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Gedein Jeishta
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Posted - 2009.06.13 16:42:00 -
[1]
Falcon got fixed (boosted tbh) first.
Eos and arazu got issues since... i can't remember when.
Will we ever see them fixed?
If you don't know what i'm talkin'about: Eos need a different bonus, and please stop stupidly saying that it is a good one, nobody use it and we all know why; the arazu need some love aswell, range? damp strenght? another mid slot for damp? I'd like to see people discussing about it, but i already know that all i will get is flame, so, let's get it started.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2009.06.13 16:57:00 -
[2]
Honestly, damps were mostly fixed with the recent patch. It wouldn't get imbalanced by slightly longer range, but it's not bad the way it is. I wouldn't mess with neither it nor the arazu in it's entirety. Lachesis could use a hand, but not in terms of EW, but rather general design. Compared to rook and curse that is. Still not in terrible need of redesign.
Eos however is bad. Really bad. Mainly because additional levels of command ships are next to pointless. It's crap for fleets and can be replaced by better ships for small gangs. Best way to sort it would be to give it a bonus to some sort of non-offensive attribute. This could include logistics drones, ew-drones, remote repairers or anything really. We had a good discussion about it some time ago, and a very good suggestion came out of it, sadly I can't quite recall the details of it. |
Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.13 16:58:00 -
[3]
Arazu is ****in' fine. God people don't stop *****ing... |
Wideen
Warped Mining
Strip Mining Club
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Posted - 2009.06.13 17:01:00 -
[4]
Eos needs to be brought back to the way it was before, only it should be able to field fighters because now it's just not putting out enough damage!
and arazu should recover its I-win button |
Max Tux
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Posted - 2009.06.13 18:23:00 -
[5]
vs a single target an arazu is an I win button - can damp any ship to under a range it can point
recons are fine, or do u want the nerf bat to hit them all again?
as for eos.... can't comment
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
Onslaught.
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Posted - 2009.06.13 18:31:00 -
[6]
Make information mindlinks apply to points, webs and maybe nos/neuts. That IMO would fix the eos right there, giving it a really freaking awesome set of links instead of the crap ones no one uses now.
Arazu is an awesome ship, it's not amazing on its own but pair one together with a stealth bomber and you've got a wtf**** team from 50km out. |
Max Tux
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Posted - 2009.06.13 18:43:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Cambarus
Make information mindlinks apply to points, webs and maybe nos/neuts.
why would you do that? heard of skirmish warefare link - interdiction maneuvers ?
if not
Quote:
Boosts the range of the gang's propulsion jamming modules, except for Warp Disruption Field Generators.
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
Onslaught.
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Posted - 2009.06.13 18:46:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Max Tux
Originally by: Cambarus
why would you do that? heard of skirmish warefare link - interdiction maneuvers ?
if not
Quote:
Boosts the range of the gang's propulsion jamming modules, except for Warp Disruption Field Generators.
My bad, not much of a CS pilot myself and I've never flown with a minni one before :P
Still, a mindlink that increases the strength of webs/neuts would make the eos worth flying would it not? |
Max Tux
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Posted - 2009.06.13 18:57:00 -
[9]
just because you have a gal CS doens't mean you can't fit minnie gang links, the bonus means you get
( on a 3% base level - interdiction maneuvers vs sensor integrity)
without the slot 10 implant. ( but level 5's)
using the race specific ship give you 25.87% bonus.
using the wrong racial ship gives you 22.5% bonus.
i would fit the strength of ewar, range of ewar, and the range of point mods personally on an EOS. |
Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis
The Space P0lice
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Posted - 2009.06.13 20:07:00 -
[10]
Give the Gal Recons a shield tank bonus. Damps are pretty much a joke tbh. |
Noskill McCheese
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.06.13 20:42:00 -
[11]
Whoops I saw "time to fix" and thought this thread was about large projectiles. Oh well carry on.
