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SFX Bladerunner Minmatar Black Serpent Technologies	Posted - 2009.06.30 14:11:00 - [31] Originally by: Duke Starbuckington Originally by: SFX Bladerunner AF's aren't really supposed to be fleet tackle ships.. there's better shipclasses for that role. For solo and/or small fast roaming I usually prefer the Wolf over the Jaguar. Jaguar is better capable at tackling.. but I'm not really bothered with that Wolf with 2 gyros and 200mm autocannons with RF emp/T2 ammo EATS through ANYTHING. I went 1 on 1 vs an alliance mate's gallente AF (the drone wielding thingymajig) and I completely eradicated his shield and started downing his armor before he was even able to launch his drones. Afterwards I told him he could probably have beat me after he sent his drones on me.. but he told me in all honesty that if he saw his hitpoints vanish like that so fast in an actual hostile 1 on 1 he'd ** his pants and warp off and probably abandon his drones too Yes they are they're heavy tacklers, wtf else are you gonna use em for. You wanna solo? pick a good BC or HAC. ASSAULT** ship 'nuff said. __________________________________________________ History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever..
Duke Starbuckington	Posted - 2009.06.30 14:12:00 - [32] Originally by: SFX Bladerunner Originally by: Duke Starbuckington Originally by: SFX Bladerunner AF's aren't really supposed to be fleet tackle ships.. there's better shipclasses for that role. For solo and/or small fast roaming I usually prefer the Wolf over the Jaguar. Jaguar is better capable at tackling.. but I'm not really bothered with that Wolf with 2 gyros and 200mm autocannons with RF emp/T2 ammo EATS through ANYTHING. I went 1 on 1 vs an alliance mate's gallente AF (the drone wielding thingymajig) and I completely eradicated his shield and started downing his armor before he was even able to launch his drones. Afterwards I told him he could probably have beat me after he sent his drones on me.. but he told me in all honesty that if he saw his hitpoints vanish like that so fast in an actual hostile 1 on 1 he'd ** his pants and warp off and probably abandon his drones too Yes they are they're heavy tacklers, wtf else are you gonna use em for. You wanna solo? pick a good BC or HAC. ASSAULT** ship 'nuff said. Hurr durr lets look at the ship class names and ignore everything else. If that were true all i'd fly would be destroyers. (Oh wait they're pretty much only useful as salvage ships.)
SFX Bladerunner Minmatar Black Serpent Technologies	Posted - 2009.06.30 14:16:00 - [33] Originally by: Duke Starbuckington Originally by: SFX Bladerunner Originally by: Duke Starbuckington Originally by: SFX Bladerunner AF's aren't really supposed to be fleet tackle ships.. there's better shipclasses for that role. For solo and/or small fast roaming I usually prefer the Wolf over the Jaguar. Jaguar is better capable at tackling.. but I'm not really bothered with that Wolf with 2 gyros and 200mm autocannons with RF emp/T2 ammo EATS through ANYTHING. I went 1 on 1 vs an alliance mate's gallente AF (the drone wielding thingymajig) and I completely eradicated his shield and started downing his armor before he was even able to launch his drones. Afterwards I told him he could probably have beat me after he sent his drones on me.. but he told me in all honesty that if he saw his hitpoints vanish like that so fast in an actual hostile 1 on 1 he'd ** his pants and warp off and probably abandon his drones too Yes they are they're heavy tacklers, wtf else are you gonna use em for. You wanna solo? pick a good BC or HAC. ASSAULT** ship 'nuff said. Hurr durr lets look at the ship class names and ignore everything else. If that were true all i'd fly would be destroyers. (Oh wait they're pretty much only useful as salvage ships.) Good point. However assault frigate class ships ALL (or most, dunno, tbh I dont really care bout non-minmatar ships) have damage bonusses, not tackling bonusses Sure you could concider the Jaguar to be a tackler that is slightly slower than an interceptor but with better EHP and more damage (still not GREAT or anything mind you) but then you'd just be mediocre in 2 fields. I'd rather have one dedicated best tackler and one dedicated best damage dealer than have 2 ships that do both but less effectively. __________________________________________________ History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever..
Jodi Goulsti	Posted - 2009.06.30 14:20:00 - [34] Originally by: Duke Starbuckington Hurr durr lets look at the ship class names and ignore everything else. If that were true all i'd fly would be destroyers. (Oh wait they're pretty much only useful as salvage ships.) Yeah, because Thrashers really suck at killing T1 and T2 frigates.
