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CCP, you mind taking your arm out of my colon?

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Terrus Valkin Gallente ArmoredCore Armed Forces	Posted - 2009.06.03 01:45:00 - [1] Edited by: Terrus Valkin on 03/06/2009 01:46:31 So my corp is a highsec-based exploration and PvP corp, right? Right. We love a mix of lowsec roaming, wormhole sleeper trips, and w-space ganking. Not above a good fight every now and again if the inhabitants wisen up to our intentions first. And to be honest, none of us give a damn about normal space sites, and we never have - they're an outdated and unprofitable heap of junk most of the time. But recently, CCP decided to stick its Nerf Fist (distance cousin of the Pimp Hand) deep inside the poor virginal rectum of players like me, by 'balancing' wormhole spawns. Hell, I'd call it nerfing even. Ruining is probably the best term. Whatever way I try to describe it, I can feel CCP's fingers tickling my appendix, and I don't like it. Just because we live in highsec doesn't mean we're nubcake carebears who love endless spawns of POS-filled class 1/2/3 wormholes. Which, by the way, is exactly what we're finding, IF - and that's a big IF - the gravimetric, radar, and magnetometric sites don't outnumber the wormholes 5:1 and prevent us from finding anything meaningful at all. And yet even then, even if the signature IS a wormhole, the wormholes seem to have a massive chance of not actually leading to w-space. So, say my corp is looking for class 3-5 wormholes, preferrably with no POS inside (which is omfg-rare nowadays it seems). We have to sift through the newly "balanced" levels of worthless magneto, radar, and grav sites (grav sites that pale, PALE!! in comparison to even the weakest wormhole grav site, and I'm not even a miner), all of the wormholes leading to highsec, all of the wormholes leading to classes 1 and 2, and most of the wormholes with POSs in them because their inhabitants absolutely devastate the anomalies and sigs. This actually didn't use to be a problem for some reason, maybe because wormholes of all types could spawn anywhere and did so in great abundance. I found a class 5 in Meves ones, and a class 6 in Eglennaert I believe. And so many class 3/4/5s with no POS inside! It was heaven! My corp and I loved it. It was about 2 weeks of paradise starting with the reduction in wormhole grav/ladar spawns and ending with the sudden meganerf that I seem to be witnessing. So what happened? It was great! Then all of a sudden hear come the Haunted Yards and the Terrible Ore Deposits and the Serpentis Shipwrecks, and A641s and the X702s (which are class 3s with TERRIBLE mass allowances which are almost certain to be collapsed before you get out with your fleet). Oh, and did I mention the unshakeable POSs that you can't destroy? I've even extended my search to a dozen local lowsecs and their border systems recently and I'm getting jack diddly. I found ONE class 5 that collapsed on me in Old Man Star and didn't open another lowsec/highsec entrance. 48 jump return through Catch FTL. Call me a carebear but is it wrong to want to try and take advantage of wormholes without having to actually LIVE there? Hell, I just like shipping all that loot to Jita and making a quick buck. But damn it, I just can't do that when you give me this... rubbish! For the love of god CCP, take the suck out of highsec/lowsec exploration - and even exploration in general - and give us some of the awesome back. Improve the number of wormhole spawns, link some highsec wormholes to more dangerous w-space, just reduce the ratio of normal exploration sites to wormholes, something, Jesus. I'm bored out of my damn mind waiting to find something worth running, and so is my corp. If I find another Haunted Yard I think I'm going to explode. The nerf was subtle at first sure, but I CAN'T be the only person noticing this. Am I alone? (No, you can't have my stuff) Originally posted in: Missions and Complexes. -CEO of AC-AF-
Intense Thinker Minmatar	Posted - 2009.06.03 01:52:00 - [2] Pomp FTW!!!
Terrus Valkin Gallente ArmoredCore Armed Forces	Posted - 2009.06.03 01:54:00 - [3] That is not a small violin. -CEO of AC-AF-
Jobby Minmatar UNITED STAR SYNDICATE	Posted - 2009.06.03 01:55:00 - [4] I read some of it, I'm taking a break before tackling the rest.
Intense Thinker Minmatar	Posted - 2009.06.03 01:57:00 - [5] Originally by: Terrus Valkin That is not a small violin. This one's pretty small Pomp FTW!!!
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.06.03 01:59:00 - [6] Originally by: Terrus Valkin Edited by: Terrus Valkin on 03/06/2009 01:46:31 So my corp is a highsec-based exploration and PvP corp, right? I stopped reading right there.. that's silly. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey	Posted - 2009.06.03 02:00:00 - [7] Well ok. Risk vs reward ... If you want to find better w-holes .. try looking for them in low sec / 0.0. I don't want your stuff .. its rusted from all the weeping.
