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An argument for not honering ransoms

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Lana Hellfury Minmatar Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.07.03 05:43:00 - [1] I've recently been attempting to ransom players before we pop their ships, and its not been going well. 50% of people will outright refuse the convo, 50% of whats left will close convo as soon as you ransom them and everyone else has said no or tried to negotiate for a lower price (im not going to negotiate or delay long enough for them to get friends). Why is this so? I'm taking a stab that its because at some point in the past all of these players, who probably venture in to lowsec from time to time, have had a ransom dishonored. So why is this an argument to dishonor ransoms? Well the way I see it is that if they are going to stop paying ransoms as soon as someone dishonors and you get someone that PAY a ransom, then it is likely their first or second ransom. Seeing as by the next time you kill them they will have probably met someone that dishonored the ransom and wont pay anyway, why not just take the isk and their killmail as well.
Bestofworst Worstofbest	Posted - 2009.07.03 05:48:00 - [2] I'm not getting the topic at hand here ________________________________________________ Am I an alt, main, or both? You decide!
Dario Wall Caldari Corvus Industries	Posted - 2009.07.03 05:50:00 - [3] I think it's not only the fact that some people dishonor the ransom, but the victim thinks by not paying it they are taking control of the situation. They probably have seen too many movies with the "we don't negotiate with terrorists" line in them. It's unfortunate since the majority of times, paying the ransom will cost them less than if they lose the ship.
Lana Hellfury Minmatar Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.07.03 05:52:00 - [4] Originally by: Bestofworst Worstofbest I'm not getting the topic at hand here I cant think of another way to put it.....
Darth Skorpius Dark Side Cookies	Posted - 2009.07.03 05:54:00 - [5] the next time someone tries to ransom me, im gonna be a real smartass and offer them 0.01 isk less than what they are after ______________________________________________ WTB New Sig. Convo me ingame
Lana Hellfury Minmatar Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.07.03 05:55:00 - [6] Originally by: Darth Skorpius the next time someone tries to ransom me, im gonna be a real smartass and offer them 0.01 isk less than what they are after Try that on me and i'll pod you on principal..
Bestofworst Worstofbest	Posted - 2009.07.03 05:55:00 - [7] Originally by: Lana Hellfury Originally by: Bestofworst Worstofbest I'm not getting the topic at hand here I cant think of another way to put it..... Well I'll pay if you ransom me, how bout that? ________________________________________________ Am I an alt, main, or both? You decide!
Darth Skorpius Dark Side Cookies	Posted - 2009.07.03 05:56:00 - [8] Originally by: Lana Hellfury Originally by: Darth Skorpius the next time someone tries to ransom me, im gonna be a real smartass and offer them 0.01 isk less than what they are after Try that on me and i'll pod you on principal.. lol, i wouldnt expect anything less ______________________________________________ WTB New Sig. Convo me ingame
Jojo Redana	Posted - 2009.07.03 05:59:00 - [9] Originally by: Dario Wall It's unfortunate since the majority of times, paying the ransom will cost them less than if they lose the ship. Maybe true but why to pay and then watch your ship go boom. They want the killmail anyway if the ship is worth something. It's like Killmail Online.
Lady Spank Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2009.07.03 06:02:00 - [10] I believe in honouring ransoms, I just don't offer them. The quality of my replies is directly related to the QQuality of the opÆs comments
Jimmy Duce Shards of Apathy	Posted - 2009.07.03 06:05:00 - [11] Originally by: Lana Hellfury words. bring back LExa!!! and the easy anser is cause
Ozone71 Caldari The Dark Ic3y LIfe	Posted - 2009.07.03 08:15:00 - [12] As a miner who has been on the receiving end... I was asked for an 8mill ransom on a ship that was worth 5 and insured for 2 ... 8mill ransom or buy it all back for 3mill? I ignored the pirate, got blown up, then bought all my stuff and was up an running again in no time. (oh .. and I was on a trial account and could not send cash even if I wanted to! LOL!) Latest ransom was another Ultra-noob pirate in a rookie ship with Civilian guns wanting 5million not to attack my Crusier... I targeted him and told him to run while he could. I so wanted to send a wave of missiles at him ... but .. it was high sec... Piracy 101 If you are going to ransom, be reasonable. You want 10million for my 15million isk ship? I wont give you the satisfaction .. I have no implants to lose. You want 10million for my 30million ISK ship? Ok .. now we are talking business. Give people 30 seconds to negotiate or actually bother to read local - after that - sure - blat them. If someone does pay .. and you don't honour it then you are creating a problem. One or two experiences like that and I'd never pay a ransom, which means great kills for you .. but no money and business comes first. "Ozone is blue and smells faintly of geraniums." (Qi, BBC TV)
Lana Hellfury Minmatar Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.07.03 08:17:00 - [13] Originally by: Jimmy Duce Originally by: Lana Hellfury words. bring back LExa!!! and the easy anser is cause Lexa got a ban and is now posting under the name 'TheBest Hellfury'.. waits for the mods to remove
The'Best Hellfury Incura	Posted - 2009.07.03 08:18:00 - [14] Originally by: Jimmy Duce Originally by: Lana Hellfury words. bring back LExa! wat? I'm waiting on a petition, chill!
Lana Hellfury Minmatar Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.07.03 08:22:00 - [15] Originally by: Ozone71 Some stuff and then.. If you are going to ransom, be reasonable. You want 10million for my 15million isk ship? I wont give you the satisfaction .. I have no implants to lose. You want 10million for my 30million ISK ship? Ok .. now we are talking business. Give people 30 seconds to negotiate or actually bother to read local - after that - sure - blat them. Given that the killmails for the ships im getting have faction and/or deadspace stuff on them and im ransoming for the low low value of 50M (based on the idea that I value the killmails at about that much, and if they DON'T have faction gear and im over ransoming then so what...) I would have though SOMEONE would have accepted by now.. I mean 50% doesn't even accept the convo and I have to yell it out in local!