Duke Starbuckington	Posted - 2009.06.30 14:20:00 - [35] Originally by: SFX Bladerunner Good point. However assault frigate class ships ALL (or most, dunno, tbh I dont really care bout non-minmatar ships) have damage bonusses, not tackling bonusses Sure you could concider the Jaguar to be a tackler that is slightly slower than an interceptor but with better EHP and more damage (still not GREAT or anything mind you) but then you'd just be mediocre in 2 fields. I'd rather have one dedicated best tackler and one dedicated best damage dealer than have 2 ships that do both but less effectively. They aren't damage ships, the bonuses mean ** all, at the very least that means heavy tackler and** enemy frigate remover. If you want to bring damage to a gang, bring a ship that is actually going to do damage. (again BC or HAC) The only frigate hull that's designed for damage are stealth bombers.
Duke Starbuckington	Posted - 2009.06.30 14:22:00 - [36] Originally by: Jodi Goulsti Originally by: Duke Starbuckington Hurr durr lets look at the ship class names and ignore everything else. If that were true all i'd fly would be destroyers. (Oh wait they're pretty much only useful as salvage ships.) Yeah, because Thrashers really suck at killing T1 and T2 frigates. (well done at missing the point) but even then i'd use a vaga over a thrasher.
Venarator Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.06.30 14:24:00 - [37] Originally by: Duke Starbuckington Originally by: Jodi Goulsti Originally by: Duke Starbuckington Hurr durr lets look at the ship class names and ignore everything else. If that were true all i'd fly would be destroyers. (Oh wait they're pretty much only useful as salvage ships.) Yeah, because Thrashers really suck at killing T1 and T2 frigates. (well done at missing the point) but even then i'd use a vaga over a thrasher. I'd use 130 thrashers over a vaga but since price isn't an issue I'd just use a titan.
Duke Starbuckington	Posted - 2009.06.30 14:29:00 - [38] Originally by: Venarator Originally by: Duke Starbuckington Originally by: Jodi Goulsti Originally by: Duke Starbuckington Hurr durr lets look at the ship class names and ignore everything else. If that were true all i'd fly would be destroyers. (Oh wait they're pretty much only useful as salvage ships.) Yeah, because Thrashers really suck at killing T1 and T2 frigates. (well done at missing the point) but even then i'd use a vaga over a thrasher. I'd use 130 thrashers over a vaga but since price isn't an issue I'd just use a titan. You'd buy 130 thrashers that have a tiny role and die incredibly easily just so you can remove frigates in a fleet rather than buying one vagabond, and do the same role (better) and more... go ahead.
Venarator Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.06.30 14:37:00 - [39] Originally by: Duke Starbuckington You'd buy 130 thrashers that have a tiny role and die incredibly easily just so you can remove frigates in a fleet rather than buying one vagabond, and do the same role (better) and more... go ahead. Now ur missing the point, also my 130 thrashers would alpha ur vaga :)
Duke Starbuckington	Posted - 2009.06.30 14:38:00 - [40] Originally by: Venarator Originally by: Duke Starbuckington You'd buy 130 thrashers that have a tiny role and die incredibly easily just so you can remove frigates in a fleet rather than buying one vagabond, and do the same role (better) and more... go ahead. Now ur missing the point, also my 130 thrashers would alpha ur vaga :) No you're missing my point, 1 pilot can't fly 130 thrashers.
Venarator Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.06.30 14:42:00 - [41] Nope u said thrashers suck, and yes as a solo roamer they fall slightly short of a vaga but can't really be compared to one now can they?
Duke Starbuckington	Posted - 2009.06.30 14:59:00 - [42] Edited by: Duke Starbuckington on 30/06/2009 15:01:18 Originally by: Venarator Nope u said thrashers suck, and yes as a solo roamer they fall slightly short of a vaga but can't really be compared to one now can they? My point was thrashers suck, so bring a ship that doesn't or else you're just wasting a pilot. 130 thrashers will do quite a bit of alpha on a single ship but this doesn't matter because if you have 130 pilots sticking them all in destroyers is moronic because you will pretty much always do better with a non sucky ship class. If you limit your pilots to bad ships you will be kicking yourself because you know you could have done better. e.g. my original point of assault ships not being dps, if you happen to bring too many assault frigs and find yourself lacking dps during an engagement you'll wish you'd swapped one out for a ship that actually DOES do dps.
