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DarthCaboose
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Posted - 2009.07.11 20:46:00 -
[151]
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this but...
TRADING!
And I don't mean NPC market hauling, I mean sell/buy order trading. As a newbie, you can fly around everywhere to get all the orders done from a central station or you could easily train Trade 2 + Marketing 2 (the biggest issue is Marketing, a 3.15 mil ISK skill) to quickly jump into setting up remote sell orders. At that basic level of effectiveness, you're ready to corner the market in a 5-jump radius. Sure, you can only make as much as you have, but learning how to work the market and watch your wallet blink every few minutes is a great experience.
Hell, have your new friends use buy orders to get their first +2 implants, it's a great experience to watch that time vs. money phenomenon come into place early on in your EvE life.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.07.11 23:11:00 -
[152]
 Originally by: DarthCaboose
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this but...
TRADING!
I mentioned it in post .89, pretty sure a few others did as well.
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Dirk Culliford
H A V O C
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Posted - 2009.07.12 02:36:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Sader Rykane
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
so rather then telling them to train up for a scram and mwd and get out there in some cheap frigs and have fun and learn how to pvp from day 1 you actually told them to not undock in 6 weeks because your gamestyle doesnt allow for any fun the 6 first weeks?
yeah, your truly a great friend
MWD's shutting off after 5 seconds and doing wet noodle dps is oh so fun.
Sounds more fun than your intended plan that's for sure
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Sader Rykane
Amarr
Midnight Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.07.12 12:17:00 -
[154]
Edited by: Sader Rykane on 12/07/2009 12:17:08
Originally by: DarthCaboose
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this but...
TRADING!
And I don't mean NPC market hauling, I mean sell/buy order trading. As a newbie, you can fly around everywhere to get all the orders done from a central station or you could easily train Trade 2 + Marketing 2 (the biggest issue is Marketing, a 3.15 mil ISK skill) to quickly jump into setting up remote sell orders. At that basic level of effectiveness, you're ready to corner the market in a 5-jump radius. Sure, you can only make as much as you have, but learning how to work the market and watch your wallet blink every few minutes is a great experience.
Hell, have your new friends use buy orders to get their first +2 implants, it's a great experience to watch that time vs. money phenomenon come into place early on in your EvE life.
I've got little to no experience when it comes to trading, so I probably never even mentioned it to them except maybe in passing.
Click for gallery! |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.07.12 13:27:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Sader Rykane
I've got little to no experience when it comes to trading, so I probably never even mentioned it to them except maybe in passing.
Anyway, the point is (after 6 pages of hurfblurf) that it doesn't "take too long to get started in EvE". There are loads of worthwhile, entertaining and exciting things that you can be doing from day 1. (Well... day 2; Day 1 should be spent doing the tutorial and start missions). Of course new players can't expect to achieve things on the same scale as 30M SP veterans - that's kind of the point of acquiring all those SP. But they can still fight, rat, mission, trade, salvage, scam, pirate, ore-thief, spy, scout... Jesus. Really, what more could you reasonably ask for in a game that has meaningful character progression?
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Dmitryilyin
Gallente
Risky eXplosion
Death or Glory
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Posted - 2009.07.13 11:17:00 -
[156]
I think that new character creation system is much worse then it was before.
When i started (Intaki Engineer) I had 900k sp, Engineering 5 Mechanic 5 and some other skills at level 5 if I remember correctly. So I did not suck at lvl1 missions and could use even some t2 modules and had pretty nice tank.
Special Forces and Soldier were even better.
Now new players have absolutely no skills and can't even fit frigate properly.
Yes, new system is nice if you want to make good alt ant train learnings faster from the begining, but for real new players who want to play and have no rich friends it is very bad.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.07.13 11:58:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Dmitryilyin
I think that new character creation system is much worse then it was before.
When i started (Intaki Engineer) I had 900k sp, Engineering 5 Mechanic 5 and some other skills at level 5 if I remember correctly. So I did not suck at lvl1 missions and could use even some t2 modules and had pretty nice tank.
Special Forces and Soldier were even better.
Now new players have absolutely no skills and can't even fit frigate properly.
Yes, new system is nice if you want to make good alt ant train learnings faster from the begining, but for real new players who want to play and have no rich friends it is very bad.
