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CCP releasing the EVE client for player modification

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
VanNostrum The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.07.10 21:32:00 - [121] over my dead body!
Olga Mokroff School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.07.11 00:20:00 - [122] Edited by: Olga Mokroff on 11/07/2009 00:20:39 YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES WOW in space FTW
Sturn Y	Posted - 2009.07.11 10:09:00 - [123] UI modding supported.
Ignition SemperFi The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.07.12 23:47:00 - [124] somehow this was brought and voted on by the csm... yet this thread itself doesnt even have close to 50% support. not wanted ---- People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun. Space Vikings
Herschel Yamamoto Agent-Orange Coalition of Free Stars	Posted - 2009.07.13 01:15:00 - [125] Originally by: Ignition SemperFi somehow this was brought and voted on by the csm... yet this thread itself doesnt even have close to 50% support. not wanted Topics are brought to the CSM based on if CSM members want to discuss them, nothing else. Support is intended as a straw poll of the public on an issue - your support is only directly relevant to the actual CSM election. A lot of the reason for the low support percentage is because of the Assembly Hall support mechanic - a thread with debate looks a whole lot like a thread with low support from the outside. I support this proposal wholeheartedly(to the point where I ran two CSM campaigns with this at the centre of them), but this post will go onto the front-page stats as if I didn't.
Herzog Wolfhammer Aliastra	Posted - 2009.07.14 01:19:00 - [126] Supported! This would free the UI from having to argue with every other player while at the same time begging CCP for improvements. A modding community would make the EVE client spectacular and release development time to more important matters like bug fixing and better content. LUA Scripting FTW! Hopefully something more like Javascript would also be an option. Not only do I support this, I look forward to being a part of this (25 years experience programming).
SupaKudoRio	Posted - 2009.07.14 05:34:00 - [127] Edited by: SupaKudoRio on 14/07/2009 05:34:29 Originally by: Dav Varan So Computer savvy peops get a boost? You think being able to download a file and copy-paste it into a specific folder is 'computer savvy'? Well, for the terminally stupid I suppose some sort of manager for UI mods would come out eventually... if one is not built in. (ala OBMM to those who play TES4 Oblivion.) -SIG- The true meaning of CCP; Completely Crap Patches. Truth.
LegendaryFrog GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.07.15 00:55:00 - [128] It is as simple as this. The UI is likely the number 1 issue preventing this game from reaching a wider audience. The UI is the source of the most universal complaints from the userbase, however the suggestions on how to fix are severally polarized and inconsistent. The only way I can think of to address this is to adopt a player modifiable interface.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.07.15 12:31:00 - [129] Originally by: mazzilliu Edited by: mazzilliu on 01/06/2009 13:50:43 Update: This is the writeup i'm about to submit for some meeting. i think i worded it to avoid any misunderstandings such as there have been in this thread. http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Client_Addons let me know if theres anything i left out by posting here, and if you make changes to that page(i dont know if you can), im going to revert them. Original thread: ______________________ First of all this thread is sort of a spinoff of the ideas posted in this other thread: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1078379 the following threads are issues that are likely to be solved by this proposal, and i only searched the first four pages of assembly hall: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1019753 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1081108 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1037619 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1067300 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1080625 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1058152 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1080393 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1075507 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1076814 A CCP dev said a while ago that the EVE client does not handle any calculations, it is simply a dumb terminal. This explains why the eve "hackers" cant do much more then macro and take advantage of exploits. so CCP has no serious protections in place to prevent modification of the client, since the damage one can do is limited. That said, I think we should ask CCP to release some tools for players to make legal client modifications. certain other popular MMOs already allow this and it's an extremely popular feature and seen by players generally as positive. EVE is infamous for its horrible client interface and a lot of specific UI complaints can be solved in one fell swoop if people could write their own game addons. There are already some addons created by players and exist in a gray area as far as the EULA is concerned- this separates the players who want to be on the safe side and the players who just want an advantage. these addons include macros, local chat warnings for ratters, portrait alterations, scanner circles, et-cetera. how far CCP wants to go as far as allowing these things is up to them, but I think the general idea is something i'd like to see if they can do. personally, i think there are some balance issues caused by this, but CCP should not rely on a bad interface to create balance anyways. Issues such as a local watch client addon should be addressed directly, rather then simply disallowing addons entirely. programs like "bacon" will always exist for as long as the client's memory can be read by other programs running on the computer. (what was "bacon"? it was a local watch warning system that took the alert data from the EVE logserver. CCP's solution was to stop sending that event to the logserver) I support this with 2 caveats: (1) Only add-ons which are available to ALL players should be permitted. (2) There should be some kind of review process to make sure that game-breaking "wall hack" style changes aren't introduced.
