EVE Search - Are faction items good enough?

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Are faction items good enough?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.07.21 09:06:00 - [1] Currently the progression of meta levels of items compared to their rarity with respect to their performance improvement over the lower meta level items doesn't stack up very well. I think that there should be a differentiation between 'navy' items and true 'faction' items (dropped by pirate NPCs etc.) so as to bridge the gap between mere faction items and officer class modules. Additionally, most faction items don't offer much of an improvement over T2 modules. Sensor boosters or damage mods (magstabs, heatsinks, gyros) are good examples of this. At best you're going to see a 2-4% gain over fitting a comparable T2 module. The performance advantage is tiny when weighed against the items rarity and cost. Further more, using a sensor booster as an easy example: the improvement the faction module adds over a T2 module of the same time is worthless. The small 4% or so improvement in lock time isn't going to make a difference one way or another with respect to whether or not you nab your target. If a faction sensor booster provided a 25-50% increase in performance over it's T2 counterpart then there would be good cause to fit it when compared to a single T2 module. I'm not suggesting that every faction module have such a large difference in performance between it and it's T2 counterpart, but this is just an example of where such a large difference would be required in order to make the faction module of some real benefit when compared to it's T2 version. Faction tanking mods provide quite a large increase in performance compared to T2, but I find the damage mods to be quite lacking vs. T2. Exchanging two T2 heatsinks for two Amarr Navy heatsinks will only net you a 4% increase in damage. Is that really worth the difference in cost and justified by it's rarity? I don't think so. And then there is the officer stuff. More rare than faction by a couple orders of magnitude, officer mods provide a little more performance, but there really isn't much to bridge the gap between them and 'normal' faction mods. I think that all faction/officer mods need to have increased performance and that pirate faction mods need to have improved performance over their navy counterparts to bridge the gap between officer and low-end faction. -murder one [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.07.21 09:14:00 - [2] A 2-4% gain is still a gain. The point of the better modules isn't "oh my gods these things are HUGE!", it's "It's better then this." If you want to optimize everything, be "all you can be", you will get these for the 2-4% gain. Because if you put a 10-10 skilled pilot against a 10-10 skilled pilot, but the other one has 2-4% gain due to a damage mod? You know how that battle will go. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Opertone Caldari Monsters	Posted - 2009.07.21 09:16:00 - [3] well, thanks for posting I think faction ships need a priority boost. Many of the faction ships are laughable or useless, easily surpassed by navy ships. Certain faction ships like Nightmare are overpowering, others need to be adjusted in line with it. Faction items are nice to have, but are certainly lacking performance or overpriced. Medium sized modules cost 50-75 mill per module, large sized cost 100-150 mill. Universal modules are even more appreciated and have a 'price premium'
Benco97 Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.21 09:20:00 - [4] Faction modules: Overpriced Fairly useful I'm considering a set of Republic Fleet 425's for my Loki, I've discovered a niche for them in which they outperform T2 425's. Faction ships: HORRENDOUSLY overpriced If it's smaller than a BS it's useless and outclassed by basic T1 ships of the same type. Except maybe the Faction stabber, that's nice. However, remember that faction items aren't directly meant to be better than T2. Originally by: P'uck You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.07.21 09:21:00 - [5] Originally by: Sheriff Jones A 2-4% gain is still a gain. The point of the better modules isn't "oh my gods these things are HUGE!", it's "It's better then this." If you want to optimize everything, be "all you can be", you will get these for the 2-4% gain. Because if you put a 10-10 skilled pilot against a 10-10 skilled pilot, but the other one has 2-4% gain due to a damage mod? You know how that battle will go. Right. But you missed the point of the thread entirely. For some things (like sensor boosters as a prime example) a 2-5% gain in performance means nothing. When my scan res on a battleship is increased from 190mm to 199.5mm, just what sort of target am I going to be able to lock/tackle with the 199.5mm scan res that I wouldn't be able to catch with the 190? None. Further more, faction modules need to have more of an impact on the ship's performance. In a 1v1, sure the cumulative effect of 2-4% increases here and there might make the difference, but all that goes out the window when you add a second ship to the mix. Additionally, faction damage mods don't keep pace with tanking mods with respect to the performance advantage gained. The balance and performance of faction mods needs to be looked at. -murder one [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Mashie Saldana BFG Tech	Posted - 2009.07.21 09:25:00 - [6] The CN BCUs are better than half the officer BCUs. So if anything it would be nice with this thing called "consistency" but CCP is allergic to that idea.