Things are still a hell of a lot easier for new player than when I started:
60k SP in some random skills
NO "100% learning bonus" to 1.6M SP
NO salvage
NO LP store; implants cost twice what they do now
NO Warp to 0Km
NO Eve University
Adv Learning skills couldn't be trained until you had the basic to level 5 <-- this makes a HUGE difference.
And yet I found a hell of a lot of things to do. I had an amazing first couple of weeks.
At the end of the day, people can accept the challenge or they can cry about the difficulties. New players have it absurdly easy compared to a couple of years ago. It took me 2 months to get anough ISK to get and fit a drake; a new player now can do it in a little over a week if he puts his mind to it (and many of them do)
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Badmin
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Posted - 2009.07.13 12:28:00 -
[158]
No:
-Learning provides bonuses for those who trained after being podded. Those who have not, do not get benefits 
-Those people whom do not have patience do not stay in eve  Yay! That means 1/2 your friends will be quitting in about 2 months anyway. CCP has undoubtedly intended this as a FEATURE not a mistake.
-This inhibits both  pirates and  isk sellers from building a minifleet of corp/miners in a week with impecable skills.
-Having a system that prohibits people from buying really expensive toys with only 2 months in game and then getting them go boom with their inexperience ensures they will play for longer.
There are more things that the current system helps with. Overall count yourself as lucky as the previous poster said. Eve was not so care bear only a few months ago, much less years.
Keep in mind, Eve is the only game where you can lose points. The only game where you do not smiply grind for an hour everytime you get knocked down a level and get back to 75.
PS: how do you get stuck running level 1 or 2 missions? I ran those within my first week =/. If i had trouble i got in fleet with someone in local and had fun with a small fleet. Is your friends not sociable or what?
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Lao Xin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.07.13 19:53:00 -
[159]
As a new player myself, you are ultimately assisted by players such as the corp you join. But really, spoon feeding a newb every single thing and forcing them to not do anything until you think they're "ready", isn't the solution.
Most people learn best from personal experience, so a lot of that info can go to waste and just end up giving them a super fit ship they don't know how to use. I've made some really stupid mistakes I wished some players would have warned me about, but really, the fact I did them means I know much more about and how to avoid a mistake than just being told not to do it because of so and so reasons.
I saw the same "get to endgame and then start playing" mentality in prev MMO's. They'd roll a healing class and not know a single thing about healing just dps'ing and have no group skills or know what certain tactics/abbreviations were. It's a lot better using what limited resources you have at the beginning so by the time you are a contender you don't have to learn them while dealing with the real game.
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Jotobar
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Posted - 2009.07.14 11:49:00 -
[160]
I agree with the op's approach on all but with one important caveat.
Eve is that rare game where information is by far the most important skill. This isn't something you aquire by putting things in the skill que, it's something you get from experience and looking up info on forums and other resources.
I like that you used your information advantage to give them a good start and most of us do (but to an less extreme degree) when our friends join, just hoping spoon feeding them didn't make them miss this much more important point.
Also putting it all in mem, skilling up the learning skills, then remaping int/mem to train electronics etc and then finaly remaping to a final more balanced aproach would probably been more effective.
Myself I salvaged a friends lvl4 for a couple of days and then turned that into a bil the first month while training the learning skills and having a blast.
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Nekopyat
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Posted - 2009.07.14 20:30:00 -
[161]
Why wouldn't a new player be able to fit a cruiser for L2 missions quickly?
Sure, you will loose the cruiser now and then.. oh wait, do you mean they can not fit for 100% success easy mode initially?
If one is willing to loose a few ships and not be uber the first couple months, there is no shortage of stuff to do. I am not even sure handing people skill books and implants is a good idea. Working your way up by, well, playing, can be rewarding and is kinda the point of playing a game.
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Lanais Suleia
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Posted - 2009.07.15 00:12:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Sader Rykane
TL;DR: To get new players (my friends) to be interested in Eve I have to spend 50,000,000 million isk and not let them undock for a month and a half. While also explaining to them that Eve isn't worth playing for the first month.
blahblahblah
Thanks for the TLDR, I stopped reading there. You're an idiot, and you're the person causing your friends to quit. |
Barakkus
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Posted - 2009.07.15 17:14:00 -
[163]
I dunno, I had fun my first few weeks trying to survive level 1 missions. I got a couple friends to join after that and *I* went with them so they could actually do something their first few days with little difficulty. You don't need to just log in and change skills for a month and a half, train some crap that lets you fit a a frig with enough stuff to kill other npc frigs, focus on serious stuff after you can actually pilot something. Maybe you should try flying with your friends to help make up for their lack of skills for a while...instead of giving them free money, buy them a frig or 2 and let them earn their cash, handouts take the fun out of stuff.
