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Kayscha
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Posted - 2009.06.28 23:02:00 -
[1]
Ran this in F&I for a couple weeks, implemented reservations/possible drawbacks. Now let's see who can support this.
Tldr:
Provide some ship customization with limited colour schemes and corp/alliance logos.
Prelude:
The call for options to customize one's ship as every player's primary in-game representation has been heard since the very first days of EVE. Even now, suggestions for this still pop up in the relevant sections of these forums every few days.
So far, discussion of the issue has suffered from unrealistic expectations by its enthusiatic supporters and rather elitist contempt by its detractors.
It is believed that a well-considered, evenly worded proposal will garner more universal support and a better basis for consideration by the CSM and CCP.
Issue:
Even once Walking in Stations goes life, most players will continue spending the majority of their EVE lifes in space, surrounded by their capsules and, beyond, the hulls of their ships. It is believed that their social and fictional experience would profit from the possibility to influence the looks of that spaceship and thus some form of individual expression in the game world.
While there are a variety of ships to choose from, practical considerations usually decide which ships players will fly. Some simple options for customization on any ship class would satisfy most players' desire to show some extra personality, attitude or allegiance.
Proposed solution:
1. Logos
- Every ship hull will feature two prominent spaces for their alliance (or empire) logo.
- Every ship hull will further feature two smaller spaces for their corporation logo.
- Ship holder decides for each logo to be displayed or not.
- Display of logos can be globally switched on or off client-wise.
- Loading of logos has lowest priority - they load last, and not at all if a node is under strain.
2. Colour schemes:
- Ship manufacturers can choose from a small (3 to 5) selection of 2-colour schemes to produce their ships with at no extra cost.
- Each of the two colours can further be determined from an 8-bit palette.
- Ship owners could re-colour ships at station services for a fee.
- Ship colour scheme/colours ('colour template') can be saved and traded similar to setups to create alliance/corporation/individual look.
- Display of non-default ship colours can be switched on or off globally by every player client-wise.
- Colour information has lowest priority - it loads last, or not at all if node is under any strain.
3. Info tab extension
- Info tab shows manufacturer (individual + corp + alliance at the time of production)
Advantages:
- Need for self-expression in space is satisfied.
- Solution is resource-friendly, needing only 15bit of information per ship from the server.
- Colour schemes prevent horrible eyesores by limiting creativity sensibly and leaving shaders/normal maps/etc. (representing hull structure/material) intact.
- Alliances can sport uniform fleets.
- Manufacturers can leave a stamp (of quality, hopefully) on their products.
Disadvantages:
- Alliance logos are not currently up to date.
- Tranquility will need to save and process a small amount of extra information.
- Logo placement, colour schemes, colouring interface need to be designed.
- Some players may find some customizations unpleasant/offensive/not as good as the originals.
- Some T2/faction ships only differ from their t1 counterparts by colour scheme. Differentiation must remain possible visually. (ty Fille)
- Daring colourists will find themselves ridiculed by the PVP elite for being little girls playing dress-up with spaceships.
- Manufacturers' stamps will only work for contracts, not for sale on general market, as items there must be identical for every type. (ty Ausser)
- Metadata/'magic bits' will probably still blow up database load for colour scheme information more than intended. (ty Ausser)
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Kayscha
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Posted - 2009.06.28 23:03:00 -
[2]
Convincing arguments.
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Kaylan Jahlar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.06.28 23:20:00 -
[3]
Repost... This has been suggested many many many times already. No need for another post for this. |
Kayscha
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Posted - 2009.06.28 23:44:00 -
[4]
Not at all. Previous proposals have not been successful. Maybe they were not good enough to garner sufficient support. I see no use raising any from their graves.
My proposal is hopefully more well-considered, balanced, eloquent, detailed and clear. If it isn't, it'll be drowned by torrents of equally unfortunate suggestions in no time and swept from your dismissing gaze to page 27 of this section. |
De'Veldrin
Special Projects Executive
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Posted - 2009.06.29 00:13:00 -
[5]
Actually I like the proposal. I've always been a fan of the idea of being able to color all or part of our ship hulls, and I definitely like the idea of corp and alliance logos on them.
Your proposal to have these colors and logos load last under load is sensible - this keeps large fleet battles from lagging (more than they do already). To this I would add the suggestion that logos cache so they don't have to be reloaded if the client already has them.
