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Omarvelous Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2009.05.27 20:39:00 - [1] I'm aware of the armored tank version of the Moros. I wanted some feedback on this fit. 3x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 2x Power Diagnostic Unit (buffer - I could swap for tracking enhancers for more range) Co-Processor II Damage Control II 3x Invulnerability Field II Capital Shield Booster I Sensor Booster II Siege Module 3x 1000mm Railgun 3x Core Defence Field Extender 5x Whatever Drones ~2.3 million effective HP ~10824 burst rep (probably wont see it) >4600 dps @ 60+60km non-faction fit for 'cheapness' I have been debating between Gallente and Caldari cap ships (I have skills in hybrids and missiles : armor and shields). How's this fit - should I keep the power diagnostic units or fit tracking enhancers for better range? No need to flame if its a terrible fit, I'm trying to get input on the forums before I take the plunge into cap ships. Important Internet Spaceship League Wants You
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.05.27 20:51:00 - [2] Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 27/05/2009 20:52:52 I don't fly cap ships, although I've trained for both the Amarrian Carrier and Dread. But I don't see the reasoning behind a sensor booster, since you're a combat multiplier as opposed to a tackler. I'd probably put a shield boost amplifier in the place of the sensor booster if tank is what you're looking for. I don't think that shield tanking the Moros is a bad idea, even if it isn't necessarily as good as the tried and true armor fitting. You might be sacrificing tank, but you're getting gank. Same reason people shield tank Dominixes and Hyperions.
Saul Reaver Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.05.27 21:16:00 - [3] Shield Tanked Moros? I wouldnt ever shield tank a Moros. You sacrafice too much hitpoints switching from Armor tank to Shield tank its just not worth it. I'll post my Moros fit. 3 x 1000mm Railgun I 1 x Seige module 1 x Sensor Booster II 4 x Cap Recharger II 1 x Capital Armor Repairer I 1 x Damage Control II 1 x Energized Regenerative Membrane II 2 x Energized Adaptive nano Membrane II 2 x Magnetic Field Stabalizer II Rigs - 3 x Trimark Armor Pump I Drones - Mix of T2 Sentries, Ogre II's, Hammerhead II, Hobgoblin II, Warrior II, Valkyrie II. Personally i think the Moros will not really work as a shield tanking Dread. I find using this set up works good in most situations in a Moros. I'm not here to flame you mate. Just a bit of advice. TBH i'd NEVER shield tank a Moros. Anyway i hope the fit helps. Cheers, Saul.
Crackzilla The Shadow Order	Posted - 2009.05.27 21:53:00 - [4] Edited by: Crackzilla on 27/05/2009 21:53:43 It might work for a burst, otherwise lack of cap is going to cripple it. Considering in a large fight you might last a minute or two then going for a burst tank isn't a terrible idea. I'd probably replace the 2x pdu & dc with 3x cprs if you seriously try this. Then cap recharger/amp for the sensor booster.
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2009.05.27 22:30:00 - [5] Thanks for input, I picked a shield buffer in order to maximize damage with 3x damage mods. I don't like active sustained self reps because of the sheer amount of concentrated firepower that cap battles throw out. How's this for an adjustment? 3x Mag Stab II Power Diagnostic II Capacitor power relay II Damage Control II Invul II Photon Scat II Heat Diss II Ballistic Deflect II Capital Shield Boost I Siege Module I 3x Dual 1000mm Railgun (under what situations is it ok to use blasers - because 7000 dps with blasters looks sooo tempting!) 3x CDFE I 2.33 million ehp (more ehp than the armor setup with trimarks) 2.7 with overheated resists - 2.9 with gang bonuses. 10,000 dps burst tank 17,000 overheated (only about a minute probably) cap stable without boosting using AM I had a sensor booster in op because I see them in fits - tbh Im shooting caps so I dont think its worth losing the tank for shield tanking. Maybe someone can explain why a sensor booster in typical fits. I only suggest shield tanking a gallente ship - because Gallente have more structure than armor (unlike amarr) - so I'm not totally throwing away some huge armor advantage anyways. If this was a Revelation I wouldn't do it (I tried and its not cap stable). I appreciate the input and good discussion so far! Important Internet Spaceship League Wants You
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.27 22:52:00 - [6] Why on earth would anyone in a cap ship attempt to get AWAY from an armor tank. You know spider tanks are good, right? --
Pater Peccavi Minmatar Cadre Assault Force	Posted - 2009.05.27 23:00:00 - [7] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Why on earth would anyone in a cap ship attempt to get AWAY from an armor tank. You know spider tanks are good, right? Yep, especially for sieged dreads. Originally by: hi go Let the human be very annoyed! Another person is very repugnant!
