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Nybbas
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Posted - 2004.09.29 22:53:00 -
[31]
a way to do it, to make death matter even if you have a full clone, is make a certain amount of skillpoints go null, lowering levels, taking away some skills, and all these points slowly come back over a period of a day or a week or whatever, without you doing anything, almost like your character "remembers" or had amnesia from the recloning process. Sorta like what they do in some mmorpgs by lowering your stats until you get so much exp etc, except its lowering your skills until a few days pass.... I think it would make death a more interesting thing other than oh I just need to buy another clone... PERMANENT loss in skill points is a very very bad thing tho seeing how it has the potential to ROYALL screw someone over if they goofed up...
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Nybbas
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Posted - 2004.09.29 22:53:00 -
[32]
a way to do it, to make death matter even if you have a full clone, is make a certain amount of skillpoints go null, lowering levels, taking away some skills, and all these points slowly come back over a period of a day or a week or whatever, without you doing anything, almost like your character "remembers" or had amnesia from the recloning process. Sorta like what they do in some mmorpgs by lowering your stats until you get so much exp etc, except its lowering your skills until a few days pass.... I think it would make death a more interesting thing other than oh I just need to buy another clone... PERMANENT loss in skill points is a very very bad thing tho seeing how it has the potential to ROYALL screw someone over if they goofed up...
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Miyamoto Jones
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Posted - 2004.09.29 23:01:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: X'Alor
everyone is always talking about risk vs. reward, no matter if it empire hunting, 00 BS hunting, pirate gate blocking.
personally I don't think there is any more risk vs reward more tantilizing than not having clones cover all skill points. Nothing better than flying around unprotected and getting away with it.
it forces specialized characters, a specialized character can have all the skill he needs and stay fully protected with current clones.
what better risk vs reward can you have.
risk of loosing skill points when trained at such an uber lvl for flying around and playing the game however you choose.
and like you say, you'll be training at 50k a day so who cares if you loose some points, you can make it up EVE'ntually and it only takes you 50k a day.
Um, it would help if you knew what you were talking about. Caymus IS a specialized char from what I've read of his posts. And he couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag. So, you are WRONG about a char having all the skills he needs and be able to protect himself. KTHXBBYE
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Miyamoto Jones
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Posted - 2004.09.29 23:01:00 -
[34]
Originally by: X'Alor
everyone is always talking about risk vs. reward, no matter if it empire hunting, 00 BS hunting, pirate gate blocking.
personally I don't think there is any more risk vs reward more tantilizing than not having clones cover all skill points. Nothing better than flying around unprotected and getting away with it.
it forces specialized characters, a specialized character can have all the skill he needs and stay fully protected with current clones.
what better risk vs reward can you have.
risk of loosing skill points when trained at such an uber lvl for flying around and playing the game however you choose.
and like you say, you'll be training at 50k a day so who cares if you loose some points, you can make it up EVE'ntually and it only takes you 50k a day.
Um, it would help if you knew what you were talking about. Caymus IS a specialized char from what I've read of his posts. And he couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag. So, you are WRONG about a char having all the skills he needs and be able to protect himself. KTHXBBYE
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throbbinnoggin
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Posted - 2004.09.30 04:32:00 -
[35]
How about a new skill called say 'clone enhancement' that adds 5% skill point coverage per lvl trained to existing clones
Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.
'Abraham Lincoln'
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throbbinnoggin
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Posted - 2004.09.30 04:32:00 -
[36]
How about a new skill called say 'clone enhancement' that adds 5% skill point coverage per lvl trained to existing clones
Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.
'Abraham Lincoln'
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Kuolematon
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Posted - 2004.09.30 06:02:00 -
[37]
This is still game that follows basic of MMORPG's and it means that when we pay for game and sacrifice our time and social life to 'em, we don't wanna lose that what we have gained. Every mmorpg has their own ways to punish death but currently most of them don't punish severely. I have played plenty of mmorgs and only in EVE there is NO way to catch up those who has started before me .. so if I lose those skill points when I die because of game mechanics it would really suck.
Those who has 20 mil points now have uber setups, uber stuff and they are near godlikes. Now if new player tries to kill those semi-gods, he wont and if your suggestion goes thru he will also lose little SP he got and thus fall again behind from that semi-god.
Death should be punished but not in way that it hurts us. How about that after kill, you will actually be inactive for ONE hour and after that ONE hour, 30min until you can board ship again (You know, those pods are our control places and needs special preparation to enter it).
_______________________________________________
My opinions aren't my corporations opinions.
