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Breanta Nryrun
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Posted - 2009.06.30 00:20:00 -
[1]
Perhaps in my first post I put too much effort into building a ship than just putting an idea out there. Let me put my idea out then as a more simple matter and see if we could possibly agree on setup or design.
My proposal is this; have a capital class mining ship limited to lowsec and 0.0. Even if isk farmers decided to use it keeping it out of high sec would at least make it a target they would have to protect. Second this capital class ship could have a larger cargo bay than a hulk, and adding in a corporate hanger allowing for smaller guys (the hulks) to assist in mining Third make the skill training long so the majority of people using a capital mining ship would be utilizing it for a corporate mining operation. Couple the long skill training with better yields than a hulk so that larger corporate ventures could be more easily supported.
Lastly make this capital class mining ship able to tank for the occasional attack but give it the overall role of needing the support ships to defend it.
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Breanta Nryrun
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Posted - 2009.06.30 04:11:00 -
[2]
How is it that having a larger platform for mining in 0.0 is not a more popular idea? There are many corporations and alliances asking for minerals and ice for production lines and and fuel for the many pos's. Having a larger mining ship to help support the large industry demands would certainly cut down on the need to haul everything in from highsec or run all day mining operations for the next Capital build.
Is everyone so afraid that macro miners will use a larger ship for their benefit even though it will be restricted to lowsec and below? Seems that lowsec usage would be more targets for pirates and 0.0 use would pay for itself many times over.
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Hayaishi
Gallente Swiftarrow Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.06.30 04:13:00 -
[3]
i have seen a 3x strip miner orca. so, your idea has already been made.
/thread.
no i will not show you pics. :P but i have seen it.
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Breanta Nryrun
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Posted - 2009.06.30 04:24:00 -
[4]
Well a x3 strip miner orca still falls under the same basic guidelines of a T1 ship similar to a hulk. while it can mine more and stay on the field longer, it does not mine faster and a hulk can still out-mine it.
that would be an Ugly site to see an orca with mining lasers, kinda like a T1 industry ship with one mining laser!
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Hayaishi
Gallente Swiftarrow Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.06.30 04:25:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Breanta Nryrun Well a x3 strip miner orca still falls under the same basic guidelines of a T1 ship similar to a hulk. while it can mine more and stay on the field longer, it does not mine faster and a hulk can still out-mine it.
that would be an Ugly site to see an orca with mining lasers, kinda like a T1 industry ship with one mining laser!
an orca with 3x strip miners = epic AFK boat. hence why people use haulers to mine aswell, :)
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Breanta Nryrun
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Posted - 2009.06.30 04:26:00 -
[6]
ah man now my last post makes no sense since you decided to hide the strip miner orca that you was talking about!
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Hayaishi
Gallente Swiftarrow Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.06.30 05:04:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Breanta Nryrun ah man now my last post makes no sense since you decided to hide the strip miner orca that you was talking about!
sorry? what strip mining orca?
only thing that comes to mind that is similar to a mining orca would be a Covetorca, and i doubt there is such a thing as a strip mining bestower, but i have seen a Bestriever although. but, again , i have said too much.
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Sigras
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Posted - 2009.06.30 11:41:00 -
[8]
lol . . . i dont know what to tell you, but i remember someone saying that mining was as fast as it was going to get and thats how CCP wants it. I wouldnt mind a capital barge with increased range to get that pesky huge 250k veld roid :D couple that with an ore scanner that tells you how much is in the rock now not how much was in it at the start of the last cycle, or a sensor that auto turns your lasers off when the roid pops and youve got yourself a ship . . . sorry for the block of text, on my phone
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Betty Crocka
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Posted - 2009.06.30 12:20:00 -
[9]
TBH I wish we would stop worrying about macro miners, as they help us have cheaper things lol. If we worry about macro miners all the time we really are just hurting ourselves, and killing our own play time. Instead of capital mining ships why not introduce bigger exhumers that mine a little bit more, but tbh honest I would rather see 1 to 2 more high slots that aren't turret hardpoints, and an extended capacitor/powergrid/cpu.....
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Intangible Mirage
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Posted - 2009.06.30 15:43:00 -
[10]
To be honest I don't care about macros or bots or whatever else program plays eve for people I really don't. It hasn't impacted me in any way and when people complain about them I have to wonder if they are putting all that much effort into their mining operation or just want to complain to a scapegoat.
