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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.07.29 01:02:00 -
[1]
 Originally by: Petyr Baelich
Originally by: Jones Bones
Originally by: Yaggher Xanuben
Not really an issue, an expendable cyno at the high-sec gate, JF jumps to it, 30 seconds and jumps.
Jones Bones' Nanophoon bumps you for 5000m (Critical)!
This. Never cyno to a gate. Cyno to a station within the docking ring but out of the way of the undock point to make it more difficult to setup a bump before you can dock or warp to the highsec gate.
Lmao! Disinformation ftw! Unless Mr. Jones has a nanophoon at every high sec entrance in low sec and the ability to know exactly which gate the jump freighter will cyno into down to the second you are perfectly safe. 
Originally by: Vaden Khale
He's doing the moonwalk in HEE-hee-hell.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.07.29 01:42:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Originally by: Zeba
Lmao! Disinformation ftw! Unless Mr. Jones has a nanophoon at every high sec entrance in low sec and the ability to know exactly which gate the jump freighter will cyno into down to the second you are perfectly safe.
Confirming this is correct. Do not hesitate to cyno directly to the gate, its completely safe, lowsec dwellers never check out cynos that are lit at gates... 
Yes, because every single entrance from low sec to high sec has a jump freighter busting squad ready and willing to engage with less than 30 seconds notice.
Originally by: Vaden Khale
He's doing the moonwalk in HEE-hee-hell.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.07.29 01:50:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Originally by: Zeba
Yes, because every single entrance from low sec to high sec has a jump freighter busting squad ready and willing to engage with less than 30 seconds notice.
Especially for lowsec entrance systems, its very likely that a gatecamp is already in place (even if you dont see it), and ready to pounce on you.
But yea, jump your JF to the Nourv gate in Tama if you think its so safe
So plz explain why my cyno alt would drop one at a camped gate with several dozen empty gates to choose from. Also if the gate is not currently camped but local is filled to the brim you will be safe as can be. You have 30 seconds. Can you identify that a jump freighter is on the gate and get the needed force to him and bump him away in the 30 seconds?
Originally by: Vaden Khale
He's doing the moonwalk in HEE-hee-hell.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.07.29 02:05:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Originally by: Zeba
Can you identify that a jump freighter is on the gate and get the needed force to him and bump him away in the 30 seconds?
I dont even care what jumps to the cyno, if its at a gate I immediately warp there by default and point whatever is there.
Since I quite often hang around about 2kkm from the gate in a tactical, yes I will be there in 30 seconds (in like 5-7 seconds actually), with enough time to try a bump.
And I will happily suicide my rapier to tackle any JF, carrier or whatever you jump there as I know my corp is gonna be ready to gank it in no time once I start yelling in vent.
Great. That means the next time I'm looking for a high sec entrance to drop off a few billions in stuff I'll cross the one single system you hang in off the list. Thanks for the intel!  Moral: No mater what you cannot stop a jump freighter from getting into high sec from a low sec gate if the pilot scores at least 3 points higher than forrest gump on an iq test.
Originally by: Vaden Khale
He's doing the moonwalk in HEE-hee-hell.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.07.29 02:14:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 29/07/2009 02:13:30
Originally by: Zeba
Moral: No mater what you cannot stop a jump freighter from getting into high sec from a low sec gate if the pilot scores at least 3 points higher than forrest gump on an iq test.
Well, "run, forrest, run!" is all I can say 
I do. Right into high sec with nothing the locals can do about it.
Originally by: Vaden Khale
He's doing the moonwalk in HEE-hee-hell.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.07.29 02:24:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Originally by: Zeba
I do. Right into high sec with nothing the locals can do about it.
Thats exactly the kind of attitude that gets more people killed than I could possibly count. But go ahead, its your ship not mine
So how do you explain several hundred jumps into low sec at a high sec entrance with zero losses? Hmmmm? 
Originally by: Vaden Khale
He's doing the moonwalk in HEE-hee-hell.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.07.29 02:36:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 29/07/2009 02:29:12
Originally by: Zeba
So how do you explain several hundred jumps into low sec at a high sec entrance with zero losses? Hmmmm?
