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EVE - A different kind of MMO - Learning curve responsible?

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Rudy Gnarl Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2009.05.30 05:01:00 - [1] Two of my best buddies introduced me to EVE telling me it was different than other MMOs. Now for me this didn't mean much, since I had never seriously played another MMO. However, they were sick of doodz (in BF2, which I do have experience with, the doodz did tend to ruin things with their bunny hopping tactics - **ing bunny hoppers) and explained that EVE had a lot less of the dood element. Now, as I have been playing for almost a year now, I have to say that I agree, EVE is different. These forums for instance have proven to be a very pleasant place to discuss all sorts of topics, seriously though, this community is way above the curve in regards to informative and well thought responses to posts. I have found that many forums in rl are full of much more trolling and flaming and quite frankly almost impossible to have discussions without having to sift through all of the ignorant bs. Now my friends have a theory as to why and how EVE has risen above the doodlyness of the online gaming world - the learning curve in EVE drives away younger, and less mature gamers, and attracts more sophisticated gamers. Let me know what you all think of this theory. --- Am I being targeted, wait, ahh, they're all red now! Why won't it warp, it's not responding. Okay warp to zero. Damn it my pod too. F***g lag! [lesson learned: log for lag]
BlackDragonShadow Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.30 05:08:00 - [2] Quote: The learning curve in EVE drives away younger, and less mature gamers, and attracts more sophisticated gamers. That about sums it up. And I think it has something to do with the whole space genera. I tend to find that people who like sci-fi are a bit smarter because they read something and then go "Hey is that even possible" and they look it up. Where as everyone knows throwing a Harry Potter spell is craziness. But shooting a laser gun is awesome. This sig was awesome but needs more EvE related content. - Mitnal Fine. EVE Online
Intense Thinker Minmatar	Posted - 2009.05.30 06:12:00 - [3] Damn those bunnyhoppers! Pomp FTW!!!
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.05.30 07:41:00 - [4] As unbelievable as it may sound, we have a positively upstanding forum community here compared to the forums for other MMOs. So yes, I'll buy the argument that this game has more sophisticated players, although I think that mainly comes from the fact that the average Eve player is older than the average player from WoW. We filter out the young teenagers and as a result aren't barraged constantly by incoherent whining.
Rudy Gnarl Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2009.05.30 08:11:00 - [5] Originally by: Intense Thinker Damn those bunnyhoppers! I love it! --- Am I being targeted, wait, ahh, they're all red now! Why won't it warp, it's not responding. Okay warp to zero. Damn it my pod too. F*****g lag! [lesson learned: log for lag]
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei Guardian Federation	Posted - 2009.05.30 15:39:00 - [6] Quote: These forums for instance have proven to be a very pleasant place to discuss all sorts of topics, seriously though, this community is way above the curve in regards to informative and well thought responses to posts. I have found that many forums in rl are full of much more trolling and flaming and quite frankly almost impossible to have discussions without having to sift through all of the ignorant bs. You are talking about General Discussion of eveonline.com? Are we reading the same forum? Or was one of the Wormholes actually a portal to a paralell universe? Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
ReaperOfSly Gallente Zetsubou Corp	Posted - 2009.05.30 15:53:00 - [7] Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Quote: These forums for instance have proven to be a very pleasant place to discuss all sorts of topics, seriously though, this community is way above the curve in regards to informative and well thought responses to posts. I have found that many forums in rl are full of much more trolling and flaming and quite frankly almost impossible to have discussions without having to sift through all of the ignorant bs. You are talking about General Discussion of eveonline.com? Are we reading the same forum? Or was one of the Wormholes actually a portal to a paralell universe? Ah, so naive. ____________________
Delvardious Kaesos Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.30 17:55:00 - [8] and those less mature gamers who somehow make it through the learning curve are griefed continuously until they quit.