Orakkus Minmatar m3 Corp Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.06.30 16:00:00 - [43] Originally by: Tezalsh Thankyou very much for the advice. So Orakkus your saying that Assult Frigates are best acompned by another Assult Frigate or ship? If I was to train two characters to an assult frigate, my best bet overall would be Ishkur for one character, and Jag or Wolf for the other Char, or perhaps train both into Minmatar AF, and fly both a Jag and a Wolf. I have yet to fly an AF in a paired formation, so I can't give you a "best" answer. It just seems to me that the way CCP gave the AFs attributes so that they could compliment each other in combat (i.e. Jags with Wolves, Vengences with Retributions, etc) in theory. However, in practical application, I think you be best served with just two good AF pilots in whatever good AF they wanna fly. Two is always better than one in combat, but its up to your own skill how well you fly two.. or even one ship. I only do diplomancy because I haven't found you.. yet.
heheheh PedoHamma	Posted - 2009.06.30 16:16:00 - [44] Ishkur is the best Jag for tank Wolf for gank
Essence Praetor Retribution. Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.30 16:37:00 - [45] Req epic hawk fit...... (insert here) I'd like to see how it out performs the Harpy at every possible turn
Shadowfoot Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit Balance of Judgment	Posted - 2009.06.30 18:04:00 - [46] Harpy is the best IMO. I have flown it for a while now out in 00 and have had good results. This is the fit I use [Harpy, Blarpy] Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 1MN Afterburner I Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Medium Shield Extender I Light Electron Blaster II, Void S Light Electron Blaster II, Void S Light Electron Blaster II, Void S Light Electron Blaster II, Void S Small Energy Neutralizer II Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I 198 dps at lvl V Cap lasts 1 minute 30 seconds EHP of 9k This ship is very tough and can solo any inty or AF (except a smart ishkur pilot). The neut is VERY important against inties and active tankers. <img src="http://sigs.griefwatch.net/index.php?kb=22ND&name=Shadowfoot&template=stargaze">
Johnny Ringo Noir.	Posted - 2009.06.30 18:11:00 - [47] Not really solo, but some of the most fun I've had in Eve is sitting in a sniper Harpy 100km from a gate fight and picking off pods. Great lolz.
Duke Starbuckington	Posted - 2009.06.30 18:15:00 - [48] Originally by: Shadowfoot Harpy is the best IMO. I have flown it for a while now out in 00 and have had good results. This is the fit I use [Harpy, Blarpy] Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 1MN Afterburner I Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Medium Shield Extender I Light Electron Blaster II, Void S Light Electron Blaster II, Void S Light Electron Blaster II, Void S Light Electron Blaster II, Void S Small Energy Neutralizer II Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I 198 dps at lvl V Cap lasts 1 minute 30 seconds EHP of 9k This ship is very tough and can solo any inty or AF (except a smart ishkur pilot). The neut is VERY important against inties and active tankers. AB... Blasters... rofl...
Leoviscus Rukongai Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2009.06.30 18:27:00 - [49] AFs are a waste of ISK get a cruiser and T2 fit it [url=http://rukon.evekb.co.uk/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=64030] [/url]
Shadowfoot Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit Balance of Judgment	Posted - 2009.06.30 18:28:00 - [50] Cache cleared.
Duke Starbuckington	Posted - 2009.06.30 18:30:00 - [51] Originally by: Shadowfoot Originally by: Duke Starbuckington Originally by: Shadowfoot Harpy is the best IMO. I have flown it for a while now out in 00 and have had good results. This is the fit I use [Harpy, Blarpy] Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 1MN Afterburner I Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Medium Shield Extender I Light Electron Blaster II, Void S Light Electron Blaster II, Void S Light Electron Blaster II, Void S Light Electron Blaster II, Void S Small Energy Neutralizer II Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I 198 dps at lvl V Cap lasts 1 minute 30 seconds EHP of 9k This ship is very tough and can solo any inty or AF (except a smart ishkur pilot). The neut is VERY important against inties and active tankers. AB... Blasters... rofl... I lol at you good sir. Because you know most inties/AFs don't have to get within my blaster/scram/web range right? You, sir, are an idiot and should stop posting. My jaguar and harpy don't. Enjoy being a useless tackler and only good for killing other firgates solo.
