I wish I had NetFlix here in Iceland

On the topic of greed: Greed cannot be good as the definition requires excess. Greed is a state of restlessness and it is not to be confused with ambition, necessity or drive. When Ivan Boesky coined the phrase in question he, hopefully, meant to inspire ambition and drive. At least I see no gain from muddling up the definition to include grey areas.
Necessity is amoral. Ambition and drive are good as if taken to extremes they are actually greed.

But yes.. I wish I had NetFlix! That is clearly the main point of this post!

I wish I had NetFlix here in Iceland

On the topic of greed: Greed cannot be good as the definition requires excess. Greed is a state of restlessness and it is not to be confused with ambition, necessity or drive. When Ivan Boesky coined the phrase in question he, hopefully, meant to inspire ambition and drive. At least I see no gain from muddling up the definition to include grey areas.
Necessity is amoral. Ambition and drive are good as if taken to extremes they are actually greed.

But yes.. I wish I had NetFlix! That is clearly the main point of this post!

I know CCP has an Economist on board, and now it seems they have hired an in-house Philosopher as well :) And if that's not the case, I nominate CCP Prism for the job! Wise words....

I only did the streaming and I think it is actually a decent deal. The movies are pretty terrible but had a couple good ones every month. Has a lot of tv shows though which is what I mainly watched.

I did recently cancel though, but I wanted to play some more games instead of sitting in front of the monitor watching tv......plus had to drop $2k on a transmission for my car so had to cutback on a couple monthly payments :P

Thanks for the kind words sir, but I've been here since Oktober 16th 2006
Besides, CCP Xhagen is our in-house philosopher. I don't debate for purpose, I debate because I like debating.

He's also our in-house GIGANTIC VIKING, so in the slim chance he doesn't out philosophize you, he will simply pummel you with the psychic strength of his mohawk.

I too am a moral crusader! YARR!

Oh wai... it's a game!

Speak with your subscription not with your keyboard, friend.
As a paying subscriber, I tire of you and your ilk mucking up the forums with the same tired and naive arguments.

The vast majority of games in the market now contain some kind of non-vanity products, promotions, specials, or deals.
Whether I like that fact or not is inconsequential, enough people evidently do or it would not be trending in the gaming industry like it is. You are vastly outnumbered by people easily gulled into purchasing non-vanity products just to have something the guy next to them does not merely because he is unwilling to use or does not actually have the disposable income to do so. You know the greater irony here is that the NEX pricing actually prevents masses of these same people from taking full advantage of it, which I find most interesting to be honest. If CCP wanted to milk it as much as possible, they would have made NEX items more readily accessible to a wider demographic than they did. Interesting.

I am unfortunately in the position of either accepting the fact that in today's industry more people than not are willing to take part in these ventures or I simply have to stop playing.

Which do you think I am going to choose?

Yes, yes, EVE is a beacon of light in a sea of inequity! A champion of player rights in opposition to all the evil nefarious games out there trying to make money off us and CCP is trying to take that away from us! ...only it is not, and never has been.

Welcome to the real world.

Wait a minute...
So not every at CCP is a viking?

Not interested anymore, cancelling sub.

He's also our in-house GIGANTIC VIKING, so in the slim chance he doesn't out philosophize you, he will simply pummel you with the psychic strength of his mohawk.

You could have just said " I don't agree" but no you moan about people using the same "tired and naive arguments" but then proceed to spout the usual pro-CCP crap that everyone else does. Good Work Fella I for one salute your attempt.

In counter to your "wider demographic" (loving the words) argument if everyone can have who would want it? I don't want it now ,let alone if it was 10 times cheaper. It's tat, like the stuff you win at a fair, worth nothing and about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

All that junk in the NEX store is to pander to the egomaniacs, children,mentally deranged idiots that think that by somehow buying this stuff they will be seen as the elite, upper echelons of a non existant group of players. These people are sheep blindly led into conveyor belt of completely useless and gawdy items but because they have one it massages their need to feel more supreme either by allowing them to be part of a a supposed "select" group which look down upon the masses or then even worse "I bought this so I can show how lame it is brigade".

Just because something is the norm doesn't mean it's right or correct, just take a look back in history for any one of a thousand things.