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Johan Marberg
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Posted - 2009.07.16 03:03:00 -
[164]
OK I've joined in the last 18 days and I gotta say that I found plenty to do in the first couple of weeks. Rating, mining, playing at freight hauler, messing with the market, lvl 1 missions (when I can find agents willing to talk to my lowly self), playing hide and seek with pirates in lo-sec, and hell just playing tourist and ohhing and ahhing at the pretty scenery. By giving people a pile of skills and cash you take away a lot of the early sense of acomplishment (OK so some friends spotted me a few mil so I could buy a couple of frigates and some skill books but I didn't station up at all). I bought my first Battle Cruiser after 8 days and I was happy as hell with the sense of achievement. Yes I'm a small fish. But it's my small fish. And I'm enjoying the hell out of it.
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Psiri
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Posted - 2009.07.16 06:40:00 -
[165]
With small login queues making themselves apparent again I'm becoming more confident in my suspicions that CCP aren't really looking to get more subscribers than what they currently have, not in the immediate future anyway.
EVE is unecessarily hard to get into, at least it's considerably harder to have an enjoyable experience for the first few months in comparison to other MMO's. I don't 'get' the fanbois who kick and scream the moment someone says it, oh well, I guess some of you are entitled to more kicking and screaming then.
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DrKuLa
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Posted - 2009.07.16 13:34:00 -
[166]
Edited by: DrKuLa on 16/07/2009 13:46:05
Originally by: Dmitryilyin
but for real new players who want to play and have no rich friends it is very bad.
I don't remember to have rich players back in 2003/4 so stop right now...
beside new players get a handfull skills freely given when they chose their avatar's face so by comparison it really didn't exist.
If that isn't good enough? Tought!
Just cry for CCP to give a Titan to all newbies to start with and soon we will see another one crying pointless topcis on the subject that titans are useless for newbies because they know s*h*i*t about the game mechanics.
I'm sorry but either you like a game or not... end of story
on my 1st week I joined a corp which provide me a fast pace start (good corps are out there keen on helping starters... just use common sense skills to find them)... and if today EVE is dull with all (possible options) back then was 20x dull since missions didn't exist like all other stuff.
So in that case lets create a topic to compensate all of those that endure training chars to reach to the point that they are atm over the years.
So if you don't know what a hell you are doing in this game for not enjoy it... but then is simple... rethink what you/your friends are doing wrong... or perhaps is not a game for you.
now be docked on 1st month because of skills that is simply patetic!
Pew Pew bang exists on EVE now either you train for it or not... pickup newbies if your newbie level doesn't allow bigger fish.
Or then pickup your axe/gun weapon and go bang-bang straight way on other games such as CoD/QuakeLive between many others that don't require to think too much nor train.
have fun here or in other game. Cheers
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SheriffFruitfly
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.16 18:30:00 -
[167]
/me shrugs
If it works for you guys, cool.
Me and my friend had fun from day one. About 2 years ago.
__________________________________________________________
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.07.17 01:15:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Sader Rykane
TL;DR: To get new players (my friends) to be interested in Eve I have to spend 50,000,000 million isk and not let them undock for a month and a half. While also explaining to them that Eve isn't worth playing for the first month.
Don't advise people if you don't know **** about the game.
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LUH 3472
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Posted - 2009.07.17 06:27:00 -
[169]
yes takes to long ot get started -i agree
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LUH 3472
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Posted - 2009.07.17 06:36:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Dmitryilyin
I think that new character creation system is much worse then it was before.
When i started (Intaki Engineer) I had 900k sp, Engineering 5 Mechanic 5 and some other skills at level 5 if I remember correctly. So I did not suck at lvl1 missions and could use even some t2 modules and had pretty nice tank.
Special Forces and Soldier were even better.
Now new players have absolutely no skills and can't even fit frigate properly.
Yes, new system is nice if you want to make good alt ant train learnings faster from the begining, but for real new players who want to play and have no rich friends it is very bad.
THIS
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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2009.07.17 09:47:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Sader Rykane
I think its working pretty well. Please list all the things you can do from day one please.
PVP, Mining, PVE...