Nooma K'Larr Minmatar	Posted - 2009.06.03 02:00:00 - [8] I was going to read the whole thing but my whine-o-meter just went ballistic and I couldn't finish your rant. sorry. ___________________________________________________ Idea: Train 3 alts at the same time solution.
Terrus Valkin Gallente ArmoredCore Armed Forces	Posted - 2009.06.03 02:02:00 - [9] Originally by: Intense Thinker Originally by: Terrus Valkin That is not a small violin. This one's pretty small http://3quarksdaily.blogs.com/3quarksdaily/images/scientists-discover_nanoviolin Smaller. -CEO of AC-AF-
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.06.03 02:06:00 - [10] My stats for scanning in the last week; Signatures total; 361 Wormhole Count; 214 Ladar Count; 9 Magnetometric Count; 17 Radar Count; 13 Gravimetric Count; 89 (Lol, nobody wants them) Misc/Plex; 19 (Only one of which escalated and dragged me about 30 jumps total through pirate central, aka, Genesis, but a nice 100m for killing a total of 8 ships.) Scanned Unique Systems; 47 High-sec (0.6/0.5); 21 Low-Sec (0.4-0.1); 17 Null-Sec (0.0, crappy trusec); 9 Average scanning hours; 3pm GMT - 9pm GMT. Just food for thought. ___________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008

Terrus Valkin Gallente ArmoredCore Armed Forces	Posted - 2009.06.03 02:09:00 - [11] Originally by: Blane Xero My stats for scanning in the last week; Signatures total; 361 Wormhole Count; 214 Ladar Count; 9 Magnetometric Count; 17 Radar Count; 13 Gravimetric Count; 89 (Lol, nobody wants them) Misc/Plex; 19 (Only one of which escalated and dragged me about 30 jumps total through pirate central, aka, Genesis, but a nice 100m for killing a total of 8 ships.) Scanned Unique Systems; 47 High-sec (0.6/0.5); 21 Low-Sec (0.4-0.1); 17 Null-Sec (0.0, crappy trusec); 9 Average scanning hours; 3pm GMT - 9pm GMT. Just food for thought. Results may vary. -_- -CEO of AC-AF-
Intense Thinker Minmatar	Posted - 2009.06.03 02:10:00 - [12] Originally by: Eventy One Well ok. Risk vs reward ... If you want to find better w-holes .. try looking for them in low sec / 0.0. I don't want your stuff .. its rusted from all the weeping. Billy Mays here! Are you sick of carebear tears rusting your equipment? Try my new CTR cleaner! Carebear Tear Rust will repair the damage the tears have done with a revolutionary new system of nanites that will remove the rust right before your eyes! Usually you would expect to pay over 10M isk for this type of cutting edge cleaner, but if you call in the next 30 minutes you can get it for only 999,999,999 isk! That's only 1M isk!!!!! Incidently, due to a shipping error we are also currently overstocked on Wacky Wavy Inflatable Arm Flailing Tubemen! So if you call today you will also get a free Wacky Wavy Inflatable Arm flailing Tubeman with every order of the revolutionary new CTR cleaner! Pomp FTW!!!
Terrus Valkin Gallente ArmoredCore Armed Forces	Posted - 2009.06.03 02:12:00 - [13] Considering how many replies (all of them?) are ripping on me, this thread is oddly fun. -CEO of AC-AF-
Intense Thinker Minmatar	Posted - 2009.06.03 02:12:00 - [14] Originally by: Terrus Valkin Considering how many replies (all of them?) are ripping on me, this thread is oddly fun. That's what happens when anyone detects a whine around here Pomp FTW!!!
Terrus Valkin Gallente ArmoredCore Armed Forces	Posted - 2009.06.03 02:13:00 - [15] Originally by: Intense Thinker Originally by: Terrus Valkin Considering how many replies (all of them?) are ripping on me, this thread is oddly fun. That's what happens when anyone detects a whine around here True, true. Also, I hear North Korea is an awesome place to be this time of year. -CEO of AC-AF-
Intense Thinker Minmatar	Posted - 2009.06.03 02:16:00 - [16] It will be after it becomes a giant glass bowl Pomp FTW!!!
