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ConjuredShadows	Posted - 2009.07.16 03:07:00 - [1] I watched a jihad group splash an Orca a few minutes ago, got me thinking of ways to prevent it. Tanking doesn't do much against a group of 15 or so battleships, so early warning may be the best approach. Like a tornado. Can't do crap about it but get out of its way. It may be worth it to create/join a channel for miners/haulers to alert everyone if they see a jihad gang roaming around. It may save a few ships (assuming they're not afk). I'd make the name, tentatively, "minerdef", unless someone has a better idea. At the very least, it'd give miners/haulers a unified communication channel until everyone gets bored of the idea.
Loco Eve	Posted - 2009.07.16 03:14:00 - [2] there is a channel. it's called local.
ConjuredShadows	Posted - 2009.07.16 03:17:00 - [3] Thanks so much for that... I watch local same as anyone with half a brain. Docking time of an Orca is substantial though, even bigger problem if they send a scout in and already have a bead on you. Knowing a baddie is two jumps out, or even one jump, is better than learning they're in the area when local jumps population.
Roger Dailly Gallente New Eden Network Solutions	Posted - 2009.07.16 04:00:00 - [4] I think it's a very good idea, and may come in very handy. Considering there's already regional channels to warn of pirate gate camps and such, why shouldn't we have one to let people know when there's a jihad gang around?
Shiangti Caldari	Posted - 2009.07.16 12:36:00 - [5] Set goons to red if you are a miner and you will then see when they are in local. I have seen them ganking macks and hulks in at least two systems I frequent. They use an amarr battleship as their attack ship of choice. Normally they operate in pairs, one to gank and the other in a hauler to pick up the loot that drops.
ConjuredShadows	Posted - 2009.07.16 13:46:00 - [6] Can't set an alliance to red on the character level. Not all corporations are going to be willing to set GS to red for their miners, more power to the ones that do though. Last night the gang was 15+ pilots from multiple corporations from GS alliance. I suspect they had a scout so they knew their target well in advance. I don't know if that scout was actually in GS or not, though. By the time the pilot noticed Local increase population he was already screwed, even if he was aligned to station. I'm personally expecting to see an uptick in large jihad gangs seeking out Orcas and other high value targets. The war has slowed down and loads of GS pilots are looking for something to do. Hulks are easy to kill in a kamikaze strike from a single or pair of expendable battleships. Orcas take some skill and planning, which is why I think they'll prefer those. That and they're worth a lot more. I don't care what is decided as possible solutions, long as we're not just rolling over hoping that they won't splash us next. I intend to make myself a ghost if I hear them coming my way and to alert everyone else as best I can. I sure as hell can't fight them, but I can make it harder to hunt me down so they move on to easier targets.
K'uata Sayus	Posted - 2009.07.16 13:56:00 - [7] What is the name of the system/constellation/region you've seen these pendejos? If folks posted that, a pattern might emerge. If the scurvy dogs are frequenting Lonetrek, folks in Khanid might be able to relax a little. EVERYONE SEEMS NORMAL UNTIL YOU GET TO KNOW THEM.
ConjuredShadows	Posted - 2009.07.16 14:21:00 - [8] Last night was Angymonne I believe. GS is based out of Delve, I think, so nearly straight shot north. I've heard of hits in the Jita area too though.
Callista Omenswarm Astronautical Engineering	Posted - 2009.07.16 15:06:00 - [9] Edited by: Callista Omenswarm on 16/07/2009 15:07:03 Here's your best gank defence for hulk pilots: Invul Fields, EM Resistance Amps, DCUs, EANMs Squeezing out every last drop of CPU you can push 20k eff. hp and pretty much ensure you're more than a match for a solo ganker. Astronautical Engineering - T1 BPC Store - Now recruiting
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2009.07.16 17:31:00 - [10] Perhaps it is time we independant miners and industrialists formed a miners union (alliance) work together, all for the common good. If a small gang of hulks all fitted combat drones, they can kill smaller craft. For escape, all field medium ECM drones. In the end the old saying 'strength in numbers' is never truer. But I for one would welcome a miners union, I am sure my corpies would agree.

