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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
   |
Posted - 2009.07.19 20:30:00 -
[1]
I am looking for the following pilots to take part in a test on Singularity:
1. Thanatos pilot, needs cybernetics V. Must have a complete high-grade Spur implant set plugged in.
2. Rook/falcon pilot, fit to be probe immune and activate ECCM projectors on the Thanatos. Must be fit as below:
3. Max. skilled Eos pilot with an Information Warfare Mindlink and a Sensor Integrity link module fitted.
4. Max. skilled Claymore pilot with a Skirmish Warfare Mindlink and an Evasive Maneuvers link module fitted.
5. As many highly-skilled, competent probers as possible. Use all available means at your disposal to try to probe out the carrier and warp to it.
Naturally, pilots 1-4 need to be in a fleet with pilots 3 and 4 giving bonuses.
The goal of this test is to demonstrate that it is possible to create a carrier that is impossible to pinpoint using probes, while remaining free to deploy fighters elsewhere in the system.
The falcon pilot will need the following fit in order to make the Thanatos unprobeable while itself being unprobeable, plus any cap mods needed to make sure it perma-runs:
[Falcon, ECCM boost]
Gravimetric Backup Array II
Gravimetric Backup Array II
[empty low slot]
Phased Muon ECCM Caster I
Phased Muon ECCM Caster I
Phased Muon ECCM Caster I
Phased Muon ECCM Caster I
Phased Muon ECCM Caster I
ECCM - Gravimetric II
[empty med slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]
Post here if you can help, and say when you can be online over the next few days.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.07.19 20:52:00 -
[2]
I've already contacted 3 people to help with the test, but more are needed, especially a mindlinked Eos pilot (information warfare mindlink). So far I have 1 falcon pilot, 1 claymore pilot and 1 thanatos pilot lined up. I'm also looking for probers.
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Etien Aldragoran
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.07.19 21:55:00 -
[3]
I'm not entirely sure what you're wanting to do. ECCM has nothing to do with the probing of ships. It only affects the chance of said ship getting jammed. Signature radius is what you go by when probing.
You will not get an unprobable carrier unless you cloak it.
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Myra2007
Shafrak Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.19 22:07:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Myra2007 on 19/07/2009 22:08:14
 Originally by: Etien Aldragoran
I'm not entirely sure what you're wanting to do. ECCM has nothing to do with the probing of ships. It only affects the chance of said ship getting jammed. Signature radius is what you go by when probing.
You will not get an unprobable carrier unless you cloak it.
You are mistaken. It is the ratio signature radius/sensor strength that is taken to account for probing. It has been that way as long as i can think back(which should be about 3 years if my brain is still working correct).
If that carrier can be made unprobable i can't tell, but other ships definitely can and this is indeed very easy to test.
edit: i could offer a claymore but you already have one and i think i am missing warfare link specialist 5 :(
please keep us updated about results
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Originally by: Jasper Dark
I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
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Artassaut
Minmatar
Oblivion Amalgamated
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Posted - 2009.07.19 22:34:00 -
[5]
Quote:
Scorpion with 4 shield extenders and 4 ECCMs. Left to right is: ECCM off shield extenders on, ECCM on shield extenders on, ECCM off, shield extenders off.
With all 4 extenders on or off, I was able to get this hit.
With all 4 extenders on and ECCM on, I was able to get this hit.
With all 4 extenders off and ECCM on, I was able to get this hit.
With enough Projected ECCM, any ship should become unprobable. Handy for command ships.
I won't be able to help with the test, so good luck.
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The Gate: Lol, try targeting me in a fleet fight.
The Station: No U. |
Incusus
Caldari
Epilogue Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.07.19 22:35:00 -
[6]
Available with damn fine prober & maxxed claymore weekdays around 24:00 eve time (flexible) and most any time on weekends.
Fiery the angels rose, and as they rose deep thunder roll'd
Around their shores: indignant burning with the fires of Orc. |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.07.20 10:05:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Artassaut
With enough Projected ECCM, any ship should become unprobable. Handy for command ships.
I won't be able to help with the test, so good luck.
For some large ships, the stacking penalty on ECCM kicks in before the ship becomes unprobeable. Carriers are right at the edge of what's possible.