Atsuko Ratu Caldari Interstellar eXodus	Posted - 2009.05.27 23:00:00 - [8] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Why on earth would anyone in a cap ship attempt to get AWAY from an armor tank. You know spider tanks are good, right? You know not-sieged dreads are useless, right? If a dread survives siege mode, his tank is pretty irrelevant, he'll be saved by the carriers regardless.
The Riff eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2009.05.27 23:04:00 - [9] Originally by: Omarvelous Maybe someone can explain why a sensor booster in typical fits. Because of the -75% scan resolution bonus when in siege I cant actually bring myself to comment on a shield tanked moros though.
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2009.05.28 03:44:00 - [10] Originally by: The Riff Originally by: Omarvelous Maybe someone can explain why a sensor booster in typical fits. Because of the -75% scan resolution bonus when in siege I cant actually bring myself to comment on a shield tanked moros though. Is locking at 23 seconds that much better than 37 when you're locking up multiple targets at the begining of the fight and no one can jam you when sieged? Why can't you comment. Why is thinking outside of the box so... Why is a CCC dual armor rep so much better than a shield buffer with 3x damage mods? Maybe if the fight doesnt involve more than 5 caps a sustained local rep is great, but I think having the buffer will help you last longer once you start taking over 30,000 dps once primaried no? I have armor and shield skills so its not like I favor one over the other, its just that Id like ot take advantage of the Moro's potential for a lot of damage. Important Internet Spaceship League Wants You

Omarvelous Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2009.05.28 03:48:00 - [11] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Why on earth would anyone in a cap ship attempt to get AWAY from an armor tank. You know spider tanks are good, right? Capital Shield Transporters exist - true story. Important Internet Spaceship League Wants You
Shardrael Caldari Titan Industries Technology Team	Posted - 2009.05.28 04:03:00 - [12] Edited by: Shardrael on 28/05/2009 04:03:23 my feedback is as follows: bwahahahahaahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaha Signature locked. Please submit a petition to discuss the matter further. Navigator
The Riff eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2009.05.28 04:08:00 - [13] Originally by: Omarvelous Is locking at 23 seconds that much better than 37 when you're locking up multiple targets at the begining of the fight and no one can jam you when sieged? Well yeah, 23 seconds is that much better than 37, more than 50% better. And feel free to lock up as many targets as you are capable of before you go into siege, because as soon as you do, you will lose all those locks and then you will have a maximum of 2 locked targets. Also your assumptions of how ppl actually fit thier armour tanked moros (triple CCC and dual rep) these days, are wrong.
Crackzilla The Shadow Order	Posted - 2009.05.28 04:35:00 - [14] Originally by: Omarvelous Is locking at 23 seconds that much better than 37 when you're locking up multiple targets at the begining of the fight and no one can jam you when sieged? Yes. When in seige you can only lock 2x targets at once. You'll spend a lot of time waiting for locks. Or you'll wish you could lock at greater range. Originally by: Omarvelous Why is a CCC dual armor rep so much better than a shield buffer with 3x damage mods? Maybe if the fight doesnt involve more than 5 caps a sustained local rep is great, but I think having the buffer will help you last longer once you start taking over 30,000 dps once primaried no? ccc dual armor tank isn't used that much. Usually trimarks and a single rep. 2x dmg mods standard. Run the tank for as long as possible. Buffer is the goal. If you get called primary you're dead. The tank simply won't run enough cycles to matter much. The setup you listed is interesting. The buffer is comparable to an armor tank (about 100k less hp after sb added) but with 10% more dmg. The weak spot is cap recharge. With a shield tank it would rep about 360k hp before cap is dry. With an armor tank it would rep about 610k hp before cap is dry.
