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Mazzarins Demise
Profit Development and Research Association
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Posted - 2009.05.27 06:06:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Mazzarins Demise on 27/05/2009 06:06:48 CCP is in business to make money, and they reserve the right to do whatever they want to their product if the ends justify the means. CCP doesn't and shouldn't listen to all demands that meet their doorstep, most players can't see beyond their own desires for changes, but you certainly cannot deny they are one of the better companies in the MMO market when it comes to listening and hearing out their player-base. The CSM is the most obvious example of that.
It's just the natural progression of the product. While your qualms do have merit, and it might seem the harshness of the universe seems to be becoming less harsh, there really isn't naught you can do about it posting here.
If you really are adamant about your opinions, then I challenge you to go through the CSM with some changes to bring the harshness back into EVE, or better still, buy a couple tickets to the fanfest and talk with a developer face to face.
Beats sitting on your ass.
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Tractormech
Caldari Fortune's Fools
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Posted - 2009.05.27 06:11:00 -
[32]
I think what the OP is saying is this:
Once all the shiny new space mmos hit the market this year, CCP can kiss the majority of thier new subs goodbye and then some. The old guard is the only thing that will be keeping them afloat. So best not to drive all thats left away and give them some toys too.
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Ather Ialeas
Amarr the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.05.27 06:14:00 -
[33]
In this thread someone learned what the purpose of a business is. Amazing.
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Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.27 06:17:00 -
[34]
*Takes notes*
Though on a personal level, if people still cry piracy is still alive
Pomp FTW!!! |
Aldarica
Spinal Discipline
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Posted - 2009.05.27 06:30:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Akita T There's at least one other (fantasy setting) game that could be a somewhat dorect competitor, but from the looks of it, it's heading on a similar path to Darkfall.
I'm just curious... you think of Mortal online?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.05.27 08:22:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Akita T on 27/05/2009 08:23:47
Originally by: Aldarica
Originally by: Akita T There's at least one other (fantasy setting) game that could be a somewhat direct competitor, but from the looks of it, it's heading on a similar path to Darkfall.
I'm just curious... you think of Mortal online?
Ah, yes, that was it.
Originally by: RJ Nobel
Originally by: Akita T There's no SERIOUS (direct) competitor for EVE's particular niche yet.
If, in your opinion, none of those games will compete with Eve, then what exactly is Eve's niche? What is it that Eve does that no other game could possibly offer?
MANDATORY / THE NICHE :
* single world-wide shard, no "region instancing" either, persistent world with no resets of any kind whatsoever * time-based "leveling" (or no leveling at all) as opposed to grind-based leveling, no "level cap" * full loot and non-consensual PVP almost everywhere, with very few and small "safe" zones * ways to earn a respectable income that are not combat-based
OPTIONAL / PERKS :
* nice graphics, but not requiring a top-of-the-line machine * sci-fi (preferably involving spaceships) * dynamic world (EVE doesn't really have this though, I wouldn't call adding areas "dynamic", just "expanding") * backstory-altering gameplay (EVE used to have this to some degree, sadly no longer really does)
Quote: Even if we accept your concept that Eve has a unique and irreplaceable niche, that still doesn't exclude any other MMO from being a serious competitor. I believe that most players select an MMO because it's fun to play. Niche features might factor into the enjoyment formula, but I doubt that many players would reject a quality MMO simply because it wasn't in their chosen genre.
I hate a game where I have to pick a server to play. I want all the others that play it to be able to come in contact with me at any given time, and (limited) "server transfers" won't cut it. I want my performance to not solely depend on the amount of time I spent playing in some specific way (grinding XP). I want to be able to hunt down anybody I want (or hire somebody to do it), even if the "window of opportunity" or penalties (or cost) for doing so would be relatively harsh. And finally, I want to have the CHOICE to not engage in warfare of any kind if I want to earn wealth within the game's mechanics.
As for the mentioned perks, well, they're optional... so I can live without them.
If any of the above mandatory conditions / niche criteria are not met, there is only a limited amount of "fun" I derive from that game, certainly NOT enough to make me want to actually pay to play it. There are plenty of free alternatives that fail most (or all) of the "perks" and some of the "mandatory" checklist items, so my "lust for novelty" is satiated there free of charge. I'd pick EVE over any pay-to-enjoy-playing game that fails the main checklist, at least in the long run, no matter how awesome the game would otherwise be (I'd probably try it for a while, keeping the EVE account active or on standby, but that's about it).
