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EVE - A different kind of MMO - Learning curve responsible?

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Rudy Gnarl Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2009.05.30 05:01:00 - [1] Two of my best buddies introduced me to EVE telling me it was different than other MMOs. Now for me this didn't mean much, since I had never seriously played another MMO. However, they were sick of doodz (in BF2, which I do have experience with, the doodz did tend to ruin things with their bunny hopping tactics - **ing bunny hoppers) and explained that EVE had a lot less of the dood element. Now, as I have been playing for almost a year now, I have to say that I agree, EVE is different. These forums for instance have proven to be a very pleasant place to discuss all sorts of topics, seriously though, this community is way above the curve in regards to informative and well thought responses to posts. I have found that many forums in rl are full of much more trolling and flaming and quite frankly almost impossible to have discussions without having to sift through all of the ignorant bs. Now my friends have a theory as to why and how EVE has risen above the doodlyness of the online gaming world - the learning curve in EVE drives away younger, and less mature gamers, and attracts more sophisticated gamers. Let me know what you all think of this theory. --- Am I being targeted, wait, ahh, they're all red now! Why won't it warp, it's not responding. Okay warp to zero. Damn it my pod too. F***g lag! [lesson learned: log for lag]
BlackDragonShadow Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.30 05:08:00 - [2] Quote: The learning curve in EVE drives away younger, and less mature gamers, and attracts more sophisticated gamers. That about sums it up. And I think it has something to do with the whole space genera. I tend to find that people who like sci-fi are a bit smarter because they read something and then go "Hey is that even possible" and they look it up. Where as everyone knows throwing a Harry Potter spell is craziness. But shooting a laser gun is awesome. This sig was awesome but needs more EvE related content. - Mitnal Fine. EVE Online
Intense Thinker Minmatar	Posted - 2009.05.30 06:12:00 - [3] Damn those bunnyhoppers! Pomp FTW!!!
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.05.30 07:41:00 - [4] As unbelievable as it may sound, we have a positively upstanding forum community here compared to the forums for other MMOs. So yes, I'll buy the argument that this game has more sophisticated players, although I think that mainly comes from the fact that the average Eve player is older than the average player from WoW. We filter out the young teenagers and as a result aren't barraged constantly by incoherent whining.
Rudy Gnarl Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2009.05.30 08:11:00 - [5] Originally by: Intense Thinker Damn those bunnyhoppers! I love it! --- Am I being targeted, wait, ahh, they're all red now! Why won't it warp, it's not responding. Okay warp to zero. Damn it my pod too. F*****g lag! [lesson learned: log for lag]
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei Guardian Federation	Posted - 2009.05.30 15:39:00 - [6] Quote: These forums for instance have proven to be a very pleasant place to discuss all sorts of topics, seriously though, this community is way above the curve in regards to informative and well thought responses to posts. I have found that many forums in rl are full of much more trolling and flaming and quite frankly almost impossible to have discussions without having to sift through all of the ignorant bs. You are talking about General Discussion of eveonline.com? Are we reading the same forum? Or was one of the Wormholes actually a portal to a paralell universe? Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
ReaperOfSly Gallente Zetsubou Corp	Posted - 2009.05.30 15:53:00 - [7] Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Quote: These forums for instance have proven to be a very pleasant place to discuss all sorts of topics, seriously though, this community is way above the curve in regards to informative and well thought responses to posts. I have found that many forums in rl are full of much more trolling and flaming and quite frankly almost impossible to have discussions without having to sift through all of the ignorant bs. You are talking about General Discussion of eveonline.com? Are we reading the same forum? Or was one of the Wormholes actually a portal to a paralell universe? Ah, so naive. ____________________
Delvardious Kaesos Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.30 17:55:00 - [8] and those less mature gamers who somehow make it through the learning curve are griefed continuously until they quit.
mercyonman Caldari Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.30 18:01:00 - [9] i started playing eve when i was 14. and in 7th grade lol. the second corp i got into had an age limit of 21. and i told bthem my age after doing a couple missions with them and they let me in. and all the people in my age group said "eve was too confusing" and also "takes too long" lol well i love eve "Boo hoo. Cry some more." - DEV CCP Whisper
mercyonman Caldari Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.30 18:03:00 - [10] Originally by: Dirk Magnum We filter out the young teenagers and as a result aren't barraged constantly by incoherent whining. so your saying all "younger people" whine? "Boo hoo. Cry some more." - DEV CCP Whisper

Rudy Gnarl Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2009.05.30 19:42:00 - [11] Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Quote: These forums for instance have proven to be a very pleasant place to discuss all sorts of topics, seriously though, this community is way above the curve in regards to informative and well thought responses to posts. I have found that many forums in rl are full of much more trolling and flaming and quite frankly almost impossible to have discussions without having to sift through all of the ignorant bs. You are talking about General Discussion of eveonline.com? Are we reading the same forum? Or was one of the Wormholes actually a portal to a paralell universe? Umm, I think your quote says it all. I have found that yes there are some trolls and ignorant or mean comments, but for the most part the forums here are much more pleasant, imho. Originally by: mercyonman Originally by: Dirk Magnum We filter out the young teenagers and as a result aren't barraged constantly by incoherent whining. so your saying all "younger people" whine? No of course not. St I whine and complain all of the time. I think that you said it yourself in your first post - most teenagers and younger people would rather have simple faster satisfaction from a game. My 13-year old son sat down in front of EVE a few months ago to mess around and never sat down again (I asked him to help me ice mine, maybe that's why . . . ). I don't mean to stereotype I simply think that EVE is a more mature and complex game when compared to most other MMOs and RPGs. It has almost a turn based strategy feel to the logistics and preparation it can take to make things happen, which is probably why I like it so much. --- Am I being targeted, wait, ahh, they're all red now! Why won't it warp, it's not responding. Okay warp to zero. Damn it my pod too. F***g lag! [lesson learned: log for lag]
Draeca Tharri and Co.	Posted - 2009.05.30 21:48:00 - [12] Eve is a huge sandbox game, doodz like simple arcade games.