The'Best Hellfury Incura	Posted - 2009.07.03 08:39:00 - [16] For the most part, if people ask for a ransom, I'll generally offer them one and honour it. Generally speaking though, I never offer them myself because I'm playing Killmails-Online.
Jimer Lins Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.07.03 08:46:00 - [17] Originally by: Lana Hellfury Originally by: Darth Skorpius the next time someone tries to ransom me, im gonna be a real smartass and offer them 0.01 isk less than what they are after Try that on me and i'll pod you on principal.. But would you pod me on interest? ;) Killboard - Declarations of War Podcast
Tiny Tove	Posted - 2009.07.03 08:46:00 - [18] It's Everybody versus Everybody. People are happy to tell you that everything you do is PvP, trading, combat, whatever, but I've yet to see anybody argue that dishonouring ransoms is PvP. Basically there is no such thing as repeat business. I get one shot at ransoming somebody, they won't get themselves in a position to have me ransom them again, and posting about that one time you got the same guy three times in one night doesn't counter the point. So what's the point in me teaching that person to give away his isk to my competitors? No point at all. Give me your isk, give me your loot, go away crying.
Bestofworst Worstofbest	Posted - 2009.07.03 08:51:00 - [19] I once podded a day old character, and my friend who had his pod scrammed ask for 5 mil ransom ________________________________________________ Am I an alt, main, or both? You decide!
Azirapheal Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2009.07.03 10:53:00 - [20] i usually always offer a ransom, the trick to being payed out is being reasonable. best one ive had so far was having a pilot eject from his scorp when he couldbnt deal with my zealot and escape, so i boarded the ship docked it went back to feth my zeal and sold his ship back to him for 80m (since it was still insured and t2 fitted) he bought it back off me to save the hassle of modhunting etc again other tricks - set your ransom at about 40% of the value of the ship after insurance (40-50m for a hac as a guideline) pods are a different issue, and ive had great success with 50m for one year or less 150 m for over a year in age. ofc waiting any longer or rejecting my offers is instasquishy Originally by: Grohalmatar The proposed changes in the game development forum are obviously a nerf to falcon pilots. However, what they really are is a nerf to falcon alts.
Ralara Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.07.03 11:15:00 - [21] Ask to be invited to the United ransom channel - see how they do it. They have about a 90% success rate - they get people to eject from tech 3 ships, sing on team speak etc... and one time we even trapped a caracal and made him fight the next target that came through the gate, gladiator style. Winner got to keep their ship :D --
Jint Hikaru Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2009.07.03 11:28:00 - [22] Quote: and one time we even trapped a caracal and made him fight the next target that came through the gate, gladiator style. Winner got to keep their ship :D I read that story... very funny! ------------------------ Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager "I've got a couple of Strippers on my ship... and they just love to dance!" ------------------------
Noelle Fay Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.07.03 11:30:00 - [23] Edited by: Noelle Fay on 03/07/2009 11:30:15 Originally by: Lana Hellfury stuff Clearly the reason as to why you had such difficulties in managaging to successfully execute ransoms in the most recent time lies within the following: You suck at it. While it's true that many people refuse to pay up, quite a lot do otherwise and beg to live. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- The secret to success, whether it's women or money, is knowing when to quit. I oughta know: I'm divorced and broke.
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.07.03 11:32:00 - [24] Originally by: Lana Hellfury I've recently been attempting to ransom players before we pop their ships, and its not been going well. 50% of people will outright refuse the convo, 50% of whats left will close convo as soon as you ransom them and everyone else has said no or tried to negotiate for a lower price (im not going to negotiate or delay long enough for them to get friends). Why is this so? I'm taking a stab that its because at some point in the past all of these players, who probably venture in to lowsec from time to time, have had a ransom dishonored. So why is this an argument to dishonor ransoms? Well the way I see it is that if they are going to stop paying ransoms as soon as someone dishonors and you get someone that PAY a ransom, then it is likely their first or second ransom. Seeing as by the next time you kill them they will have probably met someone that dishonored the ransom and wont pay anyway, why not just take the isk and their killmail as well. Check bydi kb, ransom section ... i think it's worth it. :) --- I smack just for myself. * Your signature file is to large. Please note: we do not allow signature files larger than 24000 bytes - Fallout
sp3cial forc3s Sileo In Pacis The Space P0lice	Posted - 2009.07.03 11:42:00 - [25] Originally by: Lana Hellfury I've recently been attempting to ransom players before we pop their ships, and its not been going well. 50% of people will outright refuse the convo, 50% of whats left will close convo as soon as you ransom them and everyone else has said no or tried to negotiate for a lower price (im not going to negotiate or delay long enough for them to get friends). Why is this so? I'm taking a stab that its because at some point in the past all of these players, who probably venture in to lowsec from time to time, have had a ransom dishonored. So why is this an argument to dishonor ransoms? Well the way I see it is that if they are going to stop paying ransoms as soon as someone dishonors and you get someone that PAY a ransom, then it is likely their first or second ransom. Seeing as by the next time you kill them they will have probably met someone that dishonored the ransom and wont pay anyway, why not just take the isk and their killmail as well. Am i missing something here? I take it you ransom every single one of your targets and let them go wether they pay or not because battleclinic says you have never killed a ship or pod in your eve history.
Darth Skorpius Dark Side Cookies	Posted - 2009.07.03 12:11:00 - [26] Originally by: sp3cial forc3s Am i missing something here? I take it you ransom every single one of your targets and let them go wether they pay or not because battleclinic says you have never killed a ship or pod in your eve history. this because everyone knows that everykill and loss in eve is recorded on battleclinic /sarcasm off seriously dude, not everyone uses battle clinic (in fact many people hate it because you have ot be logged in to actually see killmails now) adn even then, not everyone posts the kill and loss mails from every fight they have every been in ______________________________________________ WTB New Sig. Convo me ingame
sp3cial forc3s Sileo In Pacis The Space P0lice	Posted - 2009.07.03 12:19:00 - [27] Originally by: Darth Skorpius Originally by: sp3cial forc3s Am i missing something here? I take it you ransom every single one of your targets and let them go wether they pay or not because battleclinic says you have never killed a ship or pod in your eve history. this because everyone knows that everykill and loss in eve is recorded on battleclinic /sarcasm off seriously dude, not everyone uses battle clinic (in fact many people hate it because you have ot be logged in to actually see killmails now) adn even then, not everyone posts the kill and loss mails from every fight they have every been in Ive never posted a km on BC either, yet 95% of my kills and losses are on there. Same goes for nearly every pilot in eve i imagine. Turn your sarcasm back on, you made more sense then.
