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low sec = low quality experience?

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Mitch Taylor Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.06.24 11:32:00 - [1] Edited by: Mitch Taylor on 24/06/2009 11:35:24 As a relative nub when it comes to all things server related, I can only guess as to some of the challenges the dev team of this game face. That said, I think its fair to assume that the 'king of the hill' style game play, with the majority of resources that people want being in key system in 0.0, it leads to local population issues and the dreaded lag. With Factional warfare, the developers introduced a new dynamic to low security space and currently thousands of paying customers partake in all the fun of the fair. There are many benefits to living in low sec, great mission rewards, limited stress of defending pos's and outposts and minimal risk. However there is also a heavy price to pay, which I have to say over the past 6 months appears to be getting worse, not better. I could call it lag, I could call it annoying, but to be honest its just broken. EVE Online Low Sec is BROKEN. If you just fly around, its fine. If you just run missions, its fine. Now having played this game for many years, I know that the developers didn't intend their little citziens to be carebearing our hearts out 24/7. They want us to fight right? Well I want to fight too, but right now, I avoid it since 20 people fighting together in lowsec is laggy to the point you lose ships without seeing them being attacked. 30 people plus you get this dreaded 'entering space' message, which then turns into a 'who can log out and back in quickest' game to see who wins. Tactics dont matter, Ships dont matter, only who is able to load, which is in the hands of the gods. I wont keep taking my guys into this mess, so thats 196 actual paying customers who are not getting the product they paid for. Off the top of my head I can think of about 700 others who are in the same boat. Please fix our game, we want to populate lowsec, but its upto you to fix it! Snuggles, Mitch

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2009.06.24 11:36:00 - [2] Does that make high-sec a high quality experience?

Taylor03 Minmatar Glasgow K1SS	Posted - 2009.06.24 11:38:00 - [3]
Karentaki Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.06.24 11:38:00 - [4] No, lag isn't the problem. The problem is that the rewards in lowsec simply aren't worth the risk of going there. Sure you can get a 10-20% increase in mission rewards, but on the other hand you are vastly more likely to die (especially if you have the IQ of the average mission runner). Quote: EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
Mitch Taylor Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.06.24 11:38:00 - [5] Originally by: Chribba Does that make high-sec a high quality experience? Unfortunately I haven't tried out high sec from a pvp perspective for a long time, but if you want to give me the low down for the purposes of the thread, it might help The Dark is Rising... Fight my Brute!
Mitch Taylor Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.06.24 11:40:00 - [6] Originally by: Karentaki No, lag isn't the problem. The problem is that the rewards in lowsec simply aren't worth the risk of going there. Sure you can get a 10-20% increase in mission rewards, but on the other hand you are vastly more likely to die (especially if you have the IQ of the average mission runner). Its certainly not for individuals, as with 0.0 your better off in a corp or alliance. But the rewards are worth it, 100% increase in lp for example. The problem is, by being safe... ie more numbers, you get this wierd issue with lag, in what are compared to 0.0 very very very small numbers. The Dark is Rising... Fight my Brute!
Navtiqes Space Sheriff	Posted - 2009.06.24 11:41:00 - [7] Edited by: Navtiqes on 24/06/2009 11:42:19 Only skimmed through the OP, but I've never encountered lowsec exclusive lag, and I don't fly anywhere else. The only times there's been problems recently was when the entire shard had trouble a couple weeks ago. If the faction warfare places are so bad, make a corp, declare war and go somewhere else instead. It's pretty much the same thing minus the warfare rats.
Caelum Dominus Invicta.	Posted - 2009.06.24 11:43:00 - [8] Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 24/06/2009 11:42:56 I'm unfamiliar with this "low-sec lag" that people keep referring to. Over the past few days we've killed nearly 10 carriers in low-sec, attracting 30+ people on each side in every encounter. There has been no lag whatsoever. EVE Arena
Mitch Taylor Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.06.24 11:47:00 - [9] Originally by: Caelum Dominus Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 24/06/2009 11:42:56 I'm unfamiliar with this "low-sec lag" that people keep referring to. Over the past few days we've killed nearly 10 carriers in low-sec, attracting 30+ people on each side in every encounter. There has been no lag whatsoever. Thats great news Caelum, we however are experiencing exactly the opposite. What area are you in? The Dark is Rising... Fight my Brute!
