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Rant of the Month: Salvaging

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Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers	Posted - 2009.07.10 20:12:00 - [91] Originally by: Paul Clavet Damn those CCP mods, cluttering up your forums with their ideas ("noise") about what the game company thinks your game is supposed to be like. They'll see. You'll make them pay. Then they'll see that you were right after all, that they didn't actually mean to put third-party salvaging in the game at all. You mean the one without decision making power (by his own admission) who has posted like once in the last several months? Yeah, he 'clutters up' lots. Third party salvage is quite welcome in my book. As long as it has sensible consequences and a reasonable risk to balance the reward. You yourself stated that you had no problem with aggro for salvaging - so, then, we agree and agree with the OP as well. We should be celebrating! May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)
Paul Clavet Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.07.10 20:32:00 - [92] Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom You yourself stated that you had no problem with aggro for salvaging - so, then, we agree and agree with the OP as well. We should be celebrating! A toast to you, sir! I've figured it out. Since you don't operate in the areas frequented by large ninja corps, you are pushing for this change which, while not directly affecting you, will cause your loyalty points and loot drops to become more valuable as more mission-fit ships are destroyed when carebears fire upon ninjas. In this case, I suppose that our goals, while not perfectly aligned, are close enough in implementation that we should drink to our future spirit of cooperation. Of course, this means that I expect you to be busily carebearing it up while the rest of the missionbears are in here calling for third-party salvaging to be a CONCORDOKKENable offense. Mark my words, if you get your way that will be the debate. And when it happens, I will post a link to this post. Then I'll laugh and laugh. /sarcasm ---- Suddenly Ninjas Blog: My Loot, Your Tears
Paul Clavet Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.07.10 20:35:00 - [93] Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom Originally by: Paul Clavet Damn those CCP mods, cluttering up your forums with their ideas ("noise") about what the game company thinks your game is supposed to be like. They'll see. You'll make them pay. Then they'll see that you were right after all, that they didn't actually mean to put third-party salvaging in the game at all. You mean the one without decision making power (by his own admission) who has posted like once in the last several months? Yeah, he 'clutters up' lots. Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. (These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.) ---- Suddenly Ninjas Blog: My Loot, Your Tears
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers	Posted - 2009.07.10 20:43:00 - [94] Originally by: Paul Clavet Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom You yourself stated that you had no problem with aggro for salvaging - so, then, we agree and agree with the OP as well. We should be celebrating! A toast to you, sir! Why thank you. I've figured it out. Since you don't operate in the areas frequented by large ninja corps, you are pushing for this change which, while not directly affecting you, will cause your loyalty points and loot drops to become more valuable <snip> Actually no. As I've said before, I just happen to think it's wrong. Strongly. That's more than enough to motivate me to advocate something. In fact it's far far more likely to do so than something which merely benefits me. <shrug> I'm just not narcissistic or greedy in that particular way (other ways, quite probably but not that one). Quote: Of course, this means that I expect you to be busily carebearing it up while the rest of the missionbears are in here calling for third-party salvaging to be a CONCORDOKKENable offense. Mark my words, if you get your way that will be the debate. And when it happens, I will post a link to this post. Then I'll laugh and laugh. /sarcasm I'll tell you what I told your CEO long ago - I'm happy to take (partial) responsibility for the aggro change should it happen. To quote Monty Python, "I've had worse". I see it as being the right thing to do and I'll happily take all the flak for standing up for what I believe to be right. Done it in real life and to cost more than once in blood and treasure and probably will again. It's nothing to do in a video game. May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers	Posted - 2009.07.10 20:48:00 - [95] Originally by: Paul Clavet Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." We know what the status quo is. That's why it's called advocating CHANGE. As in "Not like it is now." And now I really do have to get going now that the job I was running is complete. May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)
Paul Clavet Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.07.10 21:14:00 - [96] Jarvis, I'm glad you took time off from rescuing orphans and defending the honor of virgins to post about your strong moral indignation at the scourge of ninja salvaging internet spaceships. While I'm sure you will ultimately become the martyr you seem to think that you are in real life, I want you to know that I will always hold you in the highest... Oh, I can't keep it up. I find it amusing but horrifying that you actually think that there is moral high ground to be taken on behalf of the poor, downtrodden carebears of high-security Eve online. ---- Suddenly Ninjas Blog: My Loot, Your Tears
Kel Nissa	Posted - 2009.07.10 21:18:00 - [97] Not everyone uses eve as sandbox to live out a hidden, rotten attititude.