Terrus Valkin Gallente ArmoredCore Armed Forces	Posted - 2009.06.03 02:19:00 - [17] Sounds like it'll have a nice view. -CEO of AC-AF-
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.06.03 02:22:00 - [18] Originally by: Terrus Valkin Considering how many replies (all of them?) are ripping on me, this thread is oddly fun. I just posted numbers shrug Wasn't ripping on you. If i ripped on you it would stink. Badly. I ate curry and then eggs. ___________________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Terrus Valkin Gallente ArmoredCore Armed Forces	Posted - 2009.06.03 02:26:00 - [19] The question mark is the functional equivalent of a "margin of error" measurement. -CEO of AC-AF-
PostmasterGeneral Minmatar yo i'm posting	Posted - 2009.06.03 02:39:00 - [20] came in expecting a fisting discussion left disappointed

Faife Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.06.03 02:51:00 - [21] Originally by: PostmasterGeneral came in expecting a fisting discussion left disappointed i was expecting another "why is CCP banning me for being a terrible poster in CAOD" goonswarm post i'm ok with it not being that, tbh --
Lonzo Kincaid Duty.	Posted - 2009.06.03 03:01:00 - [22] can i have the tl;dr version anyone? ---------------------- Quote: The rule of thumb is you have to outnumber them 2:1 before you even think about engaging them
Bo'Tox Amarr	Posted - 2009.06.03 03:04:00 - [23] Originally by: Blane Xero Gravimetric Count; 89 (Lol, nobody wants them) Actually, I like them... Makes a change from all the mined out asteroi dbelts.. plus the bonus ores make it even better...
Vaneshi SnowCrash	Posted - 2009.06.03 03:11:00 - [24] Whilst any wormhole type and class can spawn anywhere, I think the system is weighted so that high sec gets c1 - c3 and transit types for the most part with the others being rather rare (possibly from a fixed pool?). Of course for three days solid I found a wormhole called K162 in different systems around my normal stomping grounds which led to Minmatar high-sec, a class 1 (camped) and finally a class 3 (just me and my Drake) before it went somewhere I didn't. So just because you find the same named thing doesn't mean it's going to act the same as it did yesterday. To be quite honest most people in high-sec don't seem to be bothering with wormholes; so it's surprising you've found so many with POS's in them when comming from empire space. I've only found 1 that had people in it out of all the ones I've been in, so I think you're being unlucky.
SpaceSquirrels Caldari	Posted - 2009.06.03 03:24:00 - [25] Edited by: SpaceSquirrels on 03/06/2009 03:24:03 I see from your title, and actual substance of your post...you have an anal fascination/fetish. Freud would say you weren't properly potty trained as a child or something such as that.... to be fair to you though Freud is over rated. oh and I uh agree with most of what you're saying. _________________________ "You know how I know you're a nerd?" What the frak are you talking about? "You make it so easy"
SupaKudoRio	Posted - 2009.06.03 05:17:00 - [26] Originally by: PostmasterGeneral came in expecting a fisting discussion left disappointed -SIG- The true meaning of CCP; Completely Crap Patches. Truth.
Troye Gallente Intelligent Concepts Inc SUB ROSA ALLIANCE	Posted - 2009.06.03 05:43:00 - [27] Originally by: SupaKudoRio Originally by: PostmasterGeneral came in expecting a fisting discussion left disappointed He mentions the tickling of apendixes and virginal rectums and incorporates it into a long winded, drawn out rant, what more do you people want? _______________________________________ [a cool picture here]
Jin Nib	Posted - 2009.06.03 05:45:00 - [28] Originally by: Lonzo Kincaid can i have the tl;dr version anyone? Stuff more stuff. Wormholes are annoying cause ppl are living there. WAaaaaaiiiii... FIX IT
Auron Truthseeker	Posted - 2009.06.03 06:23:00 - [29] Ignore the trolls please, they don't have anything better to do You're right, the wormhole acces from highsec is very messed up nowadays, I've been scanning since the holes were first introduced and watched it get worse every week. I haven't made any measurements of my finds, but I think it's a good estimate that 9/10 highsec womrholes I find (usually class 1 and 2, occasionally 3) are gaurded by a pos camped by a corp. This is just another form of sovereignity, but without a way to fight it. And it causes any roaming gang for wormhole exploration a lot of difficulties in my opinion
Jin Nib	Posted - 2009.06.03 06:53:00 - [30] Originally by: Auron Truthseeker Ignore the trolls please, they don't have anything better to do You're right, the wormhole acces from highsec is very messed up nowadays, I've been scanning since the holes were first introduced and watched it get worse every week. I haven't made any measurements of my finds, but I think it's a good estimate that 9/10 highsec womrholes I find (usually class 1 and 2, occasionally 3) are gaurded by a pos camped by a corp. This is just another form of sovereignity, but without a way to fight it. And it causes any roaming gang for wormhole exploration a lot of difficulties in my opinion I don't think a way to fight it is the way to go, we already have 0.0 after all. It seems to me that their current implementation goes against the original CCP idea behind them. Which was, as far as I'm aware, to focus on unexplored uninhabited reaches and the explorers and adventures who go there. Which doesn't really work if people start building subdivisions there. Exploration was supposed to be key in the new expansion but it seems just the opposite has occured, which is a shame really. My hope was, when this started occurring in the beginning that some anomolys or something would make it impossible/not cost effective to do so.

Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.06.03 08:09:00 - [31] Edited by: Mara Rinn on 03/06/2009 08:10:42 2,500 wormhole systems, arranged in a hierarchy with many of them not having direct connections with k-space. 300,000 subscribed accounts, 20-50k of them active at any time. You do the math - even if only 1 in 10 people were interested in w-space at all, that's enough for every single unknown space system to have at least one explorer in them. Everyone looking to exploit w-space for whatever reason is going to have to face some stiff competition. Sleepers were never going to be about giving individuals their own ISK printing facilities. My recollection of the last few attempts at scanning have been finding 6 wormholes in the small cluster of three hisec systems I probe, four of them being the other side of a wormhole that someone in w-space probed out, one of them being a "virgin" w-space system, the 6th being a M555 wormhole (to "dangerous" w-space, if my memory serves correctly). The opportunities are there. Just keep looking.
Babel Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2009.06.03 11:11:00 - [32] Dear CCP, Other corps who exploit w-space are getting loots before my corp does .... Please make them goway ! /me hands OP eye lotion .... must be quite raw with all that rolling ? . "Out of the good of evil born, Came Uriel's voice of cherub scorn"
Mira O'karr Minmatar UK1 Zero	Posted - 2009.06.03 12:44:00 - [33] casual explorer here going around amarr low sec. every day i find between 2-4 wormholes leading to class 3 WHs which in turn lead to higher classes. most WHs i ve found were uninhabited. i d say 1 in 10 had a pos. whats your point again?
Jin Nib	Posted - 2009.06.03 18:45:00 - [34] Edited by: Jin Nib on 03/06/2009 18:47:13 Originally by: Mira O'karr casual explorer here going around amarr low sec. every day i find between 2-4 wormholes leading to class 3 WHs which in turn lead to higher classes. most WHs i ve found were uninhabited. i d say 1 in 10 had a pos. whats your point again? I belive, and please feel free to correct me, that the OP's point was he doesn't like... oh wait his main point was edited by weatherman. My apologies. Edit - Retraction
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey	Posted - 2009.06.03 18:52:00 - [35] Originally by: Terrus Valkin Also, Eventy, I don't know if you actually read it all - which would be a rare thing, most people haven't tried (and I admit it's massive) - but I said I've been looking in lowsec. Besides, methinks risk vs. reward is fine when highsec wormholes tend to be open to a far greater number of possible attackers than 0.0, where there are relatively low amounts of people most of the time. Granted, 0.0 wormholes are much more difficult to get to and get away from, for obvious reasons. But I'm not just arguing for better wormholes in high/lowsec, I'm hoping for a reduction in site spawns that very, very few people are actually interested in. As for the rest of you... rubber, glue, and all that. Well ok. Fair enough. You've called me on it and I confess - didn't read to the end. Good call! To respond to your post, having read to the end - I think that CCP is likely looking at the balance issue of WH distribution. I personally don't expect the current situation to stay the same, although I don't know all of the considerations that would mitigate a change. Even so, I personally don't object to the current situation - given my experience. I also don't object to making the top level W-space systems reachable indirectly or from 0.0 only. Since w-space systems can connect to one another and can be reached from Empire, I suspect you CAN get to the best systems, if you keep following the rabbit hole, but I don't have empirical evidence to prove this.
Gwailo Taipan	Posted - 2009.06.03 19:30:00 - [36] Wormholes have been out what, less than two months? Yet this sounds suspiciously like a "good ol' days" rant. The good ol' days of empty wormhole systems and wh's to anywhere from everywhere might to another observer be known as "the couple weeks, a couple weeks back, during which CCP was tweaking a new system." Can't please anyone when it comes to wormholes. First the complaints were sleepers are too hard, then it was that there weren't enough spawns to justify living in a wormhole, now it's that too many people are living in wormholes.
