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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.06.17 02:06:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Psiri It's s'posed to be a black apoc =(
give marauders an offensive subsystem
that would of course change the apoc to black and give it torps, switch the kronos to focus a bit more on drones, let the varg use arty better, and the golem to use rails.
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Joss Sparq
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.17 03:40:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Commander Yassir Confirming that you absolutely fail for requesting more Marauders. Subsequently confirming that the Tier 3 Hulls need to be used for something.
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Katarlia Simov
Minmatar Cowboys From Hell
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Posted - 2009.06.17 03:49:00 -
[33]
I smell serious overpoweredness in an armor tanking torp bs with two tanking bonuses.
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Unworldly1
Gallente Intergalactic Jesters
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Posted - 2009.06.17 03:53:00 -
[34]
Originally by: OP G : Dominion, Hyperion hull, using drones ( With likely a +1 drone per Marauder level ? )
Does no one else see the issue with this? There are two main drawbacks designed to keep Marauders as PVE boats, not PVP wtfpwn machines: the price - which can be negated by people who are crazy/have enough isk; and the terrible sensor strength, meaning jamming ships can effectively remove them from a battle with much greater ease than any other battleship class ship. The problem with drones is that if the marauder turns up, drops its drones, and then gets jammed, the drones don't care - they'd simply keep killing whatever they want, or they'd go kill the jamming ship. This negates the drawback almost entirely - sure you can't focus fire with the rest of your fleet, but if you just unleashed 10 medium drones on a falcon, you're not going to care, because he won't be jamming you for long.
As must as the idea of new ships is fun, and as a domi pilot, the idea of a new drone ship makes me drool, it can never be a marauder. It would simply become the only marauder, and we all know that price is rarely a barrier to PVP use if the ship is dangerous enough.
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Letifer Deus
Balls Deep Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.17 04:28:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 17/06/2009 04:28:24
Originally by: Unworldly1 and we all know that price is rarely a barrier to PVP use if the ship is dangerous enough.
Which is why, say, nightmares are so popular in PvP. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Unworldly
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Posted - 2009.06.17 05:20:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Letifer Deus Edited by: Letifer Deus on 17/06/2009 04:28:24 Which is why, say, nightmares are so popular in PvP.
And that, my comprehensionally challenged friend, is why I said "rarely"
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2009.06.17 05:34:00 -
[37]
The current marauders already fulfill their role quite good. That Role being PvE. Well ok ... 3 of them do - minny one is a bit meh when compared to others but that is not exactly the fault of ship but more like fault of weapon system.
So I do not think tier 3 hulls should be used as marauders. There is many other directions available tho. Starting with wormhole battleships (greatly reduced mass, some bonuses for probing and stuff) and ending with all the other stuff mentioned above like bigger command ships and so on. Altho current roles are already quite decently filled so it would be better if the role would be something unique - not something that is already fulfilled and where the new ship or the old ship would be pointless bcos there would be something that does it better.
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JordanParey
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.06.17 06:03:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Carniflex The current marauders already fulfill their role quite good. That Role being PvE. Well ok ... 3 of them do - minny one is a bit meh when compared to others but that is not exactly the fault of ship but more like fault of weapon system.
So I do not think tier 3 hulls should be used as marauders. There is many other directions available tho. Starting with wormhole battleships (greatly reduced mass, some bonuses for probing and stuff) and ending with all the other stuff mentioned above like bigger command ships and so on. Altho current roles are already quite decently filled so it would be better if the role would be something unique - not something that is already fulfilled and where the new ship or the old ship would be pointless bcos there would be something that does it better.
What if you combined the Tier 3 Wormhole BS idea with the heavy command ship idea?
Something like...
Tornado (t2 Maelstrom) -3 turrets, so it goes something like this:
Minmatar Battleship bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile rate of fire and 7.5% reduction in mass per level. Heavy Command Ship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount and 5% bonus to effectiveness of Skirmish Warfare gang links per level.
Role Bonus: 99% reduction in gang link fitting requirements 100% bonus to Large Projectile turret Damage
Same requirements as Command ships, but needs CS 5, Minmatar Battleship 5 and some random other required skill that's sort-of relevant.
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Kendar
Gallente Disney inc
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Posted - 2009.06.17 06:46:00 -
[39]
How about minelayer ships from tier 3 bs hull, one ship can have 5 or 10 active mines at the time that could work like drones, they are stationary and will only be active as long as the minelayer ship is on grid. Can be remotedetonated or will detonate when a ship other than the minelayer get within range. And minelayer could be the only ship that can pick up hostile/friendly mines.
