type (whatever the code) spawns a K162 at its destination. EG: Your C2 - C4 should be a y683 in your system but on the C4 side it will be a k162. Because the back end is allways a k162 While a C4 - C2 will be an N766 hole in the C4 but in your C2 it will be a K162 because now your system is the rear end. You could go through every system and count up how many statics open to how many destinations (not counting the random spawns) and work out the likelyhood of chains (c4+ tend to come down through C3- to reach empire, so your more likely to get traffic) to come up with a number of possible incoming holes. Or, just assume K162's will be opening at random and deal with them when they arrive.
That's what I said, K162's are the exits of wormholes, hence theyre called generic exits, they are the outbound side of a spawned wormhole.
I seem to find more OUTGOING (non K162's from inside the W-space system) than INCOMING (k162 inside my w-system from outside). Just wondering if that was the way it was in most cases. |
Bernie Nator
Talocan Hive Talocan United
277
|
Posted - 2012.05.14 20:19:00 -
[75] - Quote
Miilla wrote:Phrank Phish wrote:Miilla wrote:Isn't that how it works? K162 end is the exit and the other side is the are incomming, so on that basis, what is that bias in which side is the K162's? Do I understand it correctly? A K162 is the arse end of another wormhole, every other type (whatever the code) spawns a K162 at its destination. EG: Your C2 - C4 should be a y683 in your system but on the C4 side it will be a k162. Because the back end is allways a k162 While a C4 - C2 will be an N766 hole in the C4 but in your C2 it will be a K162 because now your system is the rear end. You could go through every system and count up how many statics open to how many destinations (not counting the random spawns) and work out the likelyhood of chains (c4+ tend to come down through C3- to reach empire, so your more likely to get traffic) to come up with a number of possible incoming holes. Or, just assume K162's will be opening at random and deal with them when they arrive. That's what I said, K162's are the exits of wormholes, hence theyre called generic exits, they are the outbound side of a spawned wormhole. I seem to find more OUTGOING (non K162's from inside the W-space system) than INCOMING (k162 inside my w-system from outside). Just wondering if that was the way it was in most cases.
Sometimes systems can get a decent number of incoming k162s and others it can get a large number of periodics. The most I've seen in a day is 7, but it might be possible for more to exist. I imagine its how holes are coded. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Exhale.
25
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 12:15:00 -
[76] - Quote
Doesn't know how wormholes work, attempt to make claims about wormhole space
lol |
Bernie Nator
Talocan Hive Talocan United
277
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 12:17:00 -
[77] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Doesn't know how wormholes work, attempt to make claims about wormhole space
lol I feel a link to an advice meme coming on... |
Nathan Jameson
Talocan Dominion Talocan United
388
|
Posted - 2012.05.15 13:59:00 -
[78] - Quote
Bernie Nator wrote:I feel a link to an advice meme coming on...
knows nothing about wormholes... |
El Geo
Pathfinders.
30
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 16:24:00 -
[79] - Quote
look up arek'jaalen projects (like compass and snapshot) personally, i cant see how you would make a door without an exit (logic says one can't exist without the other)
for those of you trying to say that you know this 'fact' that k162's only spawn when the other side is warped to LOL, you have no facts, you have only your opinion
ty and good day |
Nathan Jameson
Talocan Dominion Talocan United
388
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 17:18:00 -
[80] - Quote
El Geo wrote:for those of you trying to say that you know this 'fact' that k162's only spawn when the other side is warped to LOL, you have no facts, you have only your opinion
Sure...if you ignore the evidence posted on this thread and the Arek'Jalaan project, sure. |
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Bernie Nator
Talocan Hive Talocan United
277
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 18:12:00 -
[81] - Quote
Hey, I wonder if any Arek'jaalen project leads are in this thread... |
El Geo
Pathfinders.
30
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 10:10:00 -
[82] - Quote
Nathan Jameson wrote:El Geo wrote:for those of you trying to say that you know this 'fact' that k162's only spawn when the other side is warped to LOL, you have no facts, you have only your opinion Sure...if you ignore the evidence posted on this thread and the Arek'Jalaan project, sure.
Snapshot didnt have enough players to cover the whole of highsec, conclusive evidence just isnt there atm. So yeah, its still a matter of opinion NOT evidence.
Infact i spoke to faulx the other day about this same subject, and hes still running tests.
/me goes onto sisi, scans down numerous k162's, evidence? |
Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative.
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 13:46:00 -
[83] - Quote
Actually I know for a fact.