Ta'jek Angels Of Death EVE Free Worlds Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.03 12:36:00 - [28] Originally by: sp3cial forc3s Originally by: Darth Skorpius Originally by: sp3cial forc3s Am i missing something here? I take it you ransom every single one of your targets and let them go wether they pay or not because battleclinic says you have never killed a ship or pod in your eve history. this because everyone knows that everykill and loss in eve is recorded on battleclinic /sarcasm off seriously dude, not everyone uses battle clinic (in fact many people hate it because you have ot be logged in to actually see killmails now) adn even then, not everyone posts the kill and loss mails from every fight they have every been in Ive never posted a km on BC either, yet 95% of my kills and losses are on there. Same goes for nearly every pilot in eve i imagine. Turn your sarcasm back on, you made more sense then. probably because someone else posted it from the other side of the killmail... battleclinic is very hit and miss but then again can be better then many private killboards where they never post losses...
Darth Skorpius Dark Side Cookies	Posted - 2009.07.03 12:37:00 - [29] Originally by: sp3cial forc3s Originally by: Darth Skorpius Originally by: sp3cial forc3s Am i missing something here? I take it you ransom every single one of your targets and let them go wether they pay or not because battleclinic says you have never killed a ship or pod in your eve history. this because everyone knows that everykill and loss in eve is recorded on battleclinic /sarcasm off seriously dude, not everyone uses battle clinic (in fact many people hate it because you have ot be logged in to actually see killmails now) adn even then, not everyone posts the kill and loss mails from every fight they have every been in Ive never posted a km on BC either, yet 95% of my kills and losses are on there. Same goes for nearly every pilot in eve i imagine. Turn your sarcasm back on, you made more sense then. oh yes, i forgot, your experience with something is indacative of everyone else ______________________________________________ WTB New Sig. Convo me ingame
sp3cial forc3s Sileo In Pacis The Space P0lice	Posted - 2009.07.03 12:46:00 - [30] Originally by: Darth Skorpius Originally by: sp3cial forc3s Originally by: Darth Skorpius Originally by: sp3cial forc3s Am i missing something here? I take it you ransom every single one of your targets and let them go wether they pay or not because battleclinic says you have never killed a ship or pod in your eve history. this because everyone knows that everykill and loss in eve is recorded on battleclinic /sarcasm off seriously dude, not everyone uses battle clinic (in fact many people hate it because you have ot be logged in to actually see killmails now) adn even then, not everyone posts the kill and loss mails from every fight they have every been in Ive never posted a km on BC either, yet 95% of my kills and losses are on there. Same goes for nearly every pilot in eve i imagine. Turn your sarcasm back on, you made more sense then. oh yes, i forgot, your experience with something is indacative of everyone else I think you mean indicative. And..... NO YOU!!!
Zedrik Cayne Gallente Standards and Practices	Posted - 2009.07.03 12:46:00 - [31] At some point in the recent-ish past...I had created an alt for the express purpose of offering ransoms and killing new folks (the lowsec I patrolled was about two jumps from a starter system..so you'd get an awful lot of new folks blundering into lowsec for the big 175k bounty rats) It would usually be their first PVP experience, as well as their first ransom experience. So I'd try to make it special. The script went along the lines of: Yarrrr! <insert victim's name here>. Heave to and turn your guns and <shield booster/armor repairer> off. (That's <control-space> to stop your ship) Welcome to the <system name elided> ransom service. For the low low price of <insert half ship value here> I'll let you go. And then wait for the response...usually you have to walk the new person through how to give isk. Some advice on how to avoid folks like me..etc. On any attitude, you blow them up, explain why you blew them up..that they could have avoided it by being polite and paying. If more folks would do that in lowsec... Well..it would be more amusing at least. RIP: Angela Goethrella....She made getting ransomed enjoyable. -- Originally by: "RedSplat" You're the internet equivalent of a Deepfried Mars bar filled with stupid.
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive	Posted - 2009.07.03 13:55:00 - [32] I'm waiting for Lana to try and ransom me so I can develop a severe case of Stockholm Syndrome. --Vel Experience is what you get right after you need it.
Harrigan VonStudly Underworld Excavators	Posted - 2009.07.03 14:04:00 - [33] I suppose the decision to honor or dishonor a ransom comes down to ones "profession" in Eve. If you're a die hard pirate I would think honoring them would be in your best interest. Honoring them has a much better chance that the target will pay again in the future be it to you again or others. Not honoring them is going to make them not pay ever again. There's carebear posts all over these here forums warning others not to pay ransoms. People are creatures of habit and I think that means there are better than average chances you may encounter them again. Where as dishonoring them could lead to shooting yourself in the foot, so to speak. And those honorable pirates out there hate pirates who dishonor ransoms for the very reason above. It's bad for future business. And may also lead to "this will be dealt with" for those who dishonor. I suggest Lana, that you keep at it and don't give up. It may be frustrating but... What if that guy you just blew up in his uber fit ship would have paid huge and the opportunity was missed because of "**** it just kill him cuz I'm too arsed to be bothered to ransom anymore"?
