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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.07.09 18:39:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom
You mean the situation, for the most part, as it already exists?
No. Currently, salvage isn't part of the mission rewards — that's why it's not yours and why collecting it doesn't get anyone flagged. Just because you choose to engage in the salvaging profession alongside your mission running doesn't mean that the salvage is yours just because you did the mission — it's yours because you choose to salvage it.
Quote:
I can't speak for others but I very very rarely see a ninja salvager and on the rare occasion I do he usually goes off empty handed.
So there is no problem then, and nothing needs to be changed. Good to know.
Quote:
Quote:
Ninjas put as much effort into getting that salvage (more, in fact), and are therefore as entitled to it as you are.
Stuff and nonsense of the highest order.
Let's compare.
The mission runner has to: scoot over to within 20 (or 40) km of the wreck and activate his tractor beam and then his salvager. He's already on site and knows where the wrecks are.
The ninja salvager has to: scan the system for potential mission sites. Evaluate whether they might contain something useful. Narrow the scan down to a warpable hit. Travel to where the mission runner has left the wrecks. Travel to within 5-7km of each wreck and activate his savager.
No, I do think the ninja has to do more work.
Quote:
Compare that to the months and months of missioning to be able to even TALK to an L4 agent, the required cost of the ship needed to survive in an L4 and the time it takes to run one.
Which (again) is why the mission runner is rewarded for his effort: rewards, bonuses, LP, standings, loot, bounties. The ninja's lack of effort means he misses out on all of this.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Paul Clavet
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2009.07.09 18:48:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Kel Nissa
Originally by: Paul Clavet
If you don't "get" that, go back and read those again. Then think about your suggestion that salvaging give aggro. Is that really what you want? More missionrunners in PvE-fit ships firing on disposable ninja frigates, giving them aggro. Really?
You are a moron and talk about stuff which is clearly out of scope.
Okay maybe i should explain it because it seems like you really beleave what you are writing:
facts:
1) most of the current salvaging threads asks for flag mechanic#
2) the ninja salvager can flag easily by stealing loot - when he wants to do so
1+2 = your described problem is not existing, because actually the ninjas already proven that they are not interested into engagements.
Amazing. My entire point was that we (Suddenly Ninjas) welcome engagements, and I posted documentation of terrible losses on the part of missionrunners who shot at us when flagged. Then you quoted me while cutting out my actual argument, agreed with me, and started calling names. You must have been stellar in your debate classes.
Your proposed solution is to flag for salvaging as well as looting. Alrighty then. How will that change anything for us? We'll warp in, salvage, loot, and the missionrunner will either not shoot for fear of retaliation, or shoot and then have to dock up his PvE ship before he loses it.
There is no problem on our end with giving aggro rights based on salvaging. However, I'll tell you what will happen when you do that: More missionrunners losing CNRs. You want to shoot us? Fine. We want you to shoot us too! How do you feel about that?
The logical conclusion of what you are proposing is merely a redistribution of what you think is the problem. Yes, you will be able to shoot at our worthless salvage frigates sooner. From that moment forward, though, your mission is effectively over, because we have aggro on any ship you bring out, and you have no idea which ninjas have gank ships in station and which do not.
Perhaps CCP will take some pity on us ninjas and implement the flagging change you propose on a 90-day trial basis. I figure that during those three months, we'll make enough from faction-fitted battleships shooting at us to pay for enough PLEX to keep every member of Suddenly Ninjas playing for the next two or three years. 
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Suddenly Ninjas
Blog: My Loot, Your Tears
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Kel Nissa
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Posted - 2009.07.09 18:54:00 -
[63]
You talk about engaging, but the trueth is that most times suddenly ninjas avoid looting stuff.
And no prove that im right or wrong. Its really up to you and it also does not matter, because you are unable to prove it. People who had their issues with ninjas know the answer.
The existense of nearly weekly"please flag ninjas" threads on the other side prove that there is a problem with ninja salvagers avoiding flagging.