fox weik Caldari Caucasian Culture Club	Posted - 2009.07.16 19:17:00 - [11] An alliance wouldn't work. GS could just wardec it and then not have to worry about loosing ships to CONCORD. A channle might work but GS could just put a spy in it.
ConjuredShadows	Posted - 2009.07.16 19:25:00 - [12] A spy wouldn't hurt us I think. They already know where we are and they are anyway, so they wouldn't learn anything except that we know where they are now. They could throw a few false alerts and spook us, but we'd learn who does that and mute/ban them from the channel. Our gain is higher than their gain in that case because we now know one of their scouts/alts/characters.
L4NC3R Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.07.16 19:39:00 - [13] Truthfully, the only real way to actually work together to make sure you don't die, is to make a channel per region and watch for large gangs. The next thing to do is watch for main attacked systems and work together by telling when you see a large fleet. It's not just Goonswarm that's doing this. It's many many people. Work together and spread the word. Eventually you all will have organization. And those who die? Macro Miners. :)
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2009.07.16 20:15:00 - [14] Stop mining in static belts.
ingenting 20th Legion Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2009.07.16 23:40:00 - [15] Edited by: ingenting on 16/07/2009 23:40:11 1 set them to -10 2 set everyone else (that u already have red) to -0.1 to -0.5 3 watch local see reds, dock easy /thread _________________ - "Welcome to EVE, remember to insu BAAOOM... Told you, newb."
Tomoyuki	Posted - 2009.07.16 23:45:00 - [16] Edited by: Tomoyuki on 16/07/2009 23:45:53 This channel would benefit miners all over eve because they can just leave when GS are next door in the adjacent system and you can eventually plot out where they might go next. This will only solve Jihads made by GS but ordinary ganking I doubt it. As with spies the worst that can happen is someone you call a "spy" creates a false alarm then there is a very good chance that a miner on that channel could verify if it is true or not. Regardless either adapt and learn to deal with the jihad or don't mine because it is going to continue to happen and won't stop until summer is over at the earliest. Edit *spacing
ConjuredShadows	Posted - 2009.07.17 00:11:00 - [17] Originally by: ingenting Edited by: ingenting on 16/07/2009 23:40:11 1 set them to -10 2 set everyone else (that u already have red) to -0.1 to -0.5 3 watch local see reds, dock easy /thread See my post on Jihad using scouting tactics. It takes too long for an Orca to escape if they already know their target, even if aligned. I give a Jihad fleet 20 seconds from system entry to tackle. It takes my Orca, usually, at least 30 seconds to run for dock. That's assuming they don't use their scout to give the target ship a bump to knock off their alignment. That's what I'd do.
Baka Lakadaka Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2009.07.17 02:29:00 - [18] Originally by: ConjuredShadows See my post on Jihad using scouting tactics. It takes too long for an Orca to escape if they already know their target, even if aligned. I give a Jihad fleet 20 seconds from system entry to tackle. It takes my Orca, usually, at least 30 seconds to run for dock. That's assuming they don't use their scout to give the target ship a bump to knock off their alignment. That's what I'd do. Setup: Align Orca to station at very low speed. Execution: Get a corp mate to web your Orca as it starts to warp. Reduced max speed, faster time to max speed, Orca warps in a few seconds. ______________________ Isn't it time you learned to fight back? Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University. Now Recruiting.
21 Salvager Minmatar We Are Still Alive	Posted - 2009.07.17 03:18:00 - [19] Originally by: ConjuredShadows ...even if aligned. I give a Jihad fleet 20 seconds from system entry to tackle. It takes my Orca, usually, at least 30 seconds to run for dock. Sounds like you think pointing your ship at something and stopping helps. It doesn't. "Aligned" only means something if you are moving. Time to warp in any direction is the same from a dead-stop. ----- I'm a collector! Want to trade? See my Collection List and contact me.
ConjuredShadows	Posted - 2009.07.17 03:22:00 - [20] Didn't know about that, will have to try it tomorrow. It'll make ore pickups more interesting at least.

