Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Emiko Luan
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium Kill It With Fire
58
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 14:47:00 -
[31] - Quote
Selinate wrote:While we're at it, can tracking disruptors disrupt drones also? Those nasty ishtars give my disruptor zealot a headache...
They do disrupt drones, you just need 5 disruptors.
I agree that tracking computers should affect missiles. It's only fair and I'm sure ccp already have this planned. It's madness otherwise... +welcome to my world+ http://venomzer0.deviantart.com |
Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
78
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 14:50:00 -
[32] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Zyress wrote:Nova Fox wrote:Ill let you in on a secret.
Tracking Distruptors are the name of the game in missile defense in real life. Anything that prevents the missile from tracking you is your (being the target most of the time) is the ultimate goal in defense. Intercpetion is secondary methood.
Then again with most missiles a near miss is still leathal and mission kill capable with those shedder rods. If proximity to the target not a direct hit was sufficient then explosion radius wouldn't matter. Erm... whar? Explosion Radius is a mechanic to simulate missiles doing reduced damage if they do not do a direct hit.
So if Explosion radius is taken ito account on every missile shot then you negate the argument that missiles always hit their target, they infact miss everytime, the smaller the signature and the greater the speed of the target the greater the miss. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3878
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 14:59:00 -
[33] - Quote
Well depends on the IRL Missiles function, Anti Air and intercept missiles mostly feature the shredder rods, Metal rods with hypertensioned coils around them so when they detonate the coils uncompressed which then shred the rods into tiney little peices in all sorts of directions. The frag the entire area in an attempt to shred or FOD (forgien object damage) engines which would mission kill any bird in the sky. None the less having one of these explode outside your airplane is much more peferrable than having one explode inside your airplane.
Most other missiles designed to hit stationaries or larger harder targets have penetrators instead so they must have a direct hit to do most of thier damage. If you can get the missile confused just enough to destroy its penetration profile or even miss the target entirely that missile gets wasted. This has always been the more effective methood of missile protection even if it involves going into the missile itself and hacking its targeting profile causing it to erronously splash early or throw in the wrong altitude. Throwing a missile to hit another missile or throwing alot of bullets to shoot down a missile has always been rather ineffective alot of the times. The US proved it, the russians overproved it, and Im pertty sure there are others who proved it the CWIS Guns are an easily defeated system considering the missiles getting shot at it are typically much more 'intelligent' than motar rounds the perferrable target of the CWIS Guns.
Which is why there is now new research to get the new packfires out which sadly work just like eve online's defender missiles.
Another thing eve online has that currently doesnt exist IRL en mass is explosion profiling. Missile reocnizes target and angle its going to be hitting at and changes the warhead explosion profile to maximise the damage, thus guided missiles which have less warhead and more fuel for long range also has more room for a bigger computer to manage that warhead. Hence precision skills working on it unlike our 'unguided' misssiles which have nothing but warhead and short fuel tank and it probably relies on the ship for target delivery only. Closest thing we have is the small diameter bomb which only has 3 explosion profiles that have to be preselected before dropping it.
Pleae forgive any generalization I used to work around this stuff and had to find public sources to ensure its okay to repost for public consumption.
|
Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
78
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 15:03:00 -
[34] - Quote
Zyress wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Zyress wrote:Nova Fox wrote:Ill let you in on a secret.
Tracking Distruptors are the name of the game in missile defense in real life. Anything that prevents the missile from tracking you is your (being the target most of the time) is the ultimate goal in defense. Intercpetion is secondary methood.
Then again with most missiles a near miss is still leathal and mission kill capable with those shedder rods. If proximity to the target not a direct hit was sufficient then explosion radius wouldn't matter. Erm... whar? Explosion Radius is a mechanic to simulate missiles doing reduced damage if they do not do a direct hit. So if Explosion radius is taken ito account on every missile shot then you negate the argument that missiles always hit their target, they infact miss everytime, the smaller the signature and the greater the speed of the target the greater the miss.