Back on subject a new mining ship regardless if it is cap or not needs to be able to operate anywhere. This business of "only keep it in low sec" is a blatant attempt to keep people from mining on their 'turf' so to speak.
No only that but such a new ship that can out-mine a hulk would take a LONG time to train/be invented before it would be widespread so where is the fire? People not wanting a new ship are assuming that EVERYONE would be able to get one immediately and that's just not true.
About low sec and mining there. Yeah we need something that can go into low sec and mine and SURVIVE. I'll admit that but the ship should not be barred from high sec without a very good reason or have people forgotten that we already have capital ships in high sec?
The low sec problem I don't have a solution. I don't know of many people that even have a clue of WHAT to do with it but I have read good ideas on this forum and some of those need to be looked at. Right now its more profitable to mine in Wormhole space than low sec.
Whatever happens, people need to get a grip on themselves before shooting down a new mining ship.
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Breanta Nryrun
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Posted - 2009.06.30 16:37:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Sigras lol . . . i dont know what to tell you, but i remember someone saying that mining was as fast as it was going to get and thats how CCP wants it. I wouldnt mind a capital barge with increased range to get that pesky huge 250k veld roid :D couple that with an ore scanner that tells you how much is in the rock now not how much was in it at the start of the last cycle, or a sensor that auto turns your lasers off when the roid pops and youve got yourself a ship . . . sorry for the block of text, on my phone
Alright, how about a larger platform from which to mine with a larger cargo hold and increased range? And add the possibility of jump drive to it as well.
Originally by: Intangible Mirage
No only that but such a new ship that can out-mine a hulk would take a LONG time to train/be invented before it would be widespread so where is the fire? People not wanting a new ship are assuming that EVERYONE would be able to get one immediately and that's just not true.
About low sec and mining there. Yeah we need something that can go into low sec and mine and SURVIVE. I'll admit that but the ship should not be barred from high sec without a very good reason or have people forgotten that we already have capital ships in high sec?
The low sec problem I don't have a solution. I don't know of many people that even have a clue of WHAT to do with it but I have read good ideas on this forum and some of those need to be looked at. Right now its more profitable to mine in Wormhole space than low sec.
Whatever happens, people need to get a grip on themselves before shooting down a new mining ship.
My Point exactly. If it is going to be a larger ship it is going to take a long time to train and benefit those who are used to the rigors of 0.0 If you add the requirement to train capitals just to even get into a larger class ship, than NO not everyone will get one within the first week of it being released. Having one would be because you trained for it not because you had the isk for it. IMHO would still be a better idea to keep it out of Highsec, keeping it in the class of capital rather than it being another giant for newbs to bounce off.
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Breanta Nryrun
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Posted - 2009.06.30 21:29:00 -
[12]
Is there anyone else who might have a comment on this proposed idea?
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Uronksur Suth
Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.06.30 21:32:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Betty Crocka TBH I wish we would stop worrying about macro miners, as they help us have cheaper things lol. If we worry about macro miners all the time we really are just hurting ourselves, and killing our own play time.
...except for the fact that they flood the market, devaluing the ore and minerals which us miners find extremely irritating, and mine out belts which people who actually play the game would like to use?
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Rilwar
BlackStar Industrial
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Posted - 2009.06.30 21:33:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Rilwar on 30/06/2009 21:33:00
Originally by: Breanta Nryrun Is there anyone else who might have a comment on this proposed idea?
Yeah.
It's still horribad.
Mitnal was here. |
Betty Crocka
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Posted - 2009.06.30 21:52:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Uronksur Suth
Originally by: Betty Crocka TBH I wish we would stop worrying about macro miners, as they help us have cheaper things lol. If we worry about macro miners all the time we really are just hurting ourselves, and killing our own play time.
...except for the fact that they flood the market, devaluing the ore and minerals which us miners find extremely irritating, and mine out belts which people who actually play the game would like to use?
macro miners are subscribers too you know.... are you saying that you have dibs on all of the asteroid belts?
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Uronksur Suth
Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.06.30 21:56:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Betty Crocka
Originally by: Uronksur Suth
Originally by: Betty Crocka TBH I wish we would stop worrying about macro miners, as they help us have cheaper things lol. If we worry about macro miners all the time we really are just hurting ourselves, and killing our own play time.