Alex Raptos Caldari Phoenix Rising.	Posted - 2009.05.30 23:05:00 - [13] Speaking from the point of view of someone who joined eve when they were a mere 14; Eve tends to drive away the complete morons because it has no instant gratification. They cannot simply say "HAY MOM LOOK WUT I DID". More often than not it turns into "HAY THAT GUY HURT ME MOMMY MAKE IT BETTA". They get made to feel like idiots and that in turn pushes them away to more simple games (World of Warcraft, Console games, and so forth). Young players often (but not always) stick to one mindset and continue till that brings success. In eve, that will simply not work and they either get pushed back to square one so many times that they don't want to play, or they adapt, mature and overcome (Like i did, and trust me i was a burden to my first corp, seriously) the problems eve presents you with by adopting new mindsets, and trust me the few "kids" who can do this (I say "kids" the way i do because its not as simple as an age group, in reality this could include anyone from the teens to their early 20's) often become some of the better players i have met. Personally i'm going on 3 and a half years on playing eve, i've covered most of my own subscription minus the occasional month where i had to ask dear "mummy" to cover it while i get the money together. I'm 17 now, and looking forward to a healthy future of College, Eve, and Work. God i need to train Multitasking level 5 . Originally by: Dirk Magnum I've become gay for Mark Harmon despite my initial reservations about the show NCIS but nobody will ever know
Grek Forto Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2009.05.31 00:27:00 - [14] Originally by: Delvardious Kaesos and those less mature gamers who somehow make it through the learning curve are griefed continuously until they quit. Amen to that! Originally by: Stitcher It's "Caldari", not "Caldarians". One Caldari, three Caldari, all the Caldari are doing Caldari things using Caldari tools in a Caldari way.
Greenlike ish	Posted - 2009.05.31 06:43:00 - [15] I'm immature and playing. I love EVE
Brujo Loco Amarr Brujeria Teologica	Posted - 2009.05.31 08:11:00 - [16] You know what makes EVE what it is ? SPREADSHEETS ... MENUS/SUBMENUS/EMERGING TOOLPTIPS and SHIP SPINNING Amidst all that is a ship doing pew pew but thats just secondary. When new players come here, and after inviting/showing people eve online all they say is ... "And what's the point of the game?" with a face that somehow resembles people eating squig entrails. At first I usually answered by saying anything they wanted/sandbox/open ended/etc. these days I don't even bother showing them. I still remember my gf's comment when I logged in in front of her, changed a few skills, made a few mad spins on my ships and checked the market, then logged out " ... Uh .. what did you just do? is that the game you always talk about? ..." And was like "you need help" faceset Yep, learning curve. Viva VENEZUELA!!! Archipelago Theory
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.05.31 09:05:00 - [17] I used to love the arguements on SWG when someone asked for its old slow decay system. Pages of people screaming that it would kill off the game, punish the nubs, ect, only to get put down by me posting a KM from some nub hauler who lost more cash than its possible for the bank in swg to hold. Unfortunatly eve has now spoiled every other MMO for me since none of them have any risk involved
Constantine Arcanum IMPERIAL SENATE Initiative Associates	Posted - 2009.05.31 11:13:00 - [18] Originally by: baltec1 Unfortunatly eve has now spoiled every other MMO for me since none of them have any risk involved Other MMOs make it difficult / impossible to grief people too, whereas in eve there are actually mechanisms in place that allow you to grief to your heart's content... i.e. podding someone then using a locator agent to find where they went, then going and podding them again . I'd love for a Warhammer 40,000 MMO though, even if it was a carebear-fest. Or World of Starcraft
Thuranni ffffffffffffffffffffffffffff	Posted - 2009.05.31 17:52:00 - [19] Originally by: Rudy Gnarl However, they were sick of doodz (in BF2, which I do have experience with, the doodz did tend to ruin things with their bunny hopping tactics - ****ing bunny hoppers) I played BF2 for a long while, and I always saw these server with rules like "NO BUNNY HOPPING!!! NO SPAWN RAPING!!!". I always thought that these rules were, well, moronic. Can you please explain to me how using some tactics is somehow immoral and makes you a worse player? How the hell does bunny hopping "ruin" the game?
Rudy Gnarl Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2009.05.31 19:22:00 - [20] Originally by: Thuranni Originally by: Rudy Gnarl However, they were sick of doodz (in BF2, which I do have experience with, the doodz did tend to ruin things with their bunny hopping tactics - **ing bunny hoppers) I played BF2 for a long while, and I always saw these server with rules like "NO BUNNY HOPPING!!! NO SPAWN RAPING!!!". I always thought that these rules were, well, moronic. Can you please explain to me how using some tactics is somehow immoral and makes you a worse player? How the hell does bunny hopping "ruin" the game? Umm, it's lame. For myself and my friends what we were looking for was something a bit more realistic. (And the spawn camping - so frustrating, and again lame, made the game unplayable - imagine every time you spawn you die - wow this is fun). So when Project Reality was produced, a mod for BF2, then we got into it and loved it. That's all. It's pretty lame to play a 'realistic' shooter and see a bunch of dudes bunny hopping around, that's all. Call me, well, whatever you want, I just didn't like it. Now getting gunned down by helicopters - that was frustrating but completely an expected part of being a foot soldier. Getting blasted by artillery and having no where to take cover -expected. Getting run over or shot down by a tank while running around without cover - expected. Getting bested by someone who was better at me in the game (and I guess you could say being a better bunny hopper made them better at the game, I guess ) well I got shot in my face tons - and that was part of the game. Now, while playing against the Chinese team I guess I can't complain anymore, can I. --- Am I being targeted, wait, ahh, they're all red now! Why won't it warp, it's not responding. Okay warp to zero. Damn it my pod too. F***g lag! [lesson learned: log for lag]

Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.31 19:30:00 - [21] So which eve do you play exactly and which forums do you visit? Eve is the only mmo i play, so maybe others are worse. But if i just look at other games i play, than the eve community is at least as bad as them, probably worse. And that crap about the learning curve is mainly to self-inflate your ego. Sure it is harder than wow, but the average rts has at least an equal learning curve (allthough they have non-sucky tutorials). Then we got people with their wrong idea that somehow younger people wont understand eve and will always be immature, if i was young i probably wouldnt tell anyone, just to make sure you dont get all the crap from the 'mature' eve players.