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XHolyAvengerX
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Posted - 2009.06.29 00:14:00 -
[6]
Supported. I for one would like a bit more personality in ships. |
El Smol
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Posted - 2009.06.29 02:02:00 -
[7]
Edited by: El Smol on 29/06/2009 02:02:40
+1 from me. |
Lenasha
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Posted - 2009.06.29 02:08:00 -
[8]
ok |
Sobon
Phantom Squad
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Posted - 2009.06.29 04:03:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Sobon on 29/06/2009 04:05:43
I'd like it if you could opt as to which logo went where (Corp in the 'big' slot and the like) a lot of people associate more with their corp then a larger entity.
*EDIT*
Forgot my thumb.
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TQ Server Status: "BLACK HAWK ____"
Does this mean we can expect down time in the near future? |
Orb Vex
R.U.R.
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Posted - 2009.06.29 07:37:00 -
[10]
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Davlos
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.06.29 12:52:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Davlos on 29/06/2009 12:58:42
Nay.
As much as the server hardware for this game have been very impressively stable thus far, I'm not going to support any initiative that is going to strive towards putting more stress and strain on the network and hardware.
I am also, speaking from the perspective of a roleplayer who may have the most reason, and/or cause to support something like this. But for the greater interest, no thanks.
Furthermore, for all practical purposes, when I want to shoot at someone, it's mostly zoomed out anyway. All manner of noticed 'personalisation' is a) your name b) your shiptype c) your relative veolicty d) your loot and fittings.
I'm not going to be impressed with how you're going to express your sexual orientation with how pink your ship is.
So, once more.
Nay.
edit: Furthermore, endorsing your own proposal = fail. It doesn't speak well for your confidence in what you proposed.
---
 Originally by: Revan Neferis
Scientific category of gravitation fields and velocity is force....
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Aphoxakhan
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.06.29 17:41:00 -
[12]
I heartily endorse this product and/or service.
I would like to see this opt-in only, that would reduce the strain quite a bit. Under high loads the server and client should neglect the extra information, prioritizing the normal information.
Regardless, this addition would take a substantial amount of effort to implement and I would sooner like to see Ambulation take off.
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http://podlogs.com/aphoxakhan/ |
jemos
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Posted - 2009.06.29 17:49:00 -
[13]
As I see this, the main problem will be loading the textures. And the man hours put into accually finding them places for the logos. Don't discurage, I think this idea Is totaly awesome =)
Someone mentioned that throwing the logos into the client. This is a rather smart idea, as it would also let CCP control when the logos is realeased/approving them. CCP does regular patches, they could be realeased with these patches. However, I think there should be some costs added since this will take manhours away from CCP.
Another issue is the logo it self. Most gallente ships are gray/some greenish colour and the minmatarian are red/rust to blakish. Should a logo accually be glued onto the ship with epoxy?
Point is, that a logo sitting on gallente ship x&y, just may not accually fit on minmatar x&y.
I'd like to see this idTa introduced. Damn, I can almost sign my self up to work the graphics to make this work!
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Kaito Haakkainen
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Posted - 2009.06.29 18:29:00 -
[14]
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Oam Mkoll
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.29 19:14:00 -
[15]
---
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Uronksur Suth
Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.06.29 21:21:00 -
[16]
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Arkzin anion
Star Surfers
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Posted - 2009.06.30 02:43:00 -
[17]
I would welcome this. some ships could use a lil flare.. as for the logos I do not think they are needed. Many ships already have their faction logo on them if you look hard enough.. I know my hyper and legion do. The idea to give a choice of color schemes whould be nice though.
~Ari~ |
drmurda
Arkons of Myth
Aggression.
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Posted - 2009.06.30 04:42:00 -
[18]
Suported,- "anyone who dosint support is to poor to afford a comp with good specs"  |
Yahrr
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2009.06.30 07:49:00 -
[19]
I wanted to reply and to support but I made a new topic :D
Anyway, this idea got my support, just like last time.
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Enden Assulu
Caldari
Blood Money Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.30 20:24:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Enden Assulu on 30/06/2009 20:37:15
Originally by: Davlos
Nay.
I agree with this, the idea is super old and the additional server load would indeed be tragic. I also think that the need to personalise your ship is not really in keeping with eves military themes.
Click the image! |
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Maxsim Goratiev
Imperial Tau Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.06.30 21:02:00 -
[21]
Full support
We should be able to choose our hips colour cheme from few pre-defined layouts, many games have that option. Would barely add serverload, if they whant to decrease serverload they should crash mothership into jita station. 
Fix Destroyers |
Solo Player
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Posted - 2009.07.02 23:14:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Solo Player on 02/07/2009 23:15:26
oops.
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Kayscha
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Posted - 2009.07.02 23:16:00 -
[23]
Thank you for your support. Needs some more, I'm afraid, in order to attract the attention of the powers that be, though.