Baka Lakadaka Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2009.07.17 03:41:00 - [21] Originally by: 21 Salvager Originally by: ConjuredShadows ...even if aligned. I give a Jihad fleet 20 seconds from system entry to tackle. It takes my Orca, usually, at least 30 seconds to run for dock. Sounds like you think pointing your ship at something and stopping helps. It doesn't. "Aligned" only means something if you are moving. Time to warp in any direction is the same from a dead-stop. If you're going to point your ship at something, then you should maintain at least a slow speed. Any speed in the direction you want to go will help get you to warp quicker. Here's the trick - if you can maintain a slow speed that is higher than the maximum speed when webbed, your ship will virtually insta-warp when the web goes on. But if you're stopped dead, then the direction you're pointing doesn't make a difference. My Frieghters and Orcas have been known to warp backwards, sideways, directly upwards or downwards. ______________________ Isn't it time you learned to fight back? Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University. Now Recruiting.
L4NC3R Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.07.17 04:01:00 - [22] I didn't believe the whole webbing to warp faster worked anymore? I asked a fellow corp mate the other day and he said it didn't. Btw, the only reason I'm helping in this conversation is because I bought ConjuredShadow's Orca >.> I could truly give a care less for everyone else. I actually laughed at that Orca kill. :)
Angelina Morgan Amarr Carebear Evolution Allegiance 2 None	Posted - 2009.07.17 05:39:00 - [23] The webbing to warp faster works, I helped a corp mate's freighter make several jumps. Was fun seeing it warp as soon as I dual webbed it The best approach I feel is to mine in mission spawns. There are several mission which spawn lots of ore, plus the quantity of the ore is very large. The only downside being all the ore is normal ones no 10% or 20% extra ones. Now regarding some one probing you down and then bring in suicide gank ships, well most of the time you are away from the warp-in point in a mission + with no MWDs working any one trying to suicide gank will have a hard time reaching you before you warp out.
Vos Bein Critical Mass Inc.	Posted - 2009.07.17 06:14:00 - [24] So what is up with GS, I see those guys suicide ganking in Otela as well. Seems a epidemic has broken out. BTW I quit mining in the belts and only mine in mission spawns.
Sen Xia GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.07.17 09:19:00 - [25] You foolish infidels, no silly channel will keep you safe from Allah's holy judgment. Only a quick repentance of your idolatrous pursuit of the sacred asteroids will give you any reprieve.
Blasphemour	Posted - 2009.07.17 10:58:00 - [26] I think there are two ways to limit the risk of getting ganked. The first one has already been named, mining in mission belts. Usually big rocks so rejoice! The second one: Corp mining. Go the a belt with your corp, mine, get someone to haul the ore constantly, get a few to watch out for gankers and such, shoot them when required or hold them off at least till the corp has jumped out. I prefer the second one. It is more fun to mine with a whole group, always nice to clear a belt completely and the income can be huge. Also, in the event you do get killed, the ganker will be concorded. When you are in a group someone will/should have a salvager fitted. They can get you the stuff you dropped and the stuff the ganker has dropped as well. Then his gank will result only in loss of sec status and his ship without the pay-off.
Mystafyre Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.07.17 11:51:00 - [27] Just have Basilisk(s) with T2 large shield transfers around, keep your hulks locked all the time and when blob warps in just push the button...
Falka Lakadaka Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.17 12:14:00 - [28] Originally by: L4NC3R I didn't believe the whole webbing to warp faster worked anymore? I asked a fellow corp mate the other day and he said it didn't. It definitely works - I used it only a matter of hours ago. Cheers Falka ________________________________________ 1. Read the Guides Sticky 2. ???? 3. Profit
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2009.07.17 14:26:00 - [29] have started a thread in general chat about this topic, if you care to comment, please do.
PCP Houk	Posted - 2009.07.18 03:47:00 - [30] Infidels, here these words of the venerated prophet Karttoon, peace be upon him. "Pillagers of our holy land, your hour has come. Fire and sulphur await those that defile the Holy Land with their mining lasers. Only those that flee to the Unholy land of Minmitar space will be spared. Any who stand against us will be struck down by the power of Allah. Allah's warriors will matyr themselves in the holy fire and obliterate you. End your corrupt ways, or you will be cleansed."