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Max Tux
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Posted - 2009.06.13 22:53:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Artemis Rose
Give the Gal Recons a shield tank bonus. Damps are pretty much a joke tbh.
damps are fine as long as you understand their limitations, they aren't i-win buttons no, and require some thought and intelligence ( and skills)to be used correctly
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Kamina Kasai
Glittering Dust
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Posted - 2009.06.14 07:44:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Kamina Kasai on 14/06/2009 07:44:22
But why ECM is I-win button (even after nerf)?
Falcon still can turn off several ships at once.
Do not ONLY damp range of ONE ship.
And please give your advise how to fly dampener ships effectively.
With killboard proof links.
Also:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=788361 |
Fuazzole
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Posted - 2009.06.14 07:58:00 -
[14]
Eos can put out a LOT more damage than the other 3 Fleet Command Ships and if triple repper with armored warfare it will do more tank more dps and longer lasting cap then a siege-claymore with an extra mid slot utility to boot.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.14 08:37:00 -
[15]
I find it hilarious that someone can comment on the Falcon, whilst at the same time whining that the Eos sucks.
I also find it hilarous at people complaining the Arazu sucks, as if they've somehow not noticed that warp scramblers got a rather notable boost recently. |
Trovarion
Gallente
Spook Division
BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2009.06.14 09:58:00 -
[16]
just give my Eos the 125 bandwidth back. i don't care if it's ballanced or not but that's what the dronebay bonus was intended for (heavy drones) and that is why I trained for it. xP kthxbye |
Eithen Kihne
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Posted - 2009.06.14 10:25:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Fuazzole
Eos can put out a LOT more damage than the other 3 Fleet Command Ships and if triple repper with armored warfare it will do more tank more dps and longer lasting cap then a siege-claymore with an extra mid slot utility to boot.
Fail, try again.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.06.14 11:02:00 -
[18]
yes please boost as I can fly an arazu now 
and get ready to boost the eos, can almost fly it, might make me actually want to finish off the command ship training.
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Misanth
Reaper Industries
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Posted - 2009.06.14 12:53:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Marcus Druallis
Arazu is ****in' fine. God people don't stop *****ing...
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I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen. |
arbiter reformed
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.06.14 13:07:00 -
[20]
lol. arb sits in his damnation watching this thread smiling
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NoNah
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Posted - 2009.06.14 14:58:00 -
[21]
In short, fleets - Damnation and vulture both awesome. Great tank, vulture gets points for being able to regenerate hitpoints and also deal damage at those 200km, however obviously gets much less effective hitpoints and less used gang bonuses.
Small gang - Claymore awesome, deals good damage, is mobile and grants great bonuses for the rest of the gang. Gets an active tank bonus, but also won't be taking that enormous amount of incoming dps(compared to damnation and vulture) and is fast enough to decimate the incoming damage further.
Eos... fits neither of these. The bonuses are decent at best, for both fleets and small gangs. It's to slow to keep up with a roaming small gang, and the tank is to poor not to pick one of the other instead. It did deal awesome damage making it a great small gang boat, but now that even the damage is meh there's just no reason to fly it. It was way to strong solo earlier. Way to strong. Which is also why replacing the rather useless command ship bonus with something that doesn't make the ship itself that much stronger but helps the ones around it quite a bit is in order. Another example would be to lower badnwidth use of logistics drones by x% per level. |
Max Tux
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Posted - 2009.06.14 16:57:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Kamina Kasai
Edited by: Kamina Kasai on 14/06/2009 07:44:22
But why ECM is I-win button (even after nerf)?
Falcon still can turn off several ships at once.
Do not ONLY damp range of ONE ship.
ECM isn't an I-win button it allows you to temporally break a targets lock, and several ships is a very misleading number, falcon can jam two ships reasonably reliably, but any more than this is pushing the ability to keep a jam against all targets.