Let me address some of the comments I've heard:
Quote:
As much as the server hardware for this game have been very impressively stable thus far, I'm not going to support any initiative that is going to strive towards putting more stress and strain on the network and hardware.
The extra stress will be small, both in absolute and in relative terms. Almost any conceivable additional feature (rig sizes? loyalty point bounties?) will add at least a comparable amount of strain.
Quote:
Furthermore, endorsing your own proposal = fail. It doesn't speak well for your confidence in what you proposed.
That's like saying a marketing campaign for a new product = fail because it didn't speak well for your confidence in your product. It adds a tiny bit of weight to my message and hardly cramps my style (certainly less than for those CSM candidates who voted for themselves ;) ), so it is well worth it.
Quote:
stuff about transmitting logos
Corp and alliance logos are loaded once and then stored locally on the client. They would naturally load only at very low priority, and shouldn't cause much lag as they are not sent from the node and your own internet bandwidth should not be a lag issue anyway.
Quote:
I also think that the need to personalise your ship is not really in keeping with eves military themes.
Odd, that. My Eve was never military-themed. Corporate and dark sci-fi, yes, but military? Hardly.
Besides that, whether corporate or military, uniforms, logos and colours are all considered very important.
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Erik Finnegan
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Posted - 2009.07.04 08:27:00 -
[24]
Thank you for this well-thought proposal, Kayscha, and notifying me of your post. You have mentioned yourself that this desire has a long-reaching history. A history, which I am not all aware of now myself. I would appreciate if you could add some links to related posts / dev blogs if you find the time to search for them. And let me check back with the other CSMs before actually bringing it up in a meeting for vote.
The last time I remember hearing CCP comment on it was in the video casts of Fan Fest 2008, where they raised the artistic challenge (must fit with the overall EVE concept art) and the ship remodelling dev effort required to find and create suitable spaces to put the logos onto.
I will follow up on this. Please stand by...
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Nico Minoru
Weird Cat Research
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Posted - 2009.07.04 16:00:00 -
[25]
sry for not reading the entire wall of text but the title and first couple para's were well worth voting for. bsidez, i'm on a voting rampage.
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Mahai Ano
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.07.04 16:06:00 -
[26]
+1
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Bunzan Cardinal
Ouroboros Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.07.04 20:32:00 -
[27]
supported.
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Kayscha
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Posted - 2009.07.05 00:59:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Kayscha on 05/07/2009 01:01:52
Originally by: Erik Finnegan
I would appreciate if you could add some links to related posts / dev blogs if you find the time to search for them.
Gladly. Some recent ones...
1
2
3
4
...a couple older ones...
5
6
7
...and some of the earliest...
8
9
There are hundreds - just check eve-search for ship and paint.
Interesting to see that the very feature was live in beta at some point. c/d anyone?
Also, I'd really be keen on seeing first hand some of those dev comments on the matter that everyone is alluding to. I really can't find any of them. Myth?
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Zeredek
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Posted - 2009.07.05 19:48:00 -
[29]
Supportage :D
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Wu Jiaqiu
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2009.07.06 01:18:00 -
[30]
Not supported.
EVE is already colorful enough as it is with its colored ammo and rainbowlaz0rs
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Kayscha
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Posted - 2009.07.06 21:49:00 -
[31]
In that case it is clearly in your best interest to support this proposal. Paint your ships in shades of black and enjoy fewer colours on your display.
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Kragtast
Gallente
Maximum Dynamic
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Posted - 2009.07.07 03:20:00 -
[32]
I don't know, I kind of like the idea.
Yes, there'll obviously be a small number of idiots who'll purposefully color their ships fluorescent to **** people off.
There might even be a few people that do it to amuse themselves. The color palettes, if implemented, should retain the basic gritty and militarianistic shades they already retain. As for the Tech II problem, I figure we could always keep a distinguishing color for them (already implemented) that can't be changed, that won't be avaliable in their counterparts.
I especially like the idea of corporation / alliance logos. If nothing else, implement these for the pure novelty and, shall we say, inherent pride that comes with flying your flag.
I like it.
_______________________________________________________________
Bigger ships only count as overcompensation while he's still alive. |
Kragtast
Gallente
Maximum Dynamic
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Posted - 2009.07.07 03:25:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Wu Jiaqiu
Not supported.
EVE is already colorful enough as it is with its colored ammo and rainbowlaz0rs
Wait, where the hell is this ammo?!
I want to shoot different types from each of my 7 guns....
_______________________________________________________________
Bigger ships only count as overcompensation while he's still alive. |
Yakius Warkar
Minmatar Industrial Limited
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Posted - 2009.07.07 05:46:00 -
[34]
cool idea.