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Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente
The Flying Tigers
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Posted - 2009.07.09 18:57:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Tippia
No. Currently, salvage isn't part of the mission rewards ù that's why it's not yours and why collecting it doesn't get anyone flagged. Just because you choose to engage in the salvaging profession alongside your mission running doesn't mean that the salvage is yours just because you did the mission ù it's yours because you choose to salvage it.
For all practical purposes, for many mission runners (I have no idea if it's most or not) that all amounts to the same thing. I stand by my position and am not at all interested in the semantics of it.
Quote:
So there is no problem then, and nothing needs to be changed. Good to know.
Hardly. The very fact that this change gets asked for constantly and the fact that ninjas are griefers make asking for change perfectly sensible. I don't have to live in Darfur to think what's going on there is wrong or to support something being done about it. One can want something they see as wrong to be changed even if it doesn't affect them personally.
Quote:
The mission runner has to: scoot over to within 20 (or 40) km of the wreck and activate his tractor beam and then his salvager. He's already on site and knows where the wrecks are.
Come now Tippia, you can do much better than that. Getting the wreck, to the mission runner, also involves getting the mission, flying to it. Tanking it. Creating the wreck. THEN salvaging, looting etc. Since he isn't stealing it all that generation work is required or there is no wreck to salvage. Your analogy only works if you divorce the wreck's creation from the actual act of salvaging. For a mission runner they are all part of the same activity. The running of the mission proper equates to scanning the mission and is much more work and more expensive. Evaluating if it's worth the time is precisely the same.
We're not going to agree on this you know.
May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk
(Old Egyptian Blessing) |
Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente
The Flying Tigers
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Posted - 2009.07.09 19:03:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Paul Clavet
There is no problem on our end with giving aggro rights based on salvaging.
Really? Then why is it every time one of these threads comes up you are all over it advocating that the status quo remain?
On the above point, we're entirely in agreement. Let's have that aggro flag! If you actually mean that and actually speak for your corp's position, as you are indicating here, then let's see a whole slew of posts from the Ninja crowd agreeing with the OP that there should be a flag!
Well, come on - put up or shut up!
Of course, we won't see that, because it's patently nonsense. That is absolutely something that you do not want to see or you wouldn't be posting in this thread about how the current situation is legal and should not change. You're just trying to scare people with a situation you can now create any time you choose.
Well, it's like this: Bring. It. On.
It won't remove ninja salvaging from the game in the least - but it will add some risk and take out the carebear ninjas hiding behind Concord.
It's what I've been advocating for months and I said as much to your CEO more than once.
May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk
(Old Egyptian Blessing) |
Paul Clavet
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.07.09 19:04:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom
Originally by: Paul Clavet
It's what, 100 million per week? That's four man-hours of running L4 missions. How is that difficult for the types of corps most impacted by Suddenly Ninjas?
Mmmmhmmmm.
So let's see - your argument is "I get to grief you unless you want to give up even BIGGER chunks of your profit." Sure.
Why'd you put the Alliance in place then, if not to make wardecs harder? Since you don't hold Sov or need to defend space the only reason I can think of to have one is to intentionally make wardecs more expensive.
Were the wars interfering too much with your salvaging?
Why do you have a car, if not to mow down helpless elderly nuns? Since vehicular homicide is the most dastardly motivation for owning a vehicle, it must be YOUR motivation!
Please. We've been in dozens of wars since we formed TEARS. The 90mil extra isn't stopping anyone who has serious problems with us.
A multitude of corps, some salvagers and some not, have joined us. A good example is Ironfleet, which shares the ideals of Suddenly Ninjas but isn't generally focused on ninja salvaging as a primary profession.
I think your real issue here is with our existing in the first place. You want your missionrunning to be safe and pleasant, and emorage on the forums when you have to do anything to counter any touch of human interaction in your copy of Hello Kitty Spaceship Adventure.