Galvatine Caldari Dark Materials	Posted - 2009.07.10 22:11:00 - [98] Thats right, some of us play to have fun
Khalia Nestune Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.07.11 04:12:00 - [99] I have fun blowing people up, making them cry, and watching them go OMG!RAGE. I don't really give two ****s if you don't like it - play with me, or go home.
Voridor Malevolence	Posted - 2009.07.11 08:00:00 - [100] Originally by: Paul Clavet Oh, I can't keep it up. I find it amusing but horrifying that you actually think that there is moral high ground to be taken on behalf of the poor, downtrodden carebears of high-security Eve online. Kinda sad, eh? Originally by: Khalia Nestune I don't really give two ****s if you don't like it - play with me, or go home. I'd really like most of you to take a good, long look at that quote.
BlyTwo	Posted - 2009.07.11 08:10:00 - [101] Edited by: BlyTwo on 11/07/2009 08:10:01 -Sigh- People need to learn to look at both sides of the argument.
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers	Posted - 2009.07.13 19:07:00 - [102] Originally by: Paul Clavet I find it amusing but horrifying that you actually think that there is moral high ground to be taken on behalf of the poor, downtrodden carebears of high-security Eve online. Clearly. And, naturally, there are no people with keyboards behind all those much denigrated 'carebears' who expend funds to enjoy the game and play in high sec for a break from their work, their kids, their stress filled lives and just don't want to be annoyed by someone damaging their game experience to harvest their 'tears'. I realize that carrying non-sociopathic tendencies into an MMORPG is unusual, but I prefer it that way nonetheless. You are entitled to your position - and I am entitled to mine. The horse in this discussion has long been beaten to glue so I believe we are done. May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)
Quesa Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.13 20:35:00 - [103] Salvaging doesn't need to be it's own profession. It's a mini-profession. Salvage is junk that someone finds a use for. Nobody owns junk. People taking salvage from your wrecks creates player interaction. Whether or not it's good or bad, all player interaction is good. When salvage was added to the game, there were no changes in the bounties or loot tables of the mission pirate drops. So basically any salvage you get is a bonus to what you would have been making prior to salvage being added to the game.