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Crewman Jenkins
Malicious Demi-Lancers
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Posted - 2009.07.07 08:56:00 -
[35]
I very much like the idea. I think different designs on ships per individual taste fits perfectly into the capsuleer's merc/individual mindset.
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Robot Robot
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Posted - 2009.07.07 14:11:00 -
[36]
heartily support.
and to those decrying lag and server strain, recall the part where hundreds of corporation logos are already being transmitted to your client by the server all the time. And that the proposed information can be easily encoded in 16 bits per ship. in a large fleet battle, we are talk about ONE maybe TWO kB of data. As the OP says, almost any other conceivable added gameplay feature would create more overhead than this. If even this amount is unacceptable, then trimming the proposal down to just the alliance/corp logos could be encoded in two bits per ship.
as per the client side lag, just turn the feature off if you have problems. many of us, even with older hardware, can run eve just fine with decent graphics setting 99% of the time.
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Vizth Hal
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Posted - 2009.07.07 18:46:00 -
[37]
You got my vote, it;s boring seeing everyone flying identical ships.
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Hailey Sunweaver
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Posted - 2009.07.07 21:25:00 -
[38]
I think minor customization is a good thing makes things more intresting.
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Vyanr
Professors On Steriods
DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2009.07.07 22:38:00 -
[39]
Totally for this!
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Tortugan
Internal Anarchy
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Posted - 2009.07.07 22:40:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Tortugan on 07/07/2009 22:40:53
Supported on the pretense that lag management should come first. This is something CCP should keep in their back pocket for a later update when they've gotten to the point where they can consistently manage the lag from new players and old bugs, as this would only add to it.
P.S. Also only supported if I can have a Navy Mega purple with pink polkadots.
----
Need Mercenaries? Contact me in-game to hire Internal Anarchy.
Killboard |
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Kragtast
Gallente
Maximum Dynamic
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Posted - 2009.07.08 18:18:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Tortugan
Edited by: Tortugan on 07/07/2009 22:40:53
Supported on the pretense that lag management should come first. This is something CCP should keep in their back pocket for a later update when they've gotten to the point where they can consistently manage the lag from new players and old bugs, as this would only add to it.
P.S. Also only supported if I can have a Navy Mega purple with pink polkadots.
Y'know how some people are just magnets for pirates and lowsec bombers?
This won't help your chances 
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Bigger ships only count as overcompensation while he's still alive. |
Galandrius Malkin
Crystal Dynamics
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.07.08 19:08:00 -
[42]
I support this, it's the most thoughtful and realistic solution to date.
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Lladar
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Posted - 2009.07.08 19:32:00 -
[43]
I honestly don't see why someone wouldn't like this idea. I have done a lot of programming in the last 20yrs and I know that this rather simple, and non hardware intensive idea, would be a great implement for the game. Seeing as how corporate logos are already textured in the game it can easily be stamped on a ship... so there is little problem at all. In fact just take the same system EVE uses to make logos for Corps and use it to customize ships. Why this hasn't been done before I will never know... And anyone that says nay to this is simply just being the devils advocate... If you would rather keep your ship plain than so be it but for everyone else we would like to see this customization take place soon.
If it wasn't obvious before I completely endorse this idea.
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Rip Minner
Gallente
Freewind Ventures
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Posted - 2009.07.08 19:58:00 -
[44]
Got my vote god knows I'm sick of looking at the same ship skins all the freaking time.
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AnimeHeretic
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Posted - 2009.07.09 04:10:00 -
[45]
You got my support. I've always wanted to be able to identify someone by their paint job.
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Vero Null
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Posted - 2009.07.09 07:34:00 -
[46]
Supported. It would be nice to customize things a bit.
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Ankhesentapemkah
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.07.09 10:18:00 -
[47]
Eve ships already have colors applied to them (the basic textures are grey-ish, so the blue parts of a megathron and yellow parts of a kronos are 'painted' as they use the same textures).
Since there is no server load for loading corp logos (they're stored clientside), all it needs it a few extra bits per ship and some slight effort from the art department to assign the appropriate spots.
I don't understand why this hasn't been done already, tbh. Every MMO out there allows to display 'guild' logos and most of them allow you to paint/dye your stuff.
---
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hired goon
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Posted - 2009.07.09 19:58:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Kayscha
Advantages:
- Need for self-expression in space is satisfied.
Your need isn't everyone's need.
Originally by: Kayscha
- Some players may find some customizations unpleasant/offensive/not as good as the originals.