Crazy Tasty Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.07.03 16:36:00 - [34] Quote: I've recently been attempting to ransom players before we pop their ships, and its not been going well. 50% of people will outright refuse the convo, 50% of whats left will close convo as soon as you ransom them and everyone else has said no or tried to negotiate for a lower price (im not going to negotiate or delay long enough for them to get friends). Thats not a reason at all, but typical statistics for ransoms. Negotiation, done quickly, is part of the deal. If you don't like people saying no half the time, or trying to negotiate some of the other (nothing says you have to take a lower offer), then don't even bother ransoming. I will say this, 99% of the time, the ransom will be worth more than their **ty loot drop. You need to ransom more to hit the big scores also, we've ransomed capitals for billions and even had one eject on us, we've also paid people in faction ships a little isk to eject (ship + mods being worth much more). Further, being in a reputable corp will probably make your percentages go up. ------ // This is by design. When a ship jumps through a gate, it clears all aggression. // - BH ****** Pew on gate, if it gets hot, jump through and Ctrl-Q. Game mechanic endorsed by CCP.
Jimmy Duce Shards of Apathy	Posted - 2009.07.03 16:53:00 - [35] Originally by: The'Best Hellfury For the most part, if people ask for a ransom, I'll generally offer them one and honour it. Generally speaking though, I never offer them myself because I'm playing Killmails-Online. Confirming that this is a stupid game and u should really try wormhole extreme. I heard it acem ojut in Decembte. CCP, un nerf Jimmy else threadnaught begins... Entire corps fail... warning last cause improtant
Xikorita Saiyans United	Posted - 2009.07.03 18:09:00 - [36] Well, the first time I shoot a can flipper in my lv3 with my drake he returned on HIS drake to add insult to injury. He convoed me and ransomed for 100 millions. I had something like 15 mil and said so =(, expecting to be blown to bits. The guy said ALRIGHT and when I gave the money he actually disengaged. Talking about that with my friends from other games, they told me they would have shoot the CRAP out of me, heh. He was even polite, he said a fly safe and I learned a valuable lesson ;)
Rock urSocksoff Incura	Posted - 2009.07.04 01:43:00 - [37] Originally by: sp3cial forc3s Am i missing something here? I take it you ransom every single one of your targets and let them go wether they pay or not because battleclinic says you have never killed a ship or pod in your eve history. You're an idiot. Originally by: Saluss Its a bad world in EvE and everyone wants your Retail shuttle.
Jimmy Duce Shards of Apathy	Posted - 2009.07.04 01:58:00 - [38] Originally by: Xikorita Well, the first time I shoot a can flipper in my lv3 with my drake he returned on HIS drake to add insult to injury. He convoed me and ransomed for 100 millions. I had something like 15 mil and said so =(, expecting to be blown to bits. The guy said ALRIGHT and when I gave the money he actually disengaged. Talking about that with my friends from other games, they told me they would have shoot the CRAP out of me, heh. He was even polite, he said a fly safe and I learned a valuable lesson ;) "Pirates" under ransome carebears don't [real deep like 9 levels]
Cat Molina Minmatar Intransigent	Posted - 2009.07.04 02:50:00 - [39] No one ever ransoms me. MAKE ME AN OFFER!!!
Mach 1	Posted - 2009.07.04 03:18:00 - [40] Originally by: Jimer Lins Originally by: Lana Hellfury Originally by: Darth Skorpius the next time someone tries to ransom me, im gonna be a real smartass and offer them 0.01 isk less than what they are after Try that on me and i'll pod you on principal.. But would you pod me on interest? ;) No but I will on equity
Agent Known Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2009.07.04 05:21:00 - [41] I guess people don't honor them if they've been blown up in the past after paying a ransom. That happened to me once...and after that I would never pay a ransom unless it was a known pirate corp. Then again, I don't put myself into a position where I could be held down by a pirate and ransomed (again anyway).
Buil't2'r	Posted - 2009.07.04 05:32:00 - [42] LOL epic...A bunch of pirates talking of honour or actually doing anything they say too funny...If you pay a ransom your an idiot and deserved to get pop'd. Rule# 1 Never fly anything you cant afford to lose. damn bored pirates talking in their forums go scam somewhere or something perhaps you can scam the idea that any real mercs exist. To think someone would honor a deal that pops miners to kb hoard. Thanks for the laugh.
Rock urSocksoff Incura	Posted - 2009.07.04 05:54:00 - [43] Originally by: Buil't2'r LOL epic...A bunch of pirates talking of honour or actually doing anything they say too funny...If you pay a ransom your an idiot and deserved to get pop'd. Rule# 1 Never fly anything you cant afford to lose. damn bored pirates talking in their forums go scam somewhere or something perhaps you can scam the idea that any real mercs exist. To think someone would honor a deal that pops miners to kb hoard. Thanks for the laugh. u mad? Originally by: Saluss Its a bad world in EvE and everyone wants your Retail shuttle.
Rock urSocksoff Incura	Posted - 2009.07.04 05:54:00 - [44] yeah, u mad~ Originally by: Saluss Its a bad world in EvE and everyone wants your Retail shuttle.
sp3cial forc3s Sileo In Pacis The Space P0lice	Posted - 2009.07.04 08:03:00 - [45] Originally by: Rock urSocksoff Originally by: sp3cial forc3s Am i missing something here? I take it you ransom every single one of your targets and let them go wether they pay or not because battleclinic says you have never killed a ship or pod in your eve history. You're an idiot. I'm just stating facts.
Lana Hellfury Minmatar Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.07.04 10:40:00 - [46] Originally by: sp3cial forc3s Originally by: Rock urSocksoff Originally by: sp3cial forc3s Am i missing something here? I take it you ransom every single one of your targets and let them go wether they pay or not because battleclinic says you have never killed a ship or pod in your eve history. You're an idiot. I'm just stating facts. So was rock
Kaaii Caldari KaaiiNet Holding Executor Corp	Posted - 2009.07.04 10:58:00 - [47] Originally by: Lana Hellfury Originally by: Darth Skorpius the next time someone tries to ransom me, im gonna be a real smartass and offer them 0.01 isk less than what they are after Try that on me and i'll pod you on principal.. You have a long way to go, to be on the same ego level as Ginger Magician...keep posting. According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
DavesTheName	Posted - 2009.07.04 11:12:00 - [48] Because 9/10 people who play EVE aren't very nice, so there's a 90% chance you're going to pay your ransom and then get killed anyway. Statistically, refusing ransom and preferring instead to have your ship blown up makes perfect sense. The people who don't honour ransoms made it this way, so you can't come here whining that people won't pay your ransoms when in the same paragraph you admit you were going to take their ransom money and kill them anyway.