...except for the fact that they flood the market, devaluing the ore and minerals which us miners find extremely irritating, and mine out belts which people who actually play the game would like to use?
macro miners are subscribers too you know.... are you saying that you have dibs on all of the asteroid belts?
No but I'm actually playing the game, and I'm not breaking the Terms of Use.... So yeah, I actually do believe that people who follow CCP's policies should have "dibs"
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Sigras
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Posted - 2009.06.30 23:33:00 -
[17]
the other thing to think about is if you dramatically increase supply and demand stays the same, the minerals are just going to be worth less . . .
Im thinking one with added utility like i suggested earlier.
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Breanta Nryrun
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Posted - 2009.07.01 16:30:00 -
[18]
With more and more corps out in 0.0 it would make sense to have a larger platform for mining. Enable it with the following: -larger cargohold -jump drive -larger tank -small corp hanger -bigger yield on lasers
Limit it with these items -longer cycle time on lasers so that it does not outmine the almighty hulk -no stargate access -small or no drone bay -no defense capabilities
If you were to implement such a platform, would benefit larger scale corporations and alliances keep operations running.
If anyone was so foolish to fly one in lowsec as a macro miner, they would be a large target and have to defend it.
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente The NightClub
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Posted - 2009.07.01 16:39:00 -
[19]
I want a T2 mining frig
It'll have the same cargo space as a Freighter
It'll have the same tank as a passive Drake
And it will have a smartbomb pulse that expands and destroys all the asteroids, and then collapses in and draws all the ore into the hold.
And if you fit the T2 pulse, it refines along the way so you have a hold full of minerals instead.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.01 17:15:00 -
[20]
Can you explain why the fuck a capital mining ship is actually needed other than simply to have something better than a hulk (which already rapes belts)?
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Rip Minner
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Posted - 2009.07.01 18:34:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Rip Minner on 01/07/2009 18:38:58 Edited by: Rip Minner on 01/07/2009 18:38:46 I love the ideal of a new better mining ship. But whats the point.
Micro mining happend in high sec and 0.0 and probly wormholes by now. You hand them a better tool to **** more belts and there for produce more mins it dont realy help the small miner. Only the 0.0 Allances that do micro mining and the micro miners that do it for isk/cash.
I myself started as a miner have max mining skills even in Mining drones. And I just started doing level 4 missions with good tanking skills and drone skills and like level 3 Large lazers. And make twice to three times as much runing missions then mining.
I can bet that will keep going up as I get better dps and better Social skills. I already have max salvage skills and Just need to train ME skill to get Scrapmetal refining that wil raise my isk/perhoure too.
Then make my Trade skills better for saling the good mods and the scrap mins and I will make 3/4 times missioning rather then mining.
The only time my corps even do's a mining op any more is for Large orders then we have to target specific rocks for the mins as that is fasest way to fill the order.
Edit: I cant remeaber the last time it was even profitable for are corp to fill one of the large orders for 0.0 Allances ether. Why becouse the mining takes away from all are isk/perhoure Do we still mine ya just becouse and whenwere bord or have a med pos up in wormhole space. No other time. ps. the Wormhole space is so we no longer have to pay for any low sec/0.0 mins. That and Mission loot more then covers are need for them.
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Bluestreak2k5
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Posted - 2009.07.01 18:58:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Bluestreak2k5 on 01/07/2009 19:04:42 Edited by: Bluestreak2k5 on 01/07/2009 19:03:23 Our mining industrial corp has talked about this somewhat, but what might be a better idea is be able to deploy a mining outpost in a belt.
The outpost doesn't need to have lasers, because that would be too overpowering, but it would just be a small station where haulers can dock, with no wait times like your at a POS where you just warp in and out, and then freighters can load up and undock and transport the minerals somewhere else.
Essentially it would be a giant deployable corporation hangar that could be destructable or capturable depending on what the developers think best. Deploy time like 5 minutes, but has a lot more HP then a Roqual.
Could even add some restrictions on types of ships that dock, like only Freighters and Industrial ships can dock, that way roaming gangs can still pounce on Roquals, Orca's, Exhumers, and Mining barges and they don't have an easy defense in lowsec or 00.