Thuranni ffffffffffffffffffffffffffff	Posted - 2009.05.31 19:32:00 - [22] Originally by: Rudy Gnarl Originally by: Thuranni Originally by: Rudy Gnarl However, they were sick of doodz (in BF2, which I do have experience with, the doodz did tend to ruin things with their bunny hopping tactics - **ing bunny hoppers) I played BF2 for a long while, and I always saw these server with rules like "NO BUNNY HOPPING!!! NO SPAWN RAPING!!!". I always thought that these rules were, well, moronic. Can you please explain to me how using some tactics is somehow immoral and makes you a worse player? How the hell does bunny hopping "ruin" the game? Umm, it's lame. For myself and my friends what we were looking for was something a bit more realistic. (And the spawn camping - so frustrating, and again lame, made the game unplayable - imagine every time you spawn you die - wow this is fun). So when Project Reality was produced, a mod for BF2, then we got into it and loved it. That's all. It's pretty lame to play a 'realistic' shooter and see a bunch of dudes bunny hopping around, that's all. Call me, well, whatever you want, I just didn't like it. Now getting gunned down by helicopters - that was frustrating but completely an expected part of being a foot soldier. Getting blasted by artillery and having no where to take cover -expected. Getting run over or shot down by a tank while running around without cover - expected. Getting bested by someone who was better at me in the game (and I guess you could say being a better bunny hopper made them better at the game, I guess ) well I got shot in my face tons - and that was part of the game. Now, while playing against the Chinese team I guess I can't complain anymore, can I. Lol, well, I was playing BF2, not a realistic shooter. Didn't they make it so that when you were mid air when jumping, you couldn't fire your gun anyway? Or am I thinking of some other game. As for spawn camping, if ever one team got into a position of being spawn camped to hell with no recourse, the reason for that was that they were ** and losing anyway.
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2009.05.31 19:32:00 - [23] Originally by: Thuranni Originally by: Rudy Gnarl However, they were sick of doodz (in BF2, which I do have experience with, the doodz did tend to ruin things with their bunny hopping tactics - ****ing bunny hoppers) I played BF2 for a long while, and I always saw these server with rules like "NO BUNNY HOPPING!!! NO SPAWN RAPING!!!". I always thought that these rules were, well, moronic. Can you please explain to me how using some tactics is somehow immoral and makes you a worse player? How the hell does bunny hopping "ruin" the game? 1. Bunny hopping is essentially a game breaking mechanic that alot of developers add for some reason. If your tactic to avoid getting killed is to repeatedly hit the space/jump key constantly while bum rushing the enemy base something is seriously wrong. 2. Imagine your base being pinned down by the enemy, all who are snipers or have vechicles to plow you over the moment the game decides to pop you onto a spawn point only to see your body die and wait another 5 or however long seconds before the respawn and repeat again the above. sounds boring huh. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
Thuranni ffffffffffffffffffffffffffff	Posted - 2009.05.31 19:57:00 - [24] Originally by: Jacob Mei Originally by: Thuranni Originally by: Rudy Gnarl However, they were sick of doodz (in BF2, which I do have experience with, the doodz did tend to ruin things with their bunny hopping tactics - ****ing bunny hoppers) I played BF2 for a long while, and I always saw these server with rules like "NO BUNNY HOPPING!!! NO SPAWN RAPING!!!". I always thought that these rules were, well, moronic. Can you please explain to me how using some tactics is somehow immoral and makes you a worse player? How the hell does bunny hopping "ruin" the game? 1. Bunny hopping is essentially a game breaking mechanic that alot of developers add for some reason. If your tactic to avoid getting killed is to repeatedly hit the space/jump key constantly while bum rushing the enemy base something is seriously wrong. 2. Imagine your base being pinned down by the enemy, all who are snipers or have vechicles to plow you over the moment the game decides to pop you onto a spawn point only to see your body die and wait another 5 or however long seconds before the respawn and repeat again the above. sounds boring huh. 1. In BF2 you could not fire your weapon when airborne. The only time bunny hopping was even remotely effective was in extremely close quarters, and even then it was extremely limited. 2. The only way your scenario can possibly take place is if your team is complete, unfiltered, pure, rubbish. At that point you will lose the game in minutes anyway.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.05.31 20:57:00 - [25] Originally by: Furb Killer So which eve do you play exactly and which forums do you visit? And that crap about the learning curve is mainly to self-inflate your ego. Sure it is harder than wow, but the average rts has at least an equal learning curve (allthough they have non-sucky tutorials). I dont find any RTS that hard to grasp. Generaly its "heres your resources, theres your power now spam tanks like a madman and get that nuke online before the other guy."
Korodan Minmatar Adhocracy Incorporated	Posted - 2009.05.31 21:08:00 - [26] Edited by: Korodan on 31/05/2009 21:11:03 Originally by: Jacob Mei 1. Bunny hopping is essentially a game breaking mechanic that alot of developers add for some reason. If your tactic to avoid getting killed is to repeatedly hit the space/jump key constantly while bum rushing the enemy base something is seriously wrong. IIRC it all started with the granddaddy of multiplayer shooters - Quake. "Bunny-hopping" was a bug in the physics engine, but after Id Software found it they decided "Hey, this is pretty cool for deathmatches" and kept it in. The rest is history.