You know the saying "the dumbest peasant reaps the biggest potatoes" ?
edit: arent we talking about lowsec -> hisec anyway?
first part: Wat? 
second edited part: Thats what I thought we were talking about. Cynoing a jf into a low sec system directly on the gate to jump into high sec after the 30 second session change timer runs out. However you seem to be claiming that no matter where you drop a cyno a jf busting squad with the ships capable of bumping you away from the gate and so kill you will magically appear even in an empty system in the 30 seconds you have to wait. I call bullshiat if that is what you are trying to argue. 
Originally by: Vaden Khale
He's doing the moonwalk in HEE-hee-hell.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.07.29 03:16:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Originally by: Zeba
first part: Wat?
translates into "you were lucky".
Well thank you for being proficient in decyphering ancient european colloquialisms. Alas luck has nothing to do with it, only logic focus and planning.
Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Originally by: Zeba
However you seem to be claiming that no matter where you drop a cyno a jf busting squad with the ships capable of bumping you away from the gate and so kill you will magically appear even in an empty system in the 30 seconds you have to wait.
Originally by: Zeba
Also if the gate is not currently camped but local is filled to the brim you will be safe as can be.
Make up your mind, is the system empty, or filled to the brim with people?
An empty system of course is pretty safe (not totally, but reasonably safe). But you claimed its safe in a system full of people, which is, quite frankly, bull****.
Both. An empty system is 99.99999% safe as about the only real thing you will have to worry about is a travelling blob entering from the high sec side at least 15 seconds before the timer expires. As far as a populated system that you really want to use to enter high sec its just a matter of patience. Use your cynp alt to scout the gate whilse running a max range scan so if its like a normal low sec system everyone is docked up you just pop the cyno and enjoy the profits when you dump your load in a market hub.
Even if someone was undocked they will take a few seconds to realize a cyno is up and decide to warp to it then a few moar seconds to enter warp then even moar time to make it to the gate and get to the jf before he can jump. Sorry mate but thats simply not enough time to git r done unless you were in an interceptor. Good luck bumping it far enough away in the 5~10 seconds you have left. If the desired gate is constantly camped then you simply bite the bullet and go to the secondary cyno site. So anyway you slice it I get my jf into highsec in under an hour max and 99 times out of a hundred 30 seconds later.
Originally by: Vaden Khale
He's doing the moonwalk in HEE-hee-hell.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.07.29 22:48:00 -
[9]
Wow you are like a terrier that just won't let go of someones trousers cuff..
Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Or a lone battleship that just happens to jump the gate while you jump to your cyno and seizes the opportunity. Worst case with really unlucky timing he has almost the full 30 seconds = plenty of time to bump you off. (Unless you scout the hisec site as well, +1 character)
Actually I have 5 accounts so I ususally run with a 4 man scout not just the cyno dropper but its still safe as can be to just use the cyno popper to scout and go right to the gate if you have 10 minutes patience to spare for a system sweep if there are people in local.
Originally by: Lilith Velkor
I've mentioned it before, there are ships that can be cloaked and you wont scan them with your cyno alt, when I'm lingering at gates waiting for jumpins in the Rapier I'm usually even sitting 10km off gate. Enough room to get the bump. If I'm sitting at a tactical it will take me 5-7 seconds to warp and hit the gate after cyno is lit, a bit more difficult but still possible, I'd certainly not bet a 4bill JF on it.
Which is why scouting the sytem first is not only advisable but mandatory. Say there are 6 in local. You first scan the system to see if anyone is around and if not you go to each station and add up the pilots. If not all are accounted for then the odds are good that a cloaker is around. Off to the next system then but as I have already stated 99.9999999% of the time all I have to do is pop the cyno and 30 seconds later Profit! No magical gank squad appears out of nowhere nor are there any suprise rapiers to bump me away. This is like the fitting threads I see where a ton of people pile in to trash the fit cause it will die solo or not survive a camp. Well no **** sherlock that will happen to the majority of ships regardless of sp or player skill level anyways.
Originally by: Lilith Velkor
So, you are basically saying that taking the risk of sitting 30 seconds at gate in a lowsec system, using 5 characters (2x cyno + 2x hisec scout + JF), taking possibly hours waiting for the right moment, and still running a risk of getting ganked is better than using just 2 characters and doing it the proper way to be 100% safe? And thats not even taking into account you might wanna run the route multiple times, get scouted out, added to peoples addressbook and getting set up. Not like that hasnt happened to countless people before.