----
Suddenly Ninjas
Blog: My Loot, Your Tears
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.07.09 19:06:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom
I stand by my position and am not at all interested in the semantics of it.
Tough, because those semantics are what guide the CCP stance on the matter. Want to change that stance? Then you need to argue the semantics.
Quote:
The very fact that this change gets asked for constantly and the fact that ninjas are griefers make asking for change perfectly sensible.
No, it only means that mission runners don't understand what "griefing" is and/or haven't researched the rules of the game. It demonstrates ignorance on the player's part — not a problem with the game mechanics (although it could be argued that there is a problem with the lack of education for up-and-coming mission runners).
Quote:
Come now Tippia, you can do much better than that. Getting the wreck, to the mission runner, also involves getting the mission, flying to it. Tanking it. Creating the wreck. THEN salvaging, looting etc.
And again: he's already being rewarded for everything up until the salvaging part. Only then does the salvaging begin. If you want to compare the efforts involved in salvaging, compare the right parts.
Quote:
For a mission runner they are all part of the same activity.
That's just another part of their ignorance about the mechanics — much like how many mission runners are ignorant about how their missioning impacts mining.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Insa Rexion
Minmatar
Ray of Matar Assembly
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Posted - 2009.07.09 19:52:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Insa Rexion on 09/07/2009 19:52:52
DP
well mannered a**h***
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Insa Rexion
Minmatar
Ray of Matar Assembly
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Posted - 2009.07.09 19:52:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Insa Rexion on 09/07/2009 19:56:50
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Ninjas, and anyone else who repeats the propaganda CCP spreads, would have you believe that Salvaging is a profession like Mining or Trade.
CCP don't create propaganda, they create EVE, they create the rules and they created salvaging as a profession. Please will you all just finally get over this, you are being pathetic.
Quote:
Salvage -could- be a profession of its own. But it's not. It's a side effect of shooting stuff. Mission runners shoot stuff a lot, as do miners (belt rats). Anyone who blows up a ship has the opportunity to salvage.
Why do you assume that proffessions in Eve must be insular or independent of each other, salvaging is not broken merely because it may have to interact with other proffessions to succeed.
PS ... nerf missions 
well mannered a**h***
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
The NightClub
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Posted - 2009.07.09 20:17:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Insa Rexion
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Ninjas, and anyone else who repeats the propaganda CCP spreads, would have you believe that Salvaging is a profession like Mining or Trade.
CCP don't create propaganda, they create EVE, they create the rules and they created salvaging as a profession. Please will you all just finally get over this, you are being pathetic.
PS ... nerf missions
It is little more than propaganda, when they do nothing to back up their claims.
"CCP says salvaging is a profession" keeps getting repeated over and over...
And yet there is no definitive evidence in the game to support that claim.
- Wrecks would not exist, unless the mission runner had killed them
- The rats those wrecks came from would not have existed, unless the mission runner had accepted the mission.
- The wrecks are tagged for the victor's corporation. Only they and their fleet can tractor the wrecks.
My suggestion is simple, and it does not drastically alter the balance of the game in any way.
Grav sites are not an "exploration" thing, they are a mining thing.
Mag sites shouldn't be limited to explorers, since they require salvaging skill to exploit. And if that signature were expanded to cover recent battlefields, then it wouldn't be an "exploration" thing, it'd be a salvaging thing.
Adding the separation of wrecks and loot would only further enable salvagers to collect the wrecks without having to motor from one to another. |
Paul Clavet
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2009.07.09 20:39:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
It is little more than propaganda, when they do nothing to back up their claims.
"CCP says salvaging is a profession" keeps getting repeated over and over...
And yet there is no definitive evidence in the game to support that claim.
I'm sorry, I didn't realize that CCP has to meet your standards of "evidence" to back up their policies and implemented game mechanics.
Multiple GMs have stated that salvaging is working as intended. Not a single GM has stated that there is any intention of it working in any way other than it is currently. There is no aggro given for salvaging from the wreck of an NPC killed by another character. What, exactly, are you hoping for?