Don't forget that ECM is the falcons ONLY bonus unlike all 3 other races that get bonii to 2 types of ewar
So yes the arazu can only damp one target to a point where its invincible, but it can also provide scrams at 20km and points at 50km.
you need to look at the bigger picture, take the ship as a whole.
i'm not saying you should only damp one ship ( although is the best idea in some circumstances) but just comparing its abilities verses a single ship.
and posting a link to a thread with ppl also complaining doesn't make you right, i can post to threads saying ecm is now rubbish is you really want.... |
MrLobster
Clawstrawphonebeer
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Posted - 2009.06.14 17:19:00 -
[23]
Increase damp strength, but only allow 1 damp to be used on any single target. |
Misanth
Reaper Industries
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Posted - 2009.06.14 18:05:00 -
[24]
Originally by: NoNah
In short, fleets - Damnation and vulture both awesome. Great tank, vulture gets points for being able to regenerate hitpoints and also deal damage at those 200km, however obviously gets much less effective hitpoints and less used gang bonuses.
Small gang - Claymore awesome, deals good damage, is mobile and grants great bonuses for the rest of the gang. Gets an active tank bonus, but also won't be taking that enormous amount of incoming dps(compared to damnation and vulture) and is fast enough to decimate the incoming damage further.
Eos... fits neither of these. The bonuses are decent at best, for both fleets and small gangs. It's to slow to keep up with a roaming small gang, and the tank is to poor not to pick one of the other instead. It did deal awesome damage making it a great small gang boat, but now that even the damage is meh there's just no reason to fly it. It was way to strong solo earlier. Way to strong. Which is also why replacing the rather useless command ship bonus with something that doesn't make the ship itself that much stronger but helps the ones around it quite a bit is in order. Another example would be to lower badnwidth use of logistics drones by x% per level.
Agree. One thing tho, since the nos change, the Eos lost alot of it's solo power, and the bandwidth killed the damage. Even if the Eos got the ability to field five heavy/sentry again, it wouldn't have the nos it had before - which honestly was the major factor for it to be that powerful in the first place, not the drones itself.
The tank on it is fine, it's bit too weak for large fleets, and not unbreakable for medium size, but same time it isn't insane. The Astarte got crappy tank and huge damage. Sleipnir got fine tank and good damage. I.e. my point is; I can't see any reason not to give the Eos the old bandwidth again. It will have better tank than the Ishtar, yah, as well as more damage/easier to fit. But same time it won't be agile enough for roaming gangs, and too weak tank for fleets.
The most reasonable and simple thing to do with it would just be to increase the damage, and imho, the guns on it is fine. Nos nerfed = guns are used, and gunpoints on the Eos isn't ****. Boost it's dronebay. Imho.
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I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen. |
Kamina Kasai
Glittering Dust
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Posted - 2009.06.14 20:34:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Max Tux
Don't forget that ECM is the falcons ONLY bonus
ECM is effective but RSD is almost useless.
Average battleship's range will be around 15km after three perfect arazu dampeners.
It is far away from ECM effect.
Originally by: Max Tux
and posting a link to a thread with ppl also complaining doesn't make you right, i can post to threads saying ecm is now rubbish is you really want....
It is not for rightness proof.
Just whant to make more people voting :) |
Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2009.06.14 20:51:00 -
[26]
The Arazu is a decent ship. If you go and compare it to the rapier it has a stronger tackle (1 scram outpreforms 2 webs and a disruptor) that takes 1 slot instead of 3. The tackle is a little shorter range (~18km instead of 24km not overheated) but you can stick more of it on if you really want to. The rapier is a little bit faster and more agile. The arazu is a little tougher. (Both probably should shield tank.) Most of their damage comes from a 40m^3 dronebay although they can pull a little bit out of their guns.
And they both have a kinda crappy second ewar. Target painters stink. Damps phail compared to ecm. Against a solo target a range damping long pointed razu can tackle it long enough to slowly chew it to death or for help to arrive, if the arazu is faster. An interceptor can fill pretty much the exact same role at a fraction of the price and trades the ability to tackle faster targets for vulnerability to nuets.
The only reason a rapier would fit a target painter is because he was flying with stealth bombers that didn't want to fit them for themselves. Cr4ppy stealth bomber pilots. The rapier should be putting on more webs or tank.