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.07.21 09:32:00 - [7] Originally by: murder one Right. But you missed the point of the thread entirely. For some things (like sensor boosters as a prime example) a 2-5% gain in performance means nothing. When my scan res on a battleship is increased from 190mm to 199.5mm, just what sort of target am I going to be able to lock/tackle with the 199.5mm scan res that I wouldn't be able to catch with the 190? None. Further more, faction modules need to have more of an impact on the ship's performance. In a 1v1, sure the cumulative effect of 2-4% increases here and there might make the difference, but all that goes out the window when you add a second ship to the mix. Additionally, faction damage mods don't keep pace with tanking mods with respect to the performance advantage gained. The balance and performance of faction mods needs to be looked at. This goes for ALL mods, not just faction. You use the scan res example? Ok, that might be broken, doesn't mean ALL. What you seem to suggest is to make all officer/faction items even better. Faction/officer mods currently are better, so they work. they might not be as good as you want, but they are better none the less. If we had "over the top" officer mods, they would cost more(even more), the droprate would have to be changed so people wouldn't cry "too many officer mods killing t2!" due to the incline of people hunting for the mods, due to them being so much better. Cap between new and old pilots would increase more. Cap between old players and old players in huge corporations would increase more. The effects aren't that clear cut and you've fallen for the old "i wants!" mode of suggesting stuff. You have to look at every effect of the change, not just "then they would be better" change. The price of the mods and ships being too high? Blame the players, not the game. Same goes with T2 ship insurance etc. Only way for this to "balance" is to put a market cap on prices so they don't go over the "designed" price. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.07.21 09:34:00 - [8] IMHO, CCP needs to decide where to put the different classes of modules magnitude wise and give every level a solid reason to exist. This does not just include faction modules that are sometimes completely eclipsed by T2 or another faction's version but also meta level modules that obsolete T2 despite meta 4 rarity (like armor plates and MWDs) and all COSMOS modules that are too rare and too weak to be worthwhile producing. Also one might evaluate the need for a three part differentiation of deadspace modules, considering how rare they are in general, giving them only one "power level" per size might suffice. Moving all remaining static plexes to exploration would remove farming as an issue for them and give them the rarity again fitting to their stats. -------- Ideas for: Mining
Rexthor Hammerfists Rage of Inferno Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.07.21 09:35:00 - [9] A change id certainly like to see would be to allow faction guns and launchers to use t2 ammo, making them viable in pvp. -
Tiny Tove	Posted - 2009.07.21 09:38:00 - [10] I can't tell, is this a whine about the lack of homogenous uniformity? Adapt or die.
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.07.21 09:41:00 - [11] Originally by: Sheriff Jones This goes for ALL mods, not just faction. You use the scan res example? Ok, that might be broken, doesn't mean ALL. What you seem to suggest is to make all officer/faction items even better. Faction/officer mods currently are better, so they work. they might not be as good as you want, but they are better none the less. If we had "over the top" officer mods, they would cost more(even more), the droprate would have to be changed so people wouldn't cry "too many officer mods killing t2!" due to the incline of people hunting for the mods, due to them being so much better. Cap between new and old pilots would increase more. Cap between old players and old players in huge corporations would increase more. The effects aren't that clear cut and you've fallen for the old "i wants!" mode of suggesting stuff. You have to look at every effect of the change, not just "then they would be better" change. The price of the mods and ships being too high? Blame the players, not the game. Same goes with T2 ship insurance etc. Only way for this to "balance" is to put a market cap on prices so they don't go over the "designed" price. No, the drop rates wouldn't have to be changed. That is what currently establishes an items rarity, which is just fine. Price is determined by supply and demand. I'm not concerned with price. I'm concerned with performance vs. rarity of the module. Plus the fact that some modules (like BCUs as an example) are totally screwed up with respect to the meta level and the performance advantages. I'm not in an 'I want' mode. I have considered 'all of the effects' of such a change. I do want players to be able to wedge more peak performance into their ships. To the point that said ships perform remarkably better than a standard