mercyonman Caldari Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.30 18:01:00 - [9] i started playing eve when i was 14. and in 7th grade lol. the second corp i got into had an age limit of 21. and i told bthem my age after doing a couple missions with them and they let me in. and all the people in my age group said "eve was too confusing" and also "takes too long" lol well i love eve "Boo hoo. Cry some more." - DEV CCP Whisper
mercyonman Caldari Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.30 18:03:00 - [10] Originally by: Dirk Magnum We filter out the young teenagers and as a result aren't barraged constantly by incoherent whining. so your saying all "younger people" whine? "Boo hoo. Cry some more." - DEV CCP Whisper

Rudy Gnarl Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2009.05.30 19:42:00 - [11] Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Quote: These forums for instance have proven to be a very pleasant place to discuss all sorts of topics, seriously though, this community is way above the curve in regards to informative and well thought responses to posts. I have found that many forums in rl are full of much more trolling and flaming and quite frankly almost impossible to have discussions without having to sift through all of the ignorant bs. You are talking about General Discussion of eveonline.com? Are we reading the same forum? Or was one of the Wormholes actually a portal to a paralell universe? Umm, I think your quote says it all. I have found that yes there are some trolls and ignorant or mean comments, but for the most part the forums here are much more pleasant, imho. Originally by: mercyonman Originally by: Dirk Magnum We filter out the young teenagers and as a result aren't barraged constantly by incoherent whining. so your saying all "younger people" whine? No of course not. St I whine and complain all of the time. I think that you said it yourself in your first post - most teenagers and younger people would rather have simple faster satisfaction from a game. My 13-year old son sat down in front of EVE a few months ago to mess around and never sat down again (I asked him to help me ice mine, maybe that's why . . . ). I don't mean to stereotype I simply think that EVE is a more mature and complex game when compared to most other MMOs and RPGs. It has almost a turn based strategy feel to the logistics and preparation it can take to make things happen, which is probably why I like it so much. --- Am I being targeted, wait, ahh, they're all red now! Why won't it warp, it's not responding. Okay warp to zero. Damn it my pod too. F***g lag! [lesson learned: log for lag]
Draeca Tharri and Co.	Posted - 2009.05.30 21:48:00 - [12] Eve is a huge sandbox game, doodz like simple arcade games.
Alex Raptos Caldari Phoenix Rising.	Posted - 2009.05.30 23:05:00 - [13] Speaking from the point of view of someone who joined eve when they were a mere 14; Eve tends to drive away the complete morons because it has no instant gratification. They cannot simply say "HAY MOM LOOK WUT I DID". More often than not it turns into "HAY THAT GUY HURT ME MOMMY MAKE IT BETTA". They get made to feel like idiots and that in turn pushes them away to more simple games (World of Warcraft, Console games, and so forth). Young players often (but not always) stick to one mindset and continue till that brings success. In eve, that will simply not work and they either get pushed back to square one so many times that they don't want to play, or they adapt, mature and overcome (Like i did, and trust me i was a burden to my first corp, seriously) the problems eve presents you with by adopting new mindsets, and trust me the few "kids" who can do this (I say "kids" the way i do because its not as simple as an age group, in reality this could include anyone from the teens to their early 20's) often become some of the better players i have met. Personally i'm going on 3 and a half years on playing eve, i've covered most of my own subscription minus the occasional month where i had to ask dear "mummy" to cover it while i get the money together. I'm 17 now, and looking forward to a healthy future of College, Eve, and Work. God i need to train Multitasking level 5 . Originally by: Dirk Magnum I've become gay for Mark Harmon despite my initial reservations about the show NCIS but nobody will ever know
Grek Forto Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2009.05.31 00:27:00 - [14] Originally by: Delvardious Kaesos and those less mature gamers who somehow make it through the learning curve are griefed continuously until they quit. Amen to that! Originally by: Stitcher It's "Caldari", not "Caldarians". One Caldari, three Caldari, all the Caldari are doing Caldari things using Caldari tools in a Caldari way.