Since exposions start small and expand to their maximum size a direct hit should do full damage on any size hull and as for the velocity thing the explosion velocity should be at or close to the speed of light, with the possible exception of kinetic which may be matter, thermal, EM, and Explosixe are energy and the speed of light is 299,792,458 m/s. |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
877
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 15:06:00 -
[35] - Quote
Of course, there wouldn't be a need for TDs to affect missiles if there was already a working defensive module against missiles.
But there isn't, and CCP clearly think that this change is easier to implement than fixing Defenders.. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
995
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 15:11:00 -
[36] - Quote
It is only reasonable that TCs and TEs will affect missiles too, but knowing CCP's track record it will take another 1-2 expansions before that part is implemented.
That said, if they are on top of their game and implement those, I quake with fear at the havoc HML ships will wreak against frigates when equipped with TEs, or the extra damage HAMs and torpedos will do as a result. If TDs remain a sort of rare niche module, it may actually end up that on average missiles are buffed by this change. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
58
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 16:09:00 -
[37] - Quote
Xander Riggs wrote:Everything but F.o.F. has a guidance system. Not torps ;)
|
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
997
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 17:01:00 -
[38] - Quote
Xander Riggs wrote:Everything but F.o.F. has a guidance system. Lorewise, Rockets, HAMs and Torpedoes are unguided missiles. They can pack more payload, but they hit more poorly and at shorter ranges because of the lack of guidance. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Heinrich Rotwang
State Protectorate Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 19:36:00 -
[39] - Quote
I've been told that missiles are low but reliable DPS. Now minus reliable, all thats left is low DPS. So better give up on the whole Caldari missile path and start from scratch with some different race that can do PVP in the end?
Rules changing into the opposite on a monthly base really doesn't help getting started with this game. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
1002
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 19:47:00 -
[40] - Quote
Heinrich Rotwang wrote:I've been told that missles are low but reliable DPS. Now minus reliable, all thats left is low DPS. So better give up on the whole Caldari missile path and start from scratch with some different race that can do PVP in the end?
Rules changing into the opposite on a monthly base really doesn't help getting started with this game. You're right, now that the Drake won't be able to hit frigates at 70 km while tracking disrupted, you should switch to a battlecruiser that can hit frigates while tracking disrupted, like a.... wait. There are none.
Missiles do less "paper DPS" (the number you see in EFT/Pyfa), but range-independent, and to longer ranges than most equivalent turrets. They have the disadvantage of missile flight time delaying their damage, but they can't miss entirely. Did you know that the Harbinger, Hurricane, Brutix, or any other ship bigger than a frigate has trouble hitting frigates? They fit countermeasuers like afterburners, neuts, webs, target painters, tracking enhancers, or tracking computers to make it easier to hit. This is unfortunately what missile users will have to do now, as well.
There are no "auto-win" weapon systems. Pick one you like, then learn to use it right. "Reliable damage" is weasel words for "easy mode". I'm sorry you have to actually HTFU and learn to fly a ship for real.
Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
|
Embrace My Hate
Black Horizon.
95
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 19:48:00 -
[41] - Quote
Heinrich Rotwang wrote:I've been told that missiles are low but reliable DPS. Now minus reliable, all thats left is low DPS.
I can't help but agree. Obviously you could fit TE/TC (If they will indeed help) but thats at the expense of shield tank or BCU's which really gimps a fit. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
1004
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 19:50:00 -
[42] - Quote
Embrace My Hate wrote:Heinrich Rotwang wrote:I've been told that missiles are low but reliable DPS. Now minus reliable, all thats left is low DPS. I can't help but agree. Obviously you could fit TE/TC (If they will indeed help) but thats at the expense of shield tank or BCU's which really gimps a fit. Laser boats could fit TE/TC but that's at the expense of armor tank or limited mid slots which really gimps a fit. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Ammatar IV
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 19:52:00 -
[43] - Quote
ITT: People posting in General Discussion about how people who post in General Discussion have no lives.
|
Solhild
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
686
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 19:53:00 -
[44] - Quote
Karn Dulake wrote:Ive come to the conclusion that the people that post on the general discussion need other things to worry about in their lives
Do you want to talk about it? |
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
165
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 19:53:00 -
[45] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Embrace My Hate wrote:Heinrich Rotwang wrote:I've been told that missiles are low but reliable DPS. Now minus reliable, all thats left is low DPS. I can't help but agree. Obviously you could fit TE/TC (If they will indeed help) but thats at the expense of shield tank or BCU's which really gimps a fit. Laser boats could fit TE/TC but that's at the expense of armor tank or limited mid slots which really gimps a fit.