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.28 04:46:00 - [15] Originally by: Pater Peccavi Originally by: Marcus Druallis Why on earth would anyone in a cap ship attempt to get AWAY from an armor tank. You know spider tanks are good, right? Yep, especially for sieged dreads. Because sieged dreads are going to survive anyway, right? And I suppose the cap fights you find yourself in have zero lag and you are able to successfully burst your shield booster? --
NeoNeTiC 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.05.28 05:40:00 - [16] Dunno why you'd want to fit a shield booster or rep on a dread when you expect a cap fleet fight. Buffer dreads are allright, given that a full fledged cap fleet fight means you either get RR from the triage carriers in time and/or pop anyways. The pitiful amount you can rep in these few seconds you last while primaried is not even worth fitting an active tanking mod. An example for a full buffer fit would be 3x MagStab II, DCU, 2x EANM II (one left for either bulkhead or a mod of your choice) / 2x Invuln, Photon Scatt II, 2x sensor booster / siege mod, guns. Shield extender rigs. 2,4m EFT EHP (2,6 with bulkheads), fast locking, easy on cap (due to no active tank). Gives you almost 1m more EHP than any active tank fit and that's a lot of HP for people primarying you to chew through. If you expect a small scale fight with like 2-3 dreads on each side, consider active tanking again but please don't active-shieldtank it - can't sustain cap at all and you'll be low on it when you jump in. Just my opinion though. :V
Artemis Rose Sileo In Pacis The Space P0lice	Posted - 2009.05.28 05:56:00 - [17] Originally by: Omarvelous I have been debating between Gallente and Caldari cap ships (I have skills in hybrids and missiles : armor and shields). How's this fit - should I keep the power diagnostic units or fit tracking enhancers for better range? Well, unless you have absolutely excellent drone skills, I'd stay away from the Moros and go with Caldari Capitals. But I'm not a fan of the Gal Carrier at all, so that can skew my perspective a bit. *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats
Elapidae	Posted - 2009.05.28 06:17:00 - [18] Originally by: Omarvelous Thanks for input, I picked a shield buffer in order to maximize damage with 3x damage mods. Standard armour Moros fits have 3x damage mods too.
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2009.05.28 16:25:00 - [19] Thanks for the input guys. To clarify for some people. I was comparing a CCC dual armor rep to the shield buffer - I've also looked at a single armor rep with trimarks - th ebuffer was about the same. Good point about the prevalence of lasers - it is easier to setup omni armor tanks than omni shield tanks. I didn't know about the 2-target lock limit in siege. Like I said I'm asking questions about this ship BEFORE I get into one. That said, I'd definitely keep the sensor booster. I wish I could hop on the test server and compare the two different fits, but I don't have the dread skill book yet. If someone can fly a Moros with both cap shields and cap armor - I'd love to see their results. As for Phoenix vs Moros, My drones skills are OK (obviously they'll be worked on heavily prior to switching to cap ships) - but my gunnery skills are better than my missile skills. I like turrets, but I can appreciate the ability to choose damage types. I also figured since I'm training a racial BS V I may as well go for the Thanny instead of the Chimera since my corp does mixed fleets. We used to be a shield tankign Caldari pvp corp, but we've cross trained into armor tanking turret ships over the past year, so I'd like the flexibility of the Thannny. Bah - its a tough choice between Gallente or Caldari cap ships. Important Internet Spaceship League Wants You
Crackzilla The Shadow Order	Posted - 2009.05.28 16:38:00 - [20] Originally by: Omarvelous I wish I could hop on the test server Only thing sisi is useful for this is to test eft stats. You won't get a realistic fight otherwise. Originally by: Omarvelous As for Phoenix vs Moros, Maybe the cit torp velocity buff helped. Last I checked the ability to do insta dmg was vastly more important than the option of changing dmg type. Phoenix has a great tank but I wouldn't want those torps. All around Rev has to be the best pure dread with the Moros as second based on flexibility.