[quote=CCP Prism X]

He's also our in-house GIGANTIC VIKING, so in the slim chance he doesn't out philosophize you, he will simply pummel you with the psychic strength of his mohawk.

As long as the future of Eve Online is hands of guys like this, I feel much more confident about where we're going. :)

Your personal opinions do not change reality for anyone but you.

Morality and ethics are two very distinct concepts, and you cannot attribute moral profundity to an entertainment product, only to necessities.

Capitalizing on people's pain and suffering by hiking prices on gas in a disaster zone, is immoral.
Capitalizing on people's desire for entertainment and charging them whatever price you want, is not.
Unethical, maybe in some countries, but immoral, hardly.


Edit: Who said I am pro CCP? I am not. I pay for access to an entertainment product; if I am at any point unhappy with that product, I will simply stop paying for it. I need not harbor ill will towards any one group or company to base my personal entertainment experiences off of, as they did not design this game nor support it solely for me or those like me.

Now, whether they flub things for a vast majority of subscribers is another matter, and yet to be seen. This is where my argument comes in, if enough people are willing to pay for vanity items, why are you crying foul that a commercial enterprise attempts to sell them said vanity items?

Are you... daft?

Wait a minute...
So not every at CCP is a viking?

Not interested anymore, cancelling sub.

They thought the could raise their prices 60% like how CCP thought we'd have no issue with a MT store injected into out MT free game.

No, my point was, you called people who complained about it as naive then basically after all your rhetoric bascially finished saying if you don't like it please don't complain and leave quietly because that's just the way it is. My counter argument was to say the world is the way it is basically because of people like yourself whom are happy with the staus quo.

People will always moan and groan about things and then after a period of time will just carry on as normal, this is what CCP are counting on. Personally I don't care about NEX one way or the other but I will always have a problem with people who say stop complaining as this is the way it is.

Alot of people pay alot of money to play this game and if they want to complain I say let them even if their arguments are flawed or even wrong.

I pick my fights very carefully, the NEX store will not be one unless they release actual non-vanity items to the game.
I did protest Dominion, but it was largely out of spite because I could not really blame CCP for the soul crushing lag more than I could merely lament how depressingly long it took them to fix it or even admit to it (or to the actual scale of the problem, that is).

Pick your fights wisely Signal! Some things are worth fighting over, others are not.

Vanity items, are not worth fighting over, every game has them anymore, it is only a matter of time.
Non-vanity however... greatly disappoints me, but I can no better stop that tide than I could could stop time.

Unfortunately for those like us... yes, you and me, even if we quit playing any and all video games with non-vanity items, we will simply be relegated to the status of dinosaurs or relics of the past, and those who are more than willing to pay for non-vanity items will simply replace us.

You realize this I hope, whether you like it or not.

If CCP ever releases true non-vanity items, I will be gone like the wind, but I have no doubt that ten others will replace me, if not in this game, then in others like it, and by others, I mean MMOs themselves.

Yep totally agree with you there!

Hey look, a red bar that says "Mendolus View post"

Im assuming the champion apologist of the MT came to flame me.

have fun with that, man, I cant see it any more. Best option ever for the forums CCP

You could have just said " I don't agree" but no you moan about people using the same "tired and naive arguments" but then proceed to spout the usual pro-CCP crap that everyone else does. Good Work Fella I for one salute your attempt.

In counter to your "wider demographic" (loving the words) argument if everyone can have who would want it? I don't want it now ,let alone if it was 10 times cheaper. It's tat, like the stuff you win at a fair, worth nothing and about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

All that junk in the NEX store is to pander to the egomaniacs, children,mentally deranged idiots that think that by somehow buying this stuff they will be seen as the elite, upper echelons of a non existant group of players. These people are sheep blindly led into conveyor belt of completely useless and gawdy items but because they have one it massages their need to feel more supreme either by allowing them to be part of a a supposed "select" group which look down upon the masses or then even worse "I bought this so I can show how lame it is brigade".

Just because something is the norm doesn't mean it's right or correct, just take a look back in history for any one of a thousand things.
I like EVE I'm probably addicted to it in some way and at the moment as the NEX store is selling junk it doesn't bother me, that may or may not change in the future.

It's only the "real world" because sheep like you let it be.