So the arazu is a fine ship. The eos however is not. Info warfare is weak. An armor rep tank doesn't have a place in small gang warfare where it is too slow, or large scale engagments where the active rep gets alpha striked away. This is more a problem with the design philosophy and the current metagame than the actual power of the ship. The deimos has simular problems. |
Max Tux
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Posted - 2009.06.14 22:56:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Kamina Kasai
ECM is effective but RSD is almost useless.
Average battleship's range will be around 15km after three perfect arazu dampeners.
It is far away from ECM effect.
ok, so say you lock a BS down to 15km, It will stay that way as long as you have cap.
comparing it to ECM?
ECM may prevent lock, but it is chanced based, sooner or later you will miss with all 7 jammers for a cycle and then you are dead / have to warp. This is as likely to happen as being "perma-jammed" and if you listen to anyone talking about ECM this seems to happen in every fight 
you can't compare a chance based Ewar, vs a non chance based ( i know there is a better word) ewar, it just doesn't work
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NoNah
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Posted - 2009.06.14 23:15:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Max Tux
Originally by: Kamina Kasai
ECM is effective but RSD is almost useless.
Average battleship's range will be around 15km after three perfect arazu dampeners.
It is far away from ECM effect.
ok, so say you lock a BS down to 15km, It will stay that way as long as you have cap.
comparing it to ECM?
ECM may prevent lock, but it is chanced based, sooner or later you will miss with all 7 jammers for a cycle and then you are dead / have to warp. This is as likely to happen as being "perma-jammed" and if you listen to anyone talking about ECM this seems to happen in every fight
you can't compare a chance based Ewar, vs a non chance based ( i know there is a better word) ewar, it just doesn't work
Sure you can. It's just not easy. That said, don't confuse damps with some ewar that always hits. Damps get a 45km optimal, beyond that point they're chancebased, and dampening any longer range ship below those 45km is no easy task, meaning they'll need to be outside that range and be chancebased.
The problem that was with damps is mostly that a falcon with ease can cancel out any dampening ship, however no dampening ship could cancel out a falcon. It stayed true for 0km it stayed true for 249km. Now falcons still have the stronger EW, but they also have to sacrifice more of a ship to obtain it. The arazu got other uses(which in reality is their primary - damps being a secondary or tertiary task). I fear the recons havn't been as balanced as they are today in years. Possibly barring the Lachesis that doesn't quite have any articulate role.
Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 69456
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.15 06:33:00 -
[29]
Originally by: NoNah
Originally by: Max Tux
Originally by: Kamina Kasai
ECM is effective but RSD is almost useless.
Average battleship's range will be around 15km after three perfect arazu dampeners.
It is far away from ECM effect.
ok, so say you lock a BS down to 15km, It will stay that way as long as you have cap.
comparing it to ECM?
ECM may prevent lock, but it is chanced based, sooner or later you will miss with all 7 jammers for a cycle and then you are dead / have to warp. This is as likely to happen as being "perma-jammed" and if you listen to anyone talking about ECM this seems to happen in every fight
you can't compare a chance based Ewar, vs a non chance based ( i know there is a better word) ewar, it just doesn't work
Sure you can. It's just not easy. That said, don't confuse damps with some ewar that always hits. Damps get a 45km optimal, beyond that point they're chancebased, and dampening any longer range ship below those 45km is no easy task, meaning they'll need to be outside that range and be chancebased.
An Arazu with max skills and rigs gets -57.57% damping.
A ship with 110km locking range just about has enough to be over that 45km. There's not many ships on that list - the other recons, and a couple of battleships maybe. I know the Rokh will just about cope. Well, at least, until you turn a second dampener on it.
Or if you're using an Eos, that the world seems to be declaring 'fail' that's -67.66%. Meaning 140km lock range is needed.
Quote:
The problem that was with damps is mostly that a falcon with ease can cancel out any dampening ship, however no dampening ship could cancel out a falcon. It stayed true for 0km it stayed true for 249km. Now falcons still have the stronger EW, but they also have to sacrifice more of a ship to obtain it. The arazu got other uses(which in reality is their primary - damps being a secondary or tertiary task). I fear the recons havn't been as balanced as they are today in years. Possibly barring the Lachesis that doesn't quite have any articulate role.
