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Rukia KuchikiSan
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Posted - 2009.05.30 09:52:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Rukia KuchikiSan on 30/05/2009 09:53:06
It's very simple, i just realized that:
1. People asking for level 4 agents to be moved are pirates, they want a source of money; this is not acceptable with your lifestyle, you choose to be a pirate? Suffer the consequences and stop crying.
2. Why should agents deal with pirates?
3. There are level 4 agents in 0.0 already, go there.
Start crying (flaming) now.
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DrefsabZN
Caldari Butterfly Effect Corp.
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Posted - 2009.05.30 09:54:00 -
[2]
alt char troll is obvious
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Grez
Minmatar Core Contingency Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.05.30 09:55:00 -
[3]
No. People want them moved so that the risk vs. rewards factor is more balanced.
At the moment people can just do level 4's AFK and rake in the ISK with little to no risk at all.
When you're making that kind of isk, you need to be factoring in risk, and the ratio is just too high in this case.
Level 4's really do need more risk, and the easiest way to do that is to move them into low sec. --- Grez: I shot the sheriff Kalazar: But I could not lock the Deputy BECAUSE OF FALCON |
Rukia KuchikiSan
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Posted - 2009.05.30 09:56:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Grez No. People want them moved so that the risk vs. rewards factor is more balanced.
At the moment people can just do level 4's AFK and rake in the ISK with little to no risk at all.
When you're making that kind of isk, you need to be factoring in risk, and the ratio is just too high in this case.
Level 4's really do need more risk, and the easiest way to do that is to move them into low sec.
That is not an answer, the problem is not with level 4, the problem is with npc corporation: people should be forced out of them and join player corporations that can be wardec'd.
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mechtech
Entropy Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.30 09:59:00 -
[5]
Edited by: mechtech on 30/05/2009 09:59:36 The problem is risk vs reward. This is the one rule of eve, with bigger profits come bigger risks.
It doesn't make sense that the biggest isk gaining activity (barring intelligent player driven methods like trading, ect) is risk free in high sec. Level 4s simply aren't in line with the rest of eve. The profits should be lowered or the risk should be increased.
and war decs have nothing to do with risk vs reward. Corporation war is an independent factor from the inherent risk of an activity like ratting/exploration/missioning.
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Karentaki
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.05.30 10:01:00 -
[6]
The bridge is that way ---> Now go back under it.
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
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Sabrage
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Posted - 2009.05.30 10:39:00 -
[7]
I think it's pretty obvious that people should not be allowed to play the game in a different way than I do and earn more money doing so.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.05.30 10:56:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Rukia KuchikiSan That is not an answer, the problem is not with level 4, the problem is with npc corporation: people should be forced out of them and join player corporations that can be wardec'd.
No, people who enjoy the NPC corps should be allowed to stay there, and that problem is unrelated to the problem with L4s. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.30 11:01:00 -
[9]
Make L4 missions use sleeper AI along with full compliments of EW, that'll fix it
Pomp FTW!!! |
Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2009.05.30 11:04:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Grez No. People want them moved so that the risk vs. rewards factor is more balanced.
At the moment people can just do level 4's AFK and rake in the ISK with little to no risk at all.
When is this ridiculous crying over "risk vs. reward" finally going to stop? There is no risk involved with getting ISK, thousands of people are macro-mining in hi sec and tens of thousands are buying ISK using GTCs. Risk-free.
It's always the spoiled brats who want to play pirates moaning about everything. If you think there is too much reward and too little risk involved in L4's, go make ISK that way and shut up. But be warned: it's dead boring.
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Joe
Umbra Legion Shadow Empire.
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Posted - 2009.05.30 11:05:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Rukia KuchikiSan That is not an answer, the problem is not with level 4, the problem is with npc corporation: people should be forced out of them and join player corporations that can be wardec'd.
No, people who enjoy the NPC corps should be allowed to stay there, and that problem is unrelated to the problem with L4s.
one of the main 'arguements' that the FLOTM forum warriors are using atm is that lvl 4s in hi sec are risk free. Wardeccing interrupts hi sec activities..... If your in a Player run corp
so the 'arguement' that Lvl 4s in hi sec are risk free is only valid if you ammend the statement to 'lvl 4s in hi sec are risk free for Npc corp pilots.