Greenlike ish	Posted - 2009.05.31 06:43:00 - [15] I'm immature and playing. I love EVE
Brujo Loco Amarr Brujeria Teologica	Posted - 2009.05.31 08:11:00 - [16] You know what makes EVE what it is ? SPREADSHEETS ... MENUS/SUBMENUS/EMERGING TOOLPTIPS and SHIP SPINNING Amidst all that is a ship doing pew pew but thats just secondary. When new players come here, and after inviting/showing people eve online all they say is ... "And what's the point of the game?" with a face that somehow resembles people eating squig entrails. At first I usually answered by saying anything they wanted/sandbox/open ended/etc. these days I don't even bother showing them. I still remember my gf's comment when I logged in in front of her, changed a few skills, made a few mad spins on my ships and checked the market, then logged out " ... Uh .. what did you just do? is that the game you always talk about? ..." And was like "you need help" faceset Yep, learning curve. Viva VENEZUELA!!! Archipelago Theory
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.05.31 09:05:00 - [17] I used to love the arguements on SWG when someone asked for its old slow decay system. Pages of people screaming that it would kill off the game, punish the nubs, ect, only to get put down by me posting a KM from some nub hauler who lost more cash than its possible for the bank in swg to hold. Unfortunatly eve has now spoiled every other MMO for me since none of them have any risk involved
Constantine Arcanum IMPERIAL SENATE Initiative Associates	Posted - 2009.05.31 11:13:00 - [18] Originally by: baltec1 Unfortunatly eve has now spoiled every other MMO for me since none of them have any risk involved Other MMOs make it difficult / impossible to grief people too, whereas in eve there are actually mechanisms in place that allow you to grief to your heart's content... i.e. podding someone then using a locator agent to find where they went, then going and podding them again . I'd love for a Warhammer 40,000 MMO though, even if it was a carebear-fest. Or World of Starcraft
Thuranni ffffffffffffffffffffffffffff	Posted - 2009.05.31 17:52:00 - [19] Originally by: Rudy Gnarl However, they were sick of doodz (in BF2, which I do have experience with, the doodz did tend to ruin things with their bunny hopping tactics - ****ing bunny hoppers) I played BF2 for a long while, and I always saw these server with rules like "NO BUNNY HOPPING!!! NO SPAWN RAPING!!!". I always thought that these rules were, well, moronic. Can you please explain to me how using some tactics is somehow immoral and makes you a worse player? How the hell does bunny hopping "ruin" the game?
Rudy Gnarl Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2009.05.31 19:22:00 - [20] Originally by: Thuranni Originally by: Rudy Gnarl However, they were sick of doodz (in BF2, which I do have experience with, the doodz did tend to ruin things with their bunny hopping tactics - **ing bunny hoppers) I played BF2 for a long while, and I always saw these server with rules like "NO BUNNY HOPPING!!! NO SPAWN RAPING!!!". I always thought that these rules were, well, moronic. Can you please explain to me how using some tactics is somehow immoral and makes you a worse player? How the hell does bunny hopping "ruin" the game? Umm, it's lame. For myself and my friends what we were looking for was something a bit more realistic. (And the spawn camping - so frustrating, and again lame, made the game unplayable - imagine every time you spawn you die - wow this is fun). So when Project Reality was produced, a mod for BF2, then we got into it and loved it. That's all. It's pretty lame to play a 'realistic' shooter and see a bunch of dudes bunny hopping around, that's all. Call me, well, whatever you want, I just didn't like it. Now getting gunned down by helicopters - that was frustrating but completely an expected part of being a foot soldier. Getting blasted by artillery and having no where to take cover -expected. Getting run over or shot down by a tank while running around without cover - expected. Getting bested by someone who was better at me in the game (and I guess you could say being a better bunny hopper made them better at the game, I guess ) well I got shot in my face tons - and that was part of the game. Now, while playing against the Chinese team I guess I can't complain anymore, can I. --- Am I being targeted, wait, ahh, they're all red now! Why won't it warp, it's not responding. Okay warp to zero. Damn it my pod too. F***g lag! [lesson learned: log for lag]

Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.31 19:30:00 - [21] So which eve do you play exactly and which forums do you visit? Eve is the only mmo i play, so maybe others are worse. But if i just look at other games i play, than the eve community is at least as bad as them, probably worse. And that crap about the learning curve is mainly to self-inflate your ego. Sure it is harder than wow, but the average rts has at least an equal learning curve (allthough they have non-sucky tutorials). Then we got people with their wrong idea that somehow younger people wont understand eve and will always be immature, if i was young i probably wouldnt tell anyone, just to make sure you dont get all the crap from the 'mature' eve players.
