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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.10 15:30:00 -
[151]
 Originally by: Sophie Daigneau
Edited by: Sophie Daigneau on 10/11/2009 14:56:41
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
I'm trying to get a feel for what the attitude is among the investors on this
Well, even if minimal I did invest in this. But even if I did not, I'd still suggest to pass thru the hassle of liquidating investors, because it's true you are in the unique capitals market (as you say) but you are also in the unique situation of being in an alliance whose fame is not totally rosy. Investors seeing their money kept could start thinking the wildest things and this would be bad PR for your future endeavours.
Seriously? At this point I've paid out all interest payments on time, and have done absolutely nothing to violate investor trust. You got nothing and are just trolling for a reaction.
edit: You're almost as bad as Kalrand, not quite, but keep it up and maybe you'll pass him.
You know, Karttoon is a big fan of VV.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.10 15:44:00 -
[152]
Listen:
I don't give a flying phuk that you are in your alliance.
At the same time, I got put in my alliance where I know less people than I know in my supposed "enemies" (GS and Brick Squad, actually most of my day 1 friends are now blinky without anyone of us breaking a sweat).
The objections I state come from having assisted a good dozen of people create their investment and where I had to interpret the average MD investor feelings to make my clients present something viable and that would be accepted.
It's not my fault that whatever you'll do, it will always carry a dead weight without your fault but because of how your members unpopular policies.
If you don't share my observations, feel free to, but it's not trolling and it's also legitimate because you asked for feedback and I also put money in it.
-
Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and
http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2009.11.10 15:53:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Sophie Daigneau
Chapter 9 - Bond Closing Details
The bond will run for six months from issue. After that time I will either repay all investors, or refinance the terms for a longer period. If I chose not to refinance, isk will be repaid to investors, and upon confirmation, Chribba will unlock the blueprints for me.
It is not unusual to continue a bond or as you quote in your OP to refinance.
The best way to do this is to make an offer to investors like I have done before.
Give people the choice to either:
1. Be paid back
2. Roll over for a further 6 months and continue paying the bond interest
3. You can then re-sell the shares from people who got out.
Whatever happens you must allow the bondholders their choice on an individual basis NOT a vote.
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Sophie Daigneau
CAPITAL Assistance in Destruction Society
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.10 15:59:00 -
[154]
Edited by: Sophie Daigneau on 10/11/2009 15:59:19
Originally by: cosmoray
Originally by: Sophie Daigneau
Chapter 9 - Bond Closing Details
The bond will run for six months from issue. After that time I will either repay all investors, or refinance the terms for a longer period. If I chose not to refinance, isk will be repaid to investors, and upon confirmation, Chribba will unlock the blueprints for me.
It is not unusual to continue a bond or as you quote in your OP to refinance.
The best way to do this is to make an offer to investors like I have done before.
Give people the choice to either:
1. Be paid back
2. Roll over for a further 6 months and continue paying the bond interest
3. You can then re-sell the shares from people who got out.
Whatever happens you must allow the bondholders their choice on an individual basis NOT a vote.
Regardless of what gets decided, ANY individual who wishes their money returned at the end of the 6 months WILL have their money returned in one way or another. I guess what I'm trying to determine here is if it'd be easier to do that on a one-off basis, or if there'd be a large enough group not wanting to refinance to just pay it all out as a lump sum dividend and re-sell new shares. Reselling shares comes with a lot of administrative hassle compared to just extending interest payments further, which is what I'd like to avoid if possible. Again, any individual wanting to be repaid will be.
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cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2009.11.10 16:03:00 -
[155]
Put up a notice on here that your wish is to continue the bond for 6 months, and that shareholders should advise of what they wish to do.
See what feedback you get.
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Sophie Daigneau
CAPITAL Assistance in Destruction Society
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.10 16:05:00 -
[156]
VV: Maybe you're not making your point clear, or maybe I'm misreading you, but all I'm hearing is "Goons are scammers, therefore everything should be repaid." This doesn't really make sense from a rational investors point of view because their reputation was terrible 6 months ago, and it doesn't take the great carnack to see it'll still be bad 6 months from now. The folks who originally invested knew that, and they either want to keep receiving interest payments, or they don't. Goons being scammers now, then, or in the future probably doesn't factor into that.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.10 16:46:00 -
[157]
Quote:
VV: Maybe you're not making your point clear, or maybe I'm misreading you, but all I'm hearing is "Goons are scammers, therefore everything should be repaid."