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
- Wrecks would not exist, unless the mission runner had killed them
- The rats those wrecks came from would not have existed, unless the mission runner had accepted the mission.
- The wrecks are tagged for the victor's corporation. Only they and their fleet can tractor the wrecks.
"CCP has repeatedly stated that non-consensual PVP piracy is a part of the game and is working as intended. However, I see no reason to believe their salaried employees when they say this, since obviously there is ZERO evidence in the game to support their amoral pro-pirate viewpoint.
(Insert a list of bullet-pointed justifications for why pirates are big mean poopy heads for doing something that their victims do not like. Leave off the preponderance of evidence that the game is doing exactly what CCP programmed it to do.)
See! SEE! Because I find piracy to be distasteful, it is OBVIOUSLY not what CCP intended, even though they say that it is, and their code reflects their official statements! I demand more evidence! I demand moral justification! I demand Hello Kitty Spaceship Adventure!"
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Suddenly Ninjas
Blog: My Loot, Your Tears
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Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente
The Flying Tigers
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Posted - 2009.07.09 20:56:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Paul Clavet
Please. We've been in dozens of wars since we formed TEARS. The 90mil extra isn't stopping anyone who has serious problems with us.
A multitude of corps, some salvagers and some not, have joined us.
Why yes. All of four corps besides Suddenly with a total between them of 20 members. One of them has one. The one you cite has 5.
Wow. You Sooooo need an Alliance for those 20 folks. I don't know who you think you're fooling, but it isn't me.
Quote:
I think your real issue here is with our existing in the first place. You want your missionrunning to be safe and pleasant, and emorage on the forums when you have to do anything to counter any touch of human interaction in your copy of Hello Kitty Spaceship Adventure.
Yawn. If you're trying to get my goat with baiting you simply fail. I spend well over 90% of my time in Tenal little carebear. Feel free to come visit. I don't mind you existing and I don't mind you dropping into my missions. I just want to be able to kill you when you steal. It's honestly as simple as that.
As for standing up to your tirades in the forums, I tend to do that when it comes to things I believe in -and in the real world too.
By the way, based on the ship losses on your killboard I'm REALLY not overly afraid of your threats of coming back with a wtfsolopwnmobile. Not when you lose two ships for every one you kill. Granted your ISK balance is a bit better than even, but that will happen when you pick on expensive ships that can't really fight back instead of fighting competent people I suppose.
May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk
(Old Egyptian Blessing) |
Malcolm R3ynold5
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Posted - 2009.07.09 20:57:00 -
[73]
Ninja salvagers are not really salvagers, as already mentioned in many threads the majority are just griefers. That is currenty allowed by CCP, both via game mechanics and from what they have stated and even though i am prodomently a mission runner myself, i don't see a problem with how this works.
If a ninja warps into my mission i can simply warp out, he gets the aggo. Oh no, it will add a few mins to my mission complete time...big deal, that's something i have to put up with as its part of the game, i ain't gonna whine about it.
But i do agree that salvaging could become more of a profession for the people who do want to salvage for a living.
I think the idea of wrecks turning into a Mag site (or new kind of site) is a good thing, as currently you have to scan a player down while he is still in the mission. If the wrecks/deadspace area became a site, it would still be available to salvage after the player had left (as you would still be able to scan it down).
I know our corp every now and then will fleet up 20 or so members to blast through a few missions. We are just doing it for fun, have a chat etc and we dont bother looting or salvaging, would can easily blast through 10-20 level 4 missions in an afternoon. With the way proposed, this would allow all this salvage to be available for alot longer.
You could also add some sort of timer, to allow loot to become free-for-all if not claimed within a certain time. That way the professional salvager could make more isk from loot aswell.
Mal
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Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente
The Flying Tigers
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Posted - 2009.07.09 21:12:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Tippia
Tough, because those semantics are what guide the CCP stance on the matter. Want to change that stance? Then you need to argue the semantics.