Amarr? All my fits are projectile. We gave up on flash light lasers a long time ago.
Welcome to winmatar online.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg-_HeVNYOk
Save Derpy! |
Heinrich Rotwang
State Protectorate Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 19:54:00 -
[46] - Quote
Embrace My Hate wrote:Heinrich Rotwang wrote:I've been told that missiles are low but reliable DPS. Now minus reliable, all thats left is low DPS. I can't help but agree. Obviously you could fit TE/TC (If they will indeed help) but thats at the expense of shield tank or BCU's which really gimps a fit.
Yes, that's what I figured the last months. On the caldari ship, you are always running out of mid slots. Guess it's balanced with only fleet fights in mind. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
1004
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 19:55:00 -
[47] - Quote
Ioci wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Embrace My Hate wrote:Heinrich Rotwang wrote:I've been told that missiles are low but reliable DPS. Now minus reliable, all thats left is low DPS. I can't help but agree. Obviously you could fit TE/TC (If they will indeed help) but thats at the expense of shield tank or BCU's which really gimps a fit. Laser boats could fit TE/TC but that's at the expense of armor tank or limited mid slots which really gimps a fit. Amarr? All my fits are projectile. We gave up on flash light lasers a long time ago. Welcome to winmatar online. I think I just spotted someone who doesn't know how optimal range works and prefers "reliable damage". Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
165
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 19:59:00 -
[48] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote: I think I just spotted someone who doesn't know how optimal range works and prefers "reliable damage".
Nice troll bait. I know full well how Optimals work and I know how blobbing works too. I also know how base damage works and I know how EVE PvP works too. All the crap about diversity goes out the window when 15 guys are locking you for alpha primary damage and Logistics can't predict next primary fast enough to matter. So you fight fire with fire and just kill stuff as fast as possible and the bigger show of brute force.
Welcome to Winmatar Online.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg-_HeVNYOk
Save Derpy! |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
150
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 20:15:00 -
[49] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Embrace My Hate wrote:Heinrich Rotwang wrote:I've been told that missiles are low but reliable DPS. Now minus reliable, all thats left is low DPS. I can't help but agree. Obviously you could fit TE/TC (If they will indeed help) but thats at the expense of shield tank or BCU's which really gimps a fit. Laser boats could fit TE/TC but that's at the expense of armor tank or limited mid slots which really gimps a fit. Laser boats could fit a TC/TE at the expense of another mod and have it help their weapon performance. Missile boats can't, regardless of what they sacrifice to fit it. Both can use webs/TP's but only turrets can stack the affects of both types of mods.
|
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
1004
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 20:17:00 -
[50] - Quote
Ioci wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote: I think I just spotted someone who doesn't know how optimal range works and prefers "reliable damage".
Nice troll bait. I know full well how Optimals work and I know how blobbing works too. I also know how base damage works and I know how EVE PvP works too. All the crap about diversity goes out the window when 15 guys are locking you for alpha primary damage and Logistics can't predict next primary fast enough to matter. So you fight fire with fire and just kill stuff as fast as possible and the bigger show of brute force. Welcome to Winmatar Online. Those 600 DPS Hurricanes sure do the same damage that 600 DPS Harbingers do at 20 km. Yep. Or, wait... you're talking about alpha now? Are you fitting arty on Harbingers, Zealots? Apocs? Abaddons? Wait no, you're talking about blobbing, where it doesn't matter what guns anyone has, just that they are all mindlessly mashing F1.