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Chief Simpson
Minmatar Sanitation Worker's Union of Null Sec
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Posted - 2009.05.30 11:07:00 -
[12]
Move the acceleration gates 100km from the warp-in point will fix Level 4s. Silly solution? Sure, but it's as silly as other solutions without supporting analysis. ----------- Cleaning up the garbage in null sec, one belt at a time... |
Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.05.30 11:16:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Wet Ferret on 30/05/2009 11:16:28
Originally by: Intense Thinker Make L4 missions use sleeper AI along with full compliments of EW, that'll up the standard for tanking and ultimately change nothing
fixed
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Esu Nahalas
The Night Corporation
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Posted - 2009.05.30 11:17:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Sabrage I think it's pretty obvious that people should not be allowed to play the game in a different way than I do and earn more money doing so.
Good one. Let me add, "I choose a higher-risk lifestyle, therefore I must be rewarded accordingly. I want isk."
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.05.30 11:18:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Joe one of the main 'arguements' that the FLOTM forum warriors are using atm is that lvl 4s in hi sec are risk free.
…and it's a flawed argument because "risk" comes in many flavours — combat is one of them. Kicking NPC players out of their corp doesn't solve L4s because it doesn't actually adress the key issue, which is the inexhaustible supply of missions. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Commoner
Caldari Empire Harassment
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Posted - 2009.05.30 11:23:00 -
[16]
Almost all lvl 4 lowsec agents are clustered in one station in one system (3 lvl 4 q20 agents for same corp in one system anyone?). Making it easy for pirates to target said runners.
That is bad. More needs to be added and the current highsec lvl 4 agents needs to be moved to the borders of empire, only found in 0.6 and below.
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Von Kapiche
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.30 12:11:00 -
[17]
The biggest problem with L4s is there's no Falcons to whine about this expansion.
Take out the meta 1 drops, that'll help give some point to mining again. OFC then the same people who whine about everything will start whining about the "risk vs reward" ( what sort of ***** came up with that? how about fun? is this a game or a job? ) are gonna do the same about mining.
New mission AI will make people pay proper attention, that's plenty. It'll be a shock to the average part-time player who doesn't read forums who can't actually walk through level 4s, but ofc noone cares about those people, do they.
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Borar
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.30 12:22:00 -
[18]
When you don`t read the forums ,you are a happy guy in eve.
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RedSplat
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.05.30 12:32:00 -
[19]
Pirate PVP in a PVP game, they blew up my ship so they should be punished. Wa Wa Wa
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
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Matrix Skye
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.05.30 12:40:00 -
[20]
Risk vs Reward
Where's the risk in a PVP ship attacking a PVE ship? Where's the risk in wardecing industrial noobs? Where's the risk in scamming with an alt? Where's the risk in suiciding insured ships? Where's the risk in gatecamping? Where's the risk for being a pirate and yet having an alt to shop for you in hisec?
And before you tell me how there's this VERY IMPROBABLE CHANCE you can get a hotdrop on your gatecamp, remember that there's also an improbable chance a mission runner can lose his multi-billion-isk ship to NPCs.
'Risk vs reward' is just a punchline pirates use when it benefits them to use it.
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Spurty
Caldari Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2009.05.30 12:58:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Matrix Skye Risk vs Reward
Where's the risk in a PVP ship attacking a PVE ship? Where's the risk in wardecing industrial noobs? Where's the risk in scamming with an alt? Where's the risk in suiciding insured ships? Where's the risk in gatecamping? Where's the risk for being a pirate and yet having an alt to shop for you in hisec?
And before you tell me how there's this VERY IMPROBABLE CHANCE you can get a hotdrop on your gatecamp, remember that there's also an improbable chance a mission runner can lose his multi-billion-isk ship to NPCs.
'Risk vs reward' is just a punchline pirates use when it benefits them to use it.
amen to this.
There are Level 5 missions in low / null sec, go pew pew those guys. Oh wait a mo, perhaps these guys aren't "solo" and perhaps they aren't even in "PVE" fit ships.
Whats that? They might just eat you up so you are afraid to try.
There again, perhaps no one is really doing level 5s
Why don't you pirates just all move your camps to the Level 5 agent systems? Perhaps run some level 5s yourselves and make some isk while you wait for some 'soft' targets.
Level 4s are meh for both isk and time / effort.
Level 5s, now there's something worth getting hot under the collar about.
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Thus I AM BETTER THAN YOU.
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Mykpilot
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Posted - 2009.05.30 13:07:00 -
[22]
The thing I don't understand is why people complain about L4s giving too much ISK for the reward. Everyone has access to L4s in high sec, if you a 0.0 player, you should have access to jump clones so if you need some "shore leave" and make some steady ISK your a clone jump away.
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Rukia KuchikiSan
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Posted - 2009.05.30 13:15:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Mykpilot The thing I don't understand is why people complain about L4s giving too much ISK for the reward. Everyone has access to L4s in high sec, if you a 0.0 player, you should have access to jump clones so if you need some "shore leave" and make some steady ISK your a clone jump away.