Lentia Shiva	Posted - 2009.05.28 17:41:00 - [21] Originally by: Omarvelous Thanks for the input guys. To clarify for some people. I was comparing a CCC dual armor rep to the shield buffer - I've also looked at a single armor rep with trimarks - th ebuffer was about the same. Good point about the prevalence of lasers - it is easier to setup omni armor tanks than omni shield tanks. I didn't know about the 2-target lock limit in siege. Like I said I'm asking questions about this ship BEFORE I get into one. That said, I'd definitely keep the sensor booster. I wish I could hop on the test server and compare the two different fits, but I don't have the dread skill book yet. If someone can fly a Moros with both cap shields and cap armor - I'd love to see their results. As for Phoenix vs Moros, My drones skills are OK (obviously they'll be worked on heavily prior to switching to cap ships) - but my gunnery skills are better than my missile skills. I like turrets, but I can appreciate the ability to choose damage types. I also figured since I'm training a racial BS V I may as well go for the Thanny instead of the Chimera since my corp does mixed fleets. We used to be a shield tankign Caldari pvp corp, but we've cross trained into armor tanking turret ships over the past year, so I'd like the flexibility of the Thannny. Bah - its a tough choice between Gallente or Caldari cap ships. 1. Moros is ALL about drones. It gets a huge Drone Bonus. 5 Sentry II's with DI5 is like having 1.5 more Capital Guns (that dont use ammo OR cap!)! 2. Shield Tanking.. Well, not to flame but whether you just want to take your billion dollar Moros into battle without cap or buffer or effective hp I'm not sure. 3. If you're not into Drones, and want to shield tank then dont fly a Moros, fly ..um.. well.. anything else?? Lentia Military Officer http://www.staf.online-guild.com/
Grista	Posted - 2009.05.28 17:51:00 - [22] There's really no comparison between the Phoenix and other dreads. Citadel torps are near-useless against anything but control towers. While they are better after the recent patch against other capitals, they still take time to reach their target. With the improvements to the Naglfar, the Phoenix is now safely in 4th place as worst dread. Originally by: Lentia 1. Moros is ALL about drones. It gets a huge Drone Bonus. 5 Sentry II's with DI5 is like having 1.5 more Capital Guns (that dont use ammo OR cap!)! Just want to point out that Heavy Drones (Ogres) seem to do much better dps against POS modules than sentries, even when travel time is considered.