Mabye add a rule that there can only be a number of mines active in a single grid at the time to awoid lag exploits
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Omar Khayyam
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.06.17 10:17:00 -
[40]
i would like to see scout battleships really. with zero lock timer after decloaking, a scan probe scanner bonus
dunno, i just want to fly like a klingon! ------------------------------------------------ cruisers used to be a great power when i started this game :) |
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Letifer Deus
Balls Deep Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.17 18:08:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 17/06/2009 18:09:43
Originally by: Unworldly
And that, my comprehensionally challenged friend, is why I said "rarely"
yes, you said price is "rarely" a barrier to flying a ship in PvP if it's a good enough ship. Do I have to explain to you what you said? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
JeremyCricket
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Posted - 2009.06.17 18:48:00 -
[42]
How about we stop trying to find a new niche for tier 3 T2 battleships and just make Heavy Assault Battleships? Four bonuses, no role bonuses, t2 resists, faction price, general awesomeness!!!!
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Kellath Eladrel
Minmatar Eve University
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Posted - 2009.06.17 20:03:00 -
[43]
Originally by: JordanParey
Originally by: Carniflex The current marauders already fulfill their role quite good. That Role being PvE. Well ok ... 3 of them do - minny one is a bit meh when compared to others but that is not exactly the fault of ship but more like fault of weapon system.
So I do not think tier 3 hulls should be used as marauders. There is many other directions available tho. Starting with wormhole battleships (greatly reduced mass, some bonuses for probing and stuff) and ending with all the other stuff mentioned above like bigger command ships and so on. Altho current roles are already quite decently filled so it would be better if the role would be something unique - not something that is already fulfilled and where the new ship or the old ship would be pointless bcos there would be something that does it better.
What if you combined the Tier 3 Wormhole BS idea with the heavy command ship idea?
Something like...
Tornado (t2 Maelstrom) -3 turrets, so it goes something like this:
Minmatar Battleship bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile rate of fire and 7.5% reduction in mass per level. Heavy Command Ship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount and 5% bonus to effectiveness of Skirmish Warfare gang links per level.
Role Bonus: 99% reduction in gang link fitting requirements 100% bonus to Large Projectile turret Damage
Same requirements as Command ships, but needs CS 5, Minmatar Battleship 5 and some random other required skill that's sort-of relevant.
I agree its niche should relate to wormholes, but I'd say leave the ganglinks for the command ship pilots. I would do something having to do with the new NPC AI, giving the pilot the ability to control enemy targeting to some extent - basically CCP introduced an aggro system so here is the tank which I just called Electronic Defense Ship.
In order to do anything you'd need high slot modules - which can temporarily prevent an ally from being (targeted, EWARed, warp jammed, damaged, or some combination). For PvE you could also have a module that increased the probability that you would be targeted.
I think this is specific enough to wormholes that it won't displace the current PvE hierarchy in empire. But I also think it has a bit more uses than the Black Ops. The counters would be to jam this ship or overload the defended ship.
Battleship bonus: 5% bonus to (damage/tracking/range) and 7.5% bonus to (tanking e.g. shield boost/resists/something).
Electronic Defense Ship Bonus: 7.5% reduction in effective mass per level and 10% bonus to (cap/cap recharge/resistance to cap drain).
Role Bonus: 99% reduction in Sensor Interceptor CPU use 100% bonus to (turret damage) 500% bonus to targeting range
Able to fit Sensor Interceptors and Projected Sensor Interceptors.
These would have good sensor strength but perhaps very poor scan resolution to prevent quick target switching and too much damage potential.
Skills something like: Sensor Interception: Allows use of 1 Sensor Interceptor module per level Interception Strength: Increases effectiveness per level - e.g. if damage is being prevented, how much damage can be absorbed per cycle. If warping is being prevented, how many points can be taken off. Interception Field Duration: Basically improves cap usage of the modules and perhaps if the Defense ship is jammed the interception field will linger for the remainder of the cycle.
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JordanParey
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.06.18 00:16:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Kellath Eladrel
Originally by: JordanParey
Originally by: Carniflex The current marauders already fulfill their role quite good. That Role being PvE. Well ok ... 3 of them do - minny one is a bit meh when compared to others but that is not exactly the fault of ship but more like fault of weapon system.
So I do not think tier 3 hulls should be used as marauders. There is many other directions available tho. Starting with wormhole battleships (greatly reduced mass, some bonuses for probing and stuff) and ending with all the other stuff mentioned above like bigger command ships and so on. Altho current roles are already quite decently filled so it would be better if the role would be something unique - not something that is already fulfilled and where the new ship or the old ship would be pointless bcos there would be something that does it better.
Okay, maybe the role bonus for command links is overkill, but it would actually still help in wormholes. We don't need scanning battleships, leave that job to the quicker, more agile scanning-appropriate frigates.
I'm just saying that if you combined the two (because all the good WHs can't be solo'd) it would be relevant to both fields, creating an interesting new ship with which to tinker.
What if you combined the Tier 3 Wormhole BS idea with the heavy command ship idea?
Something like...
Tornado (t2 Maelstrom) -3 turrets, so it goes something like this:
Minmatar Battleship bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile rate of fire and 7.5% reduction in mass per level. Heavy Command Ship Bonus: 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount and 5% bonus to effectiveness of Skirmish Warfare gang links per level.
