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Jotobar
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Posted - 2009.07.26 05:28:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Jolla Skyia
Originally by: Lord Jita
Edited by: Lord Jita on 25/07/2009 19:24:10
Hello I am the number 2 moron. But not for the reasons you mention. I do it to pizz you off because I am not a trader, I am just trying to sell some crap I got from PVP as quickly as possible so I can go back to PVPing. but no, instead I get undercut 500 times a day so what better revenge than to destroy your margin? Good day.
Yet, you think that the .01er's aren't going to under cut your price by .01? You think just because you toss something on the market at 10% lower that no one will under cut you?
If you are putting it high enough above the buy margin, someone will under cut you, so you gain nothing. Your best solution to sell stuff like that is to sell it in a slow hub or take it to a low sec hub.
no
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.07.26 05:53:00 -
[32]
Quote:
Hello I am the number 2 moron. But not for the reasons you mention. I do it to pizz you off because I am not a trader, I am just trying to sell some crap I got from PVP as quickly as possible so I can go back to PVPing. but no, instead I get undercut 500 times a day so what better revenge than to destroy your margin? Good day
Quote:
Hi. I run missions and sometimes PVP. I do not figure opportunity cost into the price I list a T2 item that I just looted from a wreck in lowsec, or to the Meta4 item I just looted from a mission rat
Do you get that loot in volume? If so please EvEmail me.
But I disagree with
Quote:
I view every ISK I make as 100% profit for me.
because you invest you only, irreplaceable, most precious resource for that: your time.
And time and loot value are factored in the statistical pre-defined gain per hour you make, so they are not free.
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Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and
http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Jade Grimpkin
Trader's Academy
Blue Sky Consortium
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Posted - 2009.07.26 10:52:00 -
[33]
Moron trader no.3 here, sometimes we drop prices for the lulz, trading aint all about the isk.
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Roguehalo
Caldari
RH Ship Brokers
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Posted - 2009.07.26 10:56:00 -
[34]
Oh well..........I guess I better own up to being moron trader number 4
If your overall trading profit is even remotely dependant on 1 particular item you are doing something wrong
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Caleb Ayrania
Gallente
TarNec
New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2009.07.26 14:31:00 -
[35]
Ok this is the Moron.
Turnover anyone?
Tycoon wannabe go here: SCC Lounge
Got Game? Peak a boo... |
Zamaranth Sesta
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Posted - 2009.07.27 01:05:00 -
[36]
What irks me more, is when someone comes in and hugely bids up the buy price in a small market.
Somewhat higher prices might create a little bit more sales volume, but for the most part people dumping stuff in the small markets are mission runners or pirates that really don't want to bother with freighting stuff to jita and would just dump the items regardless of the price. Bidding 2 million instead of 1 million for an item that could be sold to the bid at 2.7 million in Jita just doesn't create many more sales... the sales volume is more based on drops to impatient sellers.
Say that item would sell pretty well at 3.5 million.
I'd probably still be bidding a dollar more at 2 million than at 1 million, but by someone taking the price up they've really reduced the total amount of profit to be made in a market.
I don't think they ARE getting more volume, but we are all surely are getting less profits.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.07.27 10:03:00 -
[37]
Moron #5 here.
I'm not interested in wasting my time with 0.01 ISK wars.
I'm not interested in being instantly undercut and making no sales.
I'm not interested in ""fair" trading".
I'm not interested in your sales figures.
I'm interested in maximising profit and minimising workload.
I'm interested in griefing my competition out of the market.
I'm interested in your tears.
I'm interested in destroying a market rather than letting another player dominate me.
If you think my prices are too low, buy me out.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.07.27 10:17:00 -
[38]
Quote:
If you think my prices are too low, buy me out
TBH this is usually what I do. 3 jumps and I am in another region, selling the same stuff for 600k to 1.2M more 
-
Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and
http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Dariah Stardweller
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Posted - 2009.07.27 10:40:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Zamaranth Sesta
What irks me more, is when someone comes in and hugely bids up the buy price in a small market.
They usually NEED the stuff then. For t2 production/invention.