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2009.05.28 19:41:00 - [23] Originally by: Lentia 1. Moros is ALL about drones. It gets a huge Drone Bonus. 5 Sentry II's with DI5 is like having 1.5 more Capital Guns (that dont use ammo OR cap!)! 2. Shield Tanking.. Well, not to flame but whether you just want to take your billion dollar Moros into battle without cap or buffer or effective hp I'm not sure. 3. If you're not into Drones, and want to shield tank then dont fly a Moros, fly ..um.. well.. anything else?? 1. Yeah I realize that - in addition they provide the ability to do damage other than kinetic/thermal. Big reason why I like the ship in addition to having T2 large hybrid skills. 2. Please take a careful look at my setup. Its not meant to run the shield booster for a long time. It actually has comparable buffer to a trimarked Moros. The local rep is just to buy you some time (along with the large shield buffer with high resists) till siege is over with. 3. I never said I wasn't into drones - I just don't have them maxed out like I should for a Moros - I plan on investing significant time into them prior to the cap ship jump. I have armor skills as well - I only liked shields in that it opened up slots for damage mods, while maintaining similar buffer to a trimarked Moros. That's it - I don't care either way. Important Internet Spaceship League Wants You
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2009.05.28 19:48:00 - [24] Edited by: Omarvelous on 28/05/2009 19:49:34 Originally by: Grista There's really no comparison between the Phoenix and other dreads. Citadel torps are near-useless against anything but control towers. While they are better after the recent patch against other capitals, they still take time to reach their target. With the improvements to the Naglfar, the Phoenix is now safely in 4th place as worst dread. Originally by: Lentia 1. Moros is ALL about drones. It gets a huge Drone Bonus. 5 Sentry II's with DI5 is like having 1.5 more Capital Guns (that dont use ammo OR cap!)! Just want to point out that Heavy Drones (Ogres) seem to do much better dps against POS modules than sentries, even when travel time is considered. Mind indulging some questions of mine? Why is the travel time such a bad thing? What are typical ranges for cap battles? I'm not planning on having my corp engaging in 0.0 cap blob fests, we're a casual low sec corp - that will use dreads for limited low-sec operations (removing low sec poses, countering hot-drops etc). In the situations I see myself using my cap ship in - I don't think the primary would be roasted before my citadel torps reach them (are smart bombs still a problem for them?). On that note - what scenarios could you use X-Large Blasters?? Why would sentry drones suck vs stationary pos structures? Neither they nor the structure is moving so tracking should be perfect. Important Internet Spaceship League Wants You
Crackzilla The Shadow Order	Posted - 2009.05.28 20:37:00 - [25] Edited by: Crackzilla on 28/05/2009 20:39:50 Originally by: Omarvelous Why is the travel time such a bad thing? The more time torps/drones spend going towards the target the less dps is being done. Originally by: Omarvelous What are typical ranges for cap battles? 50-60km. Much further is an issue for using drones. Battleships might be at 100-150km. Originally by: Omarvelous will use dreads for limited low-sec operations (removing low sec poses, countering hot-drops etc). The problem is then it'll take forever for a pos to be killed by a few dreads. Sieging them for a long time in an area that is difficult to control. Siege for too long and you'll see all kinds of interest in an easy cap kill. I would use a carrier + bs group for this. It'll still take forever but you'll have less isk at risk and in a better position to flee. Originally by: Omarvelous On that note - what scenarios could you use X-Large Blasters?? Sisi. Otherwise maybe some suicide setup. I really wouldn't use blasters on a dread. Originally by: Omarvelous Why would sentry drones suck vs stationary pos structures? Neither they nor the structure is moving so tracking should be perfect. Sentry drones have less dps than heavies. Personally I'd still go with t2 sentries versus ogres. Generally only a few pos mods are incapped before the tower is hit. In a small group you might be forced to incap everything in which case heavies are probably better.
Laur Khal	Posted - 2009.06.01 00:05:00 - [26] Originally by: Crackzilla Sentry drones have less dps than heavies. Personally I'd still go with t2 sentries versus ogres. Generally only a few pos mods are incapped before the tower is hit. In a small group you might be forced to incap everything in which case heavies are probably better. besides the instant hit dmg, sentries also have the advantage that you can drop a diff set of sentries to exploit shield dmg type weaknesses then switch to a diff set for armour dmg type weaknesses, etc. also the difference between ogres and sentries only exists cause sentries aren't affected by racial drone spec skills. at 0 racial drone spec skill, sentries actually do more than 4% more dmg than ogres.