This I agree with - Both Lachesis and Huginn have the same problem - losing out on slot count thanks to being 'split weapon', and losing out on ability to scale damage despite being the 'doing damage recon' as a result. |
Kirja
R.u.S.H.
Red Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.15 08:57:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Hiroshima Jita
The Arazu is a decent ship. If you go and compare it to the rapier it has a stronger tackle (1 scram outpreforms 2 webs and a disruptor) that takes 1 slot instead of 3. The tackle is a little shorter range (~18km instead of 24km not overheated) but you can stick more of it on if you really want to. The rapier is a little bit faster and more agile. The arazu is a little tougher. (Both probably should shield tank.) Most of their damage comes from a 40m^3 dronebay although they can pull a little bit out of their guns.
And they both have a kinda crappy second ewar. Target painters stink. Damps phail compared to ecm. Against a solo target a range damping long pointed razu can tackle it long enough to slowly chew it to death or for help to arrive, if the arazu is faster. An interceptor can fill pretty much the exact same role at a fraction of the price and trades the ability to tackle faster targets for vulnerability to nuets.
The only reason a rapier would fit a target painter is because he was flying with stealth bombers that didn't want to fit them for themselves. Cr4ppy stealth bomber pilots. The rapier should be putting on more webs or tank.
So the arazu is a fine ship. The eos however is not. Info warfare is weak. An armor rep tank doesn't have a place in small gang warfare where it is too slow, or large scale engagments where the active rep gets alpha striked away. This is more a problem with the design philosophy and the current metagame than the actual power of the ship. The deimos has simular problems.
Quoting just because it is an excellent example of quality post. We should have more of that.
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Ziester
Caldari
Echolalia.
Shangri-La.
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Posted - 2009.06.15 10:02:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Ziester on 15/06/2009 10:05:58
Edited by: Ziester on 15/06/2009 10:04:09
Quote:
ECM is effective but RSD is almost useless.
Average battleship's range will be around 15km after three perfect arazu dampeners.
It is far away from ECM effect.
WTB RSD rigs / RSD low slots strengh mods (like Sig Amplifiers).
But srsly, ECM is chance based. RSD/TD effect is permanent (ie once it's applied, you got the effect until you or the other dies).
----------
Originally by: CCP Whisper
Boo hoo. Cry some more.
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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
Revelation Space
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Posted - 2009.06.15 13:15:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Marcus Druallis
Arazu is ****in' fine. God people don't stop *****ing...
This... although it's nice to see people asking for buffs rather than nerfs
Originally by: Trovarion
just give my Eos the 125 bandwidth back. i don't care if it's ballanced or not but that's what the dronebay bonus was intended for (heavy drones) and that is why I trained for it. xP kthxbye
I'd be happy for a 125mb dronebay in exchange for only 4 turret slots...
Removed. Please keep your EVE signature related to your EVE persona and not that of a real life politician. Navigator |
Darth Felin
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Posted - 2009.06.15 14:14:00 -
[33]
Arazu is fine imho. Cloaking recons are balanced now pretty good imho. But an EOS is very bad, it has weak tank, bad damage at any range beyoud point blank and even at optimal range damage is nothing to write home about. The final nail is that EWAR links are very situational, and most of the time it is better to have other links instead.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2009.06.15 15:34:00 -
[34]
Originally by: James Lyrus
An Arazu with max skills and rigs gets -57.57% damping.
A ship with 110km locking range just about has enough to be over that 45km. There's not many ships on that list - the other recons, and a couple of battleships maybe. I know the Rokh will just about cope. Well, at least, until you turn a second dampener on it.
Or if you're using an Eos, that the world seems to be declaring 'fail' that's -67.66%. Meaning 140km lock range is needed.
Point is really more that most of the time, dampening ships will be outside of their optimal and thus be chancebased. That's not a bad thing per se, as long as the ships are not devoted to dampening ONLY, like falcons are to jamming. EVE gameplay is entirely about min/maxing and split roles such as the lachesis or arazu can be tough to fit, however as things are right now they're decent on enough roles and situations to make it a really viable ship. As are damps in general. We don't really disagree on anything but my phrasing - I guess.