Caelum Dominus Invicta.	Posted - 2009.06.24 11:49:00 - [10] Originally by: Mitch Taylor Originally by: Caelum Dominus Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 24/06/2009 11:42:56 I'm unfamiliar with this "low-sec lag" that people keep referring to. Over the past few days we've killed nearly 10 carriers in low-sec, attracting 30+ people on each side in every encounter. There has been no lag whatsoever. Thats great news Caelum, we however are experiencing exactly the opposite. What area are you in? We recently moved from Domain to Genesis. No lag in either region.
Dibsi Dei Salamyhkaisten kilta	Posted - 2009.06.24 11:55:00 - [11] Originally by: Karentaki No, lag isn't the problem. /o\
Mitch Taylor Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.06.24 11:55:00 - [12] Edited by: Mitch Taylor on 24/06/2009 11:56:03 Originally by: Caelum Dominus domain Hold on, Caelum we have fought your corporation mate. In lag! both sides have reported... you got a magic client?
Takon Orlani Caldari Rowdy Ramblers Mortal Destruction	Posted - 2009.06.24 12:05:00 - [13] You could always stop being minnie FW's little pet. ROWDY WANTS YOU!!
Caelum Dominus Invicta.	Posted - 2009.06.24 12:09:00 - [14] Originally by: Mitch Taylor Edited by: Mitch Taylor on 24/06/2009 11:56:03 Originally by: Caelum Dominus domain Hold on, Caelum we have fought your corporation mate. In lag! both sides have reported... you got a magic client? I'm not sure we fought you in Domain? We were only there for a week, and mostly brawled with CVA and their pets. Either way, I haven't experienced lag in low-sec for months. EVE Arena
Mitch Taylor Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.06.24 12:26:00 - [15] Originally by: Takon Orlani You could always stop being minnie FW's little pet. The Dark is Rising... Fight my Brute!
Morphisat Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2009.06.24 12:48:00 - [16] Edited by: Morphisat on 24/06/2009 12:48:33 Duplicate Thread ! Lag in Factional Warfare
Bfoster Wrecking Shots	Posted - 2009.06.24 14:09:00 - [17] If you are saying low sec is broken simply because of lag.. You are wrong.. Quit blobbing.. Blob=Lag.. Anywhere in eve.. High sec, low sec, null sec.. It is the eve gods punishment for being blobtards.. I was a pirate for a long time, the introduction of BS rat's in low sec was a very nice addition, but they need to significantly boost mission rewards in low sec for people to actually risk it, better ore for miners, and maybe more carebears would move into low sec? Got to have the benefits. Right now they are just not there. High sec is just too easy..
Milo Caman Gallente Ghost Festival	Posted - 2009.06.24 14:11:00 - [18] Solution? Make Lowsec Unique. Make it the new Black market for Drugs, Organs, Babies, Baby Organs and stuff that isn't available anywhere else!
wtbrandomnamegenerator	Posted - 2009.06.24 14:30:00 - [19] Originally by: Bfoster If you are saying low sec is broken simply because of lag.. You are wrong.. Quit blobbing.. Blob=Lag.. Anywhere in eve.. High sec, low sec, null sec.. It is the eve gods punishment for being blobtards.. Your an idiot, when they can pack 1200 people into a 0.0 system and have it be playable, and he's talking about the 30 people fighting it takes to lag out a low sec system....well, your an idiot, for calling that a blob. Of course, in the mental midget perfect world you live in, I'm sure all of eve would just duke it out in perfect little arranged 1v1's. ******
Hoo Is	Posted - 2009.06.24 14:43:00 - [20] Originally by: wtbrandomnamegenerator Originally by: Bfoster If you are saying low sec is broken simply because of lag.. You are wrong.. Quit blobbing.. Blob=Lag.. Anywhere in eve.. High sec, low sec, null sec.. It is the eve gods punishment for being blobtards.. Your an idiot, when they can pack 1200 people into a 0.0 system and have it be playable, and he's talking about the 30 people fighting it takes to lag out a low sec system....well, your an idiot, for calling that a blob. Of course, in the mental midget perfect world you live in, I'm sure all of eve would just duke it out in perfect little arranged 1v1's. ****** I am quoting a fail name troll post
kayentelva Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.06.24 14:52:00 - [21] i usually play internetspaceships in the catch and provi regions when i fired up my trusty eve client but played my FW alt in the amamake/auga/dal area, I could not believe the buggy behavior lag, overview glitches, jump gate delays, etc log back in as main in 0.0 and the problems go away, even in much larger battles low-sec, at least in FW areas, is totally f*&(cked
NeoNeTiC LOCKDOWN. Cult of War	Posted - 2009.06.24 15:08:00 - [22] Edited by: NeoNeTiC on 24/06/2009 15:08:39 Also see this 8 pages long thread in which the Milia-guys complain about similar issues. (edit: Just saw someone posted it already above ._.) I personally gave up FW since the mechanics support blob-warfare (let's say like 20 people on each side) but something on Tranquility does not. Suprisingly enough it does not happen in 0.0 with even bigger numbers. Who knows what it causes - may be being on the same node as empire hubs, may be strange GCC-code or a yet not discovered "feature", aka. "lowsec-blob-prevention".