Grista	Posted - 2009.06.01 00:29:00 - [27] Originally by: Omarvelous Why is the travel time such a bad thing? If you have a good warpin on the modules you're incapping, it's not a big issue. This is completely dependent on how the POS owner has set up the modules, though. Once in a while people will spread mods all around a POS, in which case drones aren't very useful. Note optimal range differences in different racial sentry drones. There's a reason almost no one carries Gardes for POS sieging. Quote: What are typical ranges for cap battles? There is no typical range. If an attacking fleet believes it has overwhelming odds, they may drop in close so their carriers can assist pointing caps. If attackers are phoenix-heavy, they'll likewise come in close range if they are prudent, even with the recent speed boost to citadel torps. If attackers are set up to "snipe", and have sub-capital tacklers (as well as confidence those ships will survive), they may come in at long range, hoping to nullify defender dps. Most 0.0 alliances have wised up to "sniping" capital tactics, though, and have fit their dreads accordingly (ability to target and do damage out to 175 km+). Quote: In the situations I see myself using my cap ship in - I don't think the primary would be roasted before my citadel torps reach them (are smart bombs still a problem for them?). Another thing to keep in mind is you're more likely to face sub-capitals than capitals. For this reason, the Moros is that much better than the Phoenix. The former does the dps of a T2 Mega (maybe slightly better) out of siege, and will insta-pop 0 transveral BS if they manage a lock in siege. Beyond that, the drone bay capacity and damage boost is a significant threat to would-be tacklers. Conversely, citadel torps have only the comedy value of following targets inside POS shields and killing them when they don't have the presence of mind to warp off after being shot at. In large dread v. dread battles, there may be seperate primary targets for turret dreads and phoenixes. At least, phoenixes will be told to shoot the secondary target. If you're primaried by 20 turret dreads, your life expectancy is about 1 minute. Quote: On that note - what scenarios could you use X-Large Blasters?? Blasters on a Moros is useless beyond sieging small and medium towers and station camping. Quote: Why would sentry drones suck vs stationary pos structures? Neither they nor the structure is moving so tracking should be perfect. This is just my own personal observation, having sieged and killed hundreds of towers and modules. It might be related to sig radius, but that shouldn't be the case for large guns.
Grista	Posted - 2009.06.01 00:30:00 - [28] One other thing - don't shield tank an armor tanking dread (Moros/Rev). Just don't do it.
Rajere No Trademark	Posted - 2009.06.01 01:06:00 - [29] Blasters on a Moros can be useful for small gang hotdrops, they're terrible for anything else (even shooting Small POSes really) The opinions expressed in my posts do represent my corp -------------------------- NOTR
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.01 12:49:00 - [30] The setup is ok, but swap that co-processor for another power diagnostic. If you don't have cpu try the true-sansha pdu, they are cheap like dirt but easy to fit. Maybe even swap another magnetic field stab for a pds or use named sensor booster - if you still lack cpu try a caldari navy invul. And don't listen to stupid advices to swap the pds to shield or cap power relay. The additional hp you get from the pdu are quite a lot on a dread. And that higher cap buffer is nice too, additional shield-and cap-buffer gives you lots of extra time to recharge, at the end you'll generate more cap than a cap power relay setup, if you receive heavy damage.

Chris Liath Gallente Nex Exercitus Skunk-Works	Posted - 2009.06.01 14:47:00 - [31] Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 27/05/2009 20:52:52 But I don't see the reasoning behind a sensor booster, since you're a combat multiplier as opposed to a tackler. I'd probably put a shield boost amplifier in the place of the sensor booster if tank is what you're looking for. You have no idea, do you? "Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
The Riff eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.01 14:50:00 - [32] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba The setup is ok, No it's not.