Johnny Dexter	Posted - 2009.07.14 19:06:00 - [104] Luckily in 0.0 people understand that taking something valuable from a wreck that doesn't belong to you IS a theft and all player rules are set accordingly, no silly game agression mechanic or developer comment will change that Actually, the thing I wanted to talk about is common courtesy, surely quite a few people wouldn't mind you buzzing around in a salvage boat if only you would ask nicely. Motsu must have at least 500 mission runners in system on a normal afternoon, ask in local and see how many people say 'yes' I almost never salvage when I run missions ( except AE ), it's easier and more profitable to blitz through everything and buy goodies from the LP store afterwards. To be totally honest, I would love some company, mission running is such an awful grind. However, seeing those chat logs makes me wonder how many of you people do it for the salvage and how many for the pure fun of annoying others. I mean, it's OK to act like an arse if you wish to do so in EVE, but please, at least be a man and admit it. If you CBA to ask for permission in local just state you are there to take salvage and be done with it, yelling "LOLyousucknoob, I R 1337" in local, rediculing others and claiming you are only there for an honest day's work makes you look very weak. Either way, I don't really care, have fun
Paul Clavet Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.07.14 19:17:00 - [105] Originally by: Kel Nissa Not everyone uses eve as sandbox to live out a hidden, rotten attititude. What's an attititude? It sounds awesome. ---- Suddenly Ninjas Blog: My Loot, Your Tears
Paul Clavet Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.07.14 19:18:00 - [106] Originally by: Johnny Dexter Luckily in 0.0 people understand that taking something valuable from a wreck that doesn't belong to you IS a theft and all player rules are set accordingly, no silly game agression mechanic or developer comment will change that Actually, the thing I wanted to talk about is common courtesy, surely quite a few people wouldn't mind you buzzing around in a salvage boat if only you would ask nicely. Motsu must have at least 500 mission runners in system on a normal afternoon, ask in local and see how many people say 'yes' For a 0.0 badass, you sure do seem to think that Eve is a friendly place. ---- Suddenly Ninjas Blog: My Loot, Your Tears
Johnny Dexter	Posted - 2009.07.14 19:42:00 - [107] Originally by: Paul Clavet Originally by: Johnny Dexter Luckily in 0.0 people understand that taking something valuable from a wreck that doesn't belong to you IS a theft and all player rules are set accordingly, no silly game agression mechanic or developer comment will change that Actually, the thing I wanted to talk about is common courtesy, surely quite a few people wouldn't mind you buzzing around in a salvage boat if only you would ask nicely. Motsu must have at least 500 mission runners in system on a normal afternoon, ask in local and see how many people say 'yes' For a 0.0 badass, you sure do seem to think that Eve is a friendly place. Maybe not all of 0.0 is populated with brutal baby-eating heartless monsters.
Beaton Somfoos	Posted - 2009.07.14 19:45:00 - [108] ok. so i run missions, and you know what? i could care less for the salvage and loot... i run missions for the LP. so you can have my salvage. i don't shoot at "ninjas" in my missions. ninja salvage to me is a non issue, i make more isk by running more missions than by going back to every mission and salvageing. but some people just like to be a ****, once, right after destroying the "Pleasure hub" a guy came in and took the Damsel... my mission completion item... and tried to sell it back to me for 30 Mil. whatever, i just flew back to station, failed the mission, and got a new one. no skin off of my back, at least i got the bounties. my point is, that no matter how easy you make it for salvagers, by making wrecks scannable, or whatever, people will still look for tears by scanning players and griefing them.
Paul Clavet Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.07.14 20:40:00 - [109] Originally by: Johnny Dexter Edited by: Johnny Dexter on 14/07/2009 20:13:23 Originally by: Paul Clavet For a 0.0 badass, you sure do seem to think that Eve is a friendly place. Maybe not all of 0.0 is populated by brutal baby-eating monsters. Then why would I ever want to go there? ---- Suddenly Ninjas Blog: My Loot, Your Tears
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.07.15 01:03:00 - [110] Originally by: Johnny Dexter Edited by: Johnny Dexter on 14/07/2009 20:13:23 Originally by: Paul Clavet For a 0.0 badass, you sure do seem to think that Eve is a friendly place. Maybe not all of 0.0 is populated by brutal baby-eating monsters.
Markus Reese Caldari	Posted - 2009.07.15 01:38:00 - [111] Was something I brought up before in a different thread. Easy mechanic to enforce. Wreck property of owners until they leave. Simple. If somebody is there from the corp, fleet, etc who created it. Salvaging makes you flagged and a small sec hit (sec hit should go with theft too imo). If that person or person leaves the area, ie off grid. Then you right click and claim wrecks. Then they are yours, like marine salvage rights. This makes having a salvager with you more important, as that can then apply to jet cans and all loot along with it. I am a bit of a carebear and hate ninjas, but would agree and love this mish. Would make ninja salvaging more ninja too, as you could hide cloaked and wait for them to leave and pounce on salvage claim.

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