Thuranni ffffffffffffffffffffffffffff	Posted - 2009.05.31 19:32:00 - [22] Originally by: Rudy Gnarl Originally by: Thuranni Originally by: Rudy Gnarl However, they were sick of doodz (in BF2, which I do have experience with, the doodz did tend to ruin things with their bunny hopping tactics - **ing bunny hoppers) I played BF2 for a long while, and I always saw these server with rules like "NO BUNNY HOPPING!!! NO SPAWN RAPING!!!". I always thought that these rules were, well, moronic. Can you please explain to me how using some tactics is somehow immoral and makes you a worse player? How the hell does bunny hopping "ruin" the game? Umm, it's lame. For myself and my friends what we were looking for was something a bit more realistic. (And the spawn camping - so frustrating, and again lame, made the game unplayable - imagine every time you spawn you die - wow this is fun). So when Project Reality was produced, a mod for BF2, then we got into it and loved it. That's all. It's pretty lame to play a 'realistic' shooter and see a bunch of dudes bunny hopping around, that's all. Call me, well, whatever you want, I just didn't like it. Now getting gunned down by helicopters - that was frustrating but completely an expected part of being a foot soldier. Getting blasted by artillery and having no where to take cover -expected. Getting run over or shot down by a tank while running around without cover - expected. Getting bested by someone who was better at me in the game (and I guess you could say being a better bunny hopper made them better at the game, I guess ) well I got shot in my face tons - and that was part of the game. Now, while playing against the Chinese team I guess I can't complain anymore, can I. Lol, well, I was playing BF2, not a realistic shooter. Didn't they make it so that when you were mid air when jumping, you couldn't fire your gun anyway? Or am I thinking of some other game. As for spawn camping, if ever one team got into a position of being spawn camped to hell with no recourse, the reason for that was that they were ** and losing anyway.
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2009.05.31 19:32:00 - [23] Originally by: Thuranni Originally by: Rudy Gnarl However, they were sick of doodz (in BF2, which I do have experience with, the doodz did tend to ruin things with their bunny hopping tactics - ****ing bunny hoppers) I played BF2 for a long while, and I always saw these server with rules like "NO BUNNY HOPPING!!! NO SPAWN RAPING!!!". I always thought that these rules were, well, moronic. Can you please explain to me how using some tactics is somehow immoral and makes you a worse player? How the hell does bunny hopping "ruin" the game? 1. Bunny hopping is essentially a game breaking mechanic that alot of developers add for some reason. If your tactic to avoid getting killed is to repeatedly hit the space/jump key constantly while bum rushing the enemy base something is seriously wrong. 2. Imagine your base being pinned down by the enemy, all who are snipers or have vechicles to plow you over the moment the game decides to pop you onto a spawn point only to see your body die and wait another 5 or however long seconds before the respawn and repeat again the above. sounds boring huh. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
Thuranni ffffffffffffffffffffffffffff	Posted - 2009.05.31 19:57:00 - [24] Originally by: Jacob Mei Originally by: Thuranni Originally by: Rudy Gnarl However, they were sick of doodz (in BF2, which I do have experience with, the doodz did tend to ruin things with their bunny hopping tactics - ****ing bunny hoppers) I played BF2 for a long while, and I always saw these server with rules like "NO BUNNY HOPPING!!! NO SPAWN RAPING!!!". I always thought that these rules were, well, moronic. Can you please explain to me how using some tactics is somehow immoral and makes you a worse player? How the hell does bunny hopping "ruin" the game? 1. Bunny hopping is essentially a game breaking mechanic that alot of developers add for some reason. If your tactic to avoid getting killed is to repeatedly hit the space/jump key constantly while bum rushing the enemy base something is seriously wrong. 