Bronson Hughes ADVANCED Combat and Engineering	Posted - 2009.06.01 15:47:00 - [33] As a Moros pilot who's toyed around with shield tanking it, here are some thoughts: 1. On a buffer-fit Dread in Siege, EHP is EHP; the type of buffer is irrevelent as long as it doesn't compromise fitting. The Moros's single strongest HP pool is structure so as long as you have a Damage Control fit, armor or shield buffers should work fine. As noted however, the Moros is a bit tight on CPU for a proper shield fit so a few pieces of faction gear or a CoProc is necessary. 2. Blasters on sub-capitals work just fine because sub-caps are mobile. On a stationary ship, having an optimal range of 7km is a huge liability. Stick with rails for 90% of applications. 3. As a fellow Caldari/Gallente cross-trained pilot I can understand the decision that you're faced with. I ended up going with Gallente because Gallente caps are generally more versatile than Caldari caps, even though Caldari caps will do the fewer things that they do better. I haven't been disappointed with the decision. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2009.06.01 16:28:00 - [34] Awesome responses guys - These are the ins and outs of a dread fit I was looking for. Rajere - appreciate the training layout - I was thinking that would be the way to go. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go for the Moros then over the Phoenix (I'll be sad to see my sniper Rokh not get its maximum possible resistance but oh well). Bronson - thanks for the input, if you've made the switch and you have hybrid skills then you know exactly what I'm going through. When I started I always pictured myself as some sniper pilot - hence hybrid Caldari training. However, as time has gone on I've realized how much fun Gallente ships can be. I see how blasters on a ship that can't move may not be an ideal tactic. Even switching to longer ranged ammo (break even in damage between blasters and rails looks like lead) only gives 17+25km range. How I wish they had T2 cap guns so you could use NULL. Then again the same is probably said by Revelation/Naglfar Pilots. Important Internet Spaceship League Wants You
Bronson Hughes ADVANCED Combat and Engineering	Posted - 2009.06.01 16:42:00 - [35] Originally by: Omarvelous Bronson - thanks for the input, if you've made the switch and you have hybrid skills then you know exactly what I'm going through. When I started I always pictured myself as some sniper pilot - hence hybrid Caldari training. However, as time has gone on I've realized how much fun Gallente ships can be. Like you, I started out wanting to be a good railgun sniper but found that Caldari ships weren't always the best choice for the job. I have good missile support skills for things like flying mission-running Ravens or PvPing in small missile boats like Crows along with very good tanking skills (both armor and shield), but most of my weapons training has been with turrets/hybrids. On the cruiser and frigate level, Caldari ships clearly excel at sniping over Gallente ships, but on the battleship level the difference is less clear. Given that all of this gunnery training would be wasted on a Phoenix, chosing to train for the Moros was pretty much a no-brainer. If CCP ever lifts the 249km lock range cap, I'll consider training Caldari BS V for the Rokh, but for now I do my sniping in Megas, Eagles, and Harpies. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
III LightBringer	Posted - 2009.06.01 17:18:00 - [36] You can try to load up on T2 Bulk's and a DmgCtrl2, inv-t2's in mid and shield extender rigs... that will give you some nice EHP and be about as useful as the OP...
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2009.06.01 19:09:00 - [37] Edited by: Omarvelous on 01/06/2009 19:09:24 Originally by: III LightBringer You can try to load up on T2 Bulk's and a DmgCtrl2, inv-t2's in mid and shield extender rigs... that will give you some nice EHP and be about as useful as the OP... Thanks for trolling. Buffer shields has similar buffer to armor. Remote shield reps are effective. RR Hull is not. I want damage (3x damage mods) not just eft buffer. I've gotten good input from people that fly the ship, I don't need pointless trolling. Just because Gallente typically use armor doesn't mean it always has to be that way. The highest native HP on Gallente ships isn't armor its structure, so there is a flexibility that isnt available to the other pure armor tanking race (Amarr). I wanted to see if buffer shields was effective. Not looking for troll responses, just honest opinions from people that fly this class of ship, and know the ins and outs of buffer shield and armor tanks. Ive gotten that so far from most posters so follow their example or GTFO of my thread. Important Internet Spaceship League Wants You
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.06.01 21:18:00 - [38] [Moros, shield] Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System Internal Force Field Array I Capital Shield Booster I Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Dual 1000mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge XL Dual 1000mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge XL Dual 1000mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge XL Siege Module I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I [Moros, New Setup 1] Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Damage Control II True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Capital Armor Repairer I Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Dual 1000mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge XL Dual 1000mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge XL Dual 1000mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge XL Siege Module I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I 3726 vs. 3491 dps 2.244 vs. 2.135 mil ehp 10k versus 5k burst tank shield setup wins ccp need only look in the mirror