Tobarg Shh Minmatar	Posted - 2009.07.04 11:23:00 - [49] Originally by: sp3cial forc3s Originally by: Rock urSocksoff Originally by: sp3cial forc3s Am i missing something here? I take it you ransom every single one of your targets and let them go wether they pay or not because battleclinic says you have never killed a ship or pod in your eve history. You're an idiot. I'm just stating facts. Awww how cute, Special Forces :D Although, when your mom called you special, she thought of a different kind of special.
Enden Assulu Caldari Blood Money Inc.	Posted - 2009.07.04 11:40:00 - [50] Interesting to see people's views on ransoms, some people do reject the offer and will fill our ransom channel full of hate, others pay. Click the image!
Dapto Minmatar Dissolution Of Eternity Event Horizon.	Posted - 2009.07.04 12:07:00 - [51] The rule is Never Ever pay ransom as 90% of the time a pirate will kill you anyway so its a no win situation no matter how you look at it. Dapto
Lady Spank Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2009.07.04 12:17:00 - [52] Originally by: Dapto The rule is Never Ever pay ransom as 90% of the time a pirate will kill you anyway so its a no win situation no matter how you look at it. And how much experience do you have of being ransomed? from your statistics its got to be at least 10 times and you must have paid to know those figures..... otherwise your just speculating and spreading rumours. GG The quality of my replies is directly related to the QQuality of the opÆs comments
Rock urSocksoff Incura	Posted - 2009.07.04 12:52:00 - [53] Originally by: Lady Spank Originally by: Dapto The rule is Never Ever pay ransom as 90% of the time a pirate will kill you anyway so its a no win situation no matter how you look at it. And how much experience do you have of being ransomed? from your statistics its got to be at least 10 times and you must have paid to know those figures..... otherwise your just speculating and spreading rumours. GG Best Spank post ever tbqh. Originally by: Saluss Its a bad world in EvE and everyone wants your Retail shuttle.
Lady Spank Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2009.07.04 12:57:00 - [54] I have my moments. The quality of my replies is directly related to the QQuality of the opÆs comments
Taunting Yu Gallente The NightClub	Posted - 2009.07.04 13:00:00 - [55] Ok, maybe this is something that needs to be added into the game and posted with kb information. It goes something like this: Pirate A tackles Hapless Ratter B. Pirate A offers ransom of ship value. There is now an official means of tracking this via "Some New Interface" and even a special entry in the wallet as well as being exportable to killboards (or some other API information that can be extracted). If HR B accepts or declines the ransom, it gets posted for posterity. If Pirate A decides to renege, this also gets recorded. We can all now see who is 'honorable' and who isn't. It would even be a good way of tracking how much more profitable ransoming is than just ganking the target. (Course, it's never as profitable as backstabbing the target, but short term gains usually don't make long-term profits.) Hey, this could even add new aspects of e-peen waving to the game.
Lana Hellfury Minmatar Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.07.04 13:12:00 - [56] Originally by: Lady Spank I have my moments. You don't log in so i can test my ransom theories though.
Rock urSocksoff Incura	Posted - 2009.07.04 13:48:00 - [57] Originally by: Lana Hellfury Originally by: Lady Spank I have my moments. You don't log in so i can test my ransom theories though. In all fairness Spank was logged in all night asking (me) where the hell you were. I was kinda wondering myself Originally by: Saluss Its a bad world in EvE and everyone wants your Retail shuttle.
Great Artista Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.07.04 13:55:00 - [58] Hello, In my experience, people do pay ransoms if you convince them to do so. Its a way to combine social engineering with existing fame/notoriety of oneself, or more precisicely in my case; the fame of the corporation. People rarely outright reject convos, at least thats how it is on my case. Perhaps every 1/20 rejects the convo without saying a word. Some do ignore you when they accept convo, sure, but majority are interested in saving their ship or pod. Every now and then, people actually pay extra because I'm friendly and polite in the convos. Most of the people I ransom are at belts or anomalies. New players. But some do know Veto and its reputation for honouring ransoms, this helps so much that it is really worth keeping up the image. And yes, you can make a living solely from ransoming. ____ Rockets need a boost. CCP status: [_] Told. [x] Not told. ◕◡◕
Lady Spank Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2009.07.04 14:22:00 - [59] Originally by: Rock urSocksoff Originally by: Lana Hellfury Originally by: Lady Spank I have my moments. You don't log in so i can test my ransom theories though. In all fairness Spank was logged in all night asking (me) where the hell you were. I was kinda wondering myself This, plus I station camped you in Vylade before downtime ♥ I'm having a 4th July barbecue despite being British but I'll most likely be on later ^ _^ I still don't know how to counter pesky rifters ^_ ^ The quality of my replies is directly related to the QQuality of the opÆs comments
Jesslyn Daggererux Gallente Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.07.04 16:20:00 - [60] Originally by: Mach 1 Originally by: Jimer Lins Originally by: Lana Hellfury Originally by: Darth Skorpius the next time someone tries to ransom me, im gonna be a real smartass and offer them 0.01 isk less than what they are after Try that on me and i'll pod you on principal.. But would you pod me on interest? ;) No but I will on equity can i put it on my card? ------------------------- Originally by: Jesslyn Daggererux GREAT CHINESE WALL OF TEXT
Trellish The Perfect Storm Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2009.07.04 18:09:00 - [61] Originally by: Ralara Ask to be invited to the United ransom channel - see how they do it. They have about a 90% success rate - they get people to eject from tech 3 ships, sing on team speak etc... and one time we even trapped a caracal and made him fight the next target that came through the gate, gladiator style. Winner got to keep their ship :D That last one is pure WIN! We've done the sing for your ship one... gotta remember the gladiator approach though
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.07.04 18:14:00 - [62] Originally by: Lana Hellfury I've recently been attempting to ransom players before we pop their ships, and its not been going well. 50% of people will outright refuse the convo, 50% of whats left will close convo as soon as you ransom them and everyone else has said no or tried to negotiate for a lower price (im not going to negotiate or delay long enough for them to get friends). Why is this so? I'm taking a stab that its because at some point in the past all of these players, who probably venture in to lowsec from time to time, have had a ransom dishonored. So why is this an argument to dishonor ransoms? Well the way I see it is that if they are going to stop paying ransoms as soon as someone dishonors and you get someone that PAY a ransom, then it is likely their first or second ransom. Seeing as by the next time you kill them they will have probably met someone that dishonored the ransom and wont pay anyway, why not just take the isk and their killmail as well. Congratulations. You have rediscovered the tragedy of the commons.