Restricted to use in lowsec and 00 only.
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Miraqu
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.02 06:32:00 -
[23]
I really don't know why everybody just talks about more and more yield.
The main point of such a ship should be survivability against smaller roaming gangs. It also should be a GANG ship.
I'd love to see 5 such Ships, a Rorqual and some Hulks killing a belt, while Spidertanking and shield supporting the hulks and watching how your swarm of 50 light drones kills them.
It just does not need a higher yield but better survivability.
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Breanta Nryrun
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Posted - 2009.07.02 06:40:00 -
[24]
at least toss in the extra cargo and jump drive with a small Corp hanger to support the hulks in fleet with you.
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Bluestreak2k5
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Posted - 2009.07.02 21:32:00 -
[25]
The problem is not needing a larger mining ship. You can't simply increase cargohold of hulks, because your just providing benefits to single miners, which is stupid in 00. Group mining has the same problem, but with haulers, need too many rigged Itty 5's per # of hulks.
You can't load a freighter in the belt, and so it takes so many haulers to keep hauling the ore back and forth to the station or POS.
If you do as I suggested, and make a deployable outpost in the belt, then both single and group mining get a bonus from it, not just a bonus to single or group mining.
Besides hulks are more then enough for stripping belts already, if you made a capital mining ship, then you would have to make freighters loadable in the belt.
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ServantOfMask
Minmatar Foundation Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.07.02 21:58:00 -
[26]
capital MINING ships yes please
Rorqual is not a mining ship, not that anyone in THIS thread claimed it was.
If it mines it should out yield the almighty hulk, its a friggin cap ship. Technologies get outdated, improved etc, there is no reason why the Hulk cant become obsolete. However it should have the same time/skill requirements as a carrier or dread (including the capital guns/logistics xfers) as it would be their counter part. A decent sized cargo hold along the lines of 2 or maybe 3 cycles of a rack of (capital) strip miners, its not a hauler thats what the rorqual is for. for the capital strip miners i'd prefer a duration akin to the gas harvester with much less yield / cycle but much faster cycles. It's simply more engaging to watch ore flow into the hold than staring at a circle to slowly crap a heap in the hold.
skills ought to be no less than: exhumer V capital industrial ships 3 cap mining ship skill 2
throw in some pre-req's / skill time for the capital sized strip miners to match XL weapons and logistics xfers. if no cap sized strips then create a skill that increases yield /level with better than hulk yields at max, how much more is up for debate.
oh and empire arguments really have no traction in a Capital mining ship debate. it'll never see empire anyways. most 0.0 belts only get cherry picked not even closely wiped out. cant speak for low sec as I've never mined there.
buildcost also should be appropriate to its class, making it far less prolific amongst macroers.
limited to cyno-enabled areas, MAYBE wormholes.
Use it solo at your own risk, its a juicy kill that anyone will take time out to get. not very efficient in areas with alot of miners/ small roids. def needs a gang to operate and defend. "Misina Arlath
GIRL = Guy In Real Life MMORPG = Many Men Online Role Playing Girls." |
Breanta Nryrun
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Posted - 2009.07.02 23:36:00 -
[27]
Glad someone sees what I was trying to say.
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Maar T'Kmel
Minmatar M. Corp Engineering Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.07.03 00:37:00 -
[28]
Mining is fine the way it is.
Only thing that needs to change is Survey Scanner IIs need to go to 25km instead of their 22km limit. If you have a nice boost in your fleet, you're missing the quantity of those rocks inbetween 22 and 25km.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.07.03 08:07:00 -
[29]
Don't need a ship which mines faster, just give the Hulk double the hitpoints and a bit more fitting (PG and CPU) so one can fit a T2 shield tank.
As far as capital type ships go, why not an advanced Orca which can suck the ore right out of the Hulks' holds?
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Total Disaster
Caldari Frontier Industry
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Posted - 2009.07.03 08:22:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Maar T'Kmel Mining is fine the way it is.
Only thing that needs to change is Survey Scanner IIs need to go to 25km instead of their 22km limit. If you have a nice boost in your fleet, you're missing the quantity of those rocks inbetween 22 and 25km.
and survey scanners should have the nice checkbox saying "use overview filter"
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