(\_/)
(x.x) This is what's left of Bunny, the rest tasted delicious. |
Kuolematon
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Posted - 2004.09.30 06:02:00 -
[38]
This is still game that follows basic of MMORPG's and it means that when we pay for game and sacrifice our time and social life to 'em, we don't wanna lose that what we have gained. Every mmorpg has their own ways to punish death but currently most of them don't punish severely. I have played plenty of mmorgs and only in EVE there is NO way to catch up those who has started before me .. so if I lose those skill points when I die because of game mechanics it would really suck.
Those who has 20 mil points now have uber setups, uber stuff and they are near godlikes. Now if new player tries to kill those semi-gods, he wont and if your suggestion goes thru he will also lose little SP he got and thus fall again behind from that semi-god.
Death should be punished but not in way that it hurts us. How about that after kill, you will actually be inactive for ONE hour and after that ONE hour, 30min until you can board ship again (You know, those pods are our control places and needs special preparation to enter it).
_______________________________________________
My opinions aren't my corporations opinions.
(\_/)
(x.x) This is what's left of Bunny, the rest tasted delicious. |
Cen Varis
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Posted - 2004.09.30 07:25:00 -
[39]
just as a comment - you ont loose ALL the skill points above what you were insured with..
you loose a point of skill in one of your best skills.
ie - loose lvl5 in some skill if thats trained - maybe 2 points.
you dont actually NEED to ever get more than a basic clone - but then you will be sure to lose some skills each time you die.
Interstellat Cartographic League
- Cen Varis |
Cen Varis
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Posted - 2004.09.30 07:25:00 -
[40]
just as a comment - you ont loose ALL the skill points above what you were insured with..
you loose a point of skill in one of your best skills.
ie - loose lvl5 in some skill if thats trained - maybe 2 points.
you dont actually NEED to ever get more than a basic clone - but then you will be sure to lose some skills each time you die.
Interstellat Cartographic League
- Cen Varis |
Iced Earth
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Posted - 2004.09.30 08:30:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Cen Varis
just as a comment - you ont loose ALL the skill points above what you were insured with..
you loose a point of skill in one of your best skills.
ie - loose lvl5 in some skill if thats trained - maybe 2 points.
you dont actually NEED to ever get more than a basic clone - but then you will be sure to lose some skills each time you die.
Give me the joint man 
IE
CEO SuX Black Platoon |
Iced Earth
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Posted - 2004.09.30 08:30:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Cen Varis
just as a comment - you ont loose ALL the skill points above what you were insured with..
you loose a point of skill in one of your best skills.
ie - loose lvl5 in some skill if thats trained - maybe 2 points.
you dont actually NEED to ever get more than a basic clone - but then you will be sure to lose some skills each time you die.
Give me the joint man
IE
CEO SuX Black Platoon |
dabster
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Posted - 2004.09.30 10:34:00 -
[43]
The latest clone should likely be considered a temporary hotfix. Oveur hinted somewhere that 'if you only knew what we have in mind...:D', in a debate about a new clone recently.
So we will probably see some changes to clones and saving SP due Shiva, hopefully something that makes it hurt when you die. Because I'm sure a lot of people agree that getting podded today isn't the end of the world, it's a tiny tiny cost for most people (implants aside ofc).
___________________________
Chicks dig Brutor's |
dabster
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Posted - 2004.09.30 10:34:00 -
[44]
The latest clone should likely be considered a temporary hotfix. Oveur hinted somewhere that 'if you only knew what we have in mind...:D', in a debate about a new clone recently.
So we will probably see some changes to clones and saving SP due Shiva, hopefully something that makes it hurt when you die. Because I'm sure a lot of people agree that getting podded today isn't the end of the world, it's a tiny tiny cost for most people (implants aside ofc).
___________________________
Chicks dig Brutor's |
Dr Caymus
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Posted - 2004.09.30 15:31:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Miyamoto Jones
Um, it would help if you knew what you were talking about. Caymus IS a specialized char from what I've read of his posts. And he couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag. So, you are WRONG about a char having all the skills he needs and be able to protect himself. KTHXBBYE
You are right, Miyamoto. On both points 
I am an industrialist, highly specialized in industry and science skills. And sorely lacking in most other skills 
The new clone at 25.6 million points is not enough to cover my specialization (let along give me room to grow into some ship and defensive skills).
Dabster's probably right in that Shiva will deliver bigger and better clones. Its just a matter of timing.
