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An argument for not honering ransoms

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Lana Hellfury Minmatar Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.07.03 05:43:00 - [1] I've recently been attempting to ransom players before we pop their ships, and its not been going well. 50% of people will outright refuse the convo, 50% of whats left will close convo as soon as you ransom them and everyone else has said no or tried to negotiate for a lower price (im not going to negotiate or delay long enough for them to get friends). Why is this so? I'm taking a stab that its because at some point in the past all of these players, who probably venture in to lowsec from time to time, have had a ransom dishonored. So why is this an argument to dishonor ransoms? Well the way I see it is that if they are going to stop paying ransoms as soon as someone dishonors and you get someone that PAY a ransom, then it is likely their first or second ransom. Seeing as by the next time you kill them they will have probably met someone that dishonored the ransom and wont pay anyway, why not just take the isk and their killmail as well.
Bestofworst Worstofbest	Posted - 2009.07.03 05:48:00 - [2] I'm not getting the topic at hand here ________________________________________________ Am I an alt, main, or both? You decide!
Dario Wall Caldari Corvus Industries	Posted - 2009.07.03 05:50:00 - [3] I think it's not only the fact that some people dishonor the ransom, but the victim thinks by not paying it they are taking control of the situation. They probably have seen too many movies with the "we don't negotiate with terrorists" line in them. It's unfortunate since the majority of times, paying the ransom will cost them less than if they lose the ship.
Lana Hellfury Minmatar Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.07.03 05:52:00 - [4] Originally by: Bestofworst Worstofbest I'm not getting the topic at hand here I cant think of another way to put it.....
Darth Skorpius Dark Side Cookies	Posted - 2009.07.03 05:54:00 - [5] the next time someone tries to ransom me, im gonna be a real smartass and offer them 0.01 isk less than what they are after ______________________________________________ WTB New Sig. Convo me ingame
Lana Hellfury Minmatar Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.07.03 05:55:00 - [6] Originally by: Darth Skorpius the next time someone tries to ransom me, im gonna be a real smartass and offer them 0.01 isk less than what they are after Try that on me and i'll pod you on principal..
Bestofworst Worstofbest	Posted - 2009.07.03 05:55:00 - [7] Originally by: Lana Hellfury Originally by: Bestofworst Worstofbest I'm not getting the topic at hand here I cant think of another way to put it..... Well I'll pay if you ransom me, how bout that? ________________________________________________ Am I an alt, main, or both? You decide!
Darth Skorpius Dark Side Cookies	Posted - 2009.07.03 05:56:00 - [8] Originally by: Lana Hellfury Originally by: Darth Skorpius the next time someone tries to ransom me, im gonna be a real smartass and offer them 0.01 isk less than what they are after Try that on me and i'll pod you on principal.. lol, i wouldnt expect anything less ______________________________________________ WTB New Sig. Convo me ingame
Jojo Redana	Posted - 2009.07.03 05:59:00 - [9] Originally by: Dario Wall It's unfortunate since the majority of times, paying the ransom will cost them less than if they lose the ship. Maybe true but why to pay and then watch your ship go boom. They want the killmail anyway if the ship is worth something. It's like Killmail Online.
Lady Spank Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2009.07.03 06:02:00 - [10] I believe in honouring ransoms, I just don't offer them. The quality of my replies is directly related to the QQuality of the opÆs comments
Jimmy Duce Shards of Apathy	Posted - 2009.07.03 06:05:00 - [11] Originally by: Lana Hellfury words. bring back LExa!!! and the easy anser is cause
Ozone71 Caldari The Dark Ic3y LIfe	Posted - 2009.07.03 08:15:00 - [12] As a miner who has been on the receiving end... I was asked for an 8mill ransom on a ship that was worth 5 and insured for 2 ... 8mill ransom or buy it all back for 3mill? I ignored the pirate, got blown up, then bought all my stuff and was up an running again in no time. (oh .. and I was on a trial account and could not send cash even if I wanted to! LOL!) Latest ransom was another Ultra-noob pirate in a rookie ship with Civilian guns wanting 5million not to attack my Crusier... I targeted him and told him to run while he could. I so wanted to send a wave of missiles at him ... but .. it was high sec... Piracy 101 If you are going to ransom, be reasonable. You want 10million for my 15million isk ship? I wont give you the satisfaction .. I have no implants to lose. You want 10million for my 30million ISK ship? Ok .. now we are talking business. Give people 30 seconds to negotiate or actually bother to read local - after that - sure - blat them. If someone does pay .. and you don't honour it then you are creating a problem. One or two experiences like that and I'd never pay a ransom, which means great kills for you .. but no money and business comes first. "Ozone is blue and smells faintly of geraniums." (Qi, BBC TV)
Lana Hellfury Minmatar Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.07.03 08:17:00 - [13] Originally by: Jimmy Duce Originally by: Lana Hellfury words. bring back LExa!!! and the easy anser is cause Lexa got a ban and is now posting under the name 'TheBest Hellfury'.. waits for the mods to remove
The'Best Hellfury Incura	Posted - 2009.07.03 08:18:00 - [14] Originally by: Jimmy Duce Originally by: Lana Hellfury words. bring back LExa! wat? I'm waiting on a petition, chill!