2. Imagine your base being pinned down by the enemy, all who are snipers or have vechicles to plow you over the moment the game decides to pop you onto a spawn point only to see your body die and wait another 5 or however long seconds before the respawn and repeat again the above. sounds boring huh. 1. In BF2 you could not fire your weapon when airborne. The only time bunny hopping was even remotely effective was in extremely close quarters, and even then it was extremely limited. 2. The only way your scenario can possibly take place is if your team is complete, unfiltered, pure, rubbish. At that point you will lose the game in minutes anyway.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.05.31 20:57:00 - [25] Originally by: Furb Killer So which eve do you play exactly and which forums do you visit? And that crap about the learning curve is mainly to self-inflate your ego. Sure it is harder than wow, but the average rts has at least an equal learning curve (allthough they have non-sucky tutorials). I dont find any RTS that hard to grasp. Generaly its "heres your resources, theres your power now spam tanks like a madman and get that nuke online before the other guy."
Korodan Minmatar Adhocracy Incorporated	Posted - 2009.05.31 21:08:00 - [26] Edited by: Korodan on 31/05/2009 21:11:03 Originally by: Jacob Mei 1. Bunny hopping is essentially a game breaking mechanic that alot of developers add for some reason. If your tactic to avoid getting killed is to repeatedly hit the space/jump key constantly while bum rushing the enemy base something is seriously wrong. IIRC it all started with the granddaddy of multiplayer shooters - Quake. "Bunny-hopping" was a bug in the physics engine, but after Id Software found it they decided "Hey, this is pretty cool for deathmatches" and kept it in. The rest is history.
Xen Gin Solar Excavations Ultd. Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.31 21:35:00 - [27] Originally by: Korodan Edited by: Korodan on 31/05/2009 21:11:03 Originally by: Jacob Mei 1. Bunny hopping is essentially a game breaking mechanic that alot of developers add for some reason. If your tactic to avoid getting killed is to repeatedly hit the space/jump key constantly while bum rushing the enemy base something is seriously wrong. IIRC it all started with the granddaddy of multiplayer shooters - Quake. "Bunny-hopping" was a bug in the physics engine, but after Id Software found it they decided "Hey, this is pretty cool for deathmatches" and kept it in. The rest is history. Along with Rocket Jumping.
Kalahari Wayrest	Posted - 2009.05.31 21:39:00 - [28] Quote: Eve is the only mmo i play, so maybe others are worse. But if i just look at other games i play, than the eve community is at least as bad as them, probably worse. And that crap about the learning curve is mainly to self-inflate your ego. Sure it is harder than wow, but the average rts has at least an equal learning curve (allthough they have non-sucky tutorials). Then we got people with their wrong idea that somehow younger people wont understand eve and will always be immature, if i was young i probably wouldnt tell anyone, just to make sure you dont get all the crap from the 'mature' eve players. Eve is full of basement dwellers with superiority complexes. But I'm better than all of you. goes back to the basement __________________________ Indulge Me Consider Yourself Indulged - Immy ♥ Wow immy scored - Xorus
Intense Thinker Minmatar	Posted - 2009.05.31 22:06:00 - [29] I don't have a basement Pomp FTW!!!
Kalahari Wayrest	Posted - 2009.05.31 23:07:00 - [30] then I'm definately better than you ...actually, I don't have a basement either __________________________ Indulge Me Consider Yourself Indulged - Immy ♥ Wow immy scored - Xorus



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