Here are the numbers I'm using:
Thanatos
Base sig radius2960
Base sensor strength76
Base target size38.94736842
Sig radius effects
Gang bonus sig factor74.1%
Final sig radius2194.1
Sensor strength effects
High-grade Spur implant set175.6%
Gang bonus138.8%
Total ECCM bonus1143.3%
(5x ECCM projector II with stacking penalty)
Final Sensor Strength2118.390172
Final target size1.035739322
Smallest size that a perfect prober can find: 1.08012498
The two command ship pilots can get away with sub-perfect skills if necessary. The Claymore pilot needs Skirmish Warfare V and Skirmish Warfare Spec V (for the mindlink), Warfare link spec V and CS IV+.
The Eos pilot only needs Info. Warfare V + Spec V, Command Ships III or better and Warfare Link spec IV or better.
In the worst case, that gives a target size of 1.080007453, just within the limit, but I'd rather be a bit on the safer side if possible in case the rounding used in-game is different from mine.
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Some Advisor
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Posted - 2009.07.20 10:27:00 -
[8]
and so future exploit thoughts are born.
lets see how fast CCP will recheck those stuff when you actually get results ^^
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Myra2007
Shafrak Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.20 11:07:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Some Advisor
and so future exploit thoughts are born.
lets see how fast CCP will recheck those stuff when you actually get results ^^
From the feedback thread for the new probing system we can infer that greyscale is aware of ships not being probable at all under certain circumstances and he seems fine with that. Those new implants may make it easier for bigger ships but the idea is not new.
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Originally by: Jasper Dark
I agree! Lets go back into caves and lick rocks!
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Some Advisor
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Posted - 2009.07.20 12:56:00 -
[10]
no, but then i guess he wasnt "aware" or thought of the potential "pawnmobile" to lets say, hunt someone with a tackler ship while your fighters are defending him, giving the tackler a huge firepower bonus and the guy has not much chances of killing you (hmm lets say a jamming ship with probing abilities). you basically just jam and scram the frack out of him and the fighters do the rest :P
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.07.20 13:23:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
The two command ship pilots, ...
may i suggest T3 ships with warfare.. processor.. thingy, the defensive subs: may not look that much more powerful but being rank I, it's easy to skill to V -> 25% bonus. might be interesting if you only got CS IV -> 12%
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putting the gist back into logistics |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.07.20 13:44:00 -
[12]
Yes, either of the CS pilots can be replaced with T3 ships with Warfare Processor subsystems and Racial Defensive Systems III. The ships are readily available on Singularity, but I'm not sure how many pilots there are who can fly them. Finding someone who can use an information warfare mindlink seems to be the hard part.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.20 20:55:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Yes, either of the CS pilots can be replaced with T3 ships with Warfare Processor subsystems and Racial Defensive Systems III. The ships are readily available on Singularity, but I'm not sure how many pilots there are who can fly them. Finding someone who can use an information warfare mindlink seems to be the hard part.
I can use a Astarte (command ships 4) and have Information specialist III, it can be sufficient?
I could pilot an Eos in 5 days on the test server.
I have trained all the leadership skills to a fairly high level before remapping my 32 charisma  but I have not really used them so I am hardly an expert.
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Artassaut
Minmatar
Oblivion Amalgamated
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Posted - 2009.07.20 22:11:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
For some large ships, the stacking penalty on ECCM kicks in before the ship becomes unprobeable. Carriers are right at the edge of what's possible.
Whoops, I didn't know there was a stacking penalty associated with ECCM. Sorry about that.
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The Gate: Lol, try targeting me in a fleet fight.
The Station: No U. |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.07.20 23:20:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
I can use a Astarte (command ships 4) and have Information specialist III, it can be sufficient?
You need spec V (and cybernetics V) to plug in a mindlink implant. Unfortunately, the mindlink is essential - the implant increases the strength of the gang bonus from the link module by 50%, and there's no other way to fill that gap. Thanks for the offer, though.
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steave435
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.07.21 01:44:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Originally by: Venkul Mul
I can use a Astarte (command ships 4) and have Information specialist III, it can be sufficient?
You need spec V (and cybernetics V) to plug in a mindlink implant. Unfortunately, the mindlink is essential - the implant increases the strength of the gang bonus from the link module by 50%, and there's no other way to fill that gap. Thanks for the offer, though.
midlink increase the bonus by 50%, so f.e. an eos with CS 5 would give 15*1.5=22.5% gang bonus before adding all the other stuff. a T3 ship with max skills without mindlink give 25%.