Role Bonus: 99% reduction in gang link fitting requirements 100% bonus to Large Projectile turret Damage
Same requirements as Command ships, but needs CS 5, Minmatar Battleship 5 and some random other required skill that's sort-of relevant.
I agree its niche should relate to wormholes, but I'd say leave the ganglinks for the command ship pilots. I would do something having to do with the new NPC AI, giving the pilot the ability to control enemy targeting to some extent - basically CCP introduced an aggro system so here is the tank which I just called Electronic Defense Ship.
In order to do anything you'd need high slot modules - which can temporarily prevent an ally from being (targeted, EWARed, warp jammed, damaged, or some combination). For PvE you could also have a module that increased the probability that you would be targeted.
I think this is specific enough to wormholes that it won't displace the current PvE hierarchy in empire. But I also think it has a bit more uses than the Black Ops. The counters would be to jam this ship or overload the defended ship.
Battleship bonus: 5% bonus to (damage/tracking/range) and 7.5% bonus to (tanking e.g. shield boost/resists/something).
Electronic Defense Ship Bonus: 7.5% reduction in effective mass per level and 10% bonus to (cap/cap recharge/resistance to cap drain).
Role Bonus: 99% reduction in Sensor Interceptor CPU use 100% bonus to (turret damage) 500% bonus to targeting range
Able to fit Sensor Interceptors and Projected Sensor Interceptors.
These would have good sensor strength but perhaps very poor scan resolution to prevent quick target switching and too much damage potential.
Skills something like: Sensor Interception: Allows use of 1 Sensor Interceptor module per level Interception Strength: Increases effectiveness per level - e.g. if damage is being prevented, how much damage can be absorbed per cycle. If warping is being prevented, how many points can be taken off. Interception Field Duration: Basically improves cap usage of the modules and perhaps if the Defense ship is jammed the interception field will linger for the remainder of the cycle.
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Cadius Vect
Domination. THE KLINGONS
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Posted - 2009.06.18 01:32:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Cadius Vect on 18/06/2009 01:34:03 Heavy command ships or Heavy Logistics are the only role left open for the t2 versions of the tier 3 ships. Simply give them no more than 5 turret or launcher slots and 2 utility slots for RR, cap transfer or warfare links so they do not become solopwnmobiles change the 8th high to a low or mid slot and keep the second bonus in line with their counterparts currently in the game.
Screw the black baddon I want my black and red Rokh damnit! -----------------------------------------------------------
Killboard: http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view/player-Cadius+Vect-kills.html |
TYCONDEROGA
Amarr The Inf1dels IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.06.18 04:48:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ziester As of now we have
A : Paladin, Apocalypse Hull, using Laser Turrets C : Golem, Raven Hull, using Missiles G : Kronos, Megathron hull, using Hyprid Turrets M : Vargur, Tempest hull, using Projectile Turrets
Since Black Ops are based on Tier 1 hulls, what we could imagine would be, with Tier 3 hulls :
A : Wrath, Abaddon hull, using Missiles ( new black/blue EoM "Abaddon" model anyone ? I'd so train Amarr just for such a ship :D ) C : Shark, Rokh Hull, using ... hybrids again ? drones ? G : Dominion, Hyperion hull, using drones ( With likely a +1 drone per Marauder level ? ) M : Tsunami, Maelstrom hull, using missiles ?
Names are just a thought though. Same improvements over Tier 1 Battleship as the Tier 1 Marauder counterpart ( 4 turrets/launchers but +100% damage, slighty better resists and such. For the Dominion, since it would be drone boat, maybe make its role bonus +5 Drone Control and the base ship's bandwidth to 250m3, to put it in-line with the other marauders' role bonus ).
I know I'll probably get some "Let CCP f*ckin fix the f*kin bugs before getting those" and such, but it's just a crazy idea I had and I'd like some feedback about it :)
/discuss
I've always hoped there will be a EoM style Abaddon... nice job on the names
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Leiara Knight
Gallente The Oblivion Guard
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Posted - 2009.06.18 05:44:00 -
[47]
Heavy Command Salvager, able to provide a bonus to the salvaging ships in its gang. Instead of using weapons it would have a larger cargo bay and a high propulsion strength engine drive. Raise the targeting limit to 27 to help organisation in the thick of heavy combat.
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2009.06.21 14:58:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Leiara Knight Heavy Command Salvager, able to provide a bonus to the salvaging ships in its gang. Instead of using weapons it would have a larger cargo bay and a high propulsion strength engine drive. Raise the targeting limit to 27 to help organisation in the thick of heavy combat.
Interesting idea. Altho currently there is hard cap in place at 12 targets as far as I'm aware. However in my opinion battleship class hull might be somewhat overkill for dedicated salvage boat. Perhaps tier 2 BC's or some cruiser or industrial variant would be better base for that kind of ship.
There is still some specialized roles out there that are somewhat unfulfilled at the moment. I myself like most one of the ideas presented elsewhere - a ship with bonus to racial smartbomb range. Sort of like stealth bombers bombs but attached to ship itself (same way as interdictors and HiC relate to each other). |
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