Steve Thomas	Posted - 2009.07.18 06:38:00 - [31] mine missions, that usualy works best, and the payout is better to start with in the first place. ******************************************************** This post has been cleared of appropriate content. Regards, The EAE Inlone Mindebending team . . . . . . . .** Stop freaking worrying about why things the developerd did 5 years and more ago no longer make sence.
Blasphemour	Posted - 2009.07.20 10:13:00 - [32] Ofcourse mission mining works best, is safest etc. However, not every mission has a field and not every miner is a mission runner as well. In a corp you might have field that are worthwhile regularly, if the corp is large enough and enough mission runners are available but if you are not in a corp, good luck!
Bael Gar	Posted - 2009.07.20 10:31:00 - [33] Just call CONCORD to the belt beforehand (shooting Orca by noobship alt in NPC corp). CONCORD stays in belt at least two hours. And while it already in belt - it react on jihad agression immediately - not in a 30 seconds for 0.5 systems.
fmercury Queens of the Stone Age Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2009.07.20 12:13:00 - [34] Originally by: Bael Gar Just call CONCORD to the belt beforehand (shooting Orca by noobship alt in NPC corp). CONCORD stays in belt at least two hours. And while it already in belt - it react on jihad agression immediately - not in a 30 seconds for 0.5 systems. Is an exploit.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2009.07.20 19:03:00 - [35] Originally by: ConjuredShadows Didn't know about that, will have to try it tomorrow. It'll make ore pickups more interesting at least. Ships in Eve are treated as spheres. All that counts is their velocity (speed + direction). From a dead stop it takes the same amount of time to warp no matter what direction your ship looks like it's facing. The facing of ships is purely cosmetic in Eve. Being aligned at a low speed will cut some time off of your warp time, but being stopped completely won't.
TeddyBr FTW Caldari TeddyBr's Revenge	Posted - 2009.07.20 21:01:00 - [36] Sounds like it might be time to start up another killin spree! ▪ Goonie Gasbags: Death Came
Micklab	Posted - 2009.07.21 11:24:00 - [37] Originally by: PCP Houk Infidels, here these words of the venerated prophet Karttoon, peace be upon him. "Pillagers of our holy land, your hour has come. Fire and sulphur await those that defile the Holy Land with their mining lasers. Only those that flee to the Unholy land of Minmitar space will be spared. Any who stand against us will be struck down by the power of Allah. Allah's warriors will matyr themselves in the holy fire and obliterate you. End your corrupt ways, or you will be cleansed." Enough with this wannabe Jihadist, martyr for Allah, kill the infidels crap. If you want to die for something, go virtually strap on a suicide vest, get into the middle of all the rest of your idiotic friends and blow yourself up ridding EVE of your senseless drivel.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.07.21 11:42:00 - [38] Originally by: PCP Houk Only those that flee to the Unholy land of Minmitar space will be spared. There's at least one GoonFleet player suicide ganking folks in Osoggur. Is anyone surprised that the Goons aren't honouring any amnesty?
ConjuredShadows	Posted - 2009.07.21 13:05:00 - [39] Originally by: Kyra Felann Originally by: ConjuredShadows Didn't know about that, will have to try it tomorrow. It'll make ore pickups more interesting at least. Ships in Eve are treated as spheres. All that counts is their velocity (speed + direction). From a dead stop it takes the same amount of time to warp no matter what direction your ship looks like it's facing. The facing of ships is purely cosmetic in Eve. Being aligned at a low speed will cut some time off of your warp time, but being stopped completely won't. Good to learn new things! I'll experiment with this a bit to see what gives me the best results.
Dariah Stardweller	Posted - 2009.07.21 13:20:00 - [40] Originally by: TeddyBr FTW Sounds like it might be time to start up another killin spree! ▪ Goonie Gasbags: Death Came Confirming I will be donating if another round of this takes place.

Jen Fravo	Posted - 2009.07.21 14:40:00 - [41] Another option besides webbing is an MWD. See the fit -> http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/18874-MWD-10sec-to-warp-Orca.html
Vespa Black	Posted - 2009.07.21 16:03:00 - [42] Anyone know where the danger zones are for the Jihad? I know there is always a danger but where are the "must avoid" places that the jihad frequent?