Lana Hellfury Minmatar Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.07.03 08:22:00 - [15] Originally by: Ozone71 Some stuff and then.. If you are going to ransom, be reasonable. You want 10million for my 15million isk ship? I wont give you the satisfaction .. I have no implants to lose. You want 10million for my 30million ISK ship? Ok .. now we are talking business. Give people 30 seconds to negotiate or actually bother to read local - after that - sure - blat them. Given that the killmails for the ships im getting have faction and/or deadspace stuff on them and im ransoming for the low low value of 50M (based on the idea that I value the killmails at about that much, and if they DON'T have faction gear and im over ransoming then so what...) I would have though SOMEONE would have accepted by now.. I mean 50% doesn't even accept the convo and I have to yell it out in local!
The'Best Hellfury Incura	Posted - 2009.07.03 08:39:00 - [16] For the most part, if people ask for a ransom, I'll generally offer them one and honour it. Generally speaking though, I never offer them myself because I'm playing Killmails-Online.
Jimer Lins Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.07.03 08:46:00 - [17] Originally by: Lana Hellfury Originally by: Darth Skorpius the next time someone tries to ransom me, im gonna be a real smartass and offer them 0.01 isk less than what they are after Try that on me and i'll pod you on principal.. But would you pod me on interest? ;) Killboard - Declarations of War Podcast
Tiny Tove	Posted - 2009.07.03 08:46:00 - [18] It's Everybody versus Everybody. People are happy to tell you that everything you do is PvP, trading, combat, whatever, but I've yet to see anybody argue that dishonouring ransoms is PvP. Basically there is no such thing as repeat business. I get one shot at ransoming somebody, they won't get themselves in a position to have me ransom them again, and posting about that one time you got the same guy three times in one night doesn't counter the point. So what's the point in me teaching that person to give away his isk to my competitors? No point at all. Give me your isk, give me your loot, go away crying.
Bestofworst Worstofbest	Posted - 2009.07.03 08:51:00 - [19] I once podded a day old character, and my friend who had his pod scrammed ask for 5 mil ransom ________________________________________________ Am I an alt, main, or both? You decide!
Azirapheal Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2009.07.03 10:53:00 - [20] i usually always offer a ransom, the trick to being payed out is being reasonable. best one ive had so far was having a pilot eject from his scorp when he couldbnt deal with my zealot and escape, so i boarded the ship docked it went back to feth my zeal and sold his ship back to him for 80m (since it was still insured and t2 fitted) he bought it back off me to save the hassle of modhunting etc again other tricks - set your ransom at about 40% of the value of the ship after insurance (40-50m for a hac as a guideline) pods are a different issue, and ive had great success with 50m for one year or less 150 m for over a year in age. ofc waiting any longer or rejecting my offers is instasquishy Originally by: Grohalmatar The proposed changes in the game development forum are obviously a nerf to falcon pilots. However, what they really are is a nerf to falcon alts.
Ralara Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.07.03 11:15:00 - [21] Ask to be invited to the United ransom channel - see how they do it. They have about a 90% success rate - they get people to eject from tech 3 ships, sing on team speak etc... and one time we even trapped a caracal and made him fight the next target that came through the gate, gladiator style. Winner got to keep their ship :D --
Jint Hikaru Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2009.07.03 11:28:00 - [22] Quote: and one time we even trapped a caracal and made him fight the next target that came through the gate, gladiator style. Winner got to keep their ship :D I read that story... very funny! ------------------------ Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager "I've got a couple of Strippers on my ship... and they just love to dance!" ------------------------
Noelle Fay Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.07.03 11:30:00 - [23] Edited by: Noelle Fay on 03/07/2009 11:30:15 Originally by: Lana Hellfury stuff Clearly the reason as to why you had such difficulties in managaging to successfully execute ransoms in the most recent time lies within the following: You suck at it. While it's true that many people refuse to pay up, quite a lot do otherwise and beg to live. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- The secret to success, whether it's women or money, is knowing when to quit. I oughta know: I'm divorced and broke.
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.07.03 11:32:00 - [24] Originally by: Lana Hellfury I've recently been attempting to ransom players before we pop their ships, and its not been going well. 50% of people will outright refuse the convo, 50% of whats left will close convo as soon as you ransom them and everyone else has said no or tried to negotiate for a lower price (im not going to negotiate or delay long enough for them to get friends). Why is this so? I'm taking a stab that its because at some point in the past all of these players, who probably venture in to lowsec from time to time, have had a ransom dishonored. So why is this an argument to dishonor ransoms? Well the way I see it is that if they are going to stop paying ransoms as soon as someone dishonors and you get someone that PAY a ransom, then it is likely their first or second ransom. Seeing as by the next time you kill them they will have probably met someone that dishonored the ransom and wont pay anyway, why not just take the isk and their killmail as well. Check bydi kb, ransom section ... i think it's worth it. :) --- I smack just for myself. * Your signature file is to large. Please note: we do not allow signature files larger than 24000 bytes - Fallout
sp3cial forc3s Sileo In Pacis The Space P0lice	Posted - 2009.07.03 11:42:00 - [25] Originally by: Lana Hellfury I've recently been attempting to ransom players before we pop their ships, and its not been going well. 50% of people will outright refuse the convo, 50% of whats left will close convo as soon as you ransom them and everyone else has said no or tried to negotiate for a lower price (im not going to negotiate or delay long enough for them to get friends). Why is this so? I'm taking a stab that its because at some point in the past all of these players, who probably venture in to lowsec from time to time, have had a ransom dishonored. So why is this an argument to dishonor ransoms? Well the way I see it is that if they are going to stop paying ransoms as soon as someone dishonors and you get someone that PAY a ransom, then it is likely their first or second ransom. Seeing as by the next time you kill them they will have probably met someone that dishonored the ransom and wont pay anyway, why not just take the isk and their killmail as well. Am i missing something here? I take it you ransom every single one of your targets and let them go wether they pay or not because battleclinic says you have never killed a ship or pod in your eve history.