Xen Gin Solar Excavations Ultd. Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.31 21:35:00 - [27] Originally by: Korodan Edited by: Korodan on 31/05/2009 21:11:03 Originally by: Jacob Mei 1. Bunny hopping is essentially a game breaking mechanic that alot of developers add for some reason. If your tactic to avoid getting killed is to repeatedly hit the space/jump key constantly while bum rushing the enemy base something is seriously wrong. IIRC it all started with the granddaddy of multiplayer shooters - Quake. "Bunny-hopping" was a bug in the physics engine, but after Id Software found it they decided "Hey, this is pretty cool for deathmatches" and kept it in. The rest is history. Along with Rocket Jumping.
Kalahari Wayrest	Posted - 2009.05.31 21:39:00 - [28] Quote: Eve is the only mmo i play, so maybe others are worse. But if i just look at other games i play, than the eve community is at least as bad as them, probably worse. And that crap about the learning curve is mainly to self-inflate your ego. Sure it is harder than wow, but the average rts has at least an equal learning curve (allthough they have non-sucky tutorials). Then we got people with their wrong idea that somehow younger people wont understand eve and will always be immature, if i was young i probably wouldnt tell anyone, just to make sure you dont get all the crap from the 'mature' eve players. Eve is full of basement dwellers with superiority complexes. But I'm better than all of you. goes back to the basement __________________________ Indulge Me Consider Yourself Indulged - Immy ♥ Wow immy scored - Xorus
Intense Thinker Minmatar	Posted - 2009.05.31 22:06:00 - [29] I don't have a basement Pomp FTW!!!
Kalahari Wayrest	Posted - 2009.05.31 23:07:00 - [30] then I'm definately better than you ...actually, I don't have a basement either __________________________ Indulge Me Consider Yourself Indulged - Immy ♥ Wow immy scored - Xorus

Rudy Gnarl Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2009.05.31 23:08:00 - [31] I don't think I'm better than anyone else and don't think EVE is objectively a better game than WOW or other MMOs and that I like EVE. From my experience and imho EVE's community is a bit more mature than your usual online gaming community. That's all. And yes, BF2 if your team is getting spawn camped then you have lost and you did a bad job - all I'm saying is that is insanely frustrating, that's all. Cheers --- Am I being targeted, wait, ahh, they're all red now! Why won't it warp, it's not responding. Okay warp to zero. Damn it my pod too. F*****g lag! [lesson learned: log for lag]
Captain Hudson Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.06.01 00:21:00 - [32] Originally by: Rudy Gnarl Originally by: Thuranni Originally by: Rudy Gnarl However, they were sick of doodz (in BF2, which I do have experience with, the doodz did tend to ruin things with their bunny hopping tactics - ****ing bunny hoppers) I played BF2 for a long while, and I always saw these server with rules like "NO BUNNY HOPPING!!! NO SPAWN RAPING!!!". I always thought that these rules were, well, moronic. Can you please explain to me how using some tactics is somehow immoral and makes you a worse player? How the hell does bunny hopping "ruin" the game? Umm, it's lame. For myself and my friends what we were looking for was something a bit more realistic. (And the spawn camping - so frustrating, and again lame, made the game unplayable - imagine every time you spawn you die - wow this is fun). So when Project Reality was produced, a mod for BF2, then we got into it and loved it. That's all. It's pretty lame to play a 'realistic' shooter and see a bunch of dudes bunny hopping around, that's all. Call me, well, whatever you want, I just didn't like it. Now getting gunned down by helicopters - that was frustrating but completely an expected part of being a foot soldier. Getting blasted by artillery and having no where to take cover -expected. Getting run over or shot down by a tank while running around without cover - expected. Getting bested by someone who was better at me in the game (and I guess you could say being a better bunny hopper made them better at the game, I guess ) well I got shot in my face tons - and that was part of the game. Now, while playing against the Chinese team I guess I can't complain anymore, can I. Project Reality rules! Iv found him
Sosus Red Caldari Merrill's Marauders Crimson Dragons	Posted - 2009.06.01 11:27:00 - [33] Do we play the same EVE? Ive been playing EVE on and off for 6 years now and I've come across some mean spirited and devious people. WHen you play the game, you should except the risks involved with losing your ships in combat etc.. but some of the stuff that goes on here is way over the line, bording on sociopathic IMO. Corp thieves for example, gain trust of people and steal thier stuff that they have put REAL time in, RL hours upon hours aquiring. IMO, stealing from others is theft,whether virtual stuff or reall stuff, its still theft. and Pretending to be someones friend in order to do it, thats just plain cold hearted. Real people play the game, not robots. I give you this as an example GHSC. Theft and manipulation are wrong. No I've not been a victim of it but Ive seen a lot of theft and scamming here over the years, enough to realize that this community is not teh best. Lets talk about can flippers, these guys go around high sec greifing people minding their own business mining. They get thier joy by disrupting others people game. How is that playing the game? Theyre not out to steal thier ore, theyre just doing it to greif someone. Being mean spirited for the sake or being mean spirited is not cool. Come on, grow a pair of balls and go out to 0.0 or low sec and fight people who want to fight, no need to pick on some noob, or someone just trying to make some isk and not prepared to battle. And no I dont regularly mine, but I do do it now and again. SO im not a whining miner. Im just someone who points out whats wrong, imo. Back in the day there was a pirate corp called M3G4 who would put jet can all over the other sides of gates, remember back then you didnt jump through cloaked on the other side, jump-poof-there you were on the other side of the gate. Anyways, they would jettison jet cans so when people jumped in on the other side, they were lagged. It was like shooting fish in a barrel. That was reall mature, huh? Ive seen the way some people talk to eachother on the forums, cant get more rude than some of what ive read. That being said, I have met a lot of very cool people also. I would be proud to call some friends IRL. As an example, I won a trip to the 2006 fan fest from EON/CCP. I didnt know anyone who was going. I got there and ended up making friends with a couple guys from the UK, some candians, and a guy from switzterland on the first day. We hung out the entire time and I am still friends with a few to this day. Everyone EVE player I met at the Fan Fest was great. Every one of them, even the goons I met. Yes there are a lot of very cool mature people in this community, but there are also sme real jerks. You must take that into account. Its not all rosie.