Barakkus Caelestis Iudicium	Posted - 2009.07.21 16:09:00 - [43] Edited by: Barakkus on 21/07/2009 16:10:07 Any system that borders lowsec with ice belts, especially Caldari space.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2009.07.21 19:12:00 - [44] Edited by: Kyra Felann on 21/07/2009 19:15:42 Originally by: Micklab Enough with this wannabe Jihadist, martyr for Allah, kill the infidels crap. If you want to die for something, go virtually strap on a suicide vest, get into the middle of all the rest of your idiotic friends and blow yourself up ridding EVE of your senseless drivel. I agree. I don't mind what they're doing so much as the Jihadist 'theme' that goes along with it. If they were going around calling themselves ****Swarm or FinalSolutionSwarm that'd probably be against the rules, but glorifying another ideology that's just as violent, intolerant, and offensive to rational people and furthermore is responsible for deaths around the world on a daily basis is perfectly ok? EDIT: See, the short word for the German National Socialist party during the 30's and 40's is censored, but Jihad, a violent ideology responsible for at least thousands and probably millions of deaths is not. A bit of a double standard, I think.
Domoso	Posted - 2009.07.23 15:27:00 - [45] Edited by: Domoso on 23/07/2009 15:31:14 Interesting topic. Interesting conundrum. Seems to me the best way to handle this is coordinate system wide mining ops and pay for early warning services by placing scouts at each gate, preferably the other side. Then have the scouts warn of impending attack. Of course, because of the target rich environment it could make getting out of the system unscathed impossible until GS gets bored of waiting for people to exit the stations. Of course there is the wormhole factor to contend with but probably not reliable enough for GS to utilize effectively. The idea of a early warning channel is good. However, by itself, it would most probably be reliant upon an attack already occurring. In conjunction with scouts it would be the most effective option that I am aware of.
Tauranon Gallente Wandering Provocateurs Communitas	Posted - 2009.07.24 05:20:00 - [46] Originally by: Domoso Edited by: Domoso on 23/07/2009 15:31:14 Interesting topic. Interesting conundrum. Seems to me the best way to handle this is coordinate system wide mining ops and pay for early warning services by placing scouts at each gate, preferably the other side. Then have the scouts warn of impending attack. Of course, because of the target rich environment it could make getting out of the system unscathed impossible until GS gets bored of waiting for people to exit the stations. Of course there is the wormhole factor to contend with but probably not reliable enough for GS to utilize effectively. The idea of a early warning channel is good. However, by itself, it would most probably be reliant upon an attack already occurring. In conjunction with scouts it would be the most effective option that I am aware of. Early warning channel is a big list of people to agent-locate. Big group of miners huddling together = gank and smartbomb attractant. Safest approach is to find low pop systems, with belts that are reasonably far away from travel, gates, undocks, and watch the scanner. hisec Gank squads warp unstealthed, very obvious if you don't have 20 ships on scan already. Add to that tanked ships, and mining in motion to reduce warp time. Orca actually helps with that due to reduced cycle time for the strips. I don't imagine GS 'care' that much about alert pilots who successfully use the tools available to escape them, at least not to the point of deliberately camping an individual into a station. AFKers earning PVP isk safely in highsec without watching the screen probably motivate them more.
sir gankalot	Posted - 2009.07.24 14:02:00 - [47] Originally by: fmercury Originally by: Bael Gar Just call CONCORD to the belt beforehand (shooting Orca by noobship alt in NPC corp). CONCORD stays in belt at least two hours. And while it already in belt - it react on jihad agression immediately - not in a 30 seconds for 0.5 systems. Is an exploit. Well who is going to say I was practicing my suicide ganking skills with my alt or if I was preloading concord on the grid?
Callista Omenswarm Astronautical Engineering	Posted - 2009.07.24 14:34:00 - [48] Originally by: fmercury Originally by: Bael Gar Just call CONCORD to the belt beforehand (shooting Orca by noobship alt in NPC corp). CONCORD stays in belt at least two hours. And while it already in belt - it react on jihad agression immediately - not in a 30 seconds for 0.5 systems. Is an exploit. No, deleting the char with negative sec status and recycling them is the exploit, calling CONCORD is perfectly legit. Astronautical Engineering - T1 BPC Store - Now recruiting


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