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Polly Prissypantz
Dingleberry Appreciation Society
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Posted - 2009.05.27 08:30:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Gneeznow pretty good post and accurate from my view, however its gonna be drowned out by fanboys and can-i-have-your-stuff parrots in no time, posting anything like this on eve-o (especially gd) is a wasted effort
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.05.27 09:24:00 -
[38]
Originally by: harogen
Originally by: Grez Edited by: Grez on 27/05/2009 02:15:58 More subs = more money = more staff = more stuff.
Stop whining.
p.s. You have no understanding of how software development works. Programmers != content creators.
At what point was I complaining about content 0_o
Ship models, split weapon ships, piracy nerfs... to name but 3.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.05.27 09:37:00 -
[39]
It's pretty naive to think that an application as vastly complex as EvE can ever be remotely bug free. Or that with such a diverse, intense, ingenious player base it can ever be even close to "perfectly" balanced
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Marie Duvolle
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Posted - 2009.05.27 09:49:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Marie Duvolle on 27/05/2009 09:49:59 I DO hope that jumpgate and the other space MMO become a vast success and that EVE loses a lot of customers to those games as they got tired of getting blown up and having to think about what they're doing. Because then CCP might realise that the only way to survive is to stay true to the original ideas.
Don't stir the hornet's nest |
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Endel
Quam Singulari Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.05.27 10:36:00 -
[41]
4th year running for me and I am still happy. Sure, there are many things I would like different, fixed or added to the game. But there are many and many things already in game that I like, apparently. Why else would I play :)
Thing is, every type of software you produce for such a large community will never ever be perfect. There are exactly so many opinions as there are customers, and some more. As the game expands, grows, gets new content, it's harder to balance and more complex to keep things running smoothly. But without new content people would lose interest. See how many old players ask for new ships, new items, new abilities, new goals.
I too get frustrated when some bug or some other "feature" ruins my plans. Be it crash on jump or lag in fights.
I waited 3 years for minmatar dread to become something more then simply vertical. I trained torpedoes and 2 weeks later they got nerfed. Amarr waited a long time for buff. Gallente blasterboats were the pwn in close combat. Things change but they never will be perfect, no matter how many people work on the issues. That's software for masses.
In short - I like Eve as it is, with all the bugs, features, nerfs, buffs, crashes and whatever there is to be.
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dor amwar
Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.05.27 10:47:00 -
[42]
there is this upcoming also
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Vain Eldritch
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.27 11:10:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Vain Eldritch on 27/05/2009 11:15:49 [ Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 27/05/2009 02:46:04 If Eve loses its image as a more hardcore alternative to other MMOs then it wouldn't surprise me at all if the subscriber rate started to fall as people came to see Eve as just a generic space game.
I'll agree with this, not the least because I came to Eve Online after a trying a series of MMORPG's and finding them too "lightweight" in terms of complexity, and too demanding in terms of time require at the keyboard. I've passed through MORRPG's UO -> UO/EQ -> SWG -> WoW -> AoC -> Eve Online.
I'm hoping Eve will be my home for several years as it has two things going for it - complexity and a skill system that does not require me to neglect either my work or my family to progress. In short, Eve is ideal for my life style - I have a demanding high pressure job that I enjoy, a wife and two great kids I love above all else, and I have an interest in virtual worlds and the communities that spring up therein. I also happen to find joy in complexity.
As such, I'd hate for Eve to dull the complexity edge it has.
You know, I have a theory about the reason Eve has been seeing in recent years a steady increase in subscriber numbers: it's people like me, who are jaded by the flashy lights and vacuity of 99% of MMORPG's currently "out there". We trickle into Eve, a steady stream of tired, bedraggled virtual wanderers sick and tired of shallow experiences that demand more and more or our time in RL when, as we get older, we have less and less time to give.
I may be utterly wrong and this could be my uniques case and perspective. So be it. At least I am happy here - it's not perfect and things never are, but at least I feel comfortable here in a game I can mould around my life.
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Essence Praetor
Retribution. Inc.