Misanth Reaper Industries	Posted - 2009.07.04 19:22:00 - [63] I didn't read more than the OP so this reply is only relevant to that post.. either case; I'd say it's more likely the people you communicate with for a ransom, lack experience from being ransomed altogether, tbh. How many examples can you think of where people been ransomed more than once in their whole EVE career? I've only heard of one, and that was some story posted in here about some dude jumping back into a system where his two friendly pirates had ransomed him earlier.. most idio.. I mean players, should learn from their mistake, right? Kek. - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen.
Normin Bates	Posted - 2009.07.04 20:03:00 - [64] Yes. They should learn from mistakes. Like the mistake of paying a ransom and still losing their ship, implants AND the extra cash.
Sol'Kanar Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.07.06 13:30:00 - [65] Originally by: Malcanis Congratulations. You have rediscovered the tragedy of the commons. While on the surface this seems like it applies to people not honoring ransoms, you're missing something very important. A tragedy of the commons assumes that the resource shared by all is finite. If Eve had a static player base, it would be accurate. Fortunately, this is not the case as there are new players joining Eve all the time. Honoring ransoms is for squares.
Jesslyn Daggererux Gallente Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.07.06 15:48:00 - [66] Originally by: Sol'Kanar Originally by: Malcanis Congratulations. You have rediscovered the tragedy of the commons. While on the surface this seems like it applies to people not honoring ransoms, you're missing something very important. A tragedy of the commons assumes that the resource shared by all is finite. If Eve had a static player base, it would be accurate. Fortunately, this is not the case as there are new players joining Eve all the time. Honoring ransoms is for squares. maybe he means isk? i mean its not like it....just....comes from nowhere....right? ------------------------- Originally by: Jesslyn Daggererux GREAT CHINESE WALL OF TEXT
Joe Starbreaker The Fighting Republicans	Posted - 2009.07.06 15:52:00 - [67] I would never honor a ransom. That's like taking a bribe, and its an insult to my honor. If I have determined to murder someone and con them out of their money, by golly that's what I'm going to do. They can pay me if it pleases them, but they cannot make me do what my heart doesn't want to do. -/ the fighting republicans /-
Inat Mivea	Posted - 2009.07.06 16:57:00 - [68] well, I'm a noob and havent ventured into lowsec but from what i've read, I would never pay a ransom b/c more than likely three mins later, someone will pop me anyway - whether it is the original 'pirate' or not. I'm not a carebear at all but I wish 'pirates' had a reason to destroy my ship instead of just doing it. By killing on site, all you do is limit your future targets. think about it.... if you stop me, scan my cargo, ask for a small payment for 'passage' I'm still apt to travel through low sec, salvage in low sec, etc. One day, you're gonna find me with a hold full of tritanium. However by operating the way most 'pirates' do and kill me just b/c I am there, you're going to never have that chance b/c I wont be there - nor will many others.
Jonny 101 Endemic Aggression Exalted.	Posted - 2009.07.06 16:59:00 - [69] I ransomed a rorqual for 800m isk two days ago. The loot was rubbish.
Larkness modro Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2009.07.06 17:07:00 - [70] i always honor ransoms , it might not help my stats much but im of the honorable pirates - o7 to the old guard if only i could be pirating more these days - NRDS
Jonny 101 Endemic Aggression Exalted.	Posted - 2009.07.06 17:27:00 - [71] Originally by: Larkness i always honor ransoms , it might not help my stats much but im of the honorable pirates - o7 to the old guard if only i could be pirating more these days - NRDS You're a pathetic carebear in a rubbish alliance, go choke on veldspar.
Sun Clausewitz	Posted - 2009.07.06 17:35:00 - [72] I've paid a ransom and lived... He asked for a reasonable amount I've rejected ransoms and been popped... He asked for way too much I've also been asked for a ransom and not even been given the time needed to reply before I was popped... But, I only fly in a T1 ships with cheap fits and no implants, so your ransom demands must be low if you want me to pay. If not, I am only out the cost of an upgraded clone. If I am flying a T2 ship, it is in a war fleet, and then it's either kill or be killed so ransoms do not apply. Pick Three: Caldari/PVP/Solo/Success
Kale Kold Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.07.06 17:51:00 - [73] Originally by: Dario Wall I think it's not only the fact that some people dishonor the ransom, but the victim thinks by not paying it they are taking control of the situation. They probably have seen too many movies with the "we don't negotiate with terrorists" line in them. It's unfortunate since the majority of times, paying the ransom will cost them less than if they lose the ship. Yep, total madness. For example, i was on the gate with a few buddies and we tackled a freighter. So we ransomed for about 400 million. which we though was very fair. He basically smacked us and told us he would not pay so we blew him up and made 2 Billion on his loot. Total utter madness!!! lol! Just pay, you'll hurt less! Criminal Record
Thea Arsoniztik Fat J Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.07.06 18:51:00 - [74] Originally by: Inat Mivea well, I'm a noob Originally by: Inat Mivea I'm not a carebear at all Originally by: Inat Mivea One day, you're gonna find me with a hold full of tritanium. ROFLBROTHEL
Inat Mivea	Posted - 2009.07.06 18:56:00 - [75] Originally by: Thea Arsoniztik Originally by: Inat Mivea well, I'm a noob Originally by: Inat Mivea I'm not a carebear at all Originally by: Inat Mivea One day, you're gonna find me with a hold full of tritanium. ROFLBROTHEL
Syringe R.E.C.O.N. Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.07.06 19:26:00 - [76] My usual ransom holds at 10m or one third the value of their ship - whichever is highest. I honor my ransoms and several times I've caught people I've ransomed before who pay up specifically because I honored it last time. I've pulled ransoms out of people in Prov because they in at least one of their 600 intel channels, someone knows I'll leave 'em in one piece if they pay up. This is usually, of course, followed by the angry blob that CVA/Pets are so well known for. --------- War isn't the answer. However, the objective isn't to provide answers rather than eliminate the question.
