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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Einear Lightfingers
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Posted - 2009.07.16 03:06:00 -
[361]
Edited by: Einear Lightfingers on 16/07/2009 03:08:03
Originally by: Vertinox
Originally by: azalea anastasia
Originally by: Buyerr scamming is destroying eve and have done for a long time. move on and throw the game out the window
Uhm no it's actually making eve THE game out there :)
It does make the game lively but I think the biggest issue is that there is no tools for transparency in Eve.
If a corporation could truthfully display their holdings, money, and number of members on their information page, that would be a start.
If shares could be bought and sold out in the open rather than behind close doors.
If money could be tracked so that a player who scam could have his money tracked down to alts and have the ability to have kill rights on them.
Of course that would lead to money laundering techniques and "can flipping" newbies by giving them "dirty money".
Overall I think CCP could add more dymanics to make scamming more interesting but also more dangerous.
Yes, but by adding the new code for the laundry something else would be taken out in the wash... Another can of worms opened on how invention got broken with this patch or that patch... Needless to say it is the standard developer bug. Add functionality break something else. Not to be a complete party pooper, I do agree that the visibility would be good and some form of real market for stock would also be a plus. However, there are more important things like correcting fleet battle lags for the meat heads who don't have the social skills to dabble in the Market but have the grand old time throwing the "I told you so...". Go back to your warring low down s c u m sucking bottom dwellers. (Thank you Duke Nukem...) [Edit: Who would have guessed that s c u m was going to get nixed by the vocabulary police...]
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Enihcam Xes
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Posted - 2009.07.16 20:11:00 -
[362]
The writing on the wall was pretty clear for DBANK. A lot of the people I talked to started withdrawing the bulk of their isk around march following some pretty weak reports. I think that without Xabier draining so much away from DBANK it would still be going strong today, though.
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KaarBaak
Minmatar Squirrel Team
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Posted - 2009.07.17 01:33:00 -
[363]
Originally by: Enihcam Xes The writing on the wall was pretty clear for DBANK. A lot of the people I talked to started withdrawing the bulk of their isk around march following some pretty weak reports. I think that without Xabier draining so much away from DBANK it would still be going strong today, though.
I'm not sure if you're joking or not? The failure of Dbank didn't have anything to do with solvency (did you read the thread?)
KB
Beware the beast Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport or lust or greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. |
Enihcam Xes
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Posted - 2009.07.17 03:15:00 -
[364]
Originally by: KaarBaak
Originally by: Enihcam Xes The writing on the wall was pretty clear for DBANK. A lot of the people I talked to started withdrawing the bulk of their isk around march following some pretty weak reports. I think that without Xabier draining so much away from DBANK it would still be going strong today, though.
I'm not sure if you're joking or not? The failure of Dbank didn't have anything to do with solvency (did you read the thread?)
DBank moved the majority of their funds into one account following Xabier. It's not solvency, it's absence.
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Salpad
Caldari Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2009.07.17 12:48:00 -
[365]
Originally by: KaarBaak
I'm not sure if you're joking or not? The failure of Dbank didn't have anything to do with solvency (did you read the thread?)
I did start withdrawing my ISK, not after Xabier, but after the interest rate on 4-month CDs were lowered. Sadly, I only managed to withdraw around 1/3 of my ISK (since I waited for running CDs to expire), but it is quite possible that I'm not the only one who stopped being willing to risk my ISK on a one-man operation when the rates were lowered.
-- Salpad |
manasi
Caldari Ceptacemia Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.07.17 20:42:00 -
[366]
I just wish that whatever account all the $ is tied up in could be accessed and the remaining deposits redistributed to those that had deposits. Hell keep the damned interest..even if all got back something it would go a long way towards understanding why no one ( aside from the auditor who does have the account) has explained why the main guy bailed.
Am I expecting anything back? I'm no that idealistic. Do I need the $ now? No. Would I at least like an explanation of if the main guy perished or just quit? Yes.
Those trolling this thread plz don't put ricdic in with this bank...he was with someone else.
Come visit me at http://amuleineve.net I do not bite and value comments! |
Convexing
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Posted - 2009.07.17 22:15:00 -
[367]
I really feel stupid having invested in a "player run bank". I had multiple CD's going and this little DBank fiasco has cost me around seven to eight Billion ISK. It's not like I knew it couldn't or wouldn't happen, but until it does you really don't know how much it would **** you off! Although it's only a percentage of my assets, I am taking a break from EvE and playing a different MMORPG for a while. I've also removed all my ISK from another bank as I completely have lost faith in anything player run. In the end, either greed or incompetency with get you.