Considering the huge amount of skill points and skills a new player gets plus the initial training time boost, I think it's never been better for a new starter.
if it is too slow for you, I'd suggest you find a different MMO as when you hit things like BS5, it gets slower 
Removed. Please keep your EVE signature related to your EVE persona and not that of a real life politician. Navigator |
Smokin' Dragon
Holy Grail Construction
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Posted - 2009.07.17 13:11:00 -
[172]
I remember my first dayh in eve....
went out in my ibis and killed a DG frig in Suroken (although i didnt know it at the time). Sold the loot for 1 mil and got straight in a fitted kestrel
WIN!!!
dont tell me you can do anything for the first month, what about pushing your noundaries and actually appreciating what all those support skills do?
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Nico Terces
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Posted - 2009.07.19 10:31:00 -
[173]
My first time eve was a trial somewhere in 2004, we started on like 20k skillpoints. I remember that we went beltratting, and 0.4 exploration. When we met a rat cruiser somewhere, we almost got killed. So we came up with strategies. In the end, we sent a scout drone on the cruiser to tank the cruiser, and it took about 10 minutes of shooting with our light electron blasters to down the rat.
Eve can be exciting when you're poor and your incursus means the world. Just explore all possibilities. I'm sure optimisation has it's charms, but newer players should not just train learning skills. Let them pot around a bit and let them do whatever they want. Eve does not revolve around learning skills.
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Sharp Feather
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.07.19 21:11:00 -
[174]
The OP is totaly right and you guys with your pseudo solution should shut up and thumbs up. 
=================================================
Before: Developers loved games and made money.
Now: Developers love money and make games. |
Proyaus
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Posted - 2009.07.20 17:30:00 -
[175]
Edited by: Proyaus on 20/07/2009 17:30:27
I some what agree with the OP, i tell all my friends that start the game that you could train for the first 3 months and do nothing else in the game. I also tell them to expect slightly sub par game at first, but it becomes the best game you will ever play the longer you play.
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Ixxius
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Posted - 2009.07.20 18:04:00 -
[176]
Didn't bother reading anything is this thread past the OP. That being said, as of today I'll be finished with my first month on this character past my 2 week trial. So, six weeks total. In that time I have:
1. Gotten my learning skills up to 4 on the lower and 4 on the advanced level.
2. Put myself in a Battlecruiser which can tank almost every level 4 mission.
3. Trained up using T2 drones.
4. Bought a full set of +4 implants.
5. Worked up my Brutor Tribe rep to almost 10.
6. Made enough money off of missions, salvaging, and the market to buy a PLEX card to fund my next month of playtime while also having 400 million ISK left.
The only way I cheated? I had a buddy join up with me at the same time and we've been running missions together. Which seems like exactly what you and your friends could do as well. Probably much better since there are seven of you or whatever.
CCP and EVE have a lot of faults. Yes, it does take time getting started and can be somewhat boring. Still, you can do lots of stuff and you can make ISK. Telling your friends to sit out for an entire month and a half basically screwed them out of around a BILLION ISK if they were even semi-competent with your help and only played a few hours every day.
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m3rb3aSt
Minmatar
Advanced Component Research Enterprise
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.07.20 19:15:00 -
[177]
we have had a day old newbie tackle a dread before and plenty of them holding down people in cheap AB tackling frigates. being in goonswarm is proof that a day old newbie can have a use in pvp.
you are totally 100% wrong.
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Siobhan Amarr
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Posted - 2009.07.21 02:08:00 -
[178]
Personally I'd like a logarithmic skill point gain so that the more skill points you gain, the slower you gain more to try to level the playing field between those just starting the game and those that have 40+ mill SPs. to counter the perceived "nerf" for the long-term players, reduce the SP multiplier for some of the longer skills so the net effect is newer players gain SPs much faster, less new players get a slight to moderate increase and the oldest players stay about the same.
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Belmarduk
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2009.07.21 11:28:00 -
[179]
WHY CANT I FLY A TITAN YET ???????????????
CCP I seriously think that after nearly 4 years I should be able to fly a titan plus own an alliance and I also want A LOT of FREE cake.
Thx for listening
Belmarduk
Mainchar:
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DarthCaboose
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Posted - 2009.07.21 16:50:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: DarthCaboose
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this but...
TRADING!
I mentioned it in post .89, pretty sure a few others did as well.
Oh yeah... Still, it goes without mentioning that trading is one of the best "passive" money makers out there.
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