dethleffs Aperture Harmonics APEX Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.06.04 09:54:00 - [37] Quote: Jesus. I'm bored out of my damn mind waiting to find something worth running, and so is my corp. bolded your problem m8. Allthough i do live in Wspace, we mostly do anomalies and other sites in wormholesystems in the k-space systems our homesystem connects to. ---
Keen Fallsword	Posted - 2009.06.04 10:55:00 - [38] They nerfed WH spawning Im sure of it. CCP dont like when PPL have a good fun. They are always looking at OLD PLAYERS and only for them. We should make a protest about it. Coz WH are now more in 0.0 space ... patetic
Dueling Chainsaws Caldari ELICIT OPERATIONS INC The Last Stand	Posted - 2009.06.04 15:45:00 - [39] I'm not a whine connoisseur but this is definitely is a "Back in the day" whine. It has the subtle hint of "I can't profit from it so it is bad for everyone" and "I'm not willing to change even though the game did" with a definite "I want attention" overtone. If you want in on better wormholes go to low and null sec. I'm pretty sure that cucumbers are not a structurally sound building material for castles particularly if the base is submerged in cranberry juice.
Darado Caliensis Caldari Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2009.06.04 18:32:00 - [40] Edited by: Darado Caliensis on 04/06/2009 18:33:24 I have two extremely annoying issues with wormholes spawns bothering me for some time. The second issue below is imho is extremely frustrating and is definitely a part of game design I disagree with, and would appreciate feedback about. 1.Wormhole spawns seen to have disappeared for a time in our area of 0.0 space. For an entire two and a half week time I and alliance mates daily scanned our constellation of 12 systems and sometimes the adjoining constellation and found 0 wormholes. I finally wound up doing several wormholes in empire, as I would usually have to scan no more than 2 systems to find one there. Interestingly though, the day of the recent server crash had two wh spawns in our constellation and two more the following day. Had something happened to the spawn system, and then did it revert back recently??? In any event recent discussion of T3 price/supply/demand donÆt seem to take into account this lack of even access to w space which imho is another major factor reducing T3 resource supply. 2.I have been extremely annoyed with the wormhole despawn timers, which seem to cater only to the full time metagamers and wh pos operators. I as I suspect much of the EVE world actually have to work for a living, meaning that the little time we have each night for gaming doesnÆt allow the blocks of time necessary for wh exploration. It often takes a couple hours to scan through several systems of grav/mag/radar sites to find a wh, and then scan out the sites in the wh, leaving little time to actually do any of the sites in the system. Invariable the wh timer has despawned by the time I get home from work the following day, resulting in having to repeat this entire process. Lots and lots of (still broken) scanning and little time for plexes and mining, rinse and repeat dailyà.get the picture. I have left so many mag/radar sites untouched and even c-320 unmined as even repeatedly staying up to 1-1:30 in the morning (and feeling it at work the next day) doesnÆt allow the time to do much before the wormhole vanishes. I am not sure about wormhole spawn mechanics but recall mentions of wormholes not despawning for a few days if they are not found. To me this makes zero sense, ensuring areas that arenÆt used are full of wormholes while areas people use have rare ones which donÆt even last long enough to do much with. (reference my point number one above - ? related.) I donÆt see why allowing wormholes to exist for at least 48 hours would hurt anything, especially since there is already an alternate despawn mechanism. It sure would make my eve time more enjoyable.

Neutrino Sunset Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Quantum Star Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.05 18:53:00 - [41] I totally agree Darado. It was a typical 'let's ruin everybodies fun' move from CCP when they nerfed Deep Space Probes so that now you have to scan every single frigging signature down almost to a warpable bookmark before you can find out that it's only the 20th Rogue Drone combat site of the evening. And it was masterful how they combined that with another CCP favorite 'let's make training this skill to lvl 5 pointless now' since by making DSPs pointless the two weeks of my life(in game) that I spent training astrometrics V is two weeks I won't get back. I can't see myself spending too many more evenings scanning for wormholes if all there is to find is one POS occupied depleted class 1 wormhole and a shortcut to some other part of highsec for every 40 signatures scanned out, which is pretty much how things are at the moment. I also completely agree with your points about the despawn timers. As someone who plays Eve for a couple of hours in the evening it's difficult to see how I'm supposed to get much enjoyment out of this new content.
Iece Quaan Caldari Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2009.06.05 19:12:00 - [42] Personally, I think they intended the spawn mechanic to do pretty much what everyone wants- encourage players to move around in w-space, and not settle. Unfortunately, the logistics of wormholes basically requires you to use a pos if you're a small group of players interested in doing that sort of thing regularly. If you're interested in the occasional jaunt, yeah you can do WHs that pop up near where you live. But if you want to WH more or less full time, you're living there, and you can't do that without a pos. It's just far more practical, you can switch out mods, store stuff while you wait for a good exit, do a bit of resupply production, etc.


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