Fitting Minmatar weapons on anything and everything reeks of "I want the biggest DPS and tank numbers in EFT because more DPS and more tank means better fit." Quit posting before you make more of a fool of yourself. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
|
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
1004
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 20:24:00 -
[51] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Embrace My Hate wrote:Heinrich Rotwang wrote:I've been told that missiles are low but reliable DPS. Now minus reliable, all thats left is low DPS. I can't help but agree. Obviously you could fit TE/TC (If they will indeed help) but thats at the expense of shield tank or BCU's which really gimps a fit. Laser boats could fit TE/TC but that's at the expense of armor tank or limited mid slots which really gimps a fit. Laser boats could fit a TC/TE at the expense of another mod and have it help their weapon performance. Missile boats can't, regardless of what they sacrifice to fit it. Both can use webs/TP's but only turrets can stack the affects of both types of mods. As I said earlier, I hope CCP is smart enough to add missile bonuses to TCs/TEs. Not doing so would be really an unwarranted horrible screwing-over of missiles.
I don't disagree that TEs and TCs should affect missiles, I just disapprove of all the whining about missiles not being worth it anymore. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Metal Icarus
xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire
171
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 20:34:00 -
[52] - Quote
Defence missile webifier field that reduces incoming missile speed and explosion radius.
It would be like a smartbomb except always on.
Missiles should be treated differently than turrets, not the same. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
1004
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 20:37:00 -
[53] - Quote
Metal Icarus wrote:Defence missile webifier field that reduces incoming missile speed and explosion radius.
It would be like a smartbomb except always on.
Missiles should be treated differently than turrets, not the same. The difference between making it impossible for one enemy to shoot you and making it impossible for all enemies to shoot you is very large. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
165
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 20:40:00 -
[54] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Ioci wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote: I think I just spotted someone who doesn't know how optimal range works and prefers "reliable damage".
Nice troll bait. I know full well how Optimals work and I know how blobbing works too. I also know how base damage works and I know how EVE PvP works too. All the crap about diversity goes out the window when 15 guys are locking you for alpha primary damage and Logistics can't predict next primary fast enough to matter. So you fight fire with fire and just kill stuff as fast as possible and the bigger show of brute force. Welcome to Winmatar Online. Those 600 DPS Hurricanes sure do the same damage that 600 DPS Harbingers do at 20 km. Yep. Or, wait... you're talking about alpha now? Are you fitting arty on Harbingers, Zealots? Apocs? Abaddons? Wait no, you're talking about blobbing, where it doesn't matter what guns anyone has, just that they are all mindlessly mashing F1. Fitting Minmatar weapons on anything and everything reeks of "I want the biggest DPS and tank numbers in EFT because more DPS and more tank means better fit." Quit posting before you make more of a fool of yourself.
Corp name says it all. The 'flight of 1000 rifters' corp schooling me on how it isn't all about the blob? How it isn't all about the I-Win button?
STFU you pinhead.
Gunnery tertiary skills are the same for all three gun sets. If you max one, you max them all. I can get a 130K tanked Arti baddon to 35km Optimals with damage ammo and better tracking than any laser fit Baddon. The only two ships in the game that even fit Tachyon are a nightmare and a Paladin. Everyone uses Pulse and a Pulse Baddon will be lucky ig it can get 20km Optimals, not to mention it is now vamp vulnerable in it's dps.
it was good enough it made a fleet fit and a damn good one too.
Maybe you should stop posting otherwise make yourself look like a jackass. Or go back to preaching to the choir because the EVE ingame reality check is, MOAR DPS works.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg-_HeVNYOk
Save Derpy! |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
1004
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 21:19:00 -
[55] - Quote
It's actually around 5-10 frigates that aren't even mostly Rifters, or mostly autocannons, but that's besides the point.
I would like to point out a few things:
Ioci wrote:I can get a 130K tanked Arti baddon to 35km Optimals with damage ammo and better tracking than any laser fit Baddon
Ioci wrote:a Pulse Baddon will be lucky ig it can get 20km Optimals
Try this. 198k EHP pulse Abaddon with 48 km optimal and 3x the tracking of arty on the same hull. Without any range mods, pulse apoc reaches to 62 km optimal and does far more DPS than any arty or autocannon battleship could hope to do at that range.
