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RedSplat
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.05.31 11:32:00 -
[1]
Edited by: RedSplat on 31/05/2009 11:35:23 Currently, entering Highsec as an Outlaw in a ship triggers Faction Navy Spawns.
I propose removing this mechanic entirely with regards to spawn triggers for Outlaws, but not when the individual has sufficiently Low faction stating with that particular Faction so as to be attacked on site by that faction navy.
Let players police Highsec in absence of a GCC- not NPC's.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
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Zarevn
Val'andil Tribe
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Posted - 2009.05.31 12:48:00 -
[2]
Interesting idea, and I do like the sound of it (having lost more than a few ships to the faction navy from crashes and what-not), but 9/10 times when I pass through high-sec as an outlaw i'm not even locked by another player, nevermind attacked. Would have to give them (the high-sec-ees) some real reason to attack us other than the warm fuzzy feeling of a ship kill and maybe a few nanofibers.
Supported to see where it could go, anyhow.
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Grek Forto
Malevolent Intentions
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Posted - 2009.05.31 12:56:00 -
[3]
Supported for teh lulz.
Originally by: Stitcher It's "Caldari", not "Caldarians". One Caldari, three Caldari, all the Caldari are doing Caldari things using Caldari tools in a Caldari way.
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RedSplat
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.05.31 13:28:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Zarevn as an outlaw i'm not even locked by another player, nevermind attacked. Would have to give them (the high-sec-ees) some real reason to attack us
Bountys, T2 loot, PvP.
Just think how many Outlaws would be trying to sneak ships out of highsec- it would be glorious chaos.
As it is i cant go to trade hubs without being chased by interceptors all the way home so i don't think there is MUCH need for incentives besides those that exist already.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
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Larkonis TrassIer
Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.05.31 14:15:00 -
[5]
In two minds about this Redsplat. On the one side it would open up many possibilites for outlaws to go about and engage in combat against the odds.
On the other. I know what I'd do... Sit in an offgrid with a scanning alt out and spend my days suicide ganking.
Also, currently the faction police spawns are incredibly useful for getting BS through those pesky areas of hisec. If they were removed all it would take is some noob in a rifter who was mildly lost and moderately bright to ruin one's day.
It's all very well and good saying let players protect hisec, but do you really think that's going to happen?
Throwing my support in there anyway, just for now.
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RedSplat
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.05.31 14:52:00 -
[6]
Edited by: RedSplat on 31/05/2009 14:53:13
Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer
On the other. I know what I'd do... Sit in an offgrid with a scanning alt out and spend my days suicide ganking.
Also, currently the faction police spawns are incredibly useful for getting BS through those pesky areas of hisec. If they were removed all it would take is some noob in a rifter who was mildly lost and moderately bright to ruin one's day.
It's all very well and good saying let players protect hisec, but do you really think that's going to happen?
We can already suicide gank with utter impunity- or rather to say we can attempt to suicide gank someone.
If you remove Faction Navy spawns and that noob in a rifter does tackle you then you have a fight on your hands- as opposed to NPC's wailing on your ship.
Will other players engage you in Highsec just 'cause you are an Outlaw? I think so, but i don't know so.
Its certainly true that all the advantages would lie with highsec dwellers and not the outlaws.
EDIT: More PvP is good right?
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
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FU22
Beyond Transcendence
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Posted - 2009.05.31 15:40:00 -
[7]
this change would make me go -10.
Fact
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lucifers widow
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Posted - 2009.05.31 20:05:00 -
[8]
Edited by: lucifers widow on 31/05/2009 20:06:47
Originally by: RedSplat
Will other players engage you in Highsec just 'cause you are an Outlaw? I think so, but i don't know so.
Its certainly true that all the advantages would lie with highsec dwellers and not the outlaws.
EDIT: More PvP is good right?
I think it is a very interesting idea, one that the knee jerk reaction from empire dwellers would be a definate no as they would imagine a player sat on a gate baiting people to engage, knowing that he should give a fair few people with limited to no pvp experience a smacking.
But as a director of a carebear corp who has just come out of a war dec ourselves we several pilots who would like the chance to learn and dabble a bit and I think this would give people a great chance to pvp in a enviroment where they would feel as they have control over the situation, as the flashy pilot and only the flashy pilot would be able to return fire only when fired upon and would not get the help from anyone either in his corp or outside unless they also were engaged.
The problem that will occur though is a flashy BS will just sit on a gate fighting anyone who will take them on then when it starts to get a bit hot for him will de-agress and jump out leaving the one tackling him with an agression timer unable to jump and if he does get killed so what, ship is insured and he had a load of fun, so insurance should not be available to criminals in high sec.
So I will give a big thumbs up as it will give us carebears a chance to put a fleet together and try to get a bit of pvp where they can a greater chance of control over the situation, but do think the insurance for criminals in high sec has got to be done away with and gate guns in high sec should insta pop a shuttle or interceptor to stop these crim's from insta warping through high sec and give people a chance of tackling them or this proposed idea will simply be a way for them to get through high sec safer than at the moment unless they want a fight.
