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Scottish Independance.

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hedfunk Caldari Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2009.06.09 20:11:00 - [1] I live around 10 miles from the Scottish border and obviously know alot of Scottish people and come into contact with them often, aswell as going up there often, (Gretna has a decent shopping outlet and my Father lives there). With the SNP gaining in Scottish EU elections and thier First minister being SNP, I was wondering on what people's views were on Scottish independance? I always wonder whether SNP supporters have fully thought out the consequences of complete independance? We've seemed to have had a few decent discussions on this board recently, let's keep it up
nahtoh Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2009.06.09 21:29:00 - [2] Depends really, not that you could class me as a SNP supporter in way or shape. Ir would depend on how the split is done and how badly westminster screwed Scotland on the way out and after TBH, not to mention what the policies the new ruling body enacted. ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
Dr Slaughter Minmatar Rabies Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.09 21:53:00 - [3] If they want out, fair enough. No worries. One minor thing though, everything that's currently co-owned will need buying from the other party (rest of UK) at a sensible rate (just like a divorce). Don't fancy being the accountants trying to work that out TBH and that's before I even thought about what the hell you do with RBS and co. ~~~~ There is no parody in this thread. Honest.
Whitehound	Posted - 2009.06.09 22:06:00 - [4] Why fix something that is not broken? And if it is then there lies the answer. Scotland has two faces - the Highlands and the Lowlands, and these will create a problem within Scotland itself. The Highlands are sparsely populated and not all of what makes sense for them will make sense for the Lowlands. So now and then do you see a call for independence and it may only be the result of what really may be an internal conflict. I am guessing into the blue here, because I really do not know. No one on the outside seems to be bothered.
Xtreem Gallente Knockaround Guys Inc. Exxxotic	Posted - 2009.06.09 22:36:00 - [5] Also from the last report i read, scotland costs more than it makes in public spending / taxes so there would be losses if they broke away from the rest of the UK
nahtoh Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2009.06.10 00:30:00 - [6] Originally by: Xtreem Also from the last report i read, scotland costs more than it makes in public spending / taxes so there would be losses if they broke away from the rest of the UK Depends whose sums you belive TBH...not that I am a rabid nationalst or even 50/50. Its not gonna be as bad as the doomsayers, but its not gonna be as good as the proponants make out.
Intense Thinker Minmatar	Posted - 2009.06.10 00:33:00 - [7] I live in California so this has absolutely no effect on my life whatsoever, so I say go for it!
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.10 13:29:00 - [8] Originally by: Xtreem Also from the last report i read, scotland costs more than it makes in public spending / taxes so there would be losses if they broke away from the rest of the UK I believe that that's true until you factor in the oil revenues.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.10 13:45:00 - [9] Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: Xtreem Also from the last report i read, scotland costs more than it makes in public spending / taxes so there would be losses if they broke away from the rest of the UK I believe that that's true until you factor in the oil revenues. Which are now running out...
Trustworthy Joe	Posted - 2009.06.10 15:54:00 - [10] honestly, i believe that if it got majority support, i dont see how it could be kept in the UK. nations tend to go where its people lead it
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services Novus Ordo Mundi	Posted - 2009.06.10 16:36:00 - [11] I am for one Scottish/British! IF this happened I will be **ed off to be honest. I would apply US citizenship soon as if this happens because then just to me shows the UK so **ed up in many ways. I think there more important thing's to worry about than Independence. Also If I am understand facts and costs etc Scotland would shoot them self in the foot in them long run! Trinity Corporate Services
Northern Fall Minmatar Guild Academy Guild Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.10 16:52:00 - [12] I would be annoyed, because i'd probably require a passport to visit the location of some of the last natural beauty left in the British Isles, The Scottish Highlands
Jaroslav Hasek	Posted - 2009.06.10 19:17:00 - [13] Originally by: Northern Fall I would be annoyed, because i'd probably require a passport to visit the location of some of the last natural beauty left in the British Isles, The Scottish Highlands Not likely since British people dont even need a passport to visit Eire which has been independent for almost a century.
hedfunk Caldari Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2009.06.10 22:13:00 - [14] Originally by: Northern Fall I would be annoyed, because i'd probably require a passport to visit the location of some of the last natural beauty left in the British Isles, The Scottish Highlands Hey, the Lake District is still nice! I think voters would soon get very annoyed when their cheaper prescriptions and further education etc went up due to the scottish government needing money. I can't see it being financially viable for them 20 years down the line when the last of the oil has well and truly dried up. Alex Salmond used the likes of Iceland and Ireland to show how well an independent scottish economy would be. Poor guy ;) Please refrain from political commentary in your signature. Navigator
Aricaan Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.06.11 02:32:00 - [15] At least Ranger supporters will get effed.