Offers opportunity if you have some stock of the stuff. I was 0.01 isking for hours once with the same dude and he got miffed to the point where he raised them to just under mineral value. I said "thank you very much for saving me the trouble of hauling, reprocessing, more hauling and setting up sell orders" and just dumped my complete stock on him.
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Midas Man
Caldari
Dzark Innovations
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Posted - 2009.07.27 10:47:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Zamaranth Sesta
What irks me more, is when someone comes in and hugely bids up the buy price in a small market.
Somewhat higher prices might create a little bit more sales volume, but for the most part people dumping stuff in the small markets are mission runners or pirates that really don't want to bother with freighting stuff to jita and would just dump the items regardless of the price. Bidding 2 million instead of 1 million for an item that could be sold to the bid at 2.7 million in Jita just doesn't create many more sales... the sales volume is more based on drops to impatient sellers.
Say that item would sell pretty well at 3.5 million.
I'd probably still be bidding a dollar more at 2 million than at 1 million, but by someone taking the price up they've really reduced the total amount of profit to be made in a market.
I don't think they ARE getting more volume, but we are all surely are getting less profits.
This is what happens in an efficient market ie one with lots of traders, If this really irks you then you could do everyone a favour and leave the market. That way you dont get irked the market becomes less effficient and everyone still involved earns more isk...everyones happy
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Ohhh Matron
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Posted - 2009.07.27 13:39:00 -
[41]
I too am one of the many mission runners that builds up piles of loot junk and then every so often dumps it on the market. I usally go around 3-4% under.
98% of it sells within 24 hours, I get a wodge of ISK and more than if I'd just sold it straight. I really dont care if serious traders buy the stuff to sell at a higher margin. I got the ISK I want and didnt have to spend hours analysing the market or shifting crap around.
Each to their own.
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ChinChinneyChin
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.27 15:09:00 -
[42]
i was ranting about a module i buy from hisec to sell in 0.0,
lots of people were trying to live off the back of work i had done, ive invested alot in this said module, it will be difficult for a trader to try and undercut me now that the hisec price is 1.6m, i sell them for 3m in 0.0, i brought lots when the module was 300k.
I think we just have to accept that theres a bunch of 13/14 year olds playing eve, and they have no idea how to trade, I bet they even lose money when trading cos they are so silly. yes, it makes perfect sense to only undercut by 0.01 cos all were fighting for is the next sale.
Some stupid people will undercut by millions just to get the first sale, this practice is stupid, and just devalues a module.
OP, the situation will not get better, as long as stupid people play eve there will always be stupid sell orders.
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sir gankalot
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Posted - 2009.07.27 15:22:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Ohhh Matron
I too am one of the many mission runners that builds up piles of loot junk and then every so often dumps it on the market. I usally go around 3-4% under.
98% of it sells within 24 hours, I get a wodge of ISK and more than if I'd just sold it straight. I really dont care if serious traders buy the stuff to sell at a higher margin. I got the ISK I want and didnt have to spend hours analysing the market or shifting crap around.
Each to their own.
BAD MATRON! Just right click and sell like a good mission runner! 
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Desperdiciable
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Posted - 2009.07.27 15:22:00 -
[44]
I'm a market destroyer. Not a "trader" per se. I'm only interesting in buying, not selling, but sometimes I'm forced to sell. Usually I'll destroy a market in order to counter traders who increase their buy orders by an extravagant amount, which kills my margins (I won't buy anything over mineral value). So if they want to kill my margins, I'll kill theirs, and cut the price by an extravagent amount. I can make almost everything that I trade in at close to mineral price, and so I can obliterate margins. Most of the time this stabilizes my profits without having to do a lot of research for something new. When it doesn't work, I've still made a profit, and then I'll just move on.
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Sharon Lynn
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Posted - 2009.07.27 15:49:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Jolla Skyia
Number 2 moron is the real problem. These are the guys that will drop their price by 100k every time you under cut them. These are the idiots that somehow think they can crash the price and somehow win. In reality the only thing they do is kill the profits that everyone could have shared in.
So what do you do, with these kind of moronic traders? Buying them out might only encourage them to put more on the market. If you don't buy them out, it's sure someone else will try to under cut them and then the moron will drop his price another 100k until he kills the market price.