mazzilliu	Posted - 2009.07.17 01:41:00 - [130] Originally by: Malcanis I support this with 2 caveats: (1) Only add-ons which are available to ALL players should be permitted. (2) There should be some kind of review process to make sure that game-breaking "wall hack" style changes aren't introduced. EDIT: and (3) That CCP should have the right to incorporate any add-ons into the main client. well, with (1) you should know that any UI that someone tries to distribute to only one alliance will get leaked to the population at large anyways, because lol spies, friends out of corp, and desire to be e-famous. if it has any intrinsic value above and beyond other existing software it will spread. even if there is no mandatory requirement that it does. (if you doubt any of that, even worthless private forum posts saying nothing of value are leaked. there is no reason a valuable information tool won't if that crap is.) (2) totally, yes. i think thats going to be a given, and probably one of ccp's top priorities if they arent nuts. (3) i really hope ccp does this!! MAZZILLIU 2009. CHANGE I CAN IMPOSE ON YOU.
Tycko Celchu	Posted - 2009.08.12 05:27:00 - [131] Originally by: mazzilliu Originally by: Soldis I support this only if mazzilliu will allow me to use his mod. my current modification to the EVE interface is a bright pink backgrounds and hot pink buttons and pastel pink text background. soooo there you go Paris Hilton plays Eve too? ...that's hot
Marquis Dean Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.08.12 13:19:00 - [132] Obviously, addons are a major pro to any game. There are a lot of things that could look better and use screen space more efficiently, including the overview, chat windows, the basic HUD, along with the way modules are displayed and the list could go on. I noticed that a lot of people are confusing hacks with addons. I don't see how addons that make it easier for people to use the interface could harm anyone. The ability to modify these aspects is an important improvement for any MMO, and it's a sign of progress, in my opinion. Games that cannot be tweaked, visually, or functions that cannot be enhanced by way of volunteer scripting are a thing of the past. If you check out all the emerging MMOs, one would notice that all of them are designed with this possibility in mind. The addon perspective also increases originality and the average lifetime of a game. Why? Because being able to customize your UI is like being able to pimp out your car, it makes you like it more, it provides stuff that you need (and others may not need) and it would allow for more people to get into EVE which = more subs for CCP and more people to shoot/be shot by for us. Two thumbs up! --- Originally by: James Russell Lowell Democracy gives every man the right to be his own oppressor
sukmanobov Minmatar Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2009.08.12 15:42:00 - [133] UNSUPPORTED Tho i do think they should allow some sort of marco mining client. as my main (this one) is PvP, and my alt is hulk miner. I'd preffer to minamize alts cleint for 30mins-1hr and let it just mine. As it stands i can fill cargo in about 8-10mins Basic mods would be good like HUD/neo-com/UI mods Custom paint jobs (it Could only be cleint side as it would coz WAYYYYY to mutch lag loading custom paint jobs, But server side would be cool somin like Black, white, blue, red, yellow etc..) Maelstrom would be cool black Mining Scripts things that can't be modded ANY TYPE OF COMBAT MODS is a NO Except maybe a AFK for miners, PVE pilots with a auto drone launch when a 3rd party cause agro to you. That would also help canflipers, low sec Pirates. --------------------------------
Marquis Dean Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.08.12 18:39:00 - [134] My God, Privateer recruitment standards have really dropped... Oh wait. Dear Privateer, could you please exemplify what you understand by "combat mods"? We're talking about UI customizing here. Illiterate ppl itt! --- Originally by: James Russell Lowell Democracy gives every man the right to be his own oppressor
Belmarduk Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2009.08.12 19:54:00 - [135] No Mainchar:
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.08.13 08:14:00 - [136] "wall hacks" LOL. There are two kinds of multiplayer environments. One, such as in the XNA Game engine and DirectX systems (like used for FPS games where you can run your own server) do put collision detection and other rule-keeping routines in the clients, making hacked clients the thing of course. Yes, if you shut down collision detection in your client, you can pass through walls. More common are those "head hunter" or "head shot bots" seen in FPS games where, whether client-server or peer to peer, if the collision detection is on the client, it can be hacked. MMOs typically do not keep rules on the client level. If it were up to every EVE client to determine if their ship was hit or not, that would have been hacked years ago and we would still be talking about that raid on empire space where even CONCORD got popped. The EVE Client, like the WOW client, is quite "dumb" in that it only interfaces the user and the game construct, but does not keep, track, or enforce the rules. Ever notice how the screen lags when the network lags, or how the ship does not respond if the connection temporarily goes into a high ping state? That's because you only issue commands to the server, but your client does not update your view of the environment until the server sends that information. WOW does this as well, with the only exception I have noticed being the map height collision and collision with large objects such as trees and structures. This is mostly irrelevant because you can shoot/cast through them, and if you beat the map height, the server "knows" you busted the altitude rule. Once I fell off the world in that game, into nothing, and died at a certain point of the drop. Customization of the EVE client would not give anybody any advantage over anybody else as far as rules are concerned. Nobody gets an I WIN button. The server keeps the same rules and the client can only send user input and update user perception back. As for programmers having an advantage over everybody else, there is no history of that. Nobody is going to spend a month on a good client mod just to keep it a dark secret. Programmers need work, and making a popular script or interface mod is a great resume builder. And client mods only give end users the ability to put buttons and views where they want. A fully customized UI only makes the client fit the brain of the user, but the user still has to know how to play and have the right skills. If I move the locked targets from the uppper right to the left or along the bottom, that does not make them locked up easier or easier to hit. And I don't assume that people with weak necks who can't look up would get and advantage over me when those ships are no longer displayed along the top. I suggest that the detractors here look at other systems and see how their client UIs were modded, and see that this is not as harmful as it appears.