And yes, I should've mentioned the Huginn, which I do however enjoy more than the lachesis anyway. I've had a lachesis sitting in the hangar for years, the only time I actually use them is when I get one for free or almost free, as I find it less than useless to have spares of it. The huginn... don't know why really.. but I like flying it. |
Kamina Kasai
Glittering Dust
|
Posted - 2009.06.15 19:40:00 -
[35]
If arazu is fine then just show me example of it use.
Tactics and killmails please.
I mean really meaningful role of this ship.
Not only "get into killmail". |
Ignatious Mei
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Posted - 2009.06.15 20:15:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Ignatious Mei on 15/06/2009 20:16:09
Originally by: Kamina Kasai
If arazu is fine then just show me example of it use.
Tactics and killmails please.
I mean really meaningful role of this ship.
Not only "get into killmail".
It seems like your kind of setting the parameters of any examples people may give you up to fail ahead of time. a 43k point is pretty useful all the time. If thats all you do (IE Not get any damage on the kill mail) that may seem like "just getting on the kill mail" but that doesn't take in to account that maybe you got the point on that held them in place because every one else was out of range.
My oppinion is that RSD's are so situational that they are pretty much not worth fitting. Some times they are good for hindering falcons.. Some times they are good if your fighting in a small gang and the enemy has one or two sniper ships that you damp. But overall they are just to situtional. That however doesnt mean that the arazu is a bad ship. I fly mine (Probably what most would consider unconventional)with a lot of sucess. What I consider success you may or may not consider sucess. I get a lot of of points on ships. I scout well for a gang. I gather intel on enemy fleets and gate camps. I also don't fit damps lol. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.06.15 20:54:00 -
[37]
Arazu excels as a small-gang scout, prober and initial tackler. 26 km scrambler and 72 km disruptor are very powerful tools. Yes, damps are a bit meh... so I fit TDs much of the time.  |
Ignatious Mei
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Posted - 2009.06.15 21:31:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Ignatious Mei on 15/06/2009 21:33:03
Originally by: Gypsio III
Arazu excels as a small-gang scout, prober and initial tackler. 26 km scrambler and 72 km disruptor are very powerful tools. Yes, damps are a bit meh... so I fit TDs much of the time.
I assume that 72km disruptor is recon 5 + a faction disruptor + Over heating? Which disruptor do you use?
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NoNah
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Posted - 2009.06.15 21:57:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Ignatious Mei
Edited by: Ignatious Mei on 15/06/2009 21:33:03
Originally by: Gypsio III
Arazu excels as a small-gang scout, prober and initial tackler. 26 km scrambler and 72 km disruptor are very powerful tools. Yes, damps are a bit meh... so I fit TDs much of the time.
I assume that 72km disruptor is recon 5 + a faction disruptor + Over heating? Which disruptor do you use?
If that's the case, a domination or republic fleet. They're the only one(barring officer) that offers the needed 30km points. Surprising he didn't include any gang links which could've boosted his figure up to 98km.
As for the killmails, I take it fleet command ships and logistics ships must be entirely useless since they won't show up on the vast majority of killmails unless they're doing just that - whoring themselves onto it.
As for the arazus ability to get on kms, they're generally either there to tackle or in the shape of a blarazu, neither should take you to much work to find a couple of. The damps are generally there to avoid lossmails rather than score killmails, and thus won't find it's way to killmails to often.
Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 53565
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
Onslaught.
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Posted - 2009.06.15 22:14:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Kamina Kasai
If arazu is fine then just show me example of it use.
Tactics and killmails please.
I mean really meaningful role of this ship.
Not only "get into killmail".
Use it the way it was meant to be used, as an untouchable tackler that keeps the target from being able to hit anything past 40km.