Darth Skorpius Dark Side Cookies	Posted - 2009.07.03 12:11:00 - [26] Originally by: sp3cial forc3s Am i missing something here? I take it you ransom every single one of your targets and let them go wether they pay or not because battleclinic says you have never killed a ship or pod in your eve history. this because everyone knows that everykill and loss in eve is recorded on battleclinic /sarcasm off seriously dude, not everyone uses battle clinic (in fact many people hate it because you have ot be logged in to actually see killmails now) adn even then, not everyone posts the kill and loss mails from every fight they have every been in ______________________________________________ WTB New Sig. Convo me ingame
sp3cial forc3s Sileo In Pacis The Space P0lice	Posted - 2009.07.03 12:19:00 - [27] Originally by: Darth Skorpius Originally by: sp3cial forc3s Am i missing something here? I take it you ransom every single one of your targets and let them go wether they pay or not because battleclinic says you have never killed a ship or pod in your eve history. this because everyone knows that everykill and loss in eve is recorded on battleclinic /sarcasm off seriously dude, not everyone uses battle clinic (in fact many people hate it because you have ot be logged in to actually see killmails now) adn even then, not everyone posts the kill and loss mails from every fight they have every been in Ive never posted a km on BC either, yet 95% of my kills and losses are on there. Same goes for nearly every pilot in eve i imagine. Turn your sarcasm back on, you made more sense then.
Ta'jek Angels Of Death EVE Free Worlds Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.03 12:36:00 - [28] Originally by: sp3cial forc3s Originally by: Darth Skorpius Originally by: sp3cial forc3s Am i missing something here? I take it you ransom every single one of your targets and let them go wether they pay or not because battleclinic says you have never killed a ship or pod in your eve history. this because everyone knows that everykill and loss in eve is recorded on battleclinic /sarcasm off seriously dude, not everyone uses battle clinic (in fact many people hate it because you have ot be logged in to actually see killmails now) adn even then, not everyone posts the kill and loss mails from every fight they have every been in Ive never posted a km on BC either, yet 95% of my kills and losses are on there. Same goes for nearly every pilot in eve i imagine. Turn your sarcasm back on, you made more sense then. probably because someone else posted it from the other side of the killmail... battleclinic is very hit and miss but then again can be better then many private killboards where they never post losses...
Darth Skorpius Dark Side Cookies	Posted - 2009.07.03 12:37:00 - [29] Originally by: sp3cial forc3s Originally by: Darth Skorpius Originally by: sp3cial forc3s Am i missing something here? I take it you ransom every single one of your targets and let them go wether they pay or not because battleclinic says you have never killed a ship or pod in your eve history. this because everyone knows that everykill and loss in eve is recorded on battleclinic /sarcasm off seriously dude, not everyone uses battle clinic (in fact many people hate it because you have ot be logged in to actually see killmails now) adn even then, not everyone posts the kill and loss mails from every fight they have every been in Ive never posted a km on BC either, yet 95% of my kills and losses are on there. Same goes for nearly every pilot in eve i imagine. Turn your sarcasm back on, you made more sense then. oh yes, i forgot, your experience with something is indacative of everyone else ______________________________________________ WTB New Sig. Convo me ingame
sp3cial forc3s Sileo In Pacis The Space P0lice	Posted - 2009.07.03 12:46:00 - [30] Originally by: Darth Skorpius Originally by: sp3cial forc3s Originally by: Darth Skorpius Originally by: sp3cial forc3s Am i missing something here? I take it you ransom every single one of your targets and let them go wether they pay or not because battleclinic says you have never killed a ship or pod in your eve history. this because everyone knows that everykill and loss in eve is recorded on battleclinic /sarcasm off seriously dude, not everyone uses battle clinic (in fact many people hate it because you have ot be logged in to actually see killmails now) adn even then, not everyone posts the kill and loss mails from every fight they have every been in Ive never posted a km on BC either, yet 95% of my kills and losses are on there. Same goes for nearly every pilot in eve i imagine. Turn your sarcasm back on, you made more sense then. oh yes, i forgot, your experience with something is indacative of everyone else I think you mean indicative. And..... NO YOU!!!

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