UMEE Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.06.30 19:08:00 - [52] a lot of people are torn on the issue of AF role. from my experience, AF's perform best in the heavy tackler role...and for this, it is worth investing 40-50mill; you wont die much. in the solo "assault" role, T1 cruisers out-gank and out-tank AF's, for 1/4 the price. so, the rest is up to you.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.06.30 19:29:00 - [53] I am going to be testing the Enyo which looks like it should do well at solo work but honestly there is no single best AF out there, its all down to the pilot.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.30 19:34:00 - [54] AF are more or leass heavy tackleing variation to the light tackling Inties, dps wise, and tank wise (tank not relient on speed). They can take down cruisers solo, and I even kill plated Brutixes in my Harpy easily. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Wimpcha	Posted - 2009.06.30 19:56:00 - [55] me and friend use AFs to do low sec and 0.0 ratting. As well as some anti-pirate activities. So far i have seen an AF solo stuff all the way upto BS. Conclusions that i can be certain of. Retribution is deadly. useless as anything other than DPS. Jag and Wolf rule at whatever they are doing. except the wolf Cannot tackle so dont be suprised if your prey escapes. And yes having AFs work in pairs is fantastic. but be sure to split up when you enter system. do not recombine until prey has been engaged.
SuiJuris	Posted - 2009.06.30 19:57:00 - [56] Compare your races AF's to the destroyer, Retribution is like a slightly less damage double the hitpoints half the sig radius coercer. Enyo catalyst comparison is much the same. Harpy is like a cormorant and The Thrasher is the only destroyer that has merits other then price for using it over a Jag. As Heavy tacklers these ships are great, if a dual nos, MWD Scram Web Vengeance gets a hold of your ship its going to be a while before you get him off of you. If you manage to let a AB, scram, web vengeance on you goodluck. Sure the Vengeance will never kill you but it will hold onto you for a good long time, long enough for the cavalry to show up. --- It's like my mom always said... "I knew I should of drowned that one."
Letifer Deus Caldari Corporation 12345	Posted - 2009.06.30 21:51:00 - [57] Edited by: Letifer Deus on 30/06/2009 21:54:51 Originally by: Orakkus Another thing you will need to study up on is the "AB vs MWD" debate. Normally, its a no-brainer, but with AFs, the AB can be a definate asset versus MWD in some situations. I am a huge fan of AB AFs. I run a c-type with aux thruster rigs and absolutely love it. Originally by: Sidus Isaacs They can take down cruisers solo, and I even kill plated Brutixes in my Harpy easily. I soloed a CNR in my ishkur ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
abrasive soap Caldari Corporation 12345	Posted - 2009.06.30 23:30:00 - [58] Originally by: Letifer Deus Edited by: Letifer Deus on 30/06/2009 21:54:51 Originally by: Orakkus Another thing you will need to study up on is the "AB vs MWD" debate. Normally, its a no-brainer, but with AFs, the AB can be a definate asset versus MWD in some situations. I am a huge fan of AB AFs. I run a c-type with aux thruster rigs and absolutely love it. Originally by: Sidus Isaacs They can take down cruisers solo, and I even kill plated Brutixes in my Harpy easily. I soloed a CNR in my ishkur you suck
Letifer Deus Caldari Corporation 12345 Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.07.01 03:13:00 - [59] Originally by: abrasive soap you suck Almost as much as our corp name ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
Solid Prefekt Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.07.01 03:27:00 - [60] Edited by: Solid Prefekt on 01/07/2009 03:30:25 After the great speed nerf I have come to enjoy the Wolf over the Jag. With the new changes you can orbit at 500 with an AB and tank a lot of different ships. Couple that with the much better DPS and you got a really fun (close range) ship. I have had a number of 1v1 engagements with other AFs and the one that gives me the most trouble is the Blarpy (Blaster Harpy). Someone forgot to tell them that blasters suck now and should not be used. All other AFs I have been able to kill (with the Iskur being pretty even, where I ignore the drones and go straight to killing the ship). If any Inty gets too close (which happens more then people realize) then I just melt it like butter. Sadly though, the AF is a specialized ship with a very limited role. In nullsec you can't really solo it unless you fit an MWD, but then an Inty is a better option in most situations.

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