Hey look, a red bar that says "Mendolus View post"

Im assuming the champion apologist of the MT came to flame me.

have fun with that, man, I cant see it any more. Best option ever for the forums CCP

Though I do love the attitude of lets gloss over the idea they got greedy, raised the price 60% an are losing a million customers
but lets talk stock stuff instead

You need help.

Hopefully folks like us who are more practical about the whole thing, will be the ones that CCP is afraid of losing... I am uncertain whether or not EVE is still fresh enough to attract the non-vanity crowd in such a way as to entice the bean counters in the marketing department or not.

I believe we are safe from it, so long as the subscriptions remain mostly level over time, which is also a source of great irony in that, the more people that quit to protest the notion of non-vanity in EVE, are actually promoting it indirectly, lol... because what else is CCP going to do if the money starts drying up?

They will go F2P of course...

Irony is ironic!

Thus I keep my subscriptions going until the day non-vanity items are released. Since I technically have nothing to actually protest until the day they are, if and when they ever are in EVE Online.

I want to ask you a very friendly question on this point.

Do you see a difference between selling (theoretically) non-vanity items in the NeX and turning the game into Pay-to-Win.

I ask because of the existence of the secondary player market.

If non-vanity items are sold for cash via the NeX (items that give an advantage in game) and then freely resold on the open player driven market for ISK (and thus available to everyone with no cash transaction required), is that really Pay-to-Win in your opinion?

It somewhat subverts the point of blocking someone when all of your posts are referring to the fact that you have them blocked. Lol

yeah i gave in... I find it makes me at least feel better to let those Ive blocked know theyre blocked so they dont go on grandiose tirades and rants for my benefit and think its making me feel bad.

an as far as the lalala thing goes you both seem to do that quite fine yourselves. even without the block button

I was made an honorary Viking because my potty mouth can scare the bejesus out of most villages we **** and pillage.

I wish I had NetFlix here in Iceland

On the topic of greed: Greed cannot be good as the definition requires excess. Greed is a state of restlessness and it is not to be confused with ambition, necessity or drive. When Ivan Boesky coined the phrase in question he, hopefully, meant to inspire ambition and drive. At least I see no gain from muddling up the definition to include grey areas.
Necessity is amoral. Ambition and drive are good as if taken to extremes they are actually greed.

But yes.. I wish I had NetFlix! That is clearly the main point of this post!

On the topic of greed: Greed cannot be good as the definition requires excess. Greed is a state of restlessness and it is not to be confused with ambition, necessity or drive.

I wish I had NetFlix here in Iceland

On the topic of greed: Greed cannot be good as the definition requires excess. Greed is a state of restlessness and it is not to be confused with ambition, necessity or drive. When Ivan Boesky coined the phrase in question he, hopefully, meant to inspire ambition and drive. At least I see no gain from muddling up the definition to include grey areas.
Necessity is amoral. Ambition and drive are good as if taken to extremes they are actually greed.

But yes.. I wish I had NetFlix! That is clearly the main point of this post!

I wish I had NetFlix here in Iceland

On the topic of greed: Greed cannot be good as the definition requires excess. Greed is a state of restlessness and it is not to be confused with ambition, necessity or drive. When Ivan Boesky coined the phrase in question he, hopefully, meant to inspire ambition and drive. At least I see no gain from muddling up the definition to include grey areas.
Necessity is amoral. Ambition and drive are good as if taken to extremes they are actually greed.

But yes.. I wish I had NetFlix! That is clearly the main point of this post!

Confirming that I love Netflix (though I only stream right now). Also confirming that the price increase wasn't that big a deal and most who unsubbed did it out of "principle", or something...not because the increase was actually that big a deal. Also, I must confirm that Netflix and NeX are so dissimilar that this thread was DOA.

I wish I had NetFlix here in Iceland

On the topic of greed: Greed cannot be good as the definition requires excess. Greed is a state of restlessness and it is not to be confused with ambition, necessity or drive. When Ivan Boesky coined the phrase in question he, hopefully, meant to inspire ambition and drive. At least I see no gain from muddling up the definition to include grey areas.
Necessity is amoral. Ambition and drive are good as if taken to extremes they are actually greed.

But yes.. I wish I had NetFlix! That is clearly the main point of this post!