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Cobalt Sixty
Caldari Piezochem
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Posted - 2009.07.18 01:28:00 -
[368]
Originally by: Convexing I really feel stupid having invested in a "player run bank". I had multiple CD's going and this little DBank fiasco has cost me around seven to eight Billion ISK. It's not like I knew it couldn't or wouldn't happen, but until it does you really don't know how much it would **** you off! Although it's only a percentage of my assets, I am taking a break from EvE and playing a different MMORPG for a while. I've also removed all my ISK from another bank as I completely have lost faith in anything player run. In the end, either greed or incompetency with get you.
It sounds as though you were only "got" by your own incompetency when you happily sent away your ISK in a game system which provides no practical mechanism for enforcing the return of it.
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Buyerr
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Posted - 2009.07.20 12:37:00 -
[369]
Originally by: Cobalt Sixty Edited by: Cobalt Sixty on 18/07/2009 01:57:02
Originally by: Convexing I really feel stupid having invested in a "player run bank". I had multiple CD's going and this little DBank fiasco has cost me around seven to eight Billion ISK. It's not like I knew it couldn't or wouldn't happen, but until it does you really don't know how much it would **** you off! Although it's only a percentage of my assets, I am taking a break from EvE and playing a different MMORPG for a while. I've also removed all my ISK from another bank as I completely have lost faith in anything player run. In the end, either greed or incompetency with get you.
It sounds as though you were only "got" by your own incompetency when you happily sent away your ISK in a game system which provides no practical mechanism for enforcing the return of it.
EDIT: Not that I mean the above as a flame, I'm just making the observation that if you're feeling stupid now (even though you say you were aware your ISK may not be returned) then you were clearly unprepared to make that kind of investment, in hindsight.
and you don't see this as a problem?
normally in real life when something similar happens you have a law which protects you from such scams/incompetence..
eve's extremely free playground, but totally lack of the abillity to set in consequence have killed the game and the only once left is the die hard fans which will always be there no matter what.. I declare war on stupidity |
Buyerr
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Posted - 2009.07.20 12:41:00 -
[370]
Originally by: Einear Lightfingers Edited by: Einear Lightfingers on 16/07/2009 03:08:03
Originally by: Vertinox
Originally by: azalea anastasia
Originally by: Buyerr scamming is destroying eve and have done for a long time. move on and throw the game out the window
Uhm no it's actually making eve THE game out there :)
It does make the game lively but I think the biggest issue is that there is no tools for transparency in Eve.
If a corporation could truthfully display their holdings, money, and number of members on their information page, that would be a start.
If shares could be bought and sold out in the open rather than behind close doors.
If money could be tracked so that a player who scam could have his money tracked down to alts and have the ability to have kill rights on them.
Of course that would lead to money laundering techniques and "can flipping" newbies by giving them "dirty money".
Overall I think CCP could add more dymanics to make scamming more interesting but also more dangerous.
Yes, but by adding the new code for the laundry something else would be taken out in the wash... Another can of worms opened on how invention got broken with this patch or that patch... Needless to say it is the standard developer bug. Add functionality break something else. Not to be a complete party pooper, I do agree that the visibility would be good and some form of real market for stock would also be a plus. However, there are more important things like correcting fleet battle lags for the meat heads who don't have the social skills to dabble in the Market but have the grand old time throwing the "I told you so...". Go back to your warring low down s c u m sucking bottom dwellers. (Thank you Duke Nukem...) [Edit: Who would have guessed that s c u m was going to get nixed by the vocabulary police...]
there is a reason scamming is illegal irl and a reason it have some of the highest penalties (not accounting killing etc. which in this game doesnt exist since you cant actually die) I declare war on stupidity |
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Dzil
Caldari StrwBerry Pancakes
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Posted - 2009.07.20 15:13:00 -
[371]
Originally by: Buyerr
and you don't see this as a problem?
normally in real life when something similar happens you have a law which protects you from such scams/incompetence..
eve's extremely free playground, but totally lack of the abillity to set in consequence have killed the game and the only once left is the die hard fans which will always be there no matter what..