Raw alpha is indeed one way to play the game, but certainly not the only way, and is only really effective in a limited set of situations. This is why arty Maelstrom is now far more popular than arty Abaddon ever was: it's not a brick and can maneuver to find said situations much better.
That is also why Minmatar, plus Drake, are good for blobbing: more flexible engagement range means you can do little damage at more ranges. 300 Maelstroms all doing 1/10 of their damage in alpha is still enough to instantly kill a battleship every 20 seconds, and requires as much effort as just pushing F1. In the meantime, 300 pulse Abaddons can alpha a battleship every 5 seconds, but they require more competent pilots and a stricter engagement envelope. Because of this they are unpopular. Not because Maelstroms or artillery are "better".
"Winmatar" as you call it is only popular because idiotic blob "PvPers" can't be bothered to learn any real PvP tactics beyond targeting something and pushing F1.
Also, I wouldn't go judging by corporation if I were you, especially since you don't even have the testicular fortitude to post with your main.
Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Heinrich Rotwang
State Protectorate Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 21:36:00 -
[56] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote: There are no "auto-win" weapon systems. Pick one you like, then learn to use it right. "Reliable damage" is weasel words for "easy mode". I'm sorry you have to actually HTFU and learn to fly a ship for real.
Well, I survived usenet and HoN. The question remains if the path I'm on leads anywhere or nowhere. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
1004
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 21:52:00 -
[57] - Quote
Heinrich Rotwang wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote: There are no "auto-win" weapon systems. Pick one you like, then learn to use it right. "Reliable damage" is weasel words for "easy mode". I'm sorry you have to actually HTFU and learn to fly a ship for real.
Well, I survived usenet and HoN. The question remains if the path I'm on leads anywhere or nowhere. Ah, I thought that was general whining about your weapon system being useless now. Missiles will still be useful, and in fact, the Drake change combined with the new graphics have convinced me to train T2 missiles sometime soon, because things are getting awesome.
So yes, if you want to train missiles, go for it. Do not listen to the doomsayers crying about how this is the end of missiles. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
165
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 22:06:00 -
[58] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:It's actually around 5-10 frigates that aren't even mostly Rifters, or mostly autocannons, but that's besides the point. I would like to point out a few things: Ioci wrote:I can get a 130K tanked Arti baddon to 35km Optimals with damage ammo and better tracking than any laser fit Baddon Ioci wrote:a Pulse Baddon will be lucky ig it can get 20km Optimals Try this. 198k EHP pulse Abaddon with 48 km optimal and 3x the tracking of arty on the same hull. Without any range mods, pulse apoc reaches to 62 km optimal and does far more DPS than any arty or autocannon battleship could hope to do at that range. Raw alpha is indeed one way to play the game, but certainly not the only way, and is only really effective in a limited set of situations. This is why arty Maelstrom is now far more popular than arty Abaddon ever was: it's not a brick and can maneuver to find said situations much better. That is also why Minmatar, plus Drake, are good for blobbing: more flexible engagement range means you can do little damage at more ranges. 300 Maelstroms all doing 1/10 of their damage in alpha is still enough to instantly kill a battleship every 20 seconds, and requires as much effort as just pushing F1. In the meantime, 300 pulse Abaddons can alpha a battleship every 5 seconds, but they require more competent pilots and a stricter engagement envelope. Because of this they are unpopular. Not because Maelstroms or artillery are "better". "Winmatar" as you call it is only popular because idiotic blob "PvPers" can't be bothered to learn any real PvP tactics beyond targeting something and pushing F1. Also, I wouldn't go judging by corporation if I were you, especially since you don't even have the testicular fortitude to post with your main.
Another bad call on your part.
- This is my main. One of 4. I left null a year ago. I have no intention of going back. - Your 48km Optimal? That's fall off. Optimal on that boat is 16km. EFT fit much? By your definition of "optimal" Arti Baddon hits out to 80km. - Speed Tank and trimark tanks work against each other. 250 m/s with the AB. Not enough to catch an AB Mini. - You have a 2 minute capacitor, then your guns are shutting down. Winmatar? They have that problem. Winmatar on an Abaddon? I have 4 free med slots.