It's the latter. All I wanted to say is that to remove any possible reason of doubt and to close with fireworks and cheers - even if it's a burden - you should have taken the opposite stance, that is to propose to repay, close and reopen after Dominion.
-
Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and
http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Kitchie
Gallente
Vikramaditya
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Posted - 2009.11.10 16:48:00 -
[158]
I have 1 Billion invested and have been very happy with the prompt and efficient dividend payments.
If Sophie ganked my Hulk, Freighter or POS, I would not be upset, that's what goons do and why we hate them but that is not a scam.
I have read Sophie's posts from long before this offering and while taken within the "Goon" framework, feel that if she gives her pledge, then I would trust it. Also, not to be forgotten, this issue is also collateralised, so the risk should be minimal.
I'm happy with the interest, not concerned about the risk and do not require the initial invested capital - I am therefore happy to go along with whatever she wants to do.
Dominion prediction is not only affecting the Cap ship market but also T2 materials, moon goo and a ton of others. Most of the big wheeler/dealers will be affected by it in some way or another but until it comes, we just don't know how......
My vote: Go ahead with whatever, Sophie.
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Sophie Daigneau
CAPITAL Assistance in Destruction Society
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.10 17:32:00 -
[159]
There's one more big issue with me repaying. If I repay then relaunch a new bond in the future, the existing bondholders would have no promise of getting in on that next venture.
I'll let some open discussion continue here today, then later tonight post a non-binding corporate vote to get a little more attention from people who may not read the forum, and also to give me a survey of what actual investors think.
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Mephistocles
Red Frog Investments
Blue Sky Consortium
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Posted - 2009.11.10 17:33:00 -
[160]
I've been more than pleased with the way this bond has been run and the promptness of all payments. But, at this time I'm looking to shrink my percentage of investments and would like to abide by the original bond time frame.
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Yarinor
Lone Star Joint Venture
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.10 17:50:00 -
[161]
I have a suggestion for a solution, liquidate so you can pay back any investor wishing to get out after the last payment.
Spend the next month taking reservations on the returned shares
Pay first dividend on the extended bond.
Distribute shares to new investors.
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Dretzle Omega
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.11.10 18:11:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Sophie Daigneau
Regardless of what gets decided, ANY individual who wishes their money returned at the end of the 6 months WILL have their money returned in one way or another. I guess what I'm trying to determine here is if it'd be easier to do that on a one-off basis, or if there'd be a large enough group not wanting to refinance to just pay it all out as a lump sum dividend and re-sell new shares. Reselling shares comes with a lot of administrative hassle compared to just extending interest payments further, which is what I'd like to avoid if possible. Again, any individual wanting to be repaid will be.
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
you should have taken the opposite stance, that is to propose to repay, close and reopen after Dominion.
As I read it, that's exactly what she proposed. Any individual can get their money and get out. If enough wish to do this, it sounds like she plans on just completely closing out.
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Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.11.10 18:54:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Sophie Daigneau
The 5%/month rate would continue.
Oh, do continue in that case. 
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Mr Bussy
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Posted - 2009.11.11 12:34:00 -
[164]
I personally prefer being paid back at the end of 6 months period. Thank you.
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MailDeadDrop
The Collective
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Posted - 2009.11.11 15:56:00 -
[165]
I have no personal preference.
However, in the interest of polishing your reputation, I would suggest closing the bond offering as scheduled. If you do, there's no reasonable way for any future troll to claim "she's unreliable -- she doesn't do what she says she will."
MDD
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Cpt Steo
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:39:00 -
[166]
I am happy with my investment... everything has been on time and above board.
If you wish to close thats fine... if you wish to continue I am happy to do so.
Regards Steo
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Sophie Daigneau
CAPITAL Assistance in Destruction Society
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:56:00 -
[167]
Thanks to CCP I just lost about 20b from the MS change. That shouldn't affect this too much, but shouldn't affect this too much.