Hrm you seem to be labouring under the pretence that I'm an idiot and would actually wait for hours or fall for stupid stuff when all I would have to do in the majority of cases is just go to the next system. Thats just fine with me as overconfidence is the real killer in eve.
Originally by: Lilith Velkor
You might prefer it that way, but you shouldnt advise other people to do such things when they can get it done the proper way in under 2 minutes. (On a related note, why do you think people even go through the trouble of setting up POSs for the sole purpose to get their JFs into hisec safely?)
Just my .02 isk, I'm tired arguing it, Kessiaan lined out how its done best a few posts above, I can only advise people to use that method.
Advise away. I never said that the jump to station method was wrong or even inefficient. However for some reason you seem to think that just jumping to the gate is instant or at the least highly probable suicide. It is not as long as you have a whit of common sense about you as my many successful insertions attest to. I'm sorry if my non cookie cutter method disturbs you so much. 
Originally by: Velvet69
Originally by: Zeba
in all the years I have played eve
You've got an 05 char that's been in a 1 man corp for the last 6 months.
Post with your more active main or stfu.
What advantage would it be to me to divulge that particular character(s) identity and what difference does it matter if I or my scout squad are in a corp or npc corp? Cynos and jf work just dandy with both.
Originally by: Vaden Khale
He's doing the moonwalk in HEE-hee-hell.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.07.29 22:54:00 -
[10]
Crap ran out of characters and was sooo close to the end. 
One last caveat. Say you jump to the station and low and behold a gang warps in. What now? You are warp scrambled and steadily being bumped away from the station. Even if you make it past the timer you are now probably going to get camped for hours or even days as a jf is a damn juicy killboard padding kill. Nah.. I'd rather just find use one of the plethora of empty low sec border systems and jump right into empire thank you very much.
Originally by: Vaden Khale
He's doing the moonwalk in HEE-hee-hell.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.07.29 23:14:00 -
[11]
Dunno never had it happen.
Originally by: Vaden Khale
He's doing the moonwalk in HEE-hee-hell.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.07.29 23:46:00 -
[12]
Yeah I thought your edit was a setup. Just read my edited post.
Originally by: Vaden Khale
He's doing the moonwalk in HEE-hee-hell.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.07.29 23:56:00 -
[13]
Your belief or non-belief is irrelevant. Want to figure it out? Go to the test server and well, test. Don't just disbelive because your used to doing it only one certain way.
Originally by: Vaden Khale
He's doing the moonwalk in HEE-hee-hell.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.07.30 00:17:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Originally by: Zeba
So tell me do you have person experience in this matter with hundereds of jumps to your name?
Yes I actually do. Hundreds of jumps from single ships up to large cap fleets.
Thats kinda why I'm wondering as I've seen things go horribly wrong more than a few times.
On jump freighters or cap ships? Cap ships I will agree have a pretty damn good chance at getting hurled off into the void as my testing has confirmed even on the smallest gates but jf are about bs sized and with proper cyno placement land right where you need them to. Dunno what to say as it just works. *shrugs*
Originally by: Vaden Khale
He's doing the moonwalk in HEE-hee-hell.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.07.30 01:03:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 30/07/2009 00:54:08
Originally by: Zeba
On jump freighters or cap ships? Cap ships I will agree have a pretty damn good chance at getting hurled off into the void as my testing has confirmed even on the smallest gates but jf are about bs sized and with proper cyno placement land right where you need them to. Dunno what to say as it just works. *shrugs*
Mostly cap ships and a few times jump freighers I could probably count on one hand, but thats actually a good point. Still sounds terribly risky though as you only need to get bumped a few 100m depending on where you land, compared to like 30-40km on a convenient station.
I'd prefer the safety of dockrange and insta-undocks, no way anything apart from a BS ganksquad can ruin your day there.
This is why I pick an unpopulated system. Whilst I have never bounced a jump freighter off a gate it sometimes takes a few seconds to amble into jump range on the rare occation it appeard right at the edge of gate range. However it never took longer than the session timer to do it even on the worst possible jump in so I have used it in populated systems too when it just had to go to that particular gate.
Originally by: Vaden Khale
He's doing the moonwalk in HEE-hee-hell.
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