Pair one of these up with a stealth bomber and you've got a really badass team for taking out ratters in extremely hostile space, or hell, bring a whole whack of SBs to the party, SBs sit at a SS somewhere, arazu warps around until a target is spotted, then it decloaks, points and damps, the SBs come in and kill the target, everyone warps off and cloaks up before support arrives (and with 2-3 SBs even an abaddon wouldn't last long enough for support to show up)
Originally by: Ignatious Mei
My oppinion is that RSD's are so situational that they are pretty much not worth fitting. Some times they are good for hindering falcons.. Some times they are good if your fighting in a small gang and the enemy has one or two sniper ships that you damp. But overall they are just to situtional.
I disagree. Damps are pretty much always useful on the arazu IMO, and here's why:
If you're engaging only one or 2 enemies, having damps on the arazu means that if your fleet is set up to engage at 40km they're pretty much invincible.
If you're in a slightly larger fight, then you'll still want to damp whoever you point. Why? Because a competent pilot will know he's going down long before his ship goes boom, and will look to see if he can take out the ship(s) pointing him, since a warp out is always better than a dead ship. If he can't lock you, guess who he's not gonna kill any time soon?
If you get into the bigger fights whether or not you fit damps is pretty irrelevant. If you get primaried you're gonna die, and no shield buffer's gonna save you (or even make much of a difference in time of death TBH), so you may as well fit damps to shut down a few snipers while you're there. |
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
Digital Fury Corporation
Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.06.16 01:03:00 -
[41]
An idea I had a little while ago was to change the leaderships skills to represent the race's fighting style, so Information Warfare would become Gallente Doctrine. This opens the fleet CSes to have ganglinks that aren't pidgeonholed into one area.
For example, one Gallente gang link could give a boost to turret tracking, one to falloff, one to drone speed, one to acceleration, etc.
Caldari ones could be for shield, for e-war, for missile accuracy/speed...
Amarr would get armour ones, capacitor ones... |
Zaerlorth Maelkor
The Maverick Navy
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.16 01:18:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Cambarus
Pair one of these up with a stealth bomber and you've got a really badass team for taking out ratters in extremely hostile space, or hell, bring a whole whack of SBs to the party, SBs sit at a SS somewhere, arazu warps around until a target is spotted, then it decloaks, points and damps, the SBs come in and kill the target, everyone warps off and cloaks up before support arrives (and with 2-3 SBs even an abaddon wouldn't last long enough for support to show up)
Ratters rat with 3-4 hostiles in local? Since when?
However, you might want to consider a few things, first of all; I now have one of those annoying sigs.
second; you should probably move on to some more interesting things than reading this sig.
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
Onslaught.
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Posted - 2009.06.16 02:04:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Zaerlorth Maelkor
Originally by: Cambarus
Ratters rat with 3-4 hostiles in local? Since when?
You'd be amazed at how often I've flown in cloaky gangs where people keep ratting oblivious to inbound hostiles, happens everywhere, but if you really want easy kills prov's the place to go :P
2009.02.15 01:44:00
Victim: XXXXXXXXXX
Corp: United Amarr Templar Legion
Alliance: Fidelas Constans
Faction: NONE
Destroyed: Paladin
System: Y-MPWL
Security: 0.0
Damage Taken: 36295
Involved parties:
Name: Nikita Alterana
Security: 3.7
Corp: The-Kissaki
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Ship: Pilgrim
Weapon: Hammerhead II
Damage Done: 12678
Name: Cambarus
Security: 1.6
Corp: The Baros Syndicate
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Ship: Pilgrim
Weapon: Valkyrie II
Damage Done: 8671
Name: nemississ (laid the final blow)
Security: 0.6
Corp: The-Kissaki
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Ship: Pilgrim
Weapon: Warrior II
Damage Done: 6173
Name: Krusex
Security: 0.7
Corp: The Baros Syndicate
Alliance: NONE
Faction: NONE
Ship: Vexor
Weapon: Valkyrie I
Damage Done: 4134
Name: Sansha's Mutilator / True Power
Damage Done: 3874
yadda yadda yadda
Alternately, using a WH, having the SBs waiting inside then sending the arazu into the system the WH leads to to find targets is always an option, though I myself have never really gotten into WH roaming myself. (and let's not forget people in the WH are also exellent targets) |
Pater Peccavi
Minmatar
Cadre Assault Force
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Posted - 2009.06.16 02:20:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Max Tux
Don't forget that ECM is the falcons ONLY bonus unlike all 3 other races that get bonii to 2 types of ewar
I'd rather get 2 bonuses to one thing (lol at bonii) than 1 bonus each for 2 things, especially if one of those things is target painters (as in, 2 web bonuses. Definitely not 2 target painter bonuses...[shiver]). Think about it: Each of the falcon's EWAR modules gets two bonuses. Rapier, Arazu, Pilgrim (Curse? can't remember which is the force recon) only get 1 bonus per EWAR module.