Rajere No Trademark	Posted - 2009.06.02 01:18:00 - [39] Edited by: Rajere on 02/06/2009 01:23:14 and of course: [Moros, New Setup 2] Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Reinforced Bulkheads II Reinforced Bulkheads II Co-Processor II Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Capital Shield Booster I Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Dual 1000mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge XL Dual 1000mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge XL Dual 1000mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge XL Siege Module I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I 2.568m ehp, same dps as armor, same burst tank as shield. Oh and if you're faction fitting them: [Moros, Faction] Internal Force Field Array I Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Reinforced Bulkheads II Reinforced Bulkheads II F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Scan Resolution Capital Shield Booster I Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Dual 1000mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge XL Dual 1000mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge XL Dual 1000mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge XL Siege Module I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I 2.819 EHP, same dps/burst tank as shield shield/hull tank wins The opinions expressed in my posts do represent my corp -------------------------- NOTR
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.06.02 08:42:00 - [40] The CN invuls are a bit expensive, but faction magstabs/eanms is definitely an option. CCP could create greater difference between the base shield/armour hp of all the dreads so as to make them more focused on a certain type of tanking..as it is now, capital shield boosters are way superior to reppers.

Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.02 09:55:00 - [41] I dont use dreads myself, but assuming you arent using AM all of the time, isnt a tracking enhancer better than a fourth magstab, so you can use shorter range ammo? (And immediatly you free up more cpu).
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.06.02 14:49:00 - [42] Originally by: Sokratesz [Moros, shield] Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System Dark Blood Power Diagnostic System Internal Force Field Array I Capital Shield Booster I Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Dual 1000mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge XL Dual 1000mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge XL Dual 1000mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge XL Siege Module I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I [Moros, New Setup 1] Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Gallente Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Damage Control II True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Capital Armor Repairer I Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Dual 1000mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge XL Dual 1000mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge XL Dual 1000mm Railgun I, Antimatter Charge XL Siege Module I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I 3726 vs. 3491 dps 2.244 vs. 2.135 mil ehp 10k versus 5k burst tank shield setup wins ccp need only look in the mirror Ah thx for a useful post as usual. If I might be forgiven for derailing the thread slightly, assuming one were starting gunnery skills from scratch, what would be the most SP-efficient vs necessary skillset for Moros gunnery only? That is, for no other gunship than the Moros. (My alt already has awesomesauce drone skills.) I guess I'm asking: which gunnery supports can safely be left at 4?
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2009.06.02 15:36:00 - [43] Originally by: Malcanis I guess I'm asking: which gunnery supports can safely be left at 4? You don't need T2 guns to get into cap guns. So skip specializations if you're in that much of a hurry. I'd still get rapid fire V, surgical strike V, motion prediction (tracking) could be left at IV since your tracking is reduced 400% when in siege, long range could be at IV (although I'd go for V just to open up more range with longer ranged ammo should you be sniping), trajectory analysis (falloff) can be left at IV, controlled bursts could be at IV since hybrid guns eat up way less cap than your rep. That's my thought's for getting into cap guns as fast as possible. Important Internet Spaceship League Wants You
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.06.02 16:33:00 - [44] Originally by: Furb Killer I dont use dreads myself, but assuming you arent using AM all of the time, isnt a tracking enhancer better than a fourth magstab, so you can use shorter range ammo? (And immediatly you free up more cpu). Even antimatter shoots 60+60 which is enough for any and all POS sieges, and for longer range just carry a few hundred rounds lead XL. If you're planning to hotdrop for sniping you can obviously forego some resist mods for 1-2 TE so you can hit at 150-200km with higher-damage ammo.


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