Toscaria Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.06.24 15:41:00 - [23] @ OP: Sitting on the other side of the front line from you guys, I can tell you we experience the exact same thing. Thanks for the post, but it's been said before... And CCP is still "working on it."
Bfoster Wrecking Shots	Posted - 2009.06.24 15:44:00 - [24] Edited by: Bfoster on 24/06/2009 15:44:56 First.. Grow up and post with your main.. Second.. 1200 people in a system does not equal playable.. Never.. A 30 man fight is not a blob.. And I have never seen a 30 man fight cause lag, if you are lagging in a 30 man fight, buy a new PC or quit fighting in Jita.. ----------------------------------------------- My Killboard
KiloAlpha Southern Cross Trilogy	Posted - 2009.06.24 15:53:00 - [25] Ok lowsec lags when u pvp the answer is form up a gang of expendable ships in ur lowsec home and roam into nullsec. You will also find that there are more people ready to fight instead of playing station games. Oh and for the record the lag could be your eve rig, i have yet to have lag issues pvping in lowsec( thank u quad core processors and T1 connection)
Simone denAdel Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.06.24 16:06:00 - [26] Edited by: Simone denAdel on 24/06/2009 16:06:52 Originally by: Bfoster ...if you are lagging in a 30 man fight, buy a new PC or quit fighting in Jita.. FW/lowsec lag is a known issue by CCP. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1002943 ...and they have mentioned a possible "fix" being in the works for a while now. I doubt the fix involves them suggesting to the majority of FW players to buy a new PC.
Mitch Taylor Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.06.24 16:13:00 - [27] Thanks for all your contributions, however I would like to point out that 'options' such as fighting in smaller gangs, going to 0.0 etc are not really relevant. Im talking about where we choose to live in this game. Low sec, if we live in low sec the majority of our activities are in low sec and as stated the mechanics are broken. Prob best to get further discussion in the thread which already exists, i was tired when i posted this ;) The Dark is Rising... Fight my Brute!
Dibsi Dei Salamyhkaisten kilta	Posted - 2009.06.24 16:15:00 - [28] Originally by: Bfoster if you are lagging in a 30 man fight, buy a new PC or quit fighting in Jita.. Dude, we are talking about lowsec here.
Joe Martin Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.06.24 16:23:00 - [29] Originally by: Takon Orlani You could always stop being minnie FW's little pet. Aren't you guys Heretic pets or something? That's pretty rich. On a side note, yes, low-sec is laggy. If you can make 1000 people in local relatively playable in 0.0 you should very well be able to make 100 people in local relatively playable in low-sec.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.24 16:32:00 - [30] Originally by: Mitch Taylor Edited by: Mitch Taylor on 24/06/2009 11:56:03 Originally by: Caelum Dominus domain Hold on, Caelum we have fought your corporation mate. In lag! both sides have reported... you got a magic client? Probably just better gear than you. Since upgrading my PC I have had no lag issues anywhere unless its a fight with crazy numbers.
Mitch Taylor Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.06.24 16:34:00 - [31] Edited by: Mitch Taylor on 24/06/2009 16:34:47 Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Mitch Taylor Edited by: Mitch Taylor on 24/06/2009 11:56:03 Originally by: Caelum Dominus domain Hold on, Caelum we have fought your corporation mate. In lag! both sides have reported... you got a magic client? Probably just better gear than you. Since upgrading my PC I have had no lag issues anywhere unless its a fight with crazy numbers. My computer isnt that new, but its ok for the game in 0.0 Q6600 2x8800 gts sli 4 gig windows vista 64 but to be honest, its not graphical lag The Dark is Rising... Fight my Brute!