Sorry, no. Arguing semantics is for philosophers and politicians. I prefer to stick to reality. Hopefully CCP will as well, but that remains to be seen, I suppose.
Quote:
No, it only means that mission runners don't understand what "griefing" is and/or haven't researched the rules of the game. It demonstrates ignorance on the player's part ù not a problem with the game mechanics (although it could be argued that there is a problem with the lack of education for up-and-coming mission runners).
Oh without question that last is true. There is far too much taking advantage of people's lack of knowledge about how things work in order to blow up helpless people. It's all over EVE. Indeed, someone tried it with my wife's Hulk just the other day and she asked me (as she's not a PvP player) how to handle the guy being aggroed to her when he swiped some loot. I took one look at his ship and said, "You're in a Hulk - ignore him, he's just baiting you so he can shoot you without getting Concorded."
It's very common.
As to what 'griefing' is - I'm afraid we'll disagree on that too. To me it's ruining someone else's game experience, plain and simple. EVE is, in fact, a cold harsh universe and isn't for everyone. I'm not recommending in any way keeping folks out of mission space completely (although I do think it's currently much too easy which is immersion breaking as the NPCs often state that they 'can't find things in deadspace' etc.) or that people just shouldn't be allowed to salvage. Not in the least.
I'm just saying let mission runners who want to shoot them do so. Hardly the end of the world.
And again: he's already being rewarded for everything up until the salvaging part.
Yes. Poorly. None of this would be an issue if salvage didn't make up between 25% and 75% (and sometimes much more) of the total mission take. For a L1 I once helped a newbie with the Salvage was FOURTEEN TIMES the total of the bounties, mission pay etc. etc. combined.
If it was 5% or 10%, we almost certainly wouldn't be having this conversation. But it's not.
Quote:
For a mission runner they are all part of the same activity.
That's just another part of their ignorance about the mechanics ù much like how many mission runners are ignorant about how their missioning impacts mining.
Another straw man argument and entirely irrelevant to the point.
May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk
(Old Egyptian Blessing) |
Khalia Nestune
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.07.09 21:21:00 -
[75]
Whineage threads make my day. <3
I've only got to say what I've said before: I've no problem with making salvage an agro offense.
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Galmarr
Gallente
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.07.10 16:30:00 -
[76]
I think Jarvis Hellstrom should be flagged for excessive posting. CCP should look into this.
Get some sleep, get a job, take your wife out to dinner.
GET A LIFE
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Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente
The Flying Tigers
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Posted - 2009.07.10 17:09:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Galmarr
I think Jarvis Hellstrom should be flagged for excessive posting. CCP should look into this.
Get some sleep, get a job, take your wife out to dinner.
GET A LIFE
Like some cheese with that whine Galmarr?
Actually I commonly work 11.5 hour days as standard (including the commute) have a wife, a two and a half year old daughter, run three conventions in different cities across the continent - the local one is tomorrow and Sunday for instance - and have two other major hobbies, one of which I was the Canadian National Champion for several years ago.
If anything I have too much life for proper EVE play - isn't it wonderful that I can find the time to expend just on you?
Gotta love multitasking!
May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk
(Old Egyptian Blessing) |
Insa Rexion
Minmatar
Ray of Matar Assembly
|
Posted - 2009.07.10 17:27:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Insa Rexion on 10/07/2009 17:29:43
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Originally by: Insa Rexion
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Ninjas, and anyone else who repeats the propaganda CCP spreads, would have you believe that Salvaging is a profession like Mining or Trade.
CCP don't create propaganda, they create EVE, they create the rules and they created salvaging as a profession. Please will you all just finally get over this, you are being pathetic.
PS ... nerf missions
It is little more than propaganda, when they do nothing to back up their claims.
"CCP says salvaging is a profession" keeps getting repeated over and over...
And yet there is no definitive evidence in the game to support that claim.