Korodan Minmatar Adhocracy Incorporated	Posted - 2009.06.01 18:38:00 - [34] Edited by: Korodan on 01/06/2009 18:38:33 Originally by: Sosus Red Edited by: Sosus Red on 01/06/2009 15:54:35 BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW I'm sorry, EVE is not about "safety" or "e-bushido". In this game there are certain risks that you accept that are unique to EVE - the devs don't care if you get scammed, spied upon, or disbanded by a director level agent. But, on the other side of the coin, if you're smart stuff like this shouldn't happen to you often. As a goon once said "Wallets and IQs tend to equalize." And this means you have much more choice, especially as a new pilot. In WoW you'd be killing wolves for a few weeks to get anywhere, in EVE you could finish the tutorials then gleefully fly off to start a career as a corp thief, using your social skills to rip apart corporations and steal their money. Or go to Jita and master the fine arts of scamming. And that's what makes EVE great, there is much more choice then you'll ever see in WoW or it's limitless hordes of clones. EDIT: Also, in b4 Istvaan.
Deviana Sevidon Gallente Panta-Rhei Guardian Federation	Posted - 2009.06.01 19:00:00 - [35] Well E-Honor or E-Bushido is laughed upon because many think it has no place in EVE. They have the same place in a game as in real life. Just because you can scam and steal does not mean you have to do it. From what I have seen, people who this kind of thing are often insecure. Large Scams and Corporate Theft is not that often done as part of long planned infiltration. Most of the time it is just a Guy or Gal, that refuses to take responsability for a mistake, freaks out and tries to destroy those who threaten their Ego. Those who try to infiltrate Corps to scam them are even more sad. Because when the only Enjoyment you can have is someone else suffering, then there is something wrong with you and should seek professional help. Your lack of Empathy is disturbing. Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
FOl2TY8 Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.06.01 20:40:00 - [36] Originally by: Sosus Red stuffs What you are failing to realize is that the stuff you are complaining about is written into Eve and encouraged on purpose. There is a reason can flipping, corp theft, assassination etc. is a part of this game. ---------- This post brought to you by the worst PVP'er in Eve
Zanarkand Gallente Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2009.06.01 21:19:00 - [37] Edited by: Zanarkand on 01/06/2009 21:19:08 No, it is not. EVE is not "different." It is just a marketing trick by CCP, to make the average player feel better. Seriously, "EVE is for smart people, EVE is more sophisticated... etc", do you actually read what you write?
Taedrin Gallente Golden Mechanization Protectorate	Posted - 2009.06.01 22:55:00 - [38] I can't believe this hasn't been posted yet...
Sosus Red Caldari Merrill's Marauders Crimson Dragons	Posted - 2009.06.01 23:04:00 - [39] Originally by: Korodan Edited by: Korodan on 01/06/2009 18:38:33 Originally by: Sosus Red Edited by: Sosus Red on 01/06/2009 15:54:35 BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW I'm sorry, EVE is not about "safety" or "e-bushido". In this game there are certain risks that you accept that are unique to EVE - the devs don't care if you get scammed, spied upon, or disbanded by a director level agent. But, on the other side of the coin, if you're smart stuff like this shouldn't happen to you often. As a goon once said "Wallets and IQs tend to equalize." And this means you have much more choice, especially as a new pilot. In WoW you'd be killing wolves for a few weeks to get anywhere, in EVE you could finish the tutorials then gleefully fly off to start a career as a corp thief, using your social skills to rip apart corporations and steal their money. Or go to Jita and master the fine arts of scamming. And that's what makes EVE great, there is much more choice then you'll ever see in WoW or it's limitless hordes of clones. EDIT: Also, in b4 Istvaan. Yes I realize this. im not saying is goes against the game, or isnt part of EVE. Im merely stating that imo the people who participate in this are of low moral character to begin with. Destroying others efforts and griefing may be part of the game but it still does not make it socially acceptable, to me atleast. I wouldnt say that this type of behavior is what makes EVE "Great", it's just what makes it different. Being that there are thousands of people in this community that love to greif people, groups of people and not think twice about it, and these people are hailed as Heros by a large segment of the community, is why I cant say that EVE has the best MMO community. Can flipper type greifers dont really bothers me, im just like "get a life guys". What I have experienced first hand though is spies. I was in a large 0.0 alliance and I recruited this player to the corp I was in. Checked his API to make sure it was a legit character and let him in the corp. a few weeks into his tenure he made friends with everyone and seemed like a real cool guy. Bam, my alliances space was invaded by another alliance. Were running combat ops on TS against them and is seemed like the invaders could anticipate our moves so we got suspicious. I cant recall how he got outed, it was a long while ago, but he was relaying intel from TS. before he was podded and sent on his way he bragged about how he was paid to do it and it was planned before he joined the corp. This was pretty low. yeah its a game, but the game is played with real people. He manipulated everyone, pretending to be friends. That shows a pretty shallow moral fiber IRL. Theres really no way of stopping acts like this. The invading force couldnt come to the battlefield and fight clean? Thats cheating imo. It would be different if people had a way to counter this type of play but there is no way to keep something like that from happening. It happens a lot and will continue to happen. You can be as smart as you can, play as smart as you can, talk about IQ's all you want but you cant stop something like that from happening. Ultimately it comes down to people...some are just plain bad. That is why I say no one can say that eve is the best MMO community. Its just the same as any other community. You have your good and your bad. "And that's what makes EVE great" Yes EVE is a great MMO, teh best imo. This was never about the quality of the game. I thought this thread was about the quality of the community, yeah?