T2 fit ship. Without resorting to ultra rare officer mods. There needs to be a happy middle ground with respect to performance and rarity with the various higher metalevel modules. Right now the progression of the performance curve doesn't match the progression of the rarity curve. Not even close. It's off by ten orders of magnitude at a minimum. And this isn't even touching on the problems with faction ships... -murder one [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.07.21 09:51:00 - [12] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 21/07/2009 09:53:56 Originally by: murder one No, the drop rates wouldn't have to be changed. That is what currently establishes an items rarity, which is just fine. Price is determined by supply and demand. I'm not concerned with price. I'm concerned with performance vs. rarity of the module. Plus the fact that some modules (like BCUs as an example) are totally screwed up with respect to the meta level and the performance advantages. I'm not in an 'I want' mode. I have considered 'all of the effects' of such a change. I do want players to be able to wedge more peak performance into their ships. To the point that said ships perform remarkably better than a standard T2 fit ship. Without resorting to ultra rare officer mods. There needs to be a happy middle ground with respect to performance and rarity with the various higher metalevel modules. Right now the progression of the performance curve doesn't match the progression of the rarity curve. Not even close. It's off by ten orders of magnitude at a minimum. And this isn't even touching on the problems with faction ships... Price is actually determined by supply, demand and need(as in, is it worth it) and the prices ARE too much via player interaction, not because of the items. The players push the price up because they want more profit, excess profit even. Like i said, what you're asking is not officer mod related, it's ALL mod related. Boosting officer mods is not a viable solution as it causes even a bigger cap and makes balance a bigger issue. Like said with bigger corporations having the ability to widen the cap between others simply by having more access to these "uber" modules. I don't agree at all that one ship should be better by magnitudes, simply due to someone having the ISK to make it so. The difference needs to be visible, but not by several levels. So in short; mods need an overhaul across the board, not just officer etc. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Cors It's A Trap	Posted - 2009.07.21 09:56:00 - [13] The thing is, some of the modules you double or tripple up. Damage mods and sensor boosters are common ones. Others you don't, like a MWD. They have to balance the ones that we double up on, and ones you don't.
Lord Haur Amarr Cursed Souls	Posted - 2009.07.21 10:13:00 - [14] Yes, the damage boost from faction damage mods is only a few percent more than T2, however you appear to have forgotten that faction modules have lower fitting costs than their T2 equivalents. When this is taken into account, their meta level is more in-line with their stats. As for faction sensor boosters, that 4% can make a lot of difference when coupled with a scan res script and put on a capital ship, this could cut off a second or two from locking a battlecruiser-sized ship, which can easily be the difference between repping them and them dieing, or pointing them and them getting away depending on your purposes. A 25%-50% increase in performance would not make faction modules worthwhile, it would make them overpowered considering their low skill requirements and lower fitting costs
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.07.21 10:35:00 - [15] Originally by: Lord Haur Yes, the damage boost from faction damage mods is only a few percent more than T2, however you appear to have forgotten that faction modules have lower fitting costs than their T2 equivalents. When this is taken into account, their meta level is more in-line with their stats. As for faction sensor boosters, that 4% can make a lot of difference when coupled with a scan res script and put on a capital ship, this could cut off a second or two from locking a battlecruiser-sized ship, which can easily be the difference between repping them and them dieing, or pointing them and them getting away depending on your purposes. A 25%-50% increase in performance would not make faction modules worthwhile, it would make them overpowered considering their low skill requirements and lower fitting costs No, I haven't 'appeared to forgotten' anything. You're simply unable to comprehend the fundamental concepts I'm putting to you. A 4% increase in scan res will most certainly not shave off a second of lock time from locking a BC with a cap ship. But again, the point of the thread isn't to nitpick what modules should have what changes. The point is to address the overall design and re-balancing of the various high-end metalevel modules. -murder one [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.07.21 10:41:00 - [16] Why only high level then? My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Doddy Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.07.21 10:44:00 - [17] Faction mods usually have nice fitting requirements compared with t2, thats more than enough for me (damage mods being a case in point).