We recently collapsed every link in our wh to run some sites and mid-way through running had a wh link spawn to us and another corp (who I know from the AHARM public channel) tried to jump us (unsucessfully as we monitor sigs whilest running). On talking to them they'd done the same as us - collapsed all links, left their static un-warped to and run sites, then once sites were done warped to their static, which then linked to us, looking for some pew before bed and we were the first system they linked to. |
Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University Ivy League
37
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 13:53:00 -
[84] - Quote
Taz Edenrunner wrote:Noone can stop a WH from opening by not warping to it from their direction, someone can open the WH from the other side of the connection.
If you close a WH to force another to respwan and do not warp to it, there is nothing stopping someone on the other side from scanning it down and warping to it causing the WH to open
No. Check the Arek'Jaalan snapshoot project results. |
El Geo
Pathfinders.
30
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 14:20:00 -
[85] - Quote
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:Taz Edenrunner wrote:Noone can stop a WH from opening by not warping to it from their direction, someone can open the WH from the other side of the connection.
If you close a WH to force another to respwan and do not warp to it, there is nothing stopping someone on the other side from scanning it down and warping to it causing the WH to open No. Check the Arek'Jaalan snapshoot project results.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Project_Snapshot |
Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
36
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 20:36:00 -
[86] - Quote
Miilla wrote:Hayaishi wrote:Miilla wrote:is it true that wormholes when formed, don't actually open the other side until they're jumped through or are both sides open on forming?
can somebody explain how wormhole formation works regarding entry and exit on forming. I'm sure it's documented somewhere. I know it, but wont tell you. Fine, then if its true, why wouldn't both ends open on forming? Won't that make W-space too safe for those inhabiting it? ( I am currently habiting W-space :) ) I feel both ends should be opened (connected) once formed and thus the people inside the W-space cannot control their safety by "not opening" the newly formed Wormhole. It sounds like Easy mode to me in W-space.
There is a difference between a WH signature and the WH itself. When you scan, you are scanning the wormhole signature. When you click Warp to, the WH will spawn. It will not spawn until someone warps to it. |
Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
36
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 20:39:00 -
[87] - Quote
Taz Edenrunner wrote:Noone can stop a WH from opening by not warping to it from their direction, someone can open the WH from the other side of the connection.
If you close a WH to force another to respwan and do not warp to it, there is nothing stopping someone on the other side from scanning it down and warping to it causing the WH to open
Nub |
T G Reaper
Knysna Grim Reapers
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 21:20:00 -
[88] - Quote
the only thing i gathered from this thread is that the guys from the enviromental management team corp speaks in local in wh space and thinks they are safe if they keep their static closed. anyone maybe have a locus sig for me while i gets my cloaky loki refueled? |
Kazu'ul
OMG PWNAGE
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 08:55:00 -
[89] - Quote
Tell me if I'm wrong, but the existence of a wormhole signature wherever it leads to allows it to be scanned, and thus warped to, and thus 'spawned'.
Sooooo,, how are you 'safe' by not warping to your static? Wherever your static links to also has a sig in that system, right? One that can be scanned and warped to.... Or is it just a matter of the link-to system not having the wormhole sig until someone from origin system warps to the hole? That's the only possibility I can think of.
It doesn't seem to make w-space 'safe' but rather 'slightly safer' as there is 1 less link to you. As others have stated, there's always the possiblity that an exit hole will appear in your system from J155YARR.
I love talking in wormhole local too. Lots of friendly chat there. Sometimes I even sell contracts to visitors. |
Kalel Nimrott
Wishful Desires Inc. Armada Assail
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 10:06:00 -
[90] - Quote
Kazu'ul wrote:Tell me if I'm wrong, but the existence of a wormhole signature wherever it leads to allows it to be scanned, and thus warped to, and thus 'spawned'.
Sooooo,, how are you 'safe' by not warping to your static? Wherever your static links to also has a sig in that system, right? One that can be scanned and warped to.... Or is it just a matter of the link-to system not having the wormhole sig until someone from origin system warps to the hole? That's the only possibility I can think of.
It doesn't seem to make w-space 'safe' but rather 'slightly safer' as there is 1 less link to you. As others have stated, there's always the possiblity that an exit hole will appear in your system from J155YARR.
I love talking in wormhole local too. Lots of friendly chat there. Sometimes I even sell contracts to visitors.
The targeted system doesn`t have a local signature of the wh until someone warps to the original signature in the origin system. In other words, K162 are created by players warping to the XXXX (I.E. K346) wormhole. The only case that this happens. Other signatures are created randomly. |
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