So, they developed the concept, implemented the content, called it a mini proffession and told the entire player base about it and how they were free to engage in this knew proffession, but that is in fact just propaganda because the truth is..... SALVAGERS DO NOT EXIST !!!! (at least not professionally, perhaps they have amateur status....Olympic salvagers )
Are you mad ? The fact that you guys have to create thread after thread about salvaging is evidence enough that there are plenty of folk choosing to make a living from salvaging and clearly doing it professionally enough to annoy you mission runners
BTW.. I am an ex-olympic salvager who was proud to represent my country, altho I tested positive for boosters and was thrown out of the squad in disgrace.
well mannered a**h***
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Galvatine
Caldari
Dark Materials
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Posted - 2009.07.10 17:40:00 -
[79]
Love the website ninjas :D It's great to see so many tears over something so trivial
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Kel Nissa
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Posted - 2009.07.10 17:44:00 -
[80]
Which tears?
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Galvatine
Caldari
Dark Materials
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Posted - 2009.07.10 17:53:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Kel Nissa
Which tears?
The entire thread is a gush of tears, just like all the other waa waa ninja salvaging ones.
Its not broke, and does not require fixing
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Kel Nissa
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Posted - 2009.07.10 17:55:00 -
[82]
Quote:
The entire thread is a gush of tears, just like all the other waa waa ninja salvaging ones.
Its not broke, and does not require fixing
Good hypothesis.
Can you prove it?
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Galvatine
Caldari
Dark Materials
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Posted - 2009.07.10 17:59:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Kel Nissa
Quote:
The entire thread is a gush of tears, just like all the other waa waa ninja salvaging ones.
Its not broke, and does not require fixing
Good hypothesis.
Can you prove it?
Of course, the mechanics work the way they do, ccp have stated dozens of times that its working as intended. Case proved.
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Kel Nissa
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Posted - 2009.07.10 18:27:00 -
[84]
Evasive maneuver detected.
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Roger Douglas
Infinite Improbability Inc
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.07.10 18:56:00 -
[85]
The TEARS guy is speaking truth to you missioners. You're ships aren't fit for PVP the way theirs are, and you will be back here crying for salvaging to be a CONCORDable offense after the greifing it will cause when it becomes as common as canflipping noob miners.
Better to let this sleeping dog lie, no matter how much it bothers you.
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Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente
The Flying Tigers
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Posted - 2009.07.10 19:29:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Roger Douglas
The TEARS guy is speaking truth to you missioners. You're ships aren't fit for PVP the way theirs are, and you will be back here crying for salvaging to be a CONCORDable offense after the greifing it will cause when it becomes as common as canflipping noob miners.
Better to let this sleeping dog lie, no matter how much it bothers you.
Nah.
1) They can already generate aggro anytime they want by taking loot with the salvage but mostly don't (there are some exceptions). This indicates that most of them don't actually want a fight and:
2) Suddenly Ninjas and their TEARS alliance Kill Board performance is not awe inspiring or indicative of mad PvP skills. Not when you look at 600 odd kills to over 900 losses. Looking at the kinds of ships they fly is even less scary.
I'm no great shakes PvP master by any means, but I certainly wasn't scared. Nor even impressed. But by all means don't take my word for it. Google their KB and read it for yourself.
May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk
(Old Egyptian Blessing) |
Paul Clavet
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2009.07.10 19:46:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom
2) Suddenly Ninjas and their TEARS alliance Kill Board performance is not awe inspiring or indicative of mad PvP skills. Not when you look at 600 odd kills to over 900 losses. Looking at the kinds of ships they fly is even less scary.
I'm no great shakes PvP master by any means, but I certainly wasn't scared. Nor even impressed. But by all means don't take my word for it. Google their KB and read it for yourself.
Here's a link to our killboard: http://tears.evekb.co.uk/?a=home
We are not a dedicated PvP alliance. We never claimed to be. While we have some dedicated PvP combat pilots, they do not constitute a majority of the alliance.