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.07.21 10:57:00 - [18] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Why only high level then? Because the performance values of the low metalevel and T2 modules are correctly distributed per their rarity. Are you just being obtuse on purpose or did you just skip over the original post? -murder one [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.07.21 11:04:00 - [19] Originally by: murder one Originally by: Sheriff Jones Why only high level then? Because the performance values of the low metalevel and T2 modules are correctly distributed per their rarity. Are you just being obtuse on purpose or did you just skip over the original post? No, i'm pointing out that it's not so simple. It shines through that you're not, no matter how you say, considering all the effects. If they, for example, lowered the effects of all but officer mods, you would be happy, no? Afterall, it would effectively make officer mods better in comparison. I didn't think so. How about effects on missioning? Simply by increasing the effect of officer mods, missions would become even easier and faster to do. At the moment, considering effect on power and fitting needs, officer mods are at the top of the curve. The only solution isn't to make them even more powerful as you can change the curve from various points with less of an overall effect. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Vrikshaka Yawn Corp	Posted - 2009.07.21 11:07:00 - [20] Imo there should be some sort of set bonus going on with faction/navy weapons. Kind of like with pirate implants. If you've got a full rack of em, you get some sort of extra bonus, making them clearly better than T2 (while T2 still has versatile ammo which faction doesn't ofc). If you fit them on a ship from the appropriate faction, you get another bonus on top of that, like with an omega (Bhaal/Ashimmu with a phat extra nos/neut bonus v0v). In fact wasn't it you that proposed this idea to start with? As for non-weapon faction mods, the bonuses feel about alright to me. I mostly use the ones that affect pg/cap, to tweak my ships to juuust allow for that slightly more versatile fitting, the balance for those seems about right to me. Totally onboard with "real" factions giving higher bonuses than the navy stuff though. V
Mashie Saldana BFG Tech	Posted - 2009.07.21 11:10:00 - [21] Originally by: Vrikshaka Imo there should be some sort of set bonus going on with faction/navy weapons. Kind of like with pirate implants. If you've got a full rack of em, you get some sort of extra bonus, making them clearly better than T2 (while T2 still has versatile ammo which faction doesn't ofc). If you fit them on a ship from the appropriate faction, you get another bonus on top of that, like with an omega (Bhaal/Ashimmu with a phat extra nos/neut bonus v0v). In fact wasn't it you that proposed this idea to start with? As for non-weapon faction mods, the bonuses feel about alright to me. I mostly use the ones that affect pg/cap, to tweak my ships to juuust allow for that slightly more versatile fitting, the balance for those seems about right to me. Totally onboard with "real" factions giving higher bonuses than the navy stuff though. V Congratulations, fourth time is a charm getting your post in the correct location. As for your suggestion, no we don't need that.
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.07.21 11:12:00 - [22] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: murder one Originally by: Sheriff Jones Why only high level then? Because the performance values of the low metalevel and T2 modules are correctly distributed per their rarity. Are you just being obtuse on purpose or did you just skip over the original post? No, i'm pointing out that it's not so simple. It shines through that you're not, no matter how you say, considering all the effects. If they, for example, lowered the effects of all but officer mods, you would be happy, no? Afterall, it would effectively make officer mods better in comparison. I didn't think so. How about effects on missioning? Simply by increasing the effect of officer mods, missions would become even easier and faster to do. At the moment, considering effect on power and fitting needs, officer mods are at the top of the curve. The only solution isn't to make them even more powerful as you can change the curve from various points with less of an overall effect. It's like talking to a brick... I'm not saying that all the officer mods should be turned into ridiculously overpowered ubermodules. I'm saying keep the low end stuff where it