Care to put forward what kinds of consequences you think you should be able to set? I'd argue anything you can come up with will either be so easy to dodge it's not worth implementing, or so harsh it should remain reserved only for EULA type violations (IE striking down alts/other accounts for your character's actions).
---------------------- Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m for 7+ standings ---------------------- |
Salpad
Caldari Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2009.07.20 15:57:00 -
[372]
Podkill only bounties?
Of course, those can still be dodged if the scammer transfers the ISK to an unknown alt and then never undocks the fist character again.
-- Salpad |
northwesten
Amarr Trinity Corporate Services Novus Ordo Mundi
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Posted - 2009.07.20 16:26:00 -
[373]
Originally by: Buyerr
and you don't see this as a problem?
normally in real life when something similar happens you have a law which protects you from such scams/incompetence..
when you bring RL to EVE means fail! It's a big risk but people are so worried about this then don't invest.
Trinity Corporate Services |
Dzil
Caldari StrwBerry Pancakes
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Posted - 2009.07.20 16:31:00 -
[374]
Originally by: Salpad Podkill only bounties?
Of course, those can still be dodged if the scammer transfers the ISK to an unknown alt and then never undocks the fist character again.
Bounties have been a long time fail in EVE due to the simple fact that once the bounty > the actual cost of dying (implants + new clone + inconvenience), the player can simply get an alt, friend, corp mate or chap in local to execute him and claim the bounty.
---------------------- Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m for 7+ standings ---------------------- |
Dzil
Caldari StrwBerry Pancakes
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Posted - 2009.07.20 16:39:00 -
[375]
Originally by: northwesten
Originally by: Buyerr
and you don't see this as a problem?
normally in real life when something similar happens you have a law which protects you from such scams/incompetence..
when you bring RL to EVE means fail! It's a big risk but people are so worried about this then don't invest.
Precisely. There is a small bit of law in EVE, at least in Empire controlled space: if someone steals from you, you have 15 minutes to kill them, after that your time to pursue justice expires. Since you can simply roll into a station and hide out for those fifteen minutes, implementing the same for stealing in an IPO would be meaningless.
In 0.0 space, players can establish whatever kind of law they feel like: so if you steal from your alliance they can set you to red and blow you away every time you undock. Perhaps where this leads is that banks backed by the guarantee of empire dwelling station spinners should be assumed less secure than those backed by a 0.0 territorial owner, which has real assets and space which can be tapped if the loan defaults. (And for the record, I speak from the POV of the empire dwelling station spinner, for the most part).
---------------------- Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m for 7+ standings ---------------------- |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.07.20 17:02:00 -
[376]
Imposed fines the transfer with characters, corporations, alliances and can induce levies on transaction, contracts, rewards, transfers, etc..
Set them up so they can be done like any other contract |
Dzil
Caldari StrwBerry Pancakes
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Posted - 2009.07.20 17:32:00 -
[377]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Imposed fines the transfer with characters, corporations, alliances and can induce levies on transaction, contracts, rewards, transfers, etc..
Set them up so they can be done like any other contract
Getting warmer... with enough financial holds in place maybe the original character could become worthless as a consequence for scamming. Thereby one could borrow a certain amount of isk with their character as equity. We would still have characters scam and reprocessed, but at least you wouldn't have that same character continue to station trade and .01 isk war with you pouring salt in the wound.
Of course, such binding contracts would be open to griefing. We saw with freeform contracts people idiotically giving away billions of isk. An in game mechanic that could permanently trash your character (being obligated to pay out billions/trillions of isk you don't have) would be even more highly abusable.
---------------------- Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m for 7+ standings ---------------------- |
Salpad
Caldari Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2009.07.20 20:55:00 -
[378]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Imposed fines the transfer with characters, corporations, alliances and can induce levies on transaction, contracts, rewards, transfers, etc..
Set them up so they can be done like any other contract
I want to be free to transfer billions of ISK between my alts, on an as-needed basis, as long as those ISK were gained through honest and decent means.
-- Salpad |
Havohej
Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2009.07.20 21:55:00 -
[379]
Originally by: Buyerr and you don't see this as a problem?
normally in real life when something similar happens you have a law which protects you from such scams/incompetence..
eve's extremely free playground, but totally lack of the abillity to set in consequence have killed the game and the only once left is the die hard fans which will always be there no matter what..
I find your signature text to be extremely ironic.
"You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
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Jotobar
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Posted - 2009.07.21 02:47:00 -
[380]
first
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Dzil
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.21 03:51:00 -
[381]
Originally by: Jotobar
first Three hundred eightieth
Fixed.