Iece Quaan Caldari Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2009.07.06 20:37:00 - [77] Keep in mind that being ransomed is pretty humiliating. Plenty of people will just give you the finger not to go out like a *****. It probably would help to at least make it amusing for the victim and not try to be hard about it: '20m or die'. You can do better than that =) Some people may think that it may discourage you from the pirate's life. I think that's probably untrue, it'll just discourage you from ransoming at all. =P
thisisnotanalt	Posted - 2009.07.06 20:53:00 - [78] Given the situation of being scrambled by a pirate ship and teetering on structure, there are 3 outcomes: 1. You pay ransom, you get away. They get ISK. 2. You pay ransom, they dishonor it. You lost isk and ship. They got ISK. 3. You don't pay ransom, they blow you up. They get loot drop which is pretty sparse. In ALL cases, they get ISK and you lose ISK. Chose the option that gives you the most control over the situation which is to refuse/self destruct ship and deny them easy ISK. It's about dignity and the moral fibre of not capitulating. NEVER PAY RANSOM! LIVE FREE, DIE FREE!
KiloAlpha Southern Cross Trilogy	Posted - 2009.07.06 22:31:00 - [79] one of my corp mates can flipped a orca one time, i dont think the orca paid ransom
trenny jr	Posted - 2009.07.09 23:46:00 - [80] Originally by: sp3cial forc3s Originally by: Rock urSocksoff Originally by: sp3cial forc3s Am i missing something here? I take it you ransom every single one of your targets and let them go wether they pay or not because battleclinic says you have never killed a ship or pod in your eve history. You're an idiot. I'm just stating facts. not every one posts thir kill to battle clinic in fact battle clinic is the worst place to post kills the systems not very good better on a private KB or corp run killboard
Mire Stoude The Undesirables	Posted - 2009.07.10 04:08:00 - [81] Why don't people pay ransoms? Because it's not real lives at stake. So there is no fear and e-pride is the dominant emotional driver. You find a way to hold a gun to someone's head over the interwebs and I think the amount of ransoms paid would go up substantially.
Lao Xin Minmatar	Posted - 2009.07.10 04:54:00 - [82] If you're targeting new players and they're not paying their ransoms, chances are they came from amusement park ride MMO like LotR or WoW, where death means close to absolutely nothing, so they don't understand the true penalties and repercussions of losing ships, or perhaps, are in denial that any such repercussions exist.
PostmasterGeneral Minmatar yo i'm posting	Posted - 2009.07.10 05:13:00 - [83] i know you can spell better than that
Youjustwant Easykills	Posted - 2009.07.10 10:26:00 - [84] Originally by: Lao Xin If you're targeting new players and they're not paying their ransoms, chances are they came from amusement park ride MMO like LotR or WoW, where death means close to absolutely nothing, so they don't understand the true penalties and repercussions of losing ships, or perhaps, are in denial that any such repercussions exist. Either that or they fly what they canafford to lose and prize their dignity way above that. What feels worse to you - losing a ship worth hundreds of mil isk or a feeling of being rayped? I'd personally just lose isk.
Awesome Possum Insert Obscure Latin Name	Posted - 2009.07.10 16:59:00 - [85] Originally by: Youjustwant Easykills Originally by: Lao Xin If you're targeting new players and they're not paying their ransoms, chances are they came from amusement park ride MMO like LotR or WoW, where death means close to absolutely nothing, so they don't understand the true penalties and repercussions of losing ships, or perhaps, are in denial that any such repercussions exist. Either that or they fly what they canafford to lose and prize their dignity way above that. What feels worse to you - losing a ship worth hundreds of mil isk or a feeling of being rayped? I'd personally just lose isk. If you prize your dignity, and can feel as if you've been raped, in an MMO, you need to unplug the cat5. ♥ Wreck Disposal Services
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.10 17:09:00 - [86] Originally by: Lao Xin If you're targeting new players and they're not paying their ransoms, chances are they came from amusement park ride MMO like LotR or WoW, where death means close to absolutely nothing, so they don't understand the true penalties and repercussions of losing ships, or perhaps, are in denial that any such repercussions exist. Two posssible outcomes: Losing your ship and Losing the way too high ransom ammount + having pirates gain it so they can get more ships to kill you Probably losing your ship anyway Get an own C&P topic where the pirate inflates is ego How hard is the choice then really? Dont pay ransom.