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Posted - 2009.05.27 12:59:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Essence Praetor on 27/05/2009 12:59:40
Ever consider that CCP is ahead of the curve.? Know exactly what MMO's are on the way and possible have had analysts attempt to forecast how all these new MMO's will effect their player base?
And then . . . suddenly release ambulation and bam . . . In the eyes of the internet community people will be like "Wow. Awesome!"
Why release ambulation now? These people are in a business. Right now EVE memberships are pretty high. Smart business sense suggests that they should wait to deliver ambulation at just the right instance and keep it in their back pocket until then.
For ever Jaded 03 player there are 10 eager wanna-be newbies dead set on becoming just as over loaded with SP as that 03 player. They pay the bills, and ironically most of them are very happy with wormholes, complexes, new missions and BS spawns in low sec.
How do you think they are gonna feel when they can pay for strippers in a space station while we try to wardec and station camp them
If you think Eve is dieing, in reality its just cause your getting bored with it. Not everyone else shares your opinion . . .
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My LittleFriend
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Posted - 2009.05.27 13:56:00 -
[45]
Edited by: My LittleFriend on 27/05/2009 13:57:01 Edited by: My LittleFriend on 27/05/2009 13:56:36
Originally by: Akita T MANDATORY / THE NICHE :
* single world-wide shard, no "region instancing" either, persistent world with no resets of any kind whatsoever * time-based "leveling" (or no leveling at all) as opposed to grind-based leveling, skill not class based * full loot and non-consensual PVP almost everywhere, with very few and small "safe" zones * ways to earn a respectable income that are not combat-based
OPTIONAL / PERKS :
* nice graphics, but not requiring a top-of-the-line machine * sci-fi (preferably involving spaceships) * extensive customisation of "avatar" performance via fully tradeable items * dynamic world (EVE doesn't really have this though, I wouldn't call adding areas "dynamic", just "expanding") * backstory-altering gameplay (EVE used to have this to some degree, sadly no longer really does) * ability to pay the subscription with in-game wealth WHILE NOT being the kind of game where RL capital has to be constantly invested in order to progress (example : Entropia Universe)
personally the things that make eve unique are:
*full loot combined with expansive empire shaping and territory control, in short the opportunity for true loss and gain, i know of no other game where 3 years of work done by 3000+ toons can be taken in a matter of weeks, without recourse except manning up and taking it back. pvp almost anywhere obviously has to come with such a system.
*no instancing within a shard...i really don't care if there are different servers, you just shouldn't be safe in dungeons/missions...there is after all, more than 1 eve cluster
*market is nearly 100% player driven with high volumes and no "instant delivery" banking or auction houses. creates a true economy with trade, couriering, etc.
thats basically it for me the space thing is cool and all, i'll take it over magical creatures for sure but its not really important. time based leveling? eh...not so much a fan, it changes the demographic a bit for toward the older crowd but otherwise its mostly a hindrance as your day to day life in eve can only have 2 goals, money or pvp, i kinda like having training in there as an option for slow pvp days. lack of classes is of course good but eve isn't the only game to take the skill > class route and some have made the leveling less of a grind, i.e. your recon skill is determined by how much time you spend fighting in recons.
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RJ Nobel
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Posted - 2009.05.27 17:13:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Akita T
MANDATORY / THE NICHE :
* single world-wide shard, no "region instancing" either, persistent world with no resets of any kind whatsoever * time-based "leveling" (or no leveling at all) as opposed to grind-based leveling, skill not class based * full loot and non-consensual PVP almost everywhere, with very few and small "safe" zones * ways to earn a respectable income that are not combat-based
OPTIONAL / PERKS :
* nice graphics, but not requiring a top-of-the-line machine * sci-fi (preferably involving spaceships) * extensive customisation of "avatar" performance via fully tradeable items * dynamic world (EVE doesn't really have this though, I wouldn't call adding areas "dynamic", just "expanding") * backstory-altering gameplay (EVE used to have this to some degree, sadly no longer really does) * ability to pay the subscription with in-game wealth WHILE NOT being the kind of game where RL capital has to be constantly invested in order to progress (example : Entropia Universe)
Thanks for the in-depth response. I may or may not agree with your points, but I can't fault your enthusiasm.
Here's to hoping that CCP is actively listening to these threads, but, as you pointed out earlier, are unable to directly respond to them. The next Eve expansion will be critical to Eve's continued success IMHO.