Rudy Gnarl Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2009.06.02 00:55:00 - [40] So being the OP I have to make one thing very clear - I never said that the EVE community was better than other gaming communities, but that it was different, a bit more mature, and in my opinion I like it more. Shoot, my 13 year old son is immature, yes, but I do not consider myself better than him because of it, I love him very much and he and I are different, that's all. Now, Sosus Red about spying and griefing: Griefing, hey if that's what they like to do, great, but it does bring a sense of reality and unpredictability to the game that I enjoy. Now corporate spying and infiltration I think is an amazing aspect of the game. Remeber please that this is a game, yes if a spy makes it harder to play, well so does the guy with the rigged ship that keeps melting my face, but when I loose my ship for the hundredth time, I hope I had fun doing it, that's why I'm playing. For the spy though, I think your taking it a bit to serious. If I had the social skills and the rl time I would love to play spy, man that would be thrilling. A huge virtual society where I can infiltrate and spy on another organization and no one actually gets hurt (physically). Amazing! The counter to the spy is to hire one for yourselves and infiltrate neighboring corporations. There are counters: do your best to really interview members and such. St I don't know. I understand that you feel frustrated by it - but I think if you can step back and really look at it it's really not that serious. It's a game and someone found a way to play it better for a bit and they were successful. Hats off to them - don't get so but hurt. One of the dudes you met at the fan fest might have been a spy for some other corporation - doesn't mean they are like that in real life, this is a role playing game where people can take on roles and experiment with thrilling behavior without risking real life dmg to themselves or others. In real life spying whether in the corporate world or the world of nations is a common daily affair - if your not spying, well your not trying, and you sure as hell will have a disadvantage. But in real life people actually get hurt and killed, at least here no one actually got hurt . . . right? --- Am I being targeted, wait, ahh, they're all red now! Why won't it warp, it's not responding. Okay warp to zero. Damn it my pod too. F***g lag! [lesson learned: log for lag]

Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.02 17:55:00 - [41] Originally by: Taedrin I can't believe this hasn't been posted yet... You deserve to die (ingame) for posting that stupid link. Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Furb Killer So which eve do you play exactly and which forums do you visit? And that crap about the learning curve is mainly to self-inflate your ego. Sure it is harder than wow, but the average rts has at least an equal learning curve (allthough they have non-sucky tutorials). I dont find any RTS that hard to grasp. Generaly its "heres your resources, theres your power now spam tanks like a madman and get that nuke online before the other guy." And exactly trhe same is true for eve. (Try playing the RTS online, and most are not just spamming one unit). The onnly hard part about eve really is the crappy tutorial.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.02 19:07:00 - [42] Originally by: Furb Killer And exactly trhe same is true for eve. (Try playing the RTS online, and most are not just spamming one unit). The onnly hard part about eve really is the crappy tutorial. Oh I beg to differ. It has ben two years now and I still have alot to learn in eve. It took a month to get the fitting right on my sentinel and another to perfect my tactics.
Rudy Gnarl Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2009.06.02 23:27:00 - [43] First of all I thought Taedrin's link was hilarious. I'm sure there are complexities to other games that I don't know much about - but I still got a good laugh. Secondly, I have to agree here with baltec1 up above. I feel like there is so much to learn about the game. I mean I am still learning about the interface almost a year into playing - how many games can you say that about? Not many I would think. (I just found out about the settings on the map that allow you to see systems color-shaded based on multiple options including number of pilots docked or in space - crazy useful for a trader! I guess I need to look around at the options in different menus to really start using the full advantage of the interface). --- Am I being targeted, wait, ahh, they're all red now! Why won't it warp, it's not responding. Okay warp to zero. Damn it my pod too. F*****g lag! [lesson learned: log for lag]
Kes Yogaila Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.06.04 07:37:00 - [44] Quote: A good spy can be better than a million strong army Sun Tzu

CCP Applebabe	Posted - 2009.06.04 11:05:00 - [45] Moved to " General Discussion " . Applebabe Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us

Mikayla Grey Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.04 11:25:00 - [46] Edited by: Mikayla Grey on 04/06/2009 11:26:03 Its probably got more to do with the slow pace to the game. Its similar to a strategy game really. The doodz go out of their mind if they have to wait for more than 2 seconds. Strange as it may sound (especially if you read caod) the forums here are pretty mature compared to most game forums.
Darek Castigatus Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel	Posted - 2009.06.04 11:51:00 - [47] Originally by: Mikayla Grey Its probably got more to do with the slow pace to the game. Its similar to a strategy game really. The doodz go out of their mind if they have to wait for more than 2 seconds. Strange as it may sound (especially if you read caod) the forums here are pretty mature compared to most game forums. This i think is probably the most important reason why twitch monkeys tend not to like eve. I used to play quite a lot at a local LAN centre alongside the usual squad of teenage CSS addicts and the one comment i got more than any other was 'why isnt anything happening'. Something which occured to me one day whilst reading CAOD was that for all the grandstanding and accusations that get thrown around theres a lot less swearing and almost no direct personal attacks, although you do have to distinguish them from 'you just dont get it you silly little man' type posts which pop up all the time, compared to other forums of this type. Maybe that is down to the overall higher age of the average poster or simply because as has been mentioned previously eves playstyle tends to attract people whos first response in an arguement isnt STFU U FUKIN NOOB!!!!