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Kandita Kane
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Posted - 2009.07.21 02:59:00 -
[17]
skirmish bonus w/maxxed pilot on claymore is 25.87% on loki it is 28.125% Cheers
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.21 06:29:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Originally by: Venkul Mul
I can use a Astarte (command ships 4) and have Information specialist III, it can be sufficient?
You need spec V (and cybernetics V) to plug in a mindlink implant. Unfortunately, the mindlink is essential - the implant increases the strength of the gang bonus from the link module by 50%, and there's no other way to fill that gap. Thanks for the offer, though.
Information warfare spec V will be another 26 days  . (cyber 5 has been dome a lot of time ago)
I hope you will find someone long before that but in the meantime I am putting up the skills on the test server.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.07.21 06:44:00 -
[19]
Originally by: steave435
midlink increase the bonus by 50%, so f.e. an eos with CS 5 would give 15*1.5=22.5% gang bonus before adding all the other stuff. a T3 ship with max skills without mindlink give 25%.
The mindlink bonus doesn't just work by making other link strength bonuses stronger - it multiplies the link strength directly. So in your example it would actually be 1.15 * 1.5 = 1.725 for Eos + mindlink vs. 1.25 for Proteus without mindlink.
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Muugly
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Posted - 2009.07.21 07:49:00 -
[20]
im not sure how usefull this will be considering the claymore/eos will be very easy to scan in the system and so what if thye dont see the carrier the scanner is giong to say "hay look claymore and eos" and then gang goes to go kill them two.
ALSO it takes like 6 poeple to do it this way when all you have to do is put a cloak on the carrier heh
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.07.21 08:24:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Muugly
im not sure how usefull this will be considering the claymore/eos will be very easy to scan in the system and so what if thye dont see the carrier the scanner is giong to say "hay look claymore and eos" and then gang goes to go kill them two.
ALSO it takes like 6 poeple to do it this way when all you have to do is put a cloak on the carrier heh
1. It's not that hard to make the command ships unprobeable as well.
2. It takes 3 + carrier, not 6.
3. Have you ever tried running gang links, covert cynos or deploying fighters while cloaked?
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Contralto
Estel Arador Corp Services
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Posted - 2009.07.21 14:44:00 -
[22]
My alt can fly all 4 Cs and has all the leadership skills at V, plus can fit mindlinks, But thats on Tranq'.
I am downloading the Sisi client atm to see if he has Gall Cruiser V on that mirror. He finished it on 30 June on Tranq.
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Contralto
Estel Arador Corp Services
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Posted - 2009.07.21 15:44:00 -
[23]
He is available for your test, just let me know by mail on Tranq.
He also flies the other three CS if required also with relevant mindlinks.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.07.21 16:50:00 -
[24]
Thanks for your assistance, and for verifying that I'm calculating the strength of the link bonus correctly. Now we just need to find a time when all necessary people are online.
The most efficient way to make both command ships unprobeable along with the carrier & falcon is to have the claymore fit 4x eccm projector, the eos 3, and have them target each other. This avoids the need for either of those pilots to plug in what would be a rather expensive implant set on Tranquility.
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Contralto
Estel Arador Corp Services
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Posted - 2009.07.21 16:56:00 -
[25]
Are you planning this on Tranquility?
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.07.21 17:08:00 -
[26]
No, the point is to show that it can be done fairly cheaply. 
I'm planning for this to happen on the test server.
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Contralto
Estel Arador Corp Services
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Posted - 2009.07.21 17:16:00 -
[27]
Just checked the Dodixie market, Skirmish Mindlink is only 800k there, pretty much a throw away price! The Phased Muon Caster is just 25 to 50k though.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.07.21 17:25:00 -
[28]
Come to FD-MLJ on Singularity. I think you'll find prices even cheaper there.
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Contralto
Estel Arador Corp Services
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Posted - 2009.07.21 17:29:00 -
[29]
Lol yes I had noticed 
I am just setting up an Eos on Tranq to complete the set, I use 5 clones for the Mindlinks.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.07.21 17:38:00 -
[30]
So far, the following people have offered to help:
Sniper699: Thanatos pilot
Incusus: Claymore pilot
Contralto: Eos pilot
Me: Blackbird*
Now we just need some probers
Backup pilots would also be appreciated, in case we have trouble getting everyone online at once.
*The blackbird is nearly as good as a falcon for this job, just needs a few implants to make up for lower sensor strength.
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