Originally by: hi go
Let the human be very annoyed! Another person is very repugnant! |
Death Merchant
InterGalactic Corp.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2009.06.16 04:54:00 -
[45]
The arazu needs a slight tweak to RDS. Not too much as to turn it into a falcon, but enough that its noticeable to BS in closer range combat. There are however some awesome limited setups that its still very effective.
The Eos is tricky. You have to be careful not to make it what is was before, which was a super tanked ishtar. However, with info links being so garbage it doesn't really have a role. I think a total rework or change of info link bonuses would be what is needed. Or a return of "some" drone dps.
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Ignatious Mei
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Posted - 2009.06.16 05:07:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Death Merchant
The arazu needs a slight tweak to RDS. Not too much as to turn it into a falcon, but enough that its noticeable to BS in closer range combat. There are however some awesome limited setups that its still very effective.
The blaster Arazu is my new Ishtar IE the ship that I totally fell in love with. In that way I almost kind of like when nerfs happen because it causes me to take a fresh look at things and often times I find something that I didn't see before. Hence the old EvE saying about adapt or die.
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Misanth
Reaper Industries
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Posted - 2009.06.16 09:19:00 -
[47]
The Blasterazu works decently, it has a few limitations but overall it's a pretty good ship. The RSDzu however isn't, but that's more a flaw in RSD than the ship itself.
I fly the RSDzu's with probe launchers just as a tackling boat. As someone elaborated above, the RSDzu in itself is just a more expensive tackler, an interceptor can (mostly) fill that role. However, the cloak, long point, and probe launcher, warrant for the use of the RSDzu in some cases.
Either case, it's pretty absurd right now. I took out my RSDzu with 2x Inverted Signal Field Projector, 4x Phased Muon damps with targeting range scripts, and dampened Misanth that sat in another recon (130km lock range). I got him down to bit over 15km range (Signal Suppression 4) . Most of you are aware of the stacking penalty, I'm just pulling things over the tip to show how absurd it is.
With Recon 4 the Warp Scrambler II hits 16.2km, with Recon 5 that's 18km. Assuming Recon 4, then you got a space to play in between your max range tackle, and lock range of your target, that is 1 (one) kilometer. One. As I said, I pull it to the extreme to show the absurdity. Obviously with Recon 5, faction scrambler and facing a ship with <100km lock range, it's a different situation. But ideally in those setups, I'd prefer an AB over the MWD - to a) not gimp my own cap, and b) be faster than my target, assuming he has higher base speed and/or AB fitted when I tackle him. And we all know how sexy the AB is in 0.0.. 
I.e. in theory, the RSDzu is working, but it's major flaw is the crappy damps. If the damps would be doubled in efficiency on the Arazu/Lach, it might just make them worth using.
TL;DR - Arazu is a great ship, well worth using, purely for the cloak/long tackle range. Damps, is another story. So is the Eos. I fail to see how the 125m3 dronebay would be too much on it, as I posted before. The tank isn't extreme on it, it's not very agile, nos has been fixed ages ago, and hell even drop one of the gun points on it if it's necessary.
The information warfare links is just the same as the RSD - a flaw in the module itself, thanks to how players play the game. They are decent in themselves, but not suitable for the gameplay right now. But say, even if the info warfare links would be something desireable; the Eos would still be a not very agile, somewhat squishy (in comparison to other CS'), ship. Without any serious damage potential (especially outside point blank). |
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