So what do you do?
I'm the number 2 "moron", just not with these low priced items but something like 3 to 100 mil
If i buy something for 15 mil and i put it on the market for 20, someone puts one one for 19.999.999.99, then i'll drop my price to 19 mil.
And so on till it gets to 16 mil, that's where i stop lowering the price.
And i do this not because of crashing price or whatever market reason you can think of.
I don't care about profit, i have more isk than i'll ever need, helped by the fact that i stopped playing this game, except for the trading.
And i know others are annoyed because of it, that makes it fun 
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ChinChinneyChin
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.27 17:26:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Sharon Lynn
Originally by: Jolla Skyia
Number 2 moron is the real problem. These are the guys that will drop their price by 100k every time you under cut them. These are the idiots that somehow think they can crash the price and somehow win. In reality the only thing they do is kill the profits that everyone could have shared in.
So what do you do, with these kind of moronic traders? Buying them out might only encourage them to put more on the market. If you don't buy them out, it's sure someone else will try to under cut them and then the moron will drop his price another 100k until he kills the market price.
So what do you do?
I'm the number 2 "moron", just not with these low priced items but something like 3 to 100 mil
If i buy something for 15 mil and i put it on the market for 20, someone puts one one for 19.999.999.99, then i'll drop my price to 19 mil.
And so on till it gets to 16 mil, that's where i stop lowering the price.
And i do this not because of crashing price or whatever market reason you can think of.
I don't care about profit, i have more isk than i'll ever need, helped by the fact that i stopped playing this game, except for the trading.
And i know others are annoyed because of it, that makes it fun
Sharon thats really dumb, the problem is theres hundreds of "sharons", suppose 5 of you follow that logic selling a Drake for example, and u all keep undercutting each other by 100k in half a day u will have wiped 5 million off the value of the drake. all marketeers should simply reduce their price by 0.01 SIMPLY to get the next sale.
if u cant understand that, then good luck to u.
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Sharon Lynn
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Posted - 2009.07.27 17:43:00 -
[47]
Originally by: ChinChinneyChin
Originally by: Sharon Lynn
Originally by: Jolla Skyia
Number 2 moron is the real problem. These are the guys that will drop their price by 100k every time you under cut them. These are the idiots that somehow think they can crash the price and somehow win. In reality the only thing they do is kill the profits that everyone could have shared in.
So what do you do, with these kind of moronic traders? Buying them out might only encourage them to put more on the market. If you don't buy them out, it's sure someone else will try to under cut them and then the moron will drop his price another 100k until he kills the market price.
So what do you do?
I'm the number 2 "moron", just not with these low priced items but something like 3 to 100 mil
If i buy something for 15 mil and i put it on the market for 20, someone puts one one for 19.999.999.99, then i'll drop my price to 19 mil.
And so on till it gets to 16 mil, that's where i stop lowering the price.
And i do this not because of crashing price or whatever market reason you can think of.
I don't care about profit, i have more isk than i'll ever need, helped by the fact that i stopped playing this game, except for the trading.
And i know others are annoyed because of it, that makes it fun
Sharon thats really dumb, the problem is theres hundreds of "sharons", suppose 5 of you follow that logic selling a Drake for example, and u all keep undercutting each other by 100k in half a day u will have wiped 5 million off the value of the drake. all marketeers should simply reduce their price by 0.01 SIMPLY to get the next sale.
if u cant understand that, then good luck to u.
What part of i don't care about profit did you not understand?
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ChinChinneyChin
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.02 13:03:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Sharon Lynn
Originally by: ChinChinneyChin
Originally by: Sharon Lynn
Originally by: Jolla Skyia
Number 2 moron is the real problem. These are the guys that will drop their price by 100k every time you under cut them. These are the idiots that somehow think they can crash the price and somehow win. In reality the only thing they do is kill the profits that everyone could have shared in.
So what do you do, with these kind of moronic traders? Buying them out might only encourage them to put more on the market. If you don't buy them out, it's sure someone else will try to under cut them and then the moron will drop his price another 100k until he kills the market price.
So what do you do?