You think? See the 'bring back old cyno effect' petition for a small idea of how unpopular aesthetic deviance can be. DO NOT underestimate the players love for Eve's darker and more mature art. Otherwise we'd all be playing WoW (or some variant)
Seeing the beautiful ships of eve suddenly transformed into rainbow-coloured Earth & Beyond style childs toys one day is a horribly disgusting thought and I'd like to avoid it.
Please try as hard as you can to imagine a little thumbs-down underneath my portrait.
-omg-
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Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente
Imperial Tau Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.07.09 20:03:00 -
[49]
Quote:
Seeing the beautiful ships of eve suddenly transformed into rainbow-coloured Earth & Beyond style childs toys one day is a horribly disgusting thought and I'd like to avoid it.
If i whant to colour my ship into rainbow, that's my problem.
Fix Destroyers |
hired goon
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Posted - 2009.07.09 20:50:00 -
[50]
Not if I'm the one who has to look at it, ace.
-omg-
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Kragtast
Gallente
Maximum Dynamic
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Posted - 2009.07.10 05:08:00 -
[51]
Originally by: hired goon
Not if I'm the one who has to look at it, ace.
Thats what PvP is for.
CCP wouldn't ruin the dark gothic grungy coloring and atmosphere of EVE, even if they did consider this idea the option for hot pink ships would be the first one to hit the wastebasket. Color choices would probably still conform to the entirety of EVE as a gaming experience, meaning they won't be over the top and stupid.
_______________________________________________________________
Bigger ships only count as overcompensation while he's still alive. |
Aura Mega
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Posted - 2009.07.10 12:00:00 -
[52]
i Wanna put flames on my vaga  |
anidaG
Gallente
0utbreak
KrautbreaK
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Posted - 2009.07.10 14:40:00 -
[53]
Although this idea is interesting. But few technical issues:
If you have ships painted differently and have different names of makers of them - how can you repackage them, make a stack and put a sell order of like 10 of them on the market in one single sell order?
If this idea goes through, it would be good if in eve settings there would be an option of turning off those logos/additional colours, so that the lag in fleet battle is rediced.
But overall, of course the idea of painting ships your way, having pretty corp/alliance logo and makerstamps on items would be good, if those technical 'buts' are dealt with :)
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Feliaria
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Posted - 2009.07.11 02:30:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Feliaria on 11/07/2009 02:33:10
Edited by: Feliaria on 11/07/2009 02:32:49
Edited by: Feliaria on 11/07/2009 02:31:43
- Solution is resource-friendly, needing only 15bit of information per ship from the server.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What if you have a slow computer
I myself Like this ida, but my computer's slow as Hell.
I'm in for this one though
Brillient idea!
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Benjamin Shepherd
Paramount Inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.17 01:52:00 -
[55]
I agree. This is needed, specifically with the corporation / alliance logos and manufacturing "stamps".
Just looking to make ISK and make it big in this capitalist world we call New Eden. |
Felix Mibaz
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Posted - 2009.07.17 06:22:00 -
[56]
I don't support the idea of having personalization. It seem cool, but at the end of the day...
Having another issue for the client/servers to figure out before going into a major engagement, jumping through gates etc etc, just seems like a larger problem than anything it could bring into the game.
And I'm pretty sure there will be some ways to custimize things once Amb. is fully deployed, for people to go crazy with.
Leave teh ships alone.
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Gaven's Bihotch
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Posted - 2009.07.22 07:15:00 -
[57]
As much as I would like it, and it would be pretty cool, I can think of 2 reasons this would be a problem.
1.) T1/T2/Faction ships. How are you going to tell them apart? I can imagine clicking on tem and being able to see the mini portrait as original colors would work to an extent, but it would add to a lot of confusion.
2.) sever load? I really don't know if this would be an issue or not, but preloaded and cached ship models probably boost overall speed a bit, and this seems like it might add a little work when you consider people are in ships a fair bit of their in game time.
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Twilight Magester
Foundation
Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.07.22 07:59:00 -
[58]
I like the idea of "opt in" so if I want my spaceship game to have everyone in the same ship look the same I can.
What I would rather not see (but what some people want) is Ship + MSpaint = Penz0rWessle
Templates is a good idea, colours should be rather subdued though. I fear some people may parade around the galaxy in hot pink cruisers that make eyes bleed just to make points.
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Draco Carollis
Pacific Starfleet Command
Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2009.07.22 08:45:00 -
[59]
I like the idea. Maybe not full customisation immediately, but certainly extra skins for the ships would be very nice.
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Amasai
Starfire Oasis
Thalion Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.07.24 09:04:00 -
[60]
this is what a truly well thought out and balanced idea will get you, majority of praise and approval out of those that respond
at least this is mostly true in eve
supported |
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