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LJB
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Posted - 2009.11.14 01:04:00 -
[168]
Hi There,
Although i have been happy thus far, id prefer repayment at the end of the 6 months please.
Thanks
LJB
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Sophie Daigneau
CAPITAL Assistance in Destruction Society
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.14 01:12:00 -
[169]
It looks anecdotally that there's enough folks to just warrent a full repayment, which works out well since if I do remain in business, I'm considering shifting my production to another system anyways and would need to unlock everything before locking it back down again. There's an in-game vote running for another day or so just to confirm my suspicion though.
For those who wanted to continue anyways, at this hour I'm leaning towards staying in business, but that changes with every post from CCP. If I repay and stay in business, I'll be back with a bigger bond shortly after repaying this one.
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Kapila Parthalan
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Posted - 2009.11.14 01:57:00 -
[170]
If the bond continues, I would be happy to continue my investment. I would also be interested in buying some shares from other investors.
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Cathra Dekiernau
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Posted - 2009.11.15 18:11:00 -
[171]
While I'm happy with the venture so far (payments have been on time and of the size promised), I'd prefer to be repaid at the end of the 6-month period.
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Kasheem Cetanes
Optimus Crime.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.16 01:59:00 -
[172]
I am very happy with this this bond so far. I would love to continue. I gave you a billion isk to generate me some passive income and you have done awesome. I'll continue investing with you as long as you'll have me XD
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Sophie Daigneau
CAPITAL Assistance in Destruction Society
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.16 14:50:00 -
[173]
As expected, the vote was to repay everything in full on Dec 15th. I will very likely be putting together another bond to replace this one in the next few weeks. Details on that will be coming later.
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Skarii TuThess
Lansez Innovations
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Posted - 2009.11.25 20:07:00 -
[174]
Sophie, would you please give first call on any future bond to existing investors?
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Marcus Baltar
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Posted - 2009.11.26 10:29:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Sophie Daigneau
As expected, the vote was to repay everything in full on Dec 15th. I will very likely be putting together another bond to replace this one in the next few weeks. Details on that will be coming later.
I would be more than happy to continue my investment, but if you are closing up and relaunching, I would like to (prematurely) reserve at least a billion ISK in the the new scheme (pending being alive/cash/audit/the world not ending, etc.).
Thanks.
--
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Sophie Daigneau
CAPITAL Assistance in Destruction Society
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.02 14:01:00 -
[176]
Edited by: Sophie Daigneau on 02/12/2009 14:01:37
The principle of 40b as well as remaining 2b interest payment has been made two weeks ahead of schedule. Thanks to CCP for the removal of the dividend cap and saving me more than a few clicks.
I will be back with another bond to replace this one, details should be available in the coming days.
edit: the shares corp will be closed soon and your shares are now worthless. Feel free to do whatever you like with them.
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Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.12.02 14:03:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Sophie Daigneau
Edited by: Sophie Daigneau on 02/12/2009 14:01:37
The principle of 40b as well as remaining 2b interest payment has been made two weeks ahead of schedule. Thanks to CCP for the removal of the dividend cap and saving me more than a few clicks.
I will be back with another bond to replace this one, details should be available in the coming days.
edit: the shares corp will be closed soon and your shares are now worthless. Feel free to do whatever you like with them.
Noes, 
Could you contact us, your loyal investors, first about the upcoming bond?
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Mephistocles
Red Frog Investments
Blue Sky Consortium
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Posted - 2009.12.02 15:15:00 -
[178]
Confirming receipt of principal and last interest payment. This bond was run superbly by Sophie. Payments like clockwork, excellent communication. Best of luck with your next offering, Sophie.
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SetrakDark
Caldari
DarkCorp Technology and Finance
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Posted - 2009.12.02 15:21:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Mephistocles
Confirming receipt of principal and last interest payment. This bond was run superbly by Sophie. Payments like clockwork, excellent communication. Best of luck with your next offering, Sophie.
I just glanced over the thread, and this is pretty much a template on how to present and run an offering.
I hope it doesn't catch on, or us MD trolls will be out of a job.
Gratz.
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Cathra Dekiernau
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Posted - 2009.12.02 15:53:00 -
[180]
Last interest payment + principal received.
Thanks for the profit -- bond was excellently run!
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