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.05.27 17:18:00 -
[47]
I believe the phrase thrown around by the old-school players who you refer to is "adapt or die".
Perhaps it's worth considering? ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic |
Soi Mala
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Posted - 2009.05.27 17:20:00 -
[48]
EvE is peachy.
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Blastil
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Posted - 2009.05.27 18:04:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Anubis Xian CCP is lucky there is no actual competition for EvE.
And there never will be until someone makes a MMORPG in which I can Actually PVP with actual people in a competition that is something more complex and interesting than 'I haz firebalz and pwnzor u!'
The game is fine. Could it be better? yes, that's the POINT of an MMORPG. You spend money constantly to fund the creation of new game content and the constant tweaking of old game content.
Also, SGE is vapoware mate. soz.
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VoiceInTheDesert
Zebra Corp Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2009.05.27 18:09:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Battlewagon
Originally by: Anubis Xian CCP is lucky there is no actual competition for EvE. But the wakeup call will come at some point.
Ring... Ring... Ring...Ring... CCP better wake up soon:
Fallen Earth Due out in Q2 2009, features a skill-based system similar to Eve in a post-apocalyptic setting. Heavy emphasis on player-based crafting and economy.
Jumpgate Evolution Due out in Q2 2009, this MMO features manually-controlled space combat. This game could be very attractive to "pewpew" Eve PVP players.
Star Trek Online Rumored to be released in Q4 2009, this MMO has an iconic sci-fi setting.
All of those plus Black Prophecy. I might convert to that one if it's awesome enough/EVE continues to ignore long standing sov issues.
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Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
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Posted - 2009.05.27 19:11:00 -
[51]
That's a bunch of words. Signature locked for discussing moderation. Navigator
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates
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Posted - 2009.05.27 19:21:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Gneeznow pretty good post and accurate from my view, however its gonna be drowned out by fanboys and can-i-have-your-stuff parrots in no time, posting anything like this on eve-o (especially gd) is a wasted effort
Go google "SWG NGE" and you will see what bad management of a MMO is.
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Chris Liath
Gallente Nex Exercitus Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.05.27 19:47:00 -
[53]
It's not peachy?
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic. |
Magna Monez
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Posted - 2009.05.27 19:49:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Gealbhan
Originally by: Akita T
So... no... there's no ANNOUNCED direct competitors for EVE's niche coming around any time soon. Now, I wonder about Blizzard's "super-secret-in-developement-new-franchise"... but nah, they wouldn't... would they ?
Warcraft: Reloaded
I would love it if someone wrote a game that is to Eve what Wow was to EQ.
Maybe Blizzard can pull it off.
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Dirk Larien
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Posted - 2009.05.27 19:49:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Drae Fokker So basically, your position is that "ZOMG, NERF CAREBEARS SO I HAVE MOAR TO SHOOT AT K THNX CCP U SUCK" right? Long story short, that's basically how you've come across. One of the measures of a game is how well it can continue to attract new subscribers. Despite the fact you don't like changes making you have to work to be the top **** space captain of pew pew, it's the name of this game, being to adapt to new things. EVE Online is one of the few select games that have existed as long as it has. It's the only game in this list that has continued to adapt to new technology, and create a graphical brilliance rivaled by few games on the market today. Despite the fact PVP is something it does well, the market speaks for itsself. Everyone does NOT want PVP all the time, nor do most people want it some of the time. CCP saw this in the beginning, and made Empire space just for people who wanted to avoid PVP the majority of the time. You cannot have things you want all the time, and I invite you to attempt to make a complicated game balanced like CCP has attempted to do. THey are doing the best they can, with 300,000 different opinions being shoved down their collective throats at the same time. T3 is MENT to be a pinncale achievement, and the fact that it can be so imbalancing is one of the reasons that it IS so expensive. And WH Space adds another dimenson to the game that a lot of Non-PVPers wanted all along.
To put a long story short, suggest what needs to be changed rather than mocking. CCP already has plans to release additional missions, a new storyline system to allow the players to immerse in the universe, ambulation, and others.
In reality, the only MMO out there that will even approach EVE will be Star Trek Online. And even then, EVE will appeal to those players who seek an original universe without the ham that shatner brought.
Amen
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