I'm the number 2 "moron", just not with these low priced items but something like 3 to 100 mil
If i buy something for 15 mil and i put it on the market for 20, someone puts one one for 19.999.999.99, then i'll drop my price to 19 mil.
And so on till it gets to 16 mil, that's where i stop lowering the price.
And i do this not because of crashing price or whatever market reason you can think of.
I don't care about profit, i have more isk than i'll ever need, helped by the fact that i stopped playing this game, except for the trading.
And i know others are annoyed because of it, that makes it fun
Sharon thats really dumb, the problem is theres hundreds of "sharons", suppose 5 of you follow that logic selling a Drake for example, and u all keep undercutting each other by 100k in half a day u will have wiped 5 million off the value of the drake. all marketeers should simply reduce their price by 0.01 SIMPLY to get the next sale.
if u cant understand that, then good luck to u.
What part of i don't care about profit did you not understand?
if u dont care about profit, why do u stop undercutting when u get to 16m?
Why not sell an item u brought for 15m at 13 or 14m?
i suppose when u get down to 16m, then u will be ready to play the 0.01 game.
If u are only buying and selling to annoy other traders, u shud quit trading and do missions.
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Agrilad
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Posted - 2009.08.02 15:00:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Jolla Skyia
Number 2 moron is the real problem. These are the guys that will drop their price by 100k every time you under cut them. These are the idiots that somehow think they can crash the price and somehow win. In reality the only thing they do is kill the profits that everyone could have shared in.
Hmmm. So anyone that doesn't agree with your tactics is a moron? I'd say that is a more sure indication of moronicness then your reason. I won't list out why people under cut you. That was done in other parts of the thread. Akita does a good job of it. So I am just here to point out that people not using the same tactics as you are not necessarily morons. They could be a lot smarter then you, and perhaps you could learn from them.
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Acalin
Gallente
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.08.02 18:16:00 -
[50]
Hmm, on some items i even undercut for 500k-1m.
Its called passive trading, not idiot trading.
I am busy elsewhere, so I dont wanna check every sale on all my traders in all different hubs 20 times a day to undercut 0.1 isk.
I bought something at a certain price, i count my % transport fee and I sell it at a price I find fair.
What i do notice is that by buying global (as in the whole off empire and not just exspensive Jita) I can easaly undercut 0.1 players by a large amount.
This results in them leaving the hub for that item and giving me 100% off sales and profit.
And you call me stupid?
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Jin Nib
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Posted - 2009.08.02 20:02:00 -
[51]
I always like how these OP's polarize different stratagies as dumb/smart, profit/no-profit. Like one way has more validaty then the other.
Clue in people, traders use what works for them, just cause you don't like it, or 'get' it doesnt make it an invalid process.
Note: I don't .01 ISK trade. I always drop the price by huge margins, if others want to follow me down rather then buy my stuff then so be it, enjoy the ride. I'm generally only in that market item for a short time anyways and I really dont care if I crash it or not (actually it gives me pleasure to crash it, but apperently that's an invalid argument).
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.08.02 21:12:00 -
[52]
It's not moronic at all.
I don't market trade in normal items much, but, when I do I play as number 2 (drop prices by like 100k or whatever when someone undercuts me by .01) most of the time.
The reason thats done is it works. I'm not active enough, and when I am I can't be bothered, to play the .01 game + I don't have any one thing I'm invested in trading long term. So if people like you are aggressive in locking me out of whatever market I'm dabbling in with .01-ing; I'll just slowly degrade the market each time it happens, which can only help me. These are the outcomes:
(a) the .01ers leave or get less active, giving me some profit. I don't care that it's less profit than you got; I would have had nearly nothing if playing the .01 game and not worth the time.
(b) I get bought out. Then decide to take my profit and go or to pour more into market
(c) the .01ers keep going until I've wrecked the market. Once it's low enough I stop bothering with it, but leave a sell/buy order up (I have spares, not a big deal) to keep the market wrecked. This doesn't benefit me monetarily, but I DO get the satisfaction that if I am not allowed to gain from the market, no one is  . This is EVE; not WoW, people do that sort of thing and if you can't deal with it you are playing the wrong game.