Coldhearted One	Posted - 2009.07.10 18:27:00 - [87] Oh I remember when I just started to game. Some "Dawn of Eve(r)" (someone who has a character from the very beginning of Eve- '03) ransomed me to fill his jet cans with veldspar =( he came in and was watching me mine away in my baby Bantam lmao I told my friends and corpmates and then let MR. Billy Bad Arse keep his distance from while he was orbitting me and waiting for me to fill his cans up. I told him no and was waiting for him to jump me =( As he approached my ship, my friends came in their ships and he noticed the same tags as mine lol He ran like a little coward that he is So you can try and ransom me or tell me to mine for you but the second I dock i'm going to come out and sucker your pathethic excuse for being lazy. Pretty please come and try and get me to mine for you. I ll find u in your pod and take the security hit as long as I blow your cheapskate plus 3s sorry excuse for a toon away lmao Just don't sing it!!! Bring it you!!!! BTW Lana, I love you and your sister GL with Lady Spank!! I love women that are feisty!!! Us girls need to stand up and fight for each other YARRRRRRRRRRR!!!! rofl oh fly safe all
Tunak	Posted - 2009.07.10 19:24:00 - [88] Originally by: Dario Wall I think it's not only the fact that some people dishonor the ransom, but the victim thinks by not paying it they are taking control of the situation. They probably have seen too many movies with the "we don't negotiate with terrorists" line in them. It's unfortunate since the majority of times, paying the ransom will cost them less than if they lose the ship. It's not about costing me less. It's about providing less to you.
Ignitious Hellfury Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.07.11 01:28:00 - [89] Originally by: Lana Hellfury i'll pod you on principal.. Principle*
Zaphod Beeblebrox42	Posted - 2009.07.11 02:19:00 - [90] Edited by: Zaphod Beeblebrox42 on 11/07/2009 02:22:01 - While I have yet to be ransomed, one of my corpmates has. He didn't have the isk they asked for(and it was reasonable given the ship he was flying) so they gave him a choice of ejecting and saving his pod or them blowing him and his pod up. He chose to eject, they honored the agreement. While he wasn't happy that he lost his ship he held no ill will to the pirates that ransomed him(recognition of game mechanics ftw) and told the corp who they were and that if ransomed by them to pay it as they were true to their word. So as it stands every member in the corp, if confronted with these pirates, without enough support to stand a chance of winning, would gladly pay the ransom in order to keep their ship and pod, as we know they are true to their word. - While there seems to be plenty of reasons given not to honor a ransom, I believe this is plenty reason to honor the ransom. Especially if you're active in only specific areas, as most are (territorial nature I guess). When your name/corp name gets around as a pirate/pirate corp that honors ransoms you'll be less likely to run into people that refuse to pay. And after all, loot drops are a crapshoot, could be good could be bad. With a ransom, and a reputation for honoring them, you know exactly what you're going to get most of the time. Edit: TL:DR version. Honoring ransoms is good for business from a long-term economic standpoint. (that's long-term eve time, not real world.) __________________ Look, a forum alt!
Ho Trader	Posted - 2009.07.11 05:26:00 - [91] Edited by: Ho Trader on 11/07/2009 05:27:53 Well for me, I consider my ship exploded and pod squished as soon as I enter lowsec. That being said, I always clone jump before entering and ride in a ship that I can afford to lose. So I will never pay a ransom so if you have me scrammed go a head and pull the switch without asking for a ransom because It definitely will not be paid. Edited for horrific spelling. lol
Misanth Reaper Industries	Posted - 2009.07.11 13:44:00 - [92] Originally by: Ignitious Hellfury Originally by: Lana Hellfury i'll pod you on principal.. Principle* I see the Hellfury family is growing. How do you reproduce, binary fission? - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen.
Zill The Scope	Posted - 2009.07.12 01:20:00 - [93] Rasom doesnt work. Only an idiot pays for his ship.... People need to understand how ransom works. 1.Your scrammed an jammed you aitn going anywhere, an he has yo cold(along with the 5 other ships in his group) he then demands 100,000,000 for your ship.....this is whats gonna happen next You pay up an you die.. you dont pay up an you die.. This is what you "SHOULD DO" Stall for time an yell for help(prolly wont get there in time) unless they can cyno in. lol yer right... 2.You start swinging an set self destruct <-- this is the only one you need to do, EVER! your going to die anyway so make sure they get as little as possible off the deal. Overload mods so they get dmg'd. Eject ALL loot an destroy it as matter of priority... This way they get very little for their time. In years in eve I have never been ransomed, an they tried 3 times.
rubico1337	Posted - 2009.07.12 03:01:00 - [94] Originally by: Malcanis Congratulations. You have rediscovered the tragedy of the commons. actually, its an n-person iterated sequential prisoners delimma with a few diferences, where "defecting" for the pirate is accepting the cash and killing the vitctim, "cooperating" is honoring the ransom for the victim, "cooperating" is giving the cash, whereas defecting is not paying, looking at it from a payoff perspective the coase optimum is to pay the ransom, for the pirate dishonoring the ransom is the strong dominant strategy, because whatever the victim does he will always be better off killing the victim, because of this refusing the ransom is weakly dominant for the victim. the only way this can be changed is if you iterate the game. tod make it to where this encounter occurs several times over this is analogous to a tit for tat prisoners dilemma strategy, the exact same mechanism is seen in reciprocity in evolutionary biology. this is why many pirate corporations try to protect their reputation as honoring ransoms, and retaliate those who try to "defect" and take advantage of the system. the corporation, or conglomeration of pirates seek to continue the reputation of honoring ransoms, so disincentive other pirates from taking advantage of the system usually end up retaliating and griefing pirates who dishonor ransoms, veto is a good example of this R=ransom ammt S= ship value adjusted for insurance and rigs M=module value K=killmail value IF pirate honors, victim pays, payoff is pirate= R victim= -R IF pirate intends to honor, vitim doesnt pay, payoff is pirate= .5M + K victim= -S-M IF pirate dishonors, victim pays, payoff is pirate= .5M + K + R vicitm= -M - S - R + emorage IF pirate intends to dishonor, victim refuses, payoff is pirate= .5M + K victim= -S-M
Cyprus Black Caldari 4 wing Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.07.12 05:36:00 - [95] The ratio between honorable pirates and dishonorable pirates is highly skewed. Nine times out of ten that pirate will dishonor the ransom payment. Most players aren't stupid enough to pay ransoms against odds like that. ______________ Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

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