EDIT TO ADD.
Am assuming this would also be the case for faction warfare pilots entering opposing factions high sec ?
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Andrest Disch
Debitum Naturae
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Posted - 2009.05.31 20:17:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer In two minds about this Redsplat. On the one side it would open up many possibilites for outlaws to go about and engage in combat against the odds.
On the other. I know what I'd do... Sit in an offgrid with a scanning alt out and spend my days suicide ganking.
Also, currently the faction police spawns are incredibly useful for getting BS through those pesky areas of hisec. If they were removed all it would take is some noob in a rifter who was mildly lost and moderately bright to ruin one's day.
It's all very well and good saying let players protect hisec, but do you really think that's going to happen?
Throwing my support in there anyway, just for now.
How about when a flashy person attacks someone in highsec without aggro rights CONCORD spawns instantly. RPlol could be that CONCORD views pirates as more dangerous so puts more effort into fighting them, but don't kill every pirate in highsec space as it would take to much effort with the Empires backing.
Anyways, supporting this. |
RedSplat
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.05.31 22:30:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Andrest Disch
How about when a flashy person attacks someone in highsec without aggro rights CONCORD spawns instantly. RPlol could be that CONCORD views pirates as more dangerous so puts more effort into fighting them, but don't kill every pirate in highsec space as it would take to much effort without the Empires backing.
Too much of a nerf to suicide ganking i think.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
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Jared D'Uroth
Universal Peace Operation
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Posted - 2009.06.01 04:00:00 -
[11]
What about people who aren't outlaws, but still aren't "allowed"(i.e. a -3.2 in a 0.8) to be in the system. Are they now blinky? ===
Originally by: RedSplat
Originally by: Insurgo Malvir No, but acting like i want + pirate's positive standing = he don't pod me.
Logical Fallacy detected
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Andrest Disch
Amarr Debitum Naturae
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Posted - 2009.06.01 07:20:00 -
[12]
Originally by: RedSplat
Originally by: Andrest Disch
How about when a flashy person attacks someone in highsec without aggro rights CONCORD spawns instantly. RPlol could be that CONCORD views pirates as more dangerous so puts more effort into fighting them, but don't kill every pirate in highsec space as it would take to much effort without the Empires backing.
Too much of a nerf to suicide ganking i think.
Sorry, when I made that post I was thinking from -5.1 sec status onwards. Or is that still to harsh? |
Zostera
Minmatar Honour Bound Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.06.01 09:40:00 -
[13]
Not supported sorry.
Players are free to police low sec currently and it is not particularly effective. If Low-sec were more attractive to pve players then this dynamic would evolve more there and is the appropriate place for it to happen.
"Safe" Hi-sec is vital to the game economy, disrupting it would cause serious issues.
Zos |
Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
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Posted - 2009.06.01 10:13:00 -
[14]
This would require scrapping the request of remote repping an outlaw not causing Global Criminal Countdown for the repairer.
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K1RTH G3RS3N
Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.
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Posted - 2009.06.01 12:17:00 -
[15]
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RedSplat
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.06.01 12:32:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Zostera Not supported sorry.
Players are free to police low sec currently and it is not particularly effective. If Low-sec were more attractive to pve players then this dynamic would evolve more there and is the appropriate place for it to happen.
"Safe" Hi-sec is vital to the game economy, disrupting it would cause serious issues.
Hi-sec has Concord.
Lowsec doesnt.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
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Hung Wang
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Posted - 2009.06.01 14:44:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Hung Wang on 01/06/2009 14:44:22 edit: alt post is fail
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Harotak
THE FINAL STAND Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.01 14:47:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Dibsi Dei This would require scrapping the request of remote repping an outlaw not causing Global Criminal Countdown for the repairer.
No it wouldn't. Anyone who attacks the outlaw would be flagged by the person repairing him. Being vulnerable to attack from anyone anywhere would make combat as an outlaw in high-sec almost suicide anyway.
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Kasi Kasai
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Posted - 2009.06.01 17:00:00 -
[19]
Faction navies are considerably weaker than concord anyway. High sec is just that, high sec, policed by faction navies and concord. The actions of an outlaw should have consequences.
Not supported. |
FunzzeR
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.06.01 17:57:00 -
[20]
Supported
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Yorba
Gemini Technologies
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Posted - 2009.06.01 18:38:00 -
[21]
Supported!
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive
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Posted - 2009.06.01 19:31:00 -
[22]
Not supported.
The faction navies != CONCORD, and the two of them serve a different purpose. You can, if my understanding of the standings system is correct, have a positive security status and still be KOS to a faction navy (I very nearly am to Amarr).
The faction navies keep out people the local government doesn't like. CONCORD is there to keep out people who are actual criminals and to protect the general populace who keep the economy of the cluster working. --Vel
Experience is what you get right after you need it.