Becouse pirates cry for easy targets boo-hoo
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Gun Gal
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Posted - 2009.05.30 14:03:00 -
[24]
the problem with moving level 4's to o.o is very simple.
it would spell the end of missioning.
as it is now, in high sec you have salvagers who very easily scan down and rip off the mission runners salvage loot. when they aggress he salvager they leave and come back right away in a better ship, usually with remote repping backup.
thus screwing the missionrunner
now , look at moving the agents.
they will scan you down, come in and kill you. you can warp to safe spot, they will take the mission. you wait till mission respawns, they rescan you, warp to you.
face it moving agents to lowsec is stupid, and those that want this change are indeed gankers.
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Kes Yogaila
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.05.30 14:53:00 -
[25]
Quote: Pirate PVP in a PVP game
Contrary to what some narrowminded people think, there's much more to this game than just PVP (just ask Chribba)
Nothing is as fun in Eve as seeing pirates cry over something that carebears do. Please QQ more, make all of us happier.
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Cors
It's A Trap
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Posted - 2009.05.30 14:58:00 -
[26]
name 5 other mmo's where the quest grinding is done in a pvp zone?
I agree that missions in lowsec/0.0 should be tailored to PVP. They should be smaller missions, ones able to be done in a Cruiser/AF/Inty. One where ONLY those sized ships can enter them. So the pirates and the Mission runners are all in smaller cheaper ships.
Why? Because it'd be more fun.
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Idalo
Gallente Danar Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.30 15:39:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Idalo on 30/05/2009 15:39:20 i take it no one has seen the news about CCP adding more lvl 4 agents. maybe some will be in lowsec. crying over something so stupid is childish and immature. EVE is an open game system, if people want to mission in high sec let them. if people want to be in low sec or 0.0 by all means more power to you. But wanting to change the locations of lvl 4 agents to lowsec for a pirates advantage is down right dirty.
as posted above, yes there are lvl 5 agents in low sec that are so much better then lvl 4s isk wise but there is risk to it as well. if you dont like the game the way it is then GTFO.
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Dario Wall
Caldari Corvus Industries
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Posted - 2009.05.30 16:22:00 -
[28]
What I'm curious about is just how many of the people wanting level 4's moved have actually tried running them.
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Hyveres
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.30 16:24:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Grez No. People want them moved so that the risk vs. rewards factor is more balanced.
At the moment people can just do level 4's AFK and rake in the ISK with little to no risk at all.
When you're making that kind of isk, you need to be factoring in risk, and the ratio is just too high in this case.
Level 4's really do need more risk, and the easiest way to do that is to move them into low sec.
Afkmissioning as you descripe it is what 5-10m/hour over time per account used.
Not exactly raking in the isk. When people say 40m/hour they do not mention the 2nd account which ends up placing their income at a level barely above highsec veldspar mining.
Missions are pitifull income compared to all sensible revenuestreams and research is as I see it the most imbalanced one as you dont have to be online to make money with it(luckily not too many people are doing this). "Subtlety is a thing for philosophy, not combat. If you're going to kill someone, you might as well kill them a whole lot." - Vulcan Raven, The Last Days Of Foxhound |
Mr Yarrr
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Posted - 2009.05.30 16:50:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Mr Yarrr on 30/05/2009 16:52:04 this thread is amazing, everyone seems to think it's pirates who are complaining about lvl4s ? i'm a pirate in a pirate corp and no one cares at all lol :P you guys run missions all you like, i run missions on my alt when i need isk and i rake it in :D
Originally by: Matrix Skye Risk vs Reward
Where's the risk in a PVP ship attacking a PVE ship? Where's the risk in wardecing industrial noobs? Where's the risk in scamming with an alt? Where's the risk in suiciding insured ships? Where's the risk in gatecamping? Where's the risk for being a pirate and yet having an alt to shop for you in hisec?
And before you tell me how there's this VERY IMPROBABLE CHANCE you can get a hotdrop on your gatecamp, remember that there's also an improbable chance a mission runner can lose his multi-billion-isk ship to NPCs.
'Risk vs reward' is just a punchline pirates use when it benefits them to use it.
while some of this post is true, there isn't much risk camping a gate etc, but you've missed the whole point, there isn't much reward either !!! we could make so much more isk just running lvl 4s if we wanted, but we choose not to because missions are so boring, and camping gates, and suicide ganking give us something to do inbeetween proper pirating.
don't pin this crappy lvl4 wine stuff on pirates :P
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