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Dr Caymus
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Posted - 2004.09.30 15:31:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Miyamoto Jones
Um, it would help if you knew what you were talking about. Caymus IS a specialized char from what I've read of his posts. And he couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag. So, you are WRONG about a char having all the skills he needs and be able to protect himself. KTHXBBYE
You are right, Miyamoto. On both points
I am an industrialist, highly specialized in industry and science skills. And sorely lacking in most other skills
The new clone at 25.6 million points is not enough to cover my specialization (let along give me room to grow into some ship and defensive skills).
Dabster's probably right in that Shiva will deliver bigger and better clones. Its just a matter of timing.
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Burga Galti
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Posted - 2004.09.30 21:59:00 -
[47]
Okay, so we have on the market some Biomass that really has no use at the moment. We know clones need Biomass to be produced, anyone want to bet the new uber-clones in shiva will need you to supply biomass?
Of course, there would be issues with alts here, but i'm sure they'll have sorted that somehow...
Tales from the EVE Cluster |
Burga Galti
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Posted - 2004.09.30 21:59:00 -
[48]
Okay, so we have on the market some Biomass that really has no use at the moment. We know clones need Biomass to be produced, anyone want to bet the new uber-clones in shiva will need you to supply biomass?
Of course, there would be issues with alts here, but i'm sure they'll have sorted that somehow...
Tales from the EVE Cluster |
Darkwolf
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Posted - 2004.10.01 00:25:00 -
[49]
Originally by: dabster
So we will probably see some changes to clones and saving SP due Shiva, hopefully something that makes it hurt when you die. Because I'm sure a lot of people agree that getting podded today isn't the end of the world, it's a tiny tiny cost for most people (implants aside ofc).
11.5 million isk for the uber grade omega clone ain't exactly pocket change.
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Darkwolf
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Posted - 2004.10.01 00:25:00 -
[50]
Originally by: dabster
So we will probably see some changes to clones and saving SP due Shiva, hopefully something that makes it hurt when you die. Because I'm sure a lot of people agree that getting podded today isn't the end of the world, it's a tiny tiny cost for most people (implants aside ofc).
11.5 million isk for the uber grade omega clone ain't exactly pocket change.
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Darkwolf
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Posted - 2004.10.01 00:34:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Kuolematon
Those who has 20 mil points now have uber setups, uber stuff and they are near godlikes. Now if new player tries to kill those semi-gods, he wont and if your suggestion goes thru he will also lose little SP he got and thus fall again behind from that semi-god.
I think you are SERIOUSLY overestimating the value of extra skill points. You'll find the reason why veterans are so hard to kill is because
a) they're veterans
b) they have more cash, and thus better equipment
Look at it this way. Motion Prediction requires 90k skill points to get to level 4, and 512,000 to get to level 5. For 5.7 times the skill points invested, you get less than a 5% increase in tracking.
Secondly, many old-timers have a broad range of skills in many ships and turret types, as well as other utility stuff (science etc). When in a fight, your other ship abilities are useless. Your science skills are useless. You only really make use of maybe a couple of million skill points at the MOST in a fight.
And out of those few skills that you do make use of, you could have got them to level 4 for like 5 times less skill points, and only be a tiny bit less effective.
Think about that. This means that your 20 million SP uber combat monkey is less than 5% better than your 3 million SP semi-noob. That's just how it is. The difference is in the actual experience of the player, and in the equipment being used.
The skillpoints don't matter as much as people make out.
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Darkwolf
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Posted - 2004.10.01 00:34:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Kuolematon
Those who has 20 mil points now have uber setups, uber stuff and they are near godlikes. Now if new player tries to kill those semi-gods, he wont and if your suggestion goes thru he will also lose little SP he got and thus fall again behind from that semi-god.
I think you are SERIOUSLY overestimating the value of extra skill points. You'll find the reason why veterans are so hard to kill is because
a) they're veterans
b) they have more cash, and thus better equipment
Look at it this way. Motion Prediction requires 90k skill points to get to level 4, and 512,000 to get to level 5. For 5.7 times the skill points invested, you get less than a 5% increase in tracking.
Secondly, many old-timers have a broad range of skills in many ships and turret types, as well as other utility stuff (science etc). When in a fight, your other ship abilities are useless. Your science skills are useless. You only really make use of maybe a couple of million skill points at the MOST in a fight.
And out of those few skills that you do make use of, you could have got them to level 4 for like 5 times less skill points, and only be a tiny bit less effective.
Think about that. This means that your 20 million SP uber combat monkey is less than 5% better than your 3 million SP semi-noob. That's just how it is. The difference is in the actual experience of the player, and in the equipment being used.
The skillpoints don't matter as much as people make out.
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