is, adjust the faction mid-range stuff (npc pirate modules) above where they are currently (equal to navy modules) in order to better fill in the mid-range between the best in game officer mods and T2. Additionally I also suggest that some things (like sensor boosters for example) be adjusted so that the meta level increases actually contribute something to their increased performance at their assigned role instead of just making them the same as all other mods with respect to how much of a bonus increase they receive per meta level. They're not damage mods. A 2% difference isn't significant enough. Again, I'm just singling out the sensor booster because it's a good example of this situation. -murder one [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.21 11:14:00 - [23] Originally by: Vrikshaka Imo there should be some sort of set bonus going on with faction/navy weapons. Kind of like with pirate implants. If you've got a full rack of em, you get some sort of extra bonus, making them clearly better than T2 (while T2 still has versatile ammo which faction doesn't ofc). If you fit them on a ship from the appropriate faction, you get another bonus on top of that, like with an omega (Bhaal/Ashimmu with a phat extra nos/neut bonus v0v). In fact wasn't it you that proposed this idea to start with? As for non-weapon faction mods, the bonuses feel about alright to me. I mostly use the ones that affect pg/cap, to tweak my ships to juuust allow for that slightly more versatile fitting, the balance for those seems about right to me. Totally onboard with "real" factions giving higher bonuses than the navy stuff though. V T2 rewars training the spec skill, faction do not. So faction is better then unskilled T2. T2 also uses more grid and/or cpu in many cases. Imo, T2 vs faction is good as is. Having a wierd arbitrary bonus bacuse you got many of them makes no sense what so ever. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Opertone Caldari Monsters	Posted - 2009.07.21 11:19:00 - [24] Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists A change id certainly like to see would be to allow faction guns and launchers to use t2 ammo, making them viable in pvp. brilliant we need faction equivalents of tech 2 modules, say faction missile launchers or even faction t2 guns, why can't these cool things be of meta 11? It would be very balanced, especially if getting faction stuff would require hard work, but the flow could be consistent!
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.07.21 11:21:00 - [25] Originally by: Vrikshaka Imo there should be some sort of set bonus going on with faction/navy weapons. Kind of like with pirate implants. If you've got a full rack of em, you get some sort of extra bonus, making them clearly better than T2 (while T2 still has versatile ammo which faction doesn't ofc). If you fit them on a ship from the appropriate faction, you get another bonus on top of that, like with an omega (Bhaal/Ashimmu with a phat extra nos/neut bonus v0v). In fact wasn't it you that proposed this idea to start with? As for non-weapon faction mods, the bonuses feel about alright to me. I mostly use the ones that affect pg/cap, to tweak my ships to juuust allow for that slightly more versatile fitting, the balance for those seems about right to me. Totally onboard with "real" factions giving higher bonuses than the navy stuff though. V Yeah, I've been suggesting set bonuses for navy and pirate stuff for as long as I can remember. A Navy Mega with a full rack of navy guns and a navy tank etc with just disgusting performance. Good stuff. A Bhaal with a set bonus would be awesome. -murder one [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Hatchet Annie Caldari	Posted - 2009.07.21 11:27:00 - [26] Edited by: Hatchet Annie on 21/07/2009 11:27:24 whups mispost
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.07.21 11:28:00 - [27] Originally by: murder one It's like talking to a brick... And with that we're done. If you can't discuss the oints other put out and just repeat things like a jack-in-a-box, there's no use discussing. "No like i said!" "No like i said!" is not discussing. Add insult to that and i can't be arsed. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Vrikshaka Yawn Corp	Posted - 2009.07.21 11:29:00 - [28] Originally by: Mashie Saldana Originally by: Vrikshaka Imo there should be some sort of set bonus going on with faction/navy weapons. Kind of like with pirate implants. If you've got a full rack of em, you get some sort of extra bonus, making them clearly better than T2 (while T2 still has versatile ammo which faction doesn't ofc). If you fit them on a ship from the appropriate faction, you get another bonus on top of that, like with an omega (Bhaal/Ashimmu with a phat extra nos/neut bonus v0v). In fact wasn't it you that proposed this idea to start with? As for non-weapon faction mods, the bonuses feel about alright to me. I mostly use the ones that affect pg/cap, to tweak my ships to juuust allow for that slightly more versatile fitting, the balance for those seems about right to me. Totally onboard with "real" factions giving higher bonuses than the navy stuff though. V Congratulations, fourth time is a charm getting your post in the correct location. As for your suggestion, no we don't need that. Rofl apparently I haven't been forum whoring enough! Good thing I decided not to make another hate post about how f*cked up the forum is
Tiny Tove	Posted - 2009.07.21 11:39:00 - [29] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: murder one It's like talking to a brick... And with that we're done. If you can't discuss the oints other put out and just repeat things like a jack-in-a-box, there's no use discussing. "No like i said!" "No like i said!" is not discussing. Add insult to that and i can't be arsed. Apparently T2 stuff is fine, here is some eloquent murder one prose that proves it.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.21 11:39:00 - [30] Originally by: Vrikshaka Originally by: Mashie Saldana Originally by: Vrikshaka Imo there should be some sort of set bonus going on with faction/navy weapons. Kind of like with pirate implants. If you've got a full rack of em, you get some sort of extra bonus, making them clearly better than T2 (while T2 still has versatile ammo which faction doesn't ofc). If you fit them on a ship from the appropriate faction, you get another bonus on top of that, like with an omega (Bhaal/Ashimmu with a phat extra nos/neut bonus v0v). In fact wasn't it you that proposed this idea to start with? As for non-weapon faction mods, the bonuses feel about alright to me. I mostly use the ones that affect pg/cap, to tweak my ships to juuust allow for that slightly more versatile fitting, the balance for those seems about right to me. Totally onboard with "real" factions giving higher bonuses than the navy stuff though. V Congratulations, fourth time is a charm getting your post in the correct location. As for your suggestion, no we don't need that. Rofl apparently I haven't been forum whoring enough! Good thing I decided not to make another hate post about how f*cked up the forum is Fortunalty nobody would care about such a post anyways. :P The forum is a result of the same questions day in and day out tbh. I have been on the forums a lot, and I can not even count all the times the same post and question pop up. Aftr a while it gets old, and people just don't care about copy pasting from earlier threads to give answers. This forum really needs a decent serach enginge. And some clear rookie guidlines to point the rookies in the direction of commonly asked questions. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Mashie Saldana BFG Tech	Posted - 2009.07.21 11:40:00 - [31] Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists A change id certainly like to see would be to allow faction guns and launchers to use t2 ammo, making them viable in pvp. Maybe not let the plain faction versions use T2 ammo, however it would be great if we could apply a little bit of reverse engineering to a faction module and then get a faction T2 BPC from it. I would love some Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher II's on my Tengu.
Benco97 Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.21 12:12:00 - [32] Originally by: Mashie Saldana Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists A change id certainly like to see would be to allow faction guns and launchers to use t2 ammo, making them viable in pvp. Maybe not let the plain faction versions use T2 ammo, however it would be great if we could apply a little bit of reverse engineering to a faction module and then get a faction T2 BPC from it. I would love some Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher II's on my Tengu. Loki with 6x republic fleet 425mmII's, Damage bonuses and T2 ammo of T2 turrets with the lower heat damage of faction.... Mmmmmmmmm.... Originally by: P'uck You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
Dunan Sanis Lone Star Academy	Posted - 2009.07.21 12:18:00 - [33] God, this is a GAME. You want the Dev's to implement a " I win " button? Sure let's all have FREE and Uber Overpowered Mods because it make my e-peen grow bigger !