Great Artista Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.06.04 13:28:00 - [48] Edited by: Great Artista on 04/06/2009 13:28:10 Originally by: CCP Applebabe Moved to " General Discussion " . (edit: this came from OOPE; the place where threads go to die) ____ Rockets need a boost. CCP status: [_] Told. [x] Not told. ◕◡◕
SlartiBeerFest	Posted - 2009.06.04 13:31:00 - [49] Edited by: SlartiBeerFest on 04/06/2009 13:32:16 I second that, i posted for help in a war situation couple days ago and got way more replies than expected - and 80-90% were actually helping - only a handful of trolls! well impressed, and thanks to everyone who offered help (i would have added to original post but was a little relieved to see if off the first page of forum :)
Shade Millith International House of PWNCakes Aggression.	Posted - 2009.06.04 13:43:00 - [50] Originally by: SlartiBeerFest Edited by: SlartiBeerFest on 04/06/2009 13:32:16 I second that, i posted for help in a war situation couple days ago and got way more replies than expected - and 80-90% were actually helping - only a handful of trolls! well impressed, and thanks to everyone who offered help (i would have added to original post but was a little relieved to see if off the first page of forum :) It often depends on what your asking and HOW your asking. Starting a thread "X SHIP SUCK'S I CAN'T GET IT TO WORK GIVE ME SETUPS TO KILL SHIPS WITH" Get's you immediatly flame grilled over the fire. Saying "Looking at getting X, I was wondering on some fittings and advice" will generally get you a page of fittings/advice with questions answered, even noobie questions, flame free. --------------------------------------------

Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.06.04 13:54:00 - [51] Originally by: baltec1 Unfortunatly eve has now spoiled every other MMO for me since none of them have any risk involved Amen to this. Without consequences there's no point/no fun for me. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2009.06.04 14:02:00 - [52] Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Those who try to infiltrate Corps to scam them are even more sad. Because when the only Enjoyment you can have is someone else suffering, then there is something wrong with you and should seek professional help. Your lack of Empathy is disturbing. Actually, most of the enjoyment comes from the piles of free money we acquire without having to work very hard. I mean, a guy mines for a year, toils and sweats and labors, then we swoop in and take his life's work without getting our hands dirty. It's fantastic! Really, the suffering of others is merely icing on the cake... delicious, minty icing wrought from pure human misery. With little agony-sprinkles. Ffff. ff.
Landrassa Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company	Posted - 2009.06.04 14:19:00 - [53] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Originally by: Deviana Sevidon Those who try to infiltrate Corps to scam them are even more sad. Because when the only Enjoyment you can have is someone else suffering, then there is something wrong with you and should seek professional help. Your lack of Empathy is disturbing. Actually, most of the enjoyment comes from the piles of free money we acquire without having to work very hard. I mean, a guy mines for a year, toils and sweats and labors, then we swoop in and take his life's work without getting our hands dirty. It's fantastic! Really, the suffering of others is merely icing on the cake... delicious, minty icing wrought from pure human misery. With little agony-sprinkles. Ffff. ff. You...you...magnificent bastard secret admission: sometimes when out hunting solo and there's no point being on voicechat I put on "A$$hole" by Denis Leary and sing along at the top of my voice while podding people. Gotta unwind from that dayjob somehow. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nice corp you got there...would be a shame if something happened to it.
William Pierce Caldari Universal Army Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.06.04 17:49:00 - [54] Originally by: Rudy Gnarl the learning curve in EVE drives away younger, and less mature gamers, and attracts more sophisticated gamers. I have to say that I disagree with this statement. I myself am only 15 years old, but believe myself to be very mature. I started playing in June of '08, and since have gained almost 14 mil sp, mostly in PvP skills. I have over 550 kills to around 60 loses as part of Ushra'Khan, one of the better PvP alliances in the game (no blobbers here), and will often take command of gangs. In fact, if you asked some of my alliance members that didn't know my real age, they'd probably guess an age higher than my own. Why? Because age != maturity. P.S. There are certainly many younger players that are immature, but not all of us are. Please keep that in mind.
SpaceSquirrels Caldari	Posted - 2009.06.04 18:07:00 - [55] I'd say on the flip side of that coin are the egotistical attitudes that come from the perceived "complexity" that is eve. (I am smarter than other gamers because I play EVE.)...whatever. So while there are less "uber doodz" there are more A-holes with their heads up the asses. Can't say which is worse or if there is a worse. I've gotten criticized for playing xbox 360 from eve players. What? However I will say at least with said eve Epeeners I can sometimes carry on a conversation without reading the words/gibberish 133t, PWN, I rOCkoRz!! etc. As for the forums.... there's actually a lot of personal attacks on here. More so than the other forums I've trolled. (DAOC, AOC, WAR, WOW, planetside, etc etc. Not in that order) Goes with the egoistical personalities I guess. Take the good with the bad i guess is the moral of the story. _________________________ "You know how I know you're a nerd?" What the frak are you talking about? "You make it so easy"
Rudy Gnarl Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2009.06.05 23:32:00 - [56] Originally by: William Pierce Originally by: Rudy Gnarl the learning curve in EVE drives away younger, and less mature gamers, and attracts more sophisticated gamers. I have to say that I disagree with this statement. I myself am only 15 years old, but believe myself to be very mature. I started playing in June of '08, and since have gained almost 14 mil sp, mostly in PvP skills. I have over 550 kills to around 60 loses as part of Ushra'Khan, one of the better PvP alliances in the game (no blobbers here), and will often take command of gangs. In fact, if you asked some of my alliance members that didn't know my real age, they'd probably guess an age higher than my own. Why? Because age != maturity. P.S. There are certainly many younger players that are immature, but not all of us are. Please keep that in mind. Please know I am not stating that all young people are immature, quite the opposite, I think there are a lot of younger people who are very mature and a lot of adults who never made it out of junior high, I'm not really sure age has that much to do with it, more life circumstance than anything. I think your story kind of adds proof to the pudding though that EVE is for more mature players, as you said most of your corps mates would think you were older based on your behavior. Originally by: SpaceSquirrels I'd say on the flip side of that coin are the egotistical attitudes that come from the perceived "complexity" that is eve. (I am smarter than other gamers because I play EVE.)...whatever. So while there are less "uber doodz" there are more A-holes with their heads up the asses. Can't say which is worse or if there is a worse. I've gotten criticized for playing xbox 360 from eve players. What? However I will say at least with said eve Epeeners I can sometimes carry on a conversation without reading the words/gibberish 133t, PWN, I rOCkoRz!! etc. As for the forums.... there's actually a lot of personal attacks on here. More so than the other forums I've trolled. (DAOC, AOC, WAR, WOW, planetside, etc etc. Not in that order) Goes with the egoistical personalities I guess. Take the good with the bad i guess is the moral of the story. Interesting. I would have to agree, especially in the market forum where I have done some asking of questions. There are really good responses but a lot of ego. I have to agree a bit with that. Now on the flip side of that, the main thing I don't like about doodz is there ego in my face, especially after they have toasted me at Quake or whatever shooter I happen to be loosing at. Where as I have seen footage of EVE where guys toast someone and then accept a convo with them and chat about what they did wrong - don't do this next time, you know. So I think it's kind of 6 in one half dozen the other.