Yes, we tend to lose more ships than we kill. Of course, the vast majority of our ships are FRIGATES, while we pop an awful lot of very expensive battleships.
And guess what? We were wardecced by Privateers this morning, so I expect the kill/loss ratio to get worse over the next week, until they get bored and move on to their next target.
You may not have to fear being trounced by SN/Tears during a wardec, but losing your PvE ship after shooting at a ninja is a distinct possibility. THAT was my point.
What Roger Douglas said is the heart of the issue. If salvaging becomes aggro-flagging, then missionrunners who thought that their hard times are over will be in for a harsh lesson when they begin swatting those pesky ninja frigates. Then the threads will be about eliminating third-party salvaging altogether, which CCP has stated will not happen.
My question to you is: In your perfect world where ninja salvaging flags for aggro, how many times will you have to dock up your CNR after shooting at a ninja before the loss of efficiency starts to hurt your bottom line? Or will you just not shoot at ninjas at all when you want to carebear in safety?
----
Suddenly Ninjas
Blog: My Loot, Your Tears
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Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente
The Flying Tigers
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Posted - 2009.07.10 19:46:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Kel Nissa
Which tears?
Anyone who dares to advocate a change to their precious status quo which makes them largely immune to any kind of retaliation is 'crying' don't you know.
Never mind that most of us have barely even seen a ninja (the number I've seen can be counted on the fingers of one hand with some left over) and, hence, have little to no appreciable losses to them.
Anyone who disagrees is 'crying'. Couldn't possibly just be asking for change to what they see as a broken mechanic. Nope.
I would leave them to their delusions but I don't want CCP to actually believe their opinion is in the majority by their burying every request for change with noise rather than signal.
May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk
(Old Egyptian Blessing) |
Paul Clavet
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.07.10 19:51:00 -
[89]
Damn those CCP mods, cluttering up your forums with their ideas ("noise") about what the game company thinks your game is supposed to be like. They'll see. You'll make them pay. Then they'll see that you were right after all, that they didn't actually mean to put third-party salvaging in the game at all.
There will parades. Balloons. Confetti.
----
Suddenly Ninjas
Blog: My Loot, Your Tears
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Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente
The Flying Tigers
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Posted - 2009.07.10 20:06:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Paul Clavet
My question to you is: In your perfect world where ninja salvaging flags for aggro, how many times will you have to dock up your CNR after shooting at a ninja before the loss of efficiency starts to hurt your bottom line? Or will you just not shoot at ninjas at all when you want to carebear in safety?
Do you ever bother to read anything you don't agree with Paul?
1) I'm Gallente. I don't fly Caldari battleships, CNR or any other kind. On those rare occasions I pull the dust cover off Forward Starbow to run a mission, the silhouette is pure Dominix.
2) I live in Tenal. Most of my 'Missioning' if you want to call 0.0 ratting missioning is done in a Deimos that includes a point and a quite capable PvP fit should the need arise to use it. Nice thing about that HAC is that it can be dual purpose without two different fits.
3) When I do mission, I don't do it in Dodixie or Motsu. Indeed, I've never been to either of those systems in over a year of play. Were it not for threads like these I probably would never even have heard of them.
So in my 'perfect world' flying a ship I can't even fly if I pop the sad little frigate that's stealing my crap I'll happily warp back and get my Ishtar, or maybe the Arazu and head to my mission and cloak up and see if he turns up. Or just scan him out and shoot him if he's camping the station. Or what have you. I might win, I might not - but I'll enjoy the fight either way. That's how PvP goes.
Regardless, as I've said and in fact even Tchell agreed to - you can already create this trigger any time you like. Most don't. You can have this fight opportunity at will by taking a single round of ammo or missile. Very few ninjas will touch the loot. They avoid it like it's made of red hot coals.
I don't know if you actually believe what you say or you're just trying to scare some noobs, nor do I much care. I'll say it again just for you.
Bring it.
May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk
(Old Egyptian Blessing) |
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