Insidious	Posted - 2009.08.13 14:17:00 - [137] oh god yes can we have this done last year please!
Marquis Dean Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.08.13 16:05:00 - [138] Herzog Wolfhammer nailed it. Addons are a sign of progress, and they should be implemented -asap-. --- Originally by: James Russell Lowell Democracy gives every man the right to be his own oppressor
Nekopyat	Posted - 2009.08.13 19:22:00 - [139] I would be in favor of some kind of plug-in system. But instead of it being an easily modified interface where you can exchange version freely, I would rather see a market like solution. Players develop mods, package them up, upload them to the in-game markets, and other players pay for and download them. Mods stay with the account (or even toon) after that.
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.08.13 20:44:00 - [140] Originally by: Nekopyat I would be in favor of some kind of plug-in system. But instead of it being an easily modified interface where you can exchange version freely, I would rather see a market like solution. Players develop mods, package them up, upload them to the in-game markets, and other players pay for and download them. Mods stay with the account (or even toon) after that. I can think of some mods that could enhance things where some players who have it got an advantage, but therein also sits a solution. Take for example the case with scan probes. When you reduce the AU scanning radii, you have to move each probe of the cluster closer to each other to regain the lost overlap. Now imagine if it were possible that this was done automatically in the client. That the distance of the probes in the cluster would remain constant with the variable of the AU search radius. Why, the player who has that would scan things down faster than those who don't! EMORAGEQUIT EMORAGEQUIT!!!!!!!! Such a mo would have to be incorporated into the EVE Client. Look at the WOW client and see how it's extremely easy to find some great mods that help game play. If such mods were written, and then incorporated into the stock client by CCP by their own standards, THAT would be the Holy Grail of client customization. The person who wrote it would be "famous" in a way. And this would be a feature that explorers are already begging for and CCP would have invested very little time and money on development. I would even hope the CCP offers some plex or ISK for such accomplishments, maybe a faction ship as a reward or something rare. A stock setting of the Client will no affect mining bots either, and those who don't want to have to put in a module because they simply don't want to (being that lazy in a simulation game is as close to being an inanimate object as I could imagine) simply don't have to. To say that things should stay the same because some people just don't care to, and therefore we all have to remain at their level, is a kind of socialism in game content that keeps MMOs from expanding. I have witnessed it myself, there are people who won't play a game if they cannot customize their interface. I have seen people get completely turned off by such client programs that they could not rearrange.
Hun Jakuza 24th Imperial Guard	Posted - 2009.08.14 03:19:00 - [141] +1 Support
Tiger's Spirit	Posted - 2009.08.14 03:20:00 - [142] Support
Gavin Darklighter Ministry of War	Posted - 2009.08.14 06:23:00 - [143] I would support a modable GUI where you can move the buttons and rearrange menus and stuff, but nothing that would allow any sort of "macros" or "bots". If an action requires a keystroke or mouse-click in the normal client, it should require player input in the modded client as well. I don't want to see people writing their own clients that do stuff like micro-manage drones for them, or clients that monitor local and the ship-scanner to either warn the player or take defensive action automaticly. I also don't want to see custom clients that mine, run missions, or jita-trade automaticly for an AFK player. Or how about a networking client that allows a single player to control an entire fleet. Obviously there needs to be limits here. signature picture exceeds the size limit.~WeatherMan
Awesome Possum Insert Obscure Latin Name	Posted - 2009.08.14 15:23:00 - [144] UI mods killed WOW as much as Blizz ever did. Not supported, you have the same exact tools available to you as every other player in this game, deal with it. ♥ Wreck Disposal Services

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