UMEE Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.06.06 05:16:00 - [57] Originally by: Rudy Gnarl EVE is different. Two of my best buddies introduced me to EVE telling me it was different than other MMOs. sick of doodz the doodz tend to ruin things with their bunny hopping tactics - ****ing bunny hoppers) These forums for instance have proven to be full of much more trolling and flaming and quite frankly almost impossible to have discussions without having to sift through all of the ignorant bs. the learning curve in EVE drives away younger, more sophisticated gamers. i fully agree.
Rudy Gnarl Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2009.06.06 06:53:00 - [58] Originally by: UMEE Originally by: Rudy Gnarl EVE is different. Two of my best buddies introduced me to EVE telling me it was different than other MMOs. sick of doodz the doodz tend to ruin things with their bunny hopping tactics - ****ing bunny hoppers) These forums for instance have proven to be full of much more trolling and flaming and quite frankly almost impossible to have discussions without having to sift through all of the ignorant bs. the learning curve in EVE drives away younger, more sophisticated gamers. i fully agree. Interesting re-write. So are you hoping to prove that these forums are filled with trolling? Maybe, eh? Funny though, because you really are the first troll here, and it's post 57 . . . hmm, doesn't look like they are filled with trolls, only a few here and there.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.06 08:32:00 - [59] Quote: Oh I beg to differ. It has ben two years now and I still have alot to learn in eve. It took a month to get the fitting right on my sentinel and another to perfect my tactics. Oh i agree with this, the eve learning curve is longer than most games, since there is just so much to do. But what i disagree with that it is steeper. And if it is, the only reason is the crappy tutorial. And Gnarl, if you dont think there is a relation between age and how mature someone behaves, why did you say there is one? And eve has a very large ammount of people who play just to ruin it for others.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.06.06 09:55:00 - [60] the learning curve is overrated. seriously.

FU10011101	Posted - 2009.06.06 14:00:00 - [61] OMG! i can poast again. \0/
Leeluvv Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.06.06 14:51:00 - [62] Originally by: Constantine Arcanum I'd love for a Warhammer 40,000 MMO though, even if it was a carebear-fest. http://www.vigilgames.com/games_40k.php http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/first-warhammer-40k-mmo-details http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6166560.html I don't know whether I should put a sig here or not.
SpaceSquirrels Caldari	Posted - 2009.06.06 15:25:00 - [63] Originally by: Leeluvv Originally by: Constantine Arcanum I'd love for a Warhammer 40,000 MMO though, even if it was a carebear-fest. http://www.vigilgames.com/games_40k.php http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/first-warhammer-40k-mmo-details http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6166560.html Hmmm I love the 40k, But I dont see how an MMO would work for it? I mean everyone fights everyone at some point. Would there really be the what 10 different races? They couldnt do it like WAR online Order vs Destro. Further more creativity gets held back as they have to stick to games workshops' IP. Sounds sort of like tabu rasa...and that didnt work out so well. _________________________ EVE has the biggest haters out of any MMO...
Rudy Gnarl Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2009.06.06 21:56:00 - [64] Originally by: Furb Killer Quote: Oh I beg to differ. It has ben two years now and I still have alot to learn in eve. It took a month to get the fitting right on my sentinel and another to perfect my tactics. Oh i agree with this, the eve learning curve is longer than most games, since there is just so much to do. But what i disagree with that it is steeper. And if it is, the only reason is the crappy tutorial. And Gnarl, if you dont think there is a relation between age and how mature someone behaves, why did you say there is one? And eve has a very large amount of people who play just to ruin it for others. Your right, your right. I kind of painted myself into a corner. Sure, generally maturity comes with age, but all I mean to say, as I evolve my position is that age does not always match maturity. That's all. I'm allowed to evolve and learn and change right. Maybe it didn't come out right the first time.
Yukinagoto	Posted - 2009.06.07 01:25:00 - [65] Get on the bf2s channel in eve. NOW.
Verx Interis Amarr Embers of Fire	Posted - 2009.06.07 01:54:00 - [66] Just on the subject of age: It's not the 16 year olds who wine and yell and crap like that. It's 12-14 year olds who say they're 16 for whatever reason.. Then some of the 16 year olds say they're 20 to avoid people thinking they'll whine. ---- Logins required for this post: 872747
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition	Posted - 2009.06.07 08:15:00 - [67] On the topic of eBushido in EVE: One of the most difficult and rewarding things to do in EVE is to be fully aware of all of the dirty tricks it is possible to perpetrate in this game, to effectively protect yourself against them, and to succeed without needing to employ them yourself. I no way am I saying that players who dip heavily into the bag of dirty tricks are inferior players, nor am I suggesting that they should refrain from using said tactics. Indeed, they are a necessary and vital component of what makes the EVE universe such a challenging environment, and the game would be lessened without them. That being said, it is very satisfying to succeed while still having the control to NOT utilize what one might personally consider unfair tactics... to know you could disrupt (or completely destroy) your enemies voice communications at a critical moment... to resist the temptation to use that alt that ended up in your enemies alliance to rob them blind... but instead beat them through superior tactics, strategy, and skill. Is it more difficult to be successful in the more competitive area's of EVE while still retaining a sense of personal "honor"? Yes, but that just makes things all the more entertaining and challenging. If you are good, you can still be as hard as steel and sharp as a razor even while playing by your own set of ethics... it in no way means you have to be naive or soft. Just don't make the mistake of thinking that someone who does enjoy the freedom of using "whatever works" is displaying some sort of shadowy reflection of their moral fiber in reality.


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