Don ZOLA Caldari Vale Tudo.	Posted - 2009.06.11 07:47:00 - [16] Fully support them! Go for independance!
Vaden Khale Amarr Ghost Festival	Posted - 2009.06.11 08:15:00 - [17] I have absolutely no knowledge of the political, economical, and sociological issues surrounding Scottish independence. That being said, I like bagpipes, and think it would be pretty cool.
Mistress Aranata	Posted - 2009.06.11 10:25:00 - [18] Originally by: Trustworthy Joe honestly, i believe that if it got majority support, i dont see how it could be kept in the UK. nations tend to go where its people lead it I've never met a Scot that thinks independence is a good idea. Mind you, I've never met one who claims to have voted for the SNP either. Who are all these mysterious Scots?
Poreuomai Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.06.11 10:34:00 - [19] Don't the SNP envisage independence from the UK but tighter integration with the EU? *Let My People Go*
KingsGambit Caldari Knights	Posted - 2009.06.11 10:51:00 - [20] If Scotland don't want to be part of the UK anymore, who really cares? Why am I paying for their prescriptions and students tuition fees from my taxes anyway, when the English patients and students have to pay? That aside, the argument just seems pointless. The Scots are so proud they don't want to be British any more? Just doesn't make sense to me and seems like a needless distinction. They have clan tartans, kilts and kaber tossing, haggis, scotch whisky, scotch eggs, Christopher Lambert and hopscotch, that's a lot of damn national identity. What more would independence achieve? Scotland has it's own Parliament now and gain a lot from being in the UK. Truth is I was surprised that a nationalist party managed to get in power, it doesn't speak well of the people who voted them in, in my humble opinion. I've always thought of England/Wales/Scotland as one country with different areas, like different States in the US.
Xen Gin Solar Excavations Ultd. Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.11 11:39:00 - [21] Originally by: KingsGambit If Scotland don't want to be part of the UK anymore, who really cares? Why am I paying for their prescriptions and students tuition fees from my taxes anyway, when the English patients and students have to pay? That aside, the argument just seems pointless. The Scots are so proud they don't want to be British any more? Just doesn't make sense to me and seems like a needless distinction. They have clan tartans, kilts and kaber tossing, haggis, scotch whisky, scotch eggs, Christopher Lambert and hopscotch, that's a lot of damn national identity. What more would independence achieve? Scotland has it's own Parliament now and gain a lot from being in the UK. Truth is I was surprised that a nationalist party managed to get in power, it doesn't speak well of the people who voted them in, in my humble opinion. I've always thought of England/Wales/Scotland as one country with different areas, like different States in the US. Yeah well times change. Do you really want to think that the Scots and Welsh want to be going down the Nu Labour road of diminishing Liberties? This is what 'Britain' gets for being London and England centric, and quite frankly we're sick of it.
Poreuomai Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.06.11 12:40:00 - [22] Pressed reply about 8 times to get the "Reply to Topic" page. I think a lot of people in England would like independence from Westminster right now.
Xen Gin Solar Excavations Ultd. Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.11 12:45:00 - [23] Originally by: Poreuomai Pressed reply about 8 times to get the "Reply to Topic" page. Yeah the forums seem to be trolling me too. Originally by: Poreuomai I think a lot of people in England would like independence from Westminster right now. Maybe its time for another vote on an English Regional Parliament?