Greed is good in particular is a terrible moto for CCP, as artistic endevours go, PC developers and designers are the Van Goghs of the 21 century. They are the artist and entertainers that create works that put a mirror to our culture very much like painters did a century ago. For a company to function on a greed is good moto, a coin phrased by a self admitied thief is a traggedy to say the least, emberassing at best.

I dunno.... people unsubbing "out of principle" over something that's not really that big a deal? Sounds eerily familiar to me...

Seriously, HAS anyone ever come up with an explanation of exactly why MicroTransactions are supposedly so evil?

Microtransactions aren't evil...

...so long as you don't already have a game established around subscriptions where everyone expects equal opportunity/gameplay for said subscription money.

And even then you can have them, as long as they are superficial and do not impact gameplay.

This has to be the most convoluted definition of greed I've ever read. It makes greed seem like just a fine tuning problem. Greed is wanting more than you need..."an excessive desire to possess wealth or goods with the intention [of keeping] it for one's self." ...rapacious desire and pursuit of wealth, status, and power.

Ambition? Drive? Where did these two come up in relation to "greed"? Gordon Gecko said it in "Wall Street." Greed is good. Michael Douglas was hounded by yuppies congratulating him on providing them with a purpose in life. He said it was a line he'd wished he'd never spoken. In fact, a "Wall Street" II was issued to dampen down that one statement which seemed to give license to an avaricious generation.

It's like Vince Lombardi saying, "Winning isn't everything. It's the only thing." Later, he wished he'd never said that as it, "sends the wrong message."

What's sort of suddenly suspicious about your point is...since you do work for CCP...and CCP's integrity has been called into question SO MUCH lately...well, it's like somebody's tipped his hand here. Thanks for the peek, Prism.

I dunno.... people unsubbing "out of principle" over something that's not really that big a deal? Sounds eerily familiar to me...

Seriously, HAS anyone ever come up with an explanation of exactly why MicroTransactions are supposedly so evil?

Barricade Dark: "Greed is good in particular is a terrible moto for CCP, as artistic endevours go, PC developers and designers are the Van Goghs of the 21 century. They are the artist and entertainers that create works that put a mirror to our culture very much like painters did a century ago. For a company to function on a greed is good moto, a coin phrased by a self admitied thief is a traggedy to say the least, emberassing at best."

Good thing they were using it ironically, then.

Dear Customer,

I messed up. I owe you an explanation.

It is clear from the feedback over the past two months that many members felt we lacked respect and humility in the way we announced the separation of DVD and streaming and the price changes. That was certainly not our intent, and I offer my sincere apology. Let me explain what we are doing.

For the past five years, my greatest fear at Netflix has been that we wouldn't make the leap from success in DVDs to success in streaming. Most companies that are great at something GÇô like AOL dialup or Borders bookstores GÇô do not become great at new things people want (streaming for us). So we moved quickly into streaming, but I should have personally given you a full explanation of why we are splitting the services and thereby increasing prices. It wouldnGÇÖt have changed the price increase, but it would have been the right thing to do.

So here is what we are doing and why.

Many members love our DVD service, as I do, because nearly every movie ever made is published on DVD. DVD is a great option for those who want the huge and comprehensive selection of movies.

I also love our streaming service because it is integrated into my TV, and I can watch anytime I want. The benefits of our streaming service are really quite different from the benefits of DVD by mail. We need to focus on rapid improvement as streaming technology and the market evolves, without maintaining compatibility with our DVD by mail service.

So we realized that streaming and DVD by mail are really becoming two different businesses, with very different cost structures, that need to be marketed differently, and we need to let each grow and operate independently.

ItGÇÖs hard to write this after over 10 years of mailing DVDs with pride, but we think it is necessary: In a few weeks, we will rename our DVD by mail service to GÇ£QwiksterGÇ¥. We chose the name Qwikster because it refers to quick delivery. We will keep the name GÇ£NetflixGÇ¥ for streaming.

Qwikster will be the same website and DVD service that everyone is used to. It is just a new name, and DVD members will go to qwikster.com to access their DVD queues and choose movies. One improvement we will make at launch is to add a video games upgrade option, similar to our upgrade option for Blu-ray, for those who want to rent Wii, PS3 and Xbox 360 games. Members have been asking for video games for many years, but now that DVD by mail has its own team, we are finally getting it done. Other improvements will follow. A negative of the renaming and separation is that the Qwikster.com and Netflix.com websites will not be integrated.

There are no pricing changes (weGÇÖre done with that!). If you subscribe to both services you will have two entries on your credit card statement, one for Qwikster and one for Netflix. The total will be the same as your current charges. We will let you know in a few weeks when the Qwikster.com website is up and ready.

For me the Netflix red envelope has always been a source of joy. The new envelope is still that lovely red, but now it will have a Qwikster logo. I know that logo will grow on me over time, but still, it is hard. I imagine it will be similar for many of you.

I want to acknowledge and thank you for sticking with us, and to apologize again to those members, both current and former, who felt we treated them thoughtlessly.

Both the Qwikster and Netflix teams will work hard to regain your trust. We know it will not be overnight. Actions speak louder than words. But words help people to understand actions.

Respectfully yours,

-Reed Hastings, Co-Founder and CEO, Netflix

Which they are.

and yet people like the OP are still hollering "MTs are evil not in my EVE!". Hence my (rhetorical) question.

I guess the argument somebody's going to drag out is "It's a slippery slope". Which I always find amusing because "Slippery Slope" is in fact a formal logical fallacy.

I wish I had NetFlix here in Iceland

On the topic of greed: Greed cannot be good as the definition requires excess. Greed is a state of restlessness and it is not to be confused with ambition, necessity or drive. When Ivan Boesky coined the phrase in question he, hopefully, meant to inspire ambition and drive. At least I see no gain from muddling up the definition to include grey areas.
Necessity is amoral. Ambition and drive are good as if taken to extremes they are actually greed.

But yes.. I wish I had NetFlix! That is clearly the main point of this post!

Posting in a necro-thread!

This game is already pay to win just get you credict card and buy 1000 plexes and you won EVE...

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
--C.S. Lewis

...

I don't understand why people always claim greed is the problem caused by this, humans are always greedy, we go on shopping sprees, we eat lots of chocolate, we play video games for too long without caring about our health. Like with everything it's only when it's done constantly to the point of no return that is when you end up damaging everything and yourself.

I agree with people posting about the Nex Store as well, I won't be able to fully trust CCP as a games company until they remove it, this is also a perfect example of what I'm talking about, I refuse to purchase anything from the nex store even with the free 1000 aurum I have. They are not only charging people for virtual items that should have been included in an expansion for free but also they've gone and made us pay for game time along with that! One of these has to give and if CCP want to keep this as a game and not just a scam then they should remove the nex store and give people the nex store items as an apology, maybe even make it so they can be manufactured.

Until the Nex Store is gone, CCP are not a games company, they are a business.

They thought the could raise their prices 60% like how CCP thought we'd have no issue with a MT store injected into out MT free game.
You... maybe... ever think one of the main reasons we liked this game was
BECAUSE IT WAS MT FREE?

Are you forced to use the MT store? No? Then have a tantrum somewhere else.

How would you feel if the engine trails had cost 2500 aurum to enable on your account?

Cute novelty account bro!

This game is already pay to win just get you credict card and buy 1000 plexes and you won EVE...

Cute novelty account bro!

I played without them for so long I really didn't care when they were put back in.

EVE is still worth my $15/mo just as it was June 20th.

Morality and ethics are two very distinct concepts,

and you cannot attribute moral profundity to an entertainment product, only to necessities.

Until the Nex Store is gone, CCP are not a games company, they are a business.

Until the Nex Store is gone, CCP are not a games company, they are a business.

With all due respect and I mean with all due respect, that is quite possibly one of the dumbest things I have ever seen written on these forums. Are you saying that games companies aren't businesses??? What are they, some sort of non-profit collective?

They thought the could raise their prices 60% like how CCP thought we'd have no issue with a MT store injected into out MT free game.

I wish I had NetFlix here in Iceland

On the topic of greed: Greed cannot be good as the definition requires excess. Greed is a state of restlessness and it is not to be confused with ambition, necessity or drive. When Ivan Boesky coined the phrase in question he, hopefully, meant to inspire ambition and drive. At least I see no gain from muddling up the definition to include grey areas.
Necessity is amoral. Ambition and drive are good as if taken to extremes they are actually greed.

But yes.. I wish I had NetFlix! That is clearly the main point of this post!