Phantom Slave JUDGE DREAD Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.24 16:38:00 - [32] Originally by: wtbrandomnamegenerator Your an idiot, when they can pack 1200 people into a 0.0 system and have it be playable, and he's talking about the 30 people fighting it takes to lag out a low sec system....well, your an idiot, for calling that a blob. Of course, in the mental midget perfect world you live in, I'm sure all of eve would just duke it out in perfect little arranged 1v1's. **** Originally by:** Joe Martin Originally by: Takon Orlani You could always stop being minnie FW's little pet. Aren't you guys Heretic pets or something? That's pretty rich. On a side note, yes, low-sec is laggy. If you can make 1000 people in local relatively playable in 0.0 you should very well be able to make 100 people in local relatively playable in low-sec. ^^^ You 2 need to understand that 1,000 pilots in a single fight in 0.0 is barely playable, and to actually do this CCP has to be notified 24 hours in advance to have the node put on special hardware to have it reinforced. The 1200 man fight you're talking about was laggy, and the node crashed after a short time. You call a crashed node playable? I can assure you that in 0.0 a 100 vs 100 fight can be laggy, 200 vs 200 is laggy, and anything higher requires a special node to even be able to play it. Your lowsec/FW lag is a different issue than nodes. CCP recently finished upgrading ALL of their hardware so everything on TQ is all the same hardware. There are other issues at work here. There are already FW lag threads, keep that discussion in those. If you want to talk about the lack of interest in lowsec, lack of risk/reward, then by all means discuss it. But this thread started off with "lag is not the issue" and now everybody is complaining about something that CCP has said they know about and have been working on pinning down the issue for a while now.
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.24 16:54:00 - [33] Edited by: Merdaneth on 24/06/2009 16:55:47 People, please get this into your head: 1. This is FW specific. Low-sec fights without any FW players involved function fine with 30 vs. 30 ships 2. It has nothing to do with the specs of one's computer or connection. 3. It has a clear triggering event. If you are not affected by that event, you don't suffer the corresponding lag. I've flown besides FW fleets completely paralyzed by lag with nearly no ill effects myself, mostly when I warp in after the fight has already started and thus miss the 'trigger'. 4. The odds of the trigger event occuring rise when server-side lag rises. Even 1-2 seconds server-side lag can bring it about. It is not directly caused by server-side lag, but indirectly. My hypothesis is that there is a bad piece of code out there that has a bug that only crops up under heavy load. Then events get out of sync and the server becomes unable to properly process individual requests. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
london Gallente Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.06.24 20:02:00 - [34] Originally by: Caelum Dominus Originally by: Mitch Taylor Originally by: Caelum Dominus Edited by: Caelum Dominus on 24/06/2009 11:42:56 I'm unfamiliar with this "low-sec lag" that people keep referring to. Over the past few days we've killed nearly 10 carriers in low-sec, attracting 30+ people on each side in every encounter. There has been no lag whatsoever. Thats great news Caelum, we however are experiencing exactly the opposite. What area are you in? We recently moved from Domain to Genesis. No lag in either region. The difference might be that your not in FW. FW is the lag over-head from hell?
Draeca Tharri and Co.	Posted - 2009.06.24 20:55:00 - [35] Move FW to solitude region -> problem solved!
Takon Orlani Caldari Rowdy Ramblers Mortal Destruction	Posted - 2009.06.24 22:16:00 - [36] Originally by: Joe Martin Originally by: Takon Orlani You could always stop being minnie FW's little pet. Aren't you guys Heretic pets or something? That's pretty rich. On a side note, yes, low-sec is laggy. If you can make 1000 people in local relatively playable in 0.0 you should very well be able to make 100 people in local relatively playable in low-sec. We're not FW 's pet, that's my point. Besides, its more of a partnership. ROWDY WANTS YOU!!
Jodie Amille Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.06.24 22:51:00 - [37] Add the sixty-something guys in Gunship to the tally that aren't getting their money's worth. Sort this **** already
Herzog Wolfhammer	Posted - 2009.06.24 23:19:00 - [38] there must be some kind of load balancing system that is too slow to catch up.
Mutnin Mutineers	Posted - 2009.06.24 23:29:00 - [39] I personally give up on gang fighting in FW, it's just not worth it. The last fleet I joined I died and lost my pod with a set of +3 implants due to lag. I actually saw the Eve mail for my insurance loss about 20 second before my ship blew up on screen. FW is fail on the lag side, which is very sad to say, because despite the lack of any updates it is pretty fun.

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