Jaroslav Hasek	Posted - 2009.06.11 13:09:00 - [24] Originally by: Xen Gin Maybe its time for another vote on an English Regional Parliament? TBH I don't thik another layer of government with its own bureaucracy is what we need. Where I'm from there is already the Borough Council, County Council, Westminster and Brussels/Strasbourg. Adding another layer would add more costs, create nmore confusion over who is responsible for which areas of policy and wouldn't necessarily increase the sense of living in a democracy. For a radical shakeup I would propose the decentralisation of power - so as much responsibility as possible is delegated downwards to the most local democratic decisions making body. I would introduce term limits for MPs so you would have an end to career politicians (you know the types - straight from school to uni, enter into student politics, from graduation to working for a think tank or working as an MP's researcher to finally standing for a seat themselves without ever having lived or worked in the real world) I would change the role of an MP from that of representative to that of delegate, allowing constituents to recall their MP if a certain number wish to (10,20,30% signing a petition, something like that)
Xen Gin Solar Excavations Ultd. Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.11 13:20:00 - [25] Originally by: Jaroslav Hasek Originally by: Xen Gin Maybe its time for another vote on an English Regional Parliament? TBH I don't thik another layer of government with its own bureaucracy is what we need. Where I'm from there is already the Borough Council, County Council, Westminster and Brussels/Strasbourg. Adding another layer would add more costs, create nmore confusion over who is responsible for which areas of policy and wouldn't necessarily increase the sense of living in a democracy. For a radical shakeup I would propose the decentralisation of power - so as much responsibility as possible is delegated downwards to the most local democratic decisions making body. I would introduce term limits for MPs so you would have an end to career politicians (you know the types - straight from school to uni, enter into student politics, from graduation to working for a think tank or working as an MP's researcher to finally standing for a seat themselves without ever having lived or worked in the real world) I would change the role of an MP from that of representative to that of delegate, allowing constituents to recall their MP if a certain number wish to (10,20,30% signing a petition, something like that) Actually I was thinking of only one layer of bureaucracy, essentially scrap all MP's, then have the English vote in English MP's, the Scots stick with the MSP's and the Welsh with the AM's, then when truly British agendas need to be discussed they all go to Westminster.
Tallaran Kouros Caldari Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2009.06.11 13:25:00 - [26] Originally by: Xen Gin Actually I was thinking of only one layer of bureaucracy, essentially scrap all MP's, then have the English vote in English MP's, the Scots stick with the MSP's and the Welsh with the AM's, then when truly British agendas need to be discussed they all go to Westminster. That's near enough what happens now under devolution with only "reserved" matters like immigration and defence being handled at Westminister - your "truely British" agendas. As far as there being such a thing as "English MPs", there was indeed a vote a few years ago on regional assemblies (I think it was the north east) and they electorate voted against the proposals. I agree that there should and could be further constitutional reform, but you have to make changes that are: a) Supported by the electorate b) Actually required, and not just change for the sake of change
Xen Gin Solar Excavations Ultd. Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2009.06.11 13:32:00 - [27] Originally by: Tallaran Kouros Originally by: Xen Gin Actually I was thinking of only one layer of bureaucracy, essentially scrap all MP's, then have the English vote in English MP's, the Scots stick with the MSP's and the Welsh with the AM's, then when truly British agendas need to be discussed they all go to Westminster. That's near enough what happens now under devolution with only "reserved" matters like immigration and defence being handled at Westminister - your "truely British" agendas. As far as there being such a thing as "English MPs", there was indeed a vote a few years ago on regional assemblies (I think it was the north east) and they electorate voted against the proposals. I agree that there should and could be further constitutional reform, but you have to make changes that are: a) Supported by the electorate b) Actually required, and not just change for the sake of change Yeah, but don't forget you have Scots and Welsh MPs having a say on some of the England only matters that go on in parliament, and yes of course those two things do need to be in place for any change to work. But as the government is already talking about Constitutional reform (with a very unlikely chance they will follow through) we can always speculate and discuss.
wowtard	Posted - 2009.06.11 13:40:00 - [28] Thought Scotland won its independence... I'm guessing some important crap went down in the last 30 mins or so of Braveheart. I stopped watching after those Irish guys switched sides because obviously the war was won at that point.
Jaroslav Hasek	Posted - 2009.06.11 14:07:00 - [29] Originally by: Tallaran Kouros That's near enough what happens now under devolution with only "reserved" matters like immigration and defence being handled at Westminister - your "truely British" agendas. Sort of in the case of Scotland, not really in the case of Wales. The Scottish Parliament has a lot more power than the Welsh Assembly but neither have anywhere near the level of power of Westminster. Taxation for example is almost entirely decided at Westminster which therefore has the final say on spending. I know Scotland reintroduced free higher education and them and the Welsh abolished all NHS prescription charges but thats about the extent of it. Plus regional assemlies were rejected for good reason, they aren't what the voters wanted (certainly not in the proposed form anyway)
Tallaran Kouros Caldari Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2009.06.11 14:17:00 - [30] Originally by: Jaroslav Hasek The Scottish Parliament has a lot more power than the Welsh Assembly but neither have anywhere near the level of power of Westminster. Taxation for example is almost entirely decided at Westminster which therefore has the final say on spending. It's true that the Scottish Parliament does lacks complete fiscal autonomy, but the Scotland Act does give it the ability to vary income tax by +/- 3p in the pound. The power has never been used, but it's there. Quote: I know Scotland reintroduced free higher education and them and the Welsh abolished all NHS prescription charges but thats about the extent of it. Unfortunately I had to pay the graduate endowment as it was in force at the time :(

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