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Jim Nakamura
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Posted - 2009.08.02 23:26:00 -
[53]
I'm the typical rightclick->sell moron most of the time. It's more trouble than it's worth going through 100+ items and trying to decide what's worth selling and what's not, let alone hauling all that crap to a trade hub and setting up sell orders.
Hell, half the time I just move my ship mods and stuff I want to keep into a separate container, select everything else and reprocess it. And then just rightclick->sell the resulting minerals. It's almost as if I can hear the screams of infuriated traders (and a couple of happy ones with low-balled buy orders) as I do it...
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Pobjesnjeli Dario
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Posted - 2009.08.03 18:40:00 -
[54]
And what if you buy out morons items and he place it again and again and again?
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Jin Nib
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Posted - 2009.08.03 19:19:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Pobjesnjeli Dario
And what if you buy out morons items and he place it again and again and again?
It's good business?
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Grieg IX
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Posted - 2009.08.03 21:40:00 -
[56]
Frankly, I find .01 traders to be annoying so I almost never purchase from a .01 trader. If I see a lot of price points all .01 ISK apart, I will buy from the round number at the top of the list. I am grateful that traders play the .01 game as such price points serve to identify the originators of an order as a trader and I would rather reward producers with my consumption than a trader.
Traders exist because markets are inefficient and the more efficient markets become, the more difficult will be the life of the traders until all producers sell directly to consumers and all consumers purchase directly from producers. I don't much care for those persons that choose parasitic professions; traders, politicians and lawyers included.
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Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.08.03 21:58:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Grieg IX
Frankly, I find .01 traders to be annoying so I almost never purchase from a .01 trader. If I see a lot of price points all .01 ISK apart, I will buy from the round number at the top of the list. I am grateful that traders play the .01 game as such price points serve to identify the originators of an order as a trader and I would rather reward producers with my consumption than a trader.
When you buy from a sell order that is not the lowest price then the person that has the lowest price sells his items and gets paid the higher price. What you are doing is giving the traders, who you say you despise, more income than they were expecting.
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Justinius Augustus
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Posted - 2009.08.03 22:27:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Justinius Augustus on 03/08/2009 22:27:51
I may be a moron--I don't know. I'm a producer, not a trader, so I usually price my merchandise by figuring the opportunity cost of not selling my ore and then marking up maybe 100% from cost. Sometimes when I check the market, I see people with sell orders twice as high as mine, but since I'm in a region that doesn't generally trade in high volume, those prices could be rubbish for all I know. If something sells really fast, I'll increment my next sell order by a modest amount, but I honestly don't care who's buying it, if it's missioners or traders. If somebody is profiting off of my stupidity, more power to them--I'm just happy that my business has high liquidity and I don't have to haul my ore all over the region trying to get the best buy order.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.08.04 00:53:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Jim Nakamura
I'm the typical rightclick->sell moron most of the time. It's more trouble than it's worth going through 100+ items and trying to decide what's worth selling and what's not, let alone hauling all that crap to a trade hub and setting up sell orders.
Hell, half the time I just move my ship mods and stuff I want to keep into a separate container, select everything else and reprocess it. And then just rightclick->sell the resulting minerals. It's almost as if I can hear the screams of infuriated traders (and a couple of happy ones with low-balled buy orders) as I do it...
For awhile in my current corp we used to have a bunch of mission runners. I had a running tab with them that they could contract the entire lot and I would pay them the 20% short. Meaning of the spread between high and low, they would get 20%.
All of them loved it. They didn't have to haul jack crap, or check anything for that matter. Just select all, contract up, and get paid.
Just something for others to think about if you are a trader in a mission running heavy corporation. |
Shadowsword
Epsilon Lyr
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.08.04 09:29:00 -
[60]
The OP is a noob.
Why waste time playing the 0.01 game when I can use the same time killing npcs to gain more millions?
For a newbie, or dedicaced trader, maximising profit is important. But for someone with multi-billions worth of assets like me, I really could care less wether I sell my loot 1.2 or 1.4 millions. I'll start paying attention to profits only when it start involving dozens of millions of lost margins.
Besides, I don't like the 0.01 isk game, so ****ing those players off by lowering their margins or forcing them to buy my stuff become an objective in itself.
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