---------------------- Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m for 7+ standings ---------------------- |
Tyranus vonCarstein
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Posted - 2009.07.29 17:25:00 -
[382]
Bump? Anyways... the website is back up... Resume conversation anyone?
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.07.29 17:56:00 -
[383]
Originally by: Salpad
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Imposed fines the transfer with characters, corporations, alliances and can induce levies on transaction, contracts, rewards, transfers, etc..
Set them up so they can be done like any other contract
I want to be free to transfer billions of ISK between my alts, on an as-needed basis, as long as those ISK were gained through honest and decent means.
In the interest of possibly spurring conversation about it, what I was referring to is renegotiated contracts for term lengths which allow automatic enforcement of fees, etc...
It has its uses beyond what we may initially think though. Say I am working for a corporation as a middle man. Instead of having to join that corporation, being forced to suffer through the issue of security, wallet access, etc.. They could just contract their entire lot up to me with the caveat being that for a period of 1 month they get X% of all sales. |
Dawts
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.07.29 20:57:00 -
[384]
Originally by: Tyranus vonCarstein Bump? Anyways... the website is back up... Resume conversation anyone?
Website may be up, but I tried to login, and database is still down. There will be no news at 11
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Salpad
Caldari Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2009.07.30 00:53:00 -
[385]
Originally by: Dawts
Website may be up, but I tried to login, and database is still down. There will be no news at 11
I tried the password recovery thing. No record of my email address or account name, as far as accounts is concerned. I could recover my password to the forum, though.
-- Salpad |
Daphne Eveningstar
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Posted - 2009.08.05 18:02:00 -
[386]
any updates here?
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Lecherito
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Posted - 2009.08.05 18:21:00 -
[387]
Like the above poster, I too lost about 4 billion ISK in the Dbank failure. Again, a smallish % of my total NAV, but even so, that amount of ISK could have resulted in a free year worth of playtime. I reckon I came into my money much faster than I should have, and by my reasoning at the time, if *anything* was to be safe in EvE, it was a żbankż.
I use the word with quotes because a żbankżis really just shorthand for for a massive IPO with an extremely low rate of interest. Other than that, they¦re no different from any of the skanky IPOs you see on the MD day after day. Nor are they any more secure, as is evidenced by the tardic scandal or Dbank failure. That realization killed a lot of the magic of Eve, for me, as did the realization that I¦ll never trust another play run venture ever again.
There¦s a new bank coming onto the scene now, offering a truly impressive 1.5% non-compounding rate of interest, touting itself as one of the *safest* places to invest your ISK. How can anyone take that leap of faith considering what happened to Dbank and Ebank? Statistically speaking, it¦s just silly to do so.
-L
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Mme Pinkerton
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.08.05 18:22:00 -
[388]
Originally by: Daphne Eveningstar any updates here?
Manalapan posted yesterday on the DBANK forums. (I don't want to cross-post, he just said rebuilding the database is harder than expected and that he intends to have enough liquidity on hand to cover more or less all deposits when reopening.)
" Credit is the economic judgement on the morality of a man. " |
Mme Pinkerton
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.08.05 18:33:00 -
[389]
Originally by: Lecherito I use the word with quotes because a żbankż is really just shorthand for for a massive IPO with an extremely low rate of interest.
Technically speaking this statement is just wrong - however, you could compare the in-game banks to mutual funds (if you want to stress the lack of enforceable regulation).
Originally by: Merriam-Webster bank [...] an establishment for the custody, loan, exchange, or issue of money, for the extension of credit, and for facilitating the transmission of funds
Apparently even IRL the (language, not legal) definition of "bank" does not imply any securities/regulations.
" Credit is the economic judgement on the morality of a man. " |
Roguehalo
Caldari RH Ship Brokers
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Posted - 2009.08.05 18:41:00 -
[390]
This was posted by Manalapan on Dbank forums yesterday(4th August) and I'm reposting it here as the link given above doesn't work unless you are registered on Dbanks website.
"Alright just keeping you guys informed rebuilding the database is proving significantly more difficult than originally anticipated (a brief period of time where I have minimal withdrawal history) we are slowly getting the information we need back from all the various API records I have. After I get the database up I will start working on rebuilding the team and ensuring that we have the liquid cash on hand to cover most all the ISK in the bank"
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