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Merw
The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.06.01 21:45:00 -
[23]
I kinda want to support this and yet I kinda don't. It would make suicide ganking a lot easier and that would hurt the game in a lot of ways. But it could also make things more interesting in high sec because when I am there im usually buying something and bored out of my mind so a fight against an epicly tanked pirate bs that everyone outside of Rens is shooting could be fun. Still though high sec needs to have some limitations because it kinda is still high sec. Not saying it should be safe (and in my opinion should be a lot more dangerous because we aren't playing hello kitty here) but if your an infamous murderer.... Maybe there can be some limitations on it though like the faction navys and or concord if you wanna get them involved will arrive in set amount of time if you stay in one place for too long.
Another idea is to make another channel so that you can report outlaws to the militia who can in turn get a fleet to chase after the person. Of course this could be easily abused but at least it will add a new twist to the militias.
Supported either way because I would like to see a change.
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Stil Harkonnen
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Posted - 2009.06.01 22:11:00 -
[24]
Originally by: De'Veldrin Not supported.
The faction navies != CONCORD, and the two of them serve a different purpose. You can, if my understanding of the standings system is correct, have a positive security status and still be KOS to a faction navy (I very nearly am to Amarr).
The faction navies keep out people the local government doesn't like. CONCORD is there to keep out people who are actual criminals and to protect the general populace who keep the economy of the cluster working.
You should support this then because you just said concord is for keeping out criminals and faction navies are here to keep out people the government don't like.
Right now concord keeps out criminals with GCC and also faction navies keep out outlaws...
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive
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Posted - 2009.06.01 23:01:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Stil Harkonnen
Originally by: De'Veldrin Not supported.
The faction navies != CONCORD, and the two of them serve a different purpose. You can, if my understanding of the standings system is correct, have a positive security status and still be KOS to a faction navy (I very nearly am to Amarr).
The faction navies keep out people the local government doesn't like. CONCORD is there to keep out people who are actual criminals and to protect the general populace who keep the economy of the cluster working.
You should support this then because you just said concord is for keeping out criminals and faction navies are here to keep out people the government don't like.
Right now concord keeps out criminals with GCC and also faction navies keep out outlaws...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but - outlaw means you have a standing of -5 of lower with a particular empire faction, which is totally unrelated to your security status? At least that's what I was thinking when I wrote that. --Vel
Experience is what you get right after you need it.
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Stil Harkonnen
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Posted - 2009.06.02 02:53:00 -
[26]
ah well I use the term outlaw for somebody who's security status is under -5
But nvm I see what you mean if you're using outlaw to mean -5 faction standings.
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Dex Nederland
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
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Posted - 2009.06.02 03:38:00 -
[27]
Supporting the discussion.
I like the core idea; NPC Navies protect against those their governments do not like; not those who have necessarily committed an action that CONCORD doesn't like.
So I think that it should be slightly more complicated than simply - "I have 0.0 standing with the Caldari, so I don't have to worry about the CN even though I am -10.0 security rating."
So if they were to implement something like this a few tweaks to the basic idea. In order to not be attacked by a factional navy:
1) The individual's faction standing plus security standing must be greater than or equal to 0. faction + security >= 0 2) The individual's faction standing must be positive. faction (+) 3) The individual is not a member of an organization at war with said faction i.e. militia members get shot at regardless. It also leaves room for expansion. 4) Committing a crime in a particular faction's (exclude 0.0) space results in a standings hit with that faction, scaled to the crime and system it occurs in.
The goal of the above is to allow for the patriotic privateer. If you are pirating/stealing/being generally naughty in Caldari space, the Gallente are more likely to turn a blind eye to your criminal activities especially if you also do some legitimate work for them.
In-Game Browser : http://ldis.caldari-made.net |
lollerwaffle
Sileo In Pacis The Space P0lice
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Posted - 2009.06.03 03:32:00 -
[28]
Supported.
1. Would encourage the profession of anti-piracy. So called 'PVP corps' based in hisec would effectively be able to patrol the system for such outlaws making a stand in empire. Anything that encourages more PVP is good. 2. As the OP stated, it would have to be limited to faction standings >-5.0 or whatever the limits are. Opposing militia will still be shot, as will anyone with a bad faction standing.
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Fulmen
Failed Diplomacy
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Posted - 2009.06.04 04:15:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Fulmen on 04/06/2009 04:15:32 If suicide ganking is the biggest problem, then its also the easiest fix....
Navy doesn't spawn when you come in.....BUT if you show aggression, the navy (NOT CONCORD) spawns to defend the target. Hell, it can even provide logistics for the target/s.
Problem solved. |
Gavin Darklighter
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.06.04 12:02:00 -
[30]
Suicide ganking shouldn't be that big of a problem since the outlaw can be attacked by anyone at any time. Its not like you could just sit on a gate waiting for a target, you would get killed fairly easily since you are rocking a disposable fit and not a real pvp-setup.
signature picture exceeds the size limit.~WeatherMan |
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