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.07.21 21:35:00 - [34] Originally by: Dunan Sanis God, this is a GAME. You want the Dev's to implement a " I win " button? Sure let's all have FREE and Uber Overpowered Mods because it make my e-peen grow bigger ! An 'I win' button how? -murder one [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.07.21 21:41:00 - [35] Originally by: murder one I think that all faction/officer mods need to have increased performance and that pirate faction mods need to have improved performance over their navy counterparts to bridge the gap between officer and low-end faction. Considering how popular they already are, no. Not needed. Certainly not in the across-the-board way you describe here. Some modules categories might need a tweak to fall in line with the faction modules already being used, but that's a normalisation rather than an "increase." ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.07.21 21:50:00 - [36] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: murder one I think that all faction/officer mods need to have increased performance and that pirate faction mods need to have improved performance over their navy counterparts to bridge the gap between officer and low-end faction. Considering how popular they already are, no. Not needed. Certainly not in the across-the-board way you describe here. Some modules categories might need a tweak to fall in line with the faction modules already being used, but that's a normalisation rather than an "increase." Current popularity doesn't have anything to do with it. I'm discussing rarity vs. performance. Cost and popularity is irrelevant. -murder one [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Faife Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.21 21:51:00 - [37] i support this idea, especially for MWDs. /owner of a useless officer mwd -- Check out my EVE cartoons
Rawr Cristina Caldari Liberi Fatalius Exalted.	Posted - 2009.07.21 22:11:00 - [38] some faction gives no improvement, some gives a lot Generally Shield and Missile systems get the most from spending that little bit extra... Caldari Navy Invul Fields - 25% better than T2 Pithum Small/Medium Shield Boosters - Upto 150% better than T2 - Contagious -
m3rb3aSt Minmatar Advanced Component Research Enterprise GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.07.21 22:12:00 - [39] i do think it would be nice if all of the officer weapons would be considered tech 2
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.07.21 22:19:00 - [40] Originally by: murder one Current popularity doesn't have anything to do with it. I'm discussing rarity vs. performance. Cost and popularity is irrelevant. No it isn't. Cost and popularity is a good indicator of how well they perform and of rarity. Perform badly ⇒ not popular. Too rare ⇒ cost too much. Are people using the stuff? Yes, so they obivously perform well enough. Are people balking at the price? It doesn't seem like it. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
LordValia	Posted - 2009.07.21 22:27:00 - [41] Edited by: LordValia on 21/07/2009 22:32:59 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: murder one Current popularity doesn't have anything to do with it. I'm discussing rarity vs. performance. Cost and popularity is irrelevant. No it isn't. Cost and popularity is a good indicator of how well they perform and of rarity. Perform badly ⇒ not popular. Too rare ⇒ cost too much. Are people using the stuff? Yes, so they obivously perform well enough. Are people balking at the price? It doesn't seem like it. I agree w/ Tippia. Rarity vs. performance is a nice math exercise, but this is a game. No one cares about what the actual relationships are. All they care about is how much better their ships are for their designed purpose. Cost and popularity are very important factors to determine worth. In fact, they are the only things that DO matter in terms of the value of an item. Rarity and performance determines the parameters, but players are the ones that place value on them. If the module sucks on paper(i.e. small increase in resolution does absolutely nothing) and people are STILL buying, I think you have to go look back at your model of things. Trying to change the parameters without considering value to players is like changing a paragraph without reading the book.
Awesome Possum Insert Obscure Latin Name	Posted - 2009.07.21 23:31:00 - [42] take everything away, give everyone a canoe and a stick. welcome to eve 2.0 ♥ Wreck Disposal Services
Guillame Herschel Gallente NME1	Posted - 2009.07.21 23:34:00 - [43] Originally by: murder one Exchanging two T2 heatsinks for two Amarr Navy heatsinks will only net you a 4% increase in damage. Is that really worth the difference in cost and justified by it's rarity? I don't think so. Cool. Then don't use them. *-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then* --**
Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.07.22 00:04:00 - [44] In my opinion T1/named/T2/faction/deadspace/officer equipment should give slight advatages over their predecessors, but not a huge amount. If anything, some deadspace and officer gear is too good, and should probably be adjusted downwards. At the same time, the prices for these items should be brought down considerably. What? Prices are player-driven? Well, yes and no. Given set drop rates, that's true. But some time ago CCP eliminated most static complexes (or more accurately, moved them to exploration content), and this resulted in a huge reduction in supply, thus translating to a huge increase in supply. Back when I ran missions extensively, I bought a Pith(i/um) A-type Medium Shield Booster for my mission Nighthawk. At the time, it cost me around 250-350m, I think. Now that the static complexes that produced these modules have all but vanished, the price is ... well, considerably higher, by a factor of 5 or so. That was technically a player-driven change, but it was caused by a decrease in supply due to CCP's mechanics. Increase the drop rate, and the player-driven price will respond. So that's my take; do with it as you will. -- Becq Starforged The Flame of Freedom Burns On!
Ephemeron North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.07.22 00:13:00 - [45] Edited by: Ephemeron on 22/07/2009 00:14:47 as experienced faction mod user, I can tell you that the defensive factions mods are quite good. I don't want them to be any better However, the offensive faction mods are severely lacking - all except the large smartbombs and large officer guns. I have long attributed it to CCP's damage-phobia I forgot to mention that since the nano-nerf, all the faction speed gear has been severely nerfed

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.