Everything you fit, I can fit better with arti. Less powergrid, less CPU, No cap and it's designed for range. A Pulse is not. One exception, the Oracle. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg-_HeVNYOk
Save Derpy! |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
1007
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 22:27:00 -
[59] - Quote
Ioci wrote: - Your 48km Optimal? That's fall off. Optimal on that boat is 16km. EFT fit much?
What? Do you know what "optimal" and "falloff" mean?
Optimal is the range up to where guns do 100% damage, assuming tracking is not a problem. Falloff is the additional range where the damage slopes off from 100% to 50%. Optimal range depends on the ammo you have loaded. With Multifrequency ammo, that Abaddon fit has 16.1 km optimal range (as you claim) and 11.5 km falloff. I was recommending it with Scorch ammo, which gives it 48.4 km optimal range instead. For reference.
Ioci wrote: - Speed Tank and trimark tanks work against each other. 250 m/s with the AB. Not enough to catch an AB Mini.
Since when do battleships actually chase each other? Speed tank sort of works against artillery, reducing its damage by about 15-20%. Not much, but it's something. Also, a prop mod is good to have on any ship, to help with alignment. If not necessary, it can just be replaced with a Cap Recharger.
Ioci wrote: - You have a 2 minute capacitor, then your guns are shutting down. Winmatar? They have that problem. Winmatar on an Abaddon? I have 4 free med slots.
Sure, and 1/2 the DPS, and 1/4 the tracking.
Ioci wrote: Everything you fit, I can fit better with arti. Less powergrid, less CPU, No cap and it's designed for range. A Pulse is not. One exception, the Oracle.
Yeah, an arty-Abaddon fleet will beat a pulse-Abaddon fleet at 50+ km, but it's arguable whether it would or wouldn't beat a beam-Abaddon or a pulse-Apocalypse fleet.
Lasers and arty are fundamentally different. Arty has the lowest range of all long range weapons, and the lowest DPS and tracking. It, however, does not require cap to fire, and does infinite alpha damage. That makes it good for fleets that need to instantly kill targets (which is the current vogue). Beam lasers are a bit longer range than artillery, and do much, much better DPS, but they do it in small, fast volleys. That makes them better at tearing down ships that can't be simply killed in one shot (which is not a very popular way to do things right now).
Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
165
|
Posted - 2012.05.16 22:50:00 -
[60] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote: chasing rainbows
I was logged in to Test server the whole time. I was fitting and undocking, checking all stats as I went. The fit you showed was a Pulse Abaddon fit that had a 16km Optimal. Sorry, you are just plain wrong.
I will give you the credit of the Tracking. The tracking on lasers is much higher (4X for a pulse over arti) .015 over .05 but the simple truth is, you can't get Amarr ships to range and battle ready (short lived cap life - good for skirm, fail in fleet battles) and while Beams work, they still don't work as good as Arti. Optimals are different for Apoc because they have the ship bonus but Apoc never gets used and there are good reasons. No matter how you crunch the numbers, Winmatar will beat out all the other races every - single - time. Superior range, superior speed, superior volley.
I fit Arti to abaddon because I adapt. It's bad enough i am forced to give up my guns, I refuse to give up my Hulls too. If I am forced to fly all winmatar, I will simply not play EVE.
Back to missiles. Nothing will change because nobody uses large missiles in PvP now. So they won't change one bit because? They suck. TD on them makes no difference. You cant tracking disrupt what isn't there. Heavy on a Drake, it won't matter because you only TD what you lock and the point of Alpha primary isn't to mitigate the enemy, it's to kill the enemy. You won't be disrupting the tracking of anything when your tracking disrupter is in your wreck because 350 Navy Scourge hit you all at once.
Feel free to go back to chasing rainbows now. I'm done pretending any of this matters. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg-_HeVNYOk
Save Derpy! |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |