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Invelious
Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2009.07.16 15:45:00 -
[61]
Jadder, thats some history there. In the future. Will you preach of your failures agaisnt the 24IC?
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Tomahawk Bliss
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Posted - 2009.07.16 16:25:00 -
[62]
That was an accurate history, so I don't get your comment?
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Invelious
Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2009.07.16 16:29:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss
That was an accurate history, so I don't get your comment?
You used big lego blocks when you were kid right? I didnt say it was inaccurate, I simply asked if in the future when she provides a history lesson if she will include the failure of stoping the 24th Imperial crusade.
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Tomahawk Bliss
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Posted - 2009.07.16 16:49:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Tomahawk Bliss on 16/07/2009 16:49:25
Originally by: Invelious
Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss
That was an accurate history, so I don't get your comment?
You used big lego blocks when you were kid right? I didnt say it was inaccurate, I simply asked if in the future when she provides a history lesson if she will include the failure of stoping the 24th Imperial crusade.
lego blocks? some Amarrian game perhaps? I had nothing so fancy.
May I ask what failure in stopping the 24th Imperial Crusade you refer to and how it pertains to RKK's ominous joining of the Tribal Militia?
Was Jade suppose to stop the 24th Crusade from doing something in particular or just required to cause the complete collapse of the Amarrian government (not possible)?
ąMaking note of course that the Amarrian empire is the most power and dangerous Empire in the cluster (yeah thats right, I put my money on Amarr over the Jovians!).
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.07.16 16:51:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Invelious Jadder, thats some history there. In the future. Will you preach of your failures agaisnt the 24IC?
From where I sit we're doing pretty well at the moment. We've purged Kamela of the 24th Crusade - driven you like whipped dogs to stage in hisec. We've rained death and destruction on your command and control corps, we've forced your capitals off the field and generally played havoc with your planning and deployment. Wardecced your best and brightest and made them flee and six months into the campaign we're still growing in confidence and capability.
You can't talk your way out of this reality Invelious. At some point you will need to fight.
3rd Forces in FW - discuss! |
Arakidias
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.16 17:55:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Jade Constantine *snip*
No, no, Jade.. what I was pointing out was that Star Fraction surely isn't working for the Minmatar Republic. Or is it?
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Garst Tyrell
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.16 18:32:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Jade Constantine *ignores the rest of the ludicrous claims*
You can't talk your way out of this reality Invelious. At some point you will need to fight.
Drop the "anarchist neutrality" farce already and just join the Republic militia. Youre. Not. Fooling. Anyone.
In the mean time ill glady take sec hits to blow up your faction fit pilgrims (READ: Toys). Im averaging one a day this week, when you come get me make sure to titan bridge a fleet onto the undock tube of the station of whatever system I'm in at the time. Gates are just so inconvenient, you might run into a fight on those. "I long for death, not because I seek peace, but because I seek the war eternal" |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.07.16 18:55:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Garst Tyrell Drop the "anarchist neutrality" farce already and just join the Republic militia. Youre. Not. Fooling. Anyone.
You should learn to read Garst. We made it quite clear to all involved that we are favouring the Tribal Liberation Force over the Amarrian imperialists in this warzone. We have decided that of all the governments in the Star Cluster the Republic under positive influence by the Thukker tribe is most likely to spawn the conditions neccessary for the anarchist Disapora we seek.
Quote: ... when you come get me make sure to titan bridge a fleet onto the undock tube of the station of whatever system I'm in at the time. Gates are just so inconvenient, you might run into a fight on those.
You sound a little bit bitter there? Perhaps running off from gate fights and leaving your comrades to die doesn't win friends and influence people as much as the holy texts tell you?
3rd Forces in FW - discuss! |
Invelious
Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2009.07.16 20:27:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Invelious Jadder, thats some history there. In the future. Will you preach of your failures agaisnt the 24IC?
From where I sit we're doing pretty well at the moment. We've purged Kamela of the 24th Crusade - driven you like whipped dogs to stage in hisec. We've rained death and destruction on your command and control corps, we've forced your capitals off the field and generally played havoc with your planning and deployment. Wardecced your best and brightest and made them flee and six months into the campaign we're still growing in confidence and capability.
You can't talk your way out of this reality Invelious. At some point you will need to fight.
The reality is your still sleeping and need to wake up. We still base out of Kamela, our best corps are still in our militia and if you think sitting your butts in the 24IC station in Kamela is achieving anything then you really need to learn how to wage war because your terrible at it.
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Tomahawk Bliss
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Posted - 2009.07.16 20:48:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Tomahawk Bliss on 16/07/2009 20:49:09
Originally by: Invelious
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Invelious Jadder, thats some history there. In the future. Will you preach of your failures agaisnt the 24IC?
From where I sit we're doing pretty well at the moment. We've purged Kamela of the 24th Crusade - driven you like whipped dogs to stage in hisec. We've rained death and destruction on your command and control corps, we've forced your capitals off the field and generally played havoc with your planning and deployment. Wardecced your best and brightest and made them flee and six months into the campaign we're still growing in confidence and capability.
You can't talk your way out of this reality Invelious. At some point you will need to fight.
The reality is your still sleeping and need to wake up. We still base out of Kamela, our best corps are still in our militia and if you think sitting your butts in the 24IC station in Kamela is achieving anything then you really need to learn how to wage war because your terrible at it.
I respect your strong opinion Invelious but the above quoted contention is absolutely untenable. I get that it was a smack-strike with the intention to present a negative opinion of the enemy, but it turned me off from listening with so much hyperbole.
Specific instances of being camped in Kamela as well what which corps are still based there should be supplied, then a rebuttal could be formulated (as at this point JF are not being station camped in Kamela). Though arguments about who is dominate in Kamela should be made with the caveat that RKKĘs reputation and the presence of the Tribal Liberation fleets may be a large part of the cause.
In my personal experience the 24th does not hold any sway on either the locals of 24th or can exert effective force against its enemies there. Do you contest that this is true? Could I be wrong? Supply some thing coherent to the dialogue. I know I am willing to listen.
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Invelious
Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2009.07.16 21:45:00 -
[71]
In my personal experience the 24th does not hold any sway on either the locals of 24th or can exert effective force against its enemies there. Do you contest that this is true? Could I be wrong? Supply some thing coherent to the dialogue. I know I am willing to listen.
This war has nothing to do with holding sway over locals or the pressence of ships wintin a single system, this is a fight of perpetual motion, always moving and hitting the next war target or plex, no matter how many bodies SF or the enemy puts into a given system it means nothing, because while they are there or here, we are someplace else causing damage.
Seeing as how determining the actual control of the system doesnt reside on POS or Station control we can easily slip in, take what we need (plex) and leave, then come back if we need too (contested systems). So SF boasting about pushing us out of kamela is arbitrary, because once we took back kamela and Kourm we no longer needed to operate out of there, and thus moved else where. So SF, can keep taking credit for "pushing" us out when in theory we had already left long before they showed up after leaving Arzad.
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Tomahawk Bliss
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Posted - 2009.07.16 22:21:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Tomahawk Bliss on 16/07/2009 22:21:22
well stated.
I would counter that over all the conflict has been going towards Star Fraction success when measured against the standard metrics (not systems held but success in battle). But as you said so eloquently, this is a fight of perpetual motion. Of course if one thing can be said for the Star Fraction it is that they are masters of guerilla war.
Also IĘd like to add a point of caution about using what ever metrics you do use to conclude success or failure. Star FractionĘs goals are not even in the same category as traditional forces. It is apples and archo-capital oranges. Apply your own ideas of success and failure at your own risk.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.07.16 22:25:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 16/07/2009 22:26:37
Originally by: Invelious This war has nothing to do with holding sway over locals or the pressence of ships wintin a single system, this is a fight of perpetual motion, always moving and hitting the next war target or plex, no matter how many bodies SF or the enemy puts into a given system it means nothing, because while they are there or here, we are someplace else causing damage.
You are good at running away this is true. But everyone needs to fight sometimes and every time you choose to run and leave your comrades to be slain by us the Amarrian Esprit de corps is damaged. Perhaps you cannot see this damage. Perhaps nobody mentions it to you? But we see it - day by day, steadily eroding your confidence and ability to field fleets. By all means spread yourselves thin with complex domination and become more practised yet in flight and evasion from the mere presence of Star Fraction vessels in local. Clearly these tactics bring pleasure to us both.
Quote: Seeing as how determining the actual control of the system doesnt reside on POS or Station control we can easily slip in, take what we need (plex) and leave, then come back if we need too (contested systems). So SF boasting about pushing us out of kamela is arbitrary, because once we took back kamela ...
Kamela is your home system. It used to be your staging post and members of your militia boasted that you'd never lose a fleet battle in that system. Doubtless things have changed. Still it has been a great morale boost for us to see the once proud crusader corps unrenting their Kamela offices one by one and choosing to base in highsec instead.
Quote: ... and Kourm we no longer needed to operate out of there, and thus moved else where. So SF, can keep taking credit for "pushing" us out when in theory we had already left long before they showed up after leaving Arzad.
Surely one of new eden's greatest sustained coincidences that wherever Star Fraction thinks to apply pressure is a place where the 24th Crusade "no longer needs to be." Many evenings we've seen 24th Crusaders proudly annoucing in local that since SF were controlling space outside there was no need for them to undock!
Mysterious are the ways of war in the Amarrian Empire. But clearly this is one conflict where both sides are extremely happy about the current status
3rd Forces in FW - discuss! |
Invelious
Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2009.07.16 23:28:00 -
[74]
*reads four lines of Jaders recorded comments and pauses the feed*
Why did I just read that. I should have known it it pointless to try to establish anything logical with you.
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Vaarun
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.17 21:03:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Vaarun on 17/07/2009 21:04:51
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Invelious Jadder, thats some history there. In the future. Will you preach of your failures agaisnt the 24IC?
From where I sit we're doing pretty well at the moment. We've purged Kamela of the 24th Crusade - driven you like whipped dogs to stage in hisec. We've rained death and destruction on your command and control corps, we've forced your capitals off the field and generally played havoc with your planning and deployment. Wardecced your best and brightest and made them flee and six months into the campaign we're still growing in confidence and capability.
...and all the while, Siseide still fell. While you may crow over battles won here and there, your "assistance" on behalf of the Minmatar has still cost them a system. By all means, crown yourself with laurels until there are no trees left for winning battles...or at least joining them after most of the fighting has subsided. You'll excuse me if I weigh success by winning a war.
As far as I am concerned, our best and brightest are still here. Tenacity is a trait I value greatly. Who are you referring to?
Why you may see your station camp as driving us into highsec it is no different than changing a comms signal that is saturated with static...annoying, constant static. But the static is only on one channel, so it is easily avoided.
Your impact on our tactical efforts: minimal.
So camp your station, parade your Titan in lowsec, and continue to come fashionably late to significant battles. We will continue to conquer Minmatar lowsec unabated by your efforts...
"To bring order to chaos, one must bring chaos to its knees."
-Vaarun |
Secretary Phase
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Posted - 2009.07.17 21:25:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Vaarun
So camp your station, parade your Titan in lowsec, and continue to come fashionably late to significant battles.
To do them some justice, Claire occasionally manages to pretend participating when she scouts for the Minmatar according to SF combat records.
Honour to whom honour is due.
Best regards
Secretary Phase
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Tomahawk Bliss
Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.07.17 21:38:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Secretary Phase
Honour to whom honour is due.
words to live by
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Secretary Phase
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Posted - 2009.07.17 21:43:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss
Originally by: Secretary Phase
Honour to whom honour is due.
words to live by
Coming from someone who has obviosuly taken sarcasm invulnerabilty courses to the fifth grade, that's a real compliment.
Best regards
Secretary phase
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Tomahawk Bliss
Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.07.17 22:16:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Secretary Phase
Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss
Originally by: Secretary Phase
Honour to whom honour is due.
words to live by
Coming from someone who has obviosuly taken sarcasm invulnerabilty courses to the fifth grade, that's a real compliment.
Best regards
Secretary phase
"Honour to whom honour is due."
that is the key to being honorable; to being of moral caliber; to being professional in the way one comports oneself.
they are words to live by.
you'll note the difference between pilots who understand this and those who are too immature to comprehend respect for a valiant enemy by those who say "gf" after blood and pod juice has been blasted across the system.
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Vaarun
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.17 22:16:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Secretary Phase
Originally by: Vaarun
So camp your station, parade your Titan in lowsec, and continue to come fashionably late to significant battles.
To do them some justice, Claire occasionally manages to pretend participating when she scouts for the Minmatar according to SF combat records.
Honour to whom honour is due.
Best regards
Secretary Phase
Of course there are exceptions to every broad brush I may use to paint my enemies with. I am sure that even within the SF roster there are individual pilots who actually do what Jade seems to think the entire alliance does, but it was not my intention to single-out pilots, just to counter Jade's broad claims with my own broad truths. "To bring order to chaos, one must bring chaos to its knees."
-Vaarun |
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Invelious
Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2009.07.17 22:36:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Invelious on 17/07/2009 22:37:01 Edited by: Invelious on 17/07/2009 22:36:02
Originally by: Vaarun
Originally by: Secretary Phase
Originally by: Vaarun
So camp your station, parade your Titan in lowsec, and continue to come fashionably late to significant battles.
To do them some justice, Claire occasionally manages to pretend participating when she scouts for the Minmatar according to SF combat records.
Honour to whom honour is due.
Best regards
Secretary Phase
Of course there are exceptions to every broad brush I may use to paint my enemies with. I am sure that even within the SF roster there are individual pilots who actually do what Jade seems to think the entire alliance does, but it was not my intention to single-out pilots, just to counter Jade's broad claims with my own broad truths.
A brush is too fine my brother for the likes of Jader, she doesnt understand the finesse and skill of a proper painting. I would recommend a bat or a steal bar and just simply beat the information into her, blunt and to the point is really the best way to go. She seem to understand that better.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.07.17 23:02:00 -
[82]
Its always evident when the 24th Crusade has a bad evening in space - the volume of their IGS boasting goes up a notch.
3rd Forces in FW - discuss! |
Sky Grunthor
Minmatar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Balance of Judgment
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Posted - 2009.07.18 00:56:00 -
[83]
It irks me to say this, but Invelious does have a point. The war is fought and won on the basis of system capture. If the Amarr militia and militia corporations can capture systems better through evasion, then what matters if they lose every confrontation with the honorable SF?
Unfortunately, or fortunately, SF can not actively pursue the war of system capture as they are unaffiliated with the Republic. I suspect they would win such a war if they chose to fight it. However as they are not, they set the standard of victory by the more recognizable one of who wins the majority of engagements.
I find it interesting that this, at the root, is the same argument held by the Caldari/Gallente. That argument is the question on how to judge the progress of war. Is it by system capture or by combat. I believe it is by both. However, as an entity free of nationalist ties, SF can only fight half the war. I would contend they are entirely happy with this. ------------------------------------------------- Search: Sky Grunthor |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.07.18 01:22:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Sky Grunthor It irks me to say this, but Invelious does have a point. The war is fought and won on the basis of system capture. If the Amarr militia and militia corporations can capture systems better through evasion, then what matters if they lose every confrontation with the honorable SF?
Unfortunately, or fortunately, SF can not actively pursue the war of system capture as they are unaffiliated with the Republic. I suspect they would win such a war if they chose to fight it. However as they are not, they set the standard of victory by the more recognizable one of who wins the majority of engagements.
I find it interesting that this, at the root, is the same argument held by the Caldari/Gallente. That argument is the question on how to judge the progress of war. Is it by system capture or by combat. I believe it is by both. However, as an entity free of nationalist ties, SF can only fight half the war. I would contend they are entirely happy with this.
In essence you are entirely correct. All we can do is suppress Amarrian fleets, destabalize their patrols - chase their commanders and generally cause consternation in their ranks. It falls to the Tribal Liberation Force to actually capture and defend the relevant plexes. I think our allies in the TLF will be glad to admit that we have helped them quite a lot in the warzone but nobody will say or claim that we are fighting the war on our own. Its an allied effort. We're content with the way our allies are raising their standards and confronting the 24th Crusade all the harder now - and I think our help will continue to be valuable when we are in a position to give it.
By the by we did say at the beginning of our campaign involvement that we held system status as an important measure of our success or failure in the campaign as a whole. We realize this means that some of our success is dependent on the achievements of others in actions we can only influence not control - but such are the vagaries of war sometimes.
Still we fight the way we can fight and we'll keep fighting to support our allies. At the last thats all anyone can or should expect.
3rd Forces in FW - discuss! |
Atraxerxes
Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit Balance of Judgment
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Posted - 2009.07.18 04:16:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Sky Grunthor
That argument is the question on how to judge the progress of war. Is it by system capture or by combat? I believe it is by both.
I have to say, I believe it to be both as well, but pilots need to make the distinction between winning battles and winning the war.
If you can't hold the field 23/7, or at least deter your enemy from operating there 23/7, than you have not really won anything.
AX
Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed resolution of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. -Weatherman |
Anneka Tong
B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm
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Posted - 2009.07.18 08:44:00 -
[86]
what is this page all about?
I want to hear about Reikoku's adventures, not yet another Star Fraction argument, for there are enough of those already.
I like genetic engineering Past projects: The Radioactive Sheep Current project: Cybercow |
Grimster
Reikoku
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Posted - 2009.07.20 12:49:00 -
[87]
It has long been my wish to fight on the side of my brothers and sisters in the Republic and now we have been given the opportunity I personally will be grasping it with both hands.
Respect to all our allies in this worthy struggle, to the rest, see you in space.
_______________________________
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lucifers widow
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Posted - 2009.07.20 15:38:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
In essence you are entirely correct. All we can do is suppress Amarrian fleets, destabalize their patrols - chase their commanders and generally cause consternation in their ranks.
Rubbish, you could do so much more if you in fact cared for you're so called "allies".
You could in fact front up and join them to fight a war with pride and honour instead of chestbeating on Kam station, occasionaly heading to either Lamaa or Kourm gates before returning to the safety of the station undock.
The truth is you pick off an odd target within the Amarr militia fleet as you only pick out a couple of loyalist corps to war dec at a time instead of joining the Matar and actually having a chance at effecting the war. The simple fact is yes the rallying point is no longer in Kamela, big deal it's either next door to Kam where it still flies through the system without interuption or in most cases forms a lot closer to the front and the battles that matter.
So come on out on the side of the Min militia instead of turning every thread into an attention seeking exercise in self promotion and ego boosting and actually effect the war instead of picking out the odd target here and there, cause atm you sure as hell are not helping the ones you claim, you are busy hiding under kam station and spewing a load of crap on the forums.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.07.20 15:46:00 -
[89]
Originally by: lucifers widow So come on out on the side of the Min militia instead of turning every thread into an attention seeking exercise in self promotion and ego boosting and actually effect the war instead of picking out the odd target here and there, cause atm you sure as hell are not helping the ones you claim, you are busy hiding under kam station and spewing a load of crap on the forums.
Be silent you cowardly dog. Nobody is interested in ranting from a person too cowardly to post on IGS with their combat pilot.
3rd Forces in FW - discuss! |
Invelious
Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2009.07.20 16:11:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: lucifers widow So come on out on the side of the Min militia instead of turning every thread into an attention seeking exercise in self promotion and ego boosting and actually effect the war instead of picking out the odd target here and there, cause atm you sure as hell are not helping the ones you claim, you are busy hiding under kam station and spewing a load of crap on the forums.
Be silent you cowardly dog. Nobody is interested in ranting from a person too cowardly to post on IGS with their combat pilot.
Jadder that seems to be your response everytime someone calls you out on not doing squat all for your allies
"Be silent you cowardly dog" followed by how weak they are or because they are speaking without displaying the corp they belong too. Does it hurt you when your wrong and you dont have a valid response?
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