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Tanja Cyprus
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Posted - 2009.08.04 12:16:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Grieg IX Frankly, I find .01 traders to be annoying so I almost never purchase from a .01 trader. If I see a lot of price points all .01 ISK apart, I will buy from the round number at the top of the list. I am grateful that traders play the .01 game as such price points serve to identify the originators of an order as a trader and I would rather reward producers with my consumption than a trader.
When you buy from a sell order that is not the lowest price then the person that has the lowest price sells his items and gets paid the higher price. What you are doing is giving the traders, who you say you despise, more income than they were expecting.
which is why you do it outside station.
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Xiola Umbar
Minmatar Iron Dragon Industries
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Posted - 2009.08.04 12:28:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Tanja Cyprus
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Grieg IX Frankly, I find .01 traders to be annoying so I almost never purchase from a .01 trader. If I see a lot of price points all .01 ISK apart, I will buy from the round number at the top of the list. I am grateful that traders play the .01 game as such price points serve to identify the originators of an order as a trader and I would rather reward producers with my consumption than a trader.
When you buy from a sell order that is not the lowest price then the person that has the lowest price sells his items and gets paid the higher price. What you are doing is giving the traders, who you say you despise, more income than they were expecting.
which is why you do it outside station.
Huh?
Lowest price wins, regardless.
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Pobjesnjeli Dario
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Posted - 2009.08.04 12:44:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Pobjesnjeli Dario on 04/08/2009 12:44:17 I was selling t2 expanded cargohold for 950k and it was going very fast and then some fool put it at 750k. Thats almost low as Jita price. A day after i bought his items he put it again at same price. Its really stupid and u cant fight those. He is just killing everyones profit.
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.08.04 13:18:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Pobjesnjeli Dario Edited by: Pobjesnjeli Dario on 04/08/2009 12:44:17 I was selling t2 expanded cargohold for 950k and it was going very fast and then some fool put it at 750k. Thats almost low as Jita price. A day after i bought his items he put it again at same price. Its really stupid and u cant fight those. He is just killing everyones profit.
I know where and who is doing this and it annoys me as well. If you want some info send me an eve mail.
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Boink'urr
Minmatar Wasserette De Tarthorst
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Posted - 2009.08.04 16:29:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Shadowsword The OP is a noob.
Why waste time playing the 0.01 game when I can use the same time killing npcs to gain more millions? snip.
Xcuse me, i've only been playing for 6 months but even -I- know you can adjust prices on your orders and kill at the same time :P
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Shadowsword
Epsilon Lyr Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.08.04 17:01:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Boink'urr
Originally by: Shadowsword The OP is a noob.
Why waste time playing the 0.01 game when I can use the same time killing npcs to gain more millions? snip.
Xcuse me, i've only been playing for 6 months but even -I- know you can adjust prices on your orders and kill at the same time :P
Of course, but it degrade your mission-running income (you pay less attention, your grinding lose in efficiency), and running dual accounts is already hard enough without requiring permanent market monitoring. Besides, you'll often be selling in another region that the one you're in. ------------------------------------------
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Gabriel Virtus
hirr
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Posted - 2009.08.04 17:55:00 -
[67]
Buy them out and repost. Maybe send them an evemail thanking them for their patronage. When he drops, .01 isk him. When he does it again, .01 isk him. Eventually buy the market out and repost.
It seems these threads are constantly asked. A summary for newer players.
1. .01 isk him 2. .01 isk him 3. buy out his stock 4. profit
-GV
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2009.08.04 20:35:00 -
[68]
Drive me down enough and buy me out. I do that on principle btw as I don't do 0.01 isk war. So there is 2 options. Drive it down and buy out or let it sit there selling and pray that nobody else undercuts by that 0.01 isk.
Fortunately I don't have neither free capital nor patience to really trade. I can be encountered from time to time cashing in LP tho. I stop at around 1200 isk/LP.
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Jin Nib
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Posted - 2009.08.05 01:25:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Gabriel Virtus Buy them out and repost. Maybe send them an evemail thanking them for their patronage. When he drops, .01 isk him. When he does it again, .01 isk him. Eventually buy the market out and repost.
It seems these threads are constantly asked. A summary for newer players.
1. .01 isk him 2. .01 isk him 3. buy out his stock 4. profit
-GV
And everyone wins. Or you could just whine on the forums...
"Wah... someone's poaching my market like a big meanie! Make them stop."
-Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Caleb Ayrania
Gallente TarNec New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2009.08.05 02:09:00 -
[70]
Gentlemen your manners..
Dear OP Welcome to the MD.
Tycoon wannabe go here: SCC Lounge Got Game? Peak a boo... |
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Hippy Dave
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Posted - 2009.08.05 03:01:00 -
[71]
As many have pointed out there are numerous and perfectly valid reasons for both the examples laid out by the OP. Dont see the problem myself.
Now the really irritating people are the ones who think adjusting the price by 0.5 or 1 rather than 0.1 will give them some upper hand or advantage in the 0.1 war...
It cant be manipulation (it would take way to long) its just people thinking that somehow a tiny amount more will suddenly force everyone else out.
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Caleb Ayrania
Gallente TarNec New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2009.08.05 04:44:00 -
[72]
Well microbidders are to market what can flippers and salvage thieves are in space...
Its part of current mechanics.. No way to avoid it..
OP is evolved to fit the microbids, but have not yet seen there is a thing called a donchian and read up on turnover..
Also there is ofc grief from bigger fish that might want to mess with your market simply because it might benefit him elsewhere...
Oh and on an end note.. Some traders are actually into pushing and pulling market according to their production or regional buying cycles..
Tycoon wannabe go here: SCC Lounge Got Game? Peak a boo... |
Shadowsword
Epsilon Lyr Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.08.05 09:39:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Hippy Dave ...Now the really irritating people are the ones who think adjusting the price by 0.5 or 1 rather than 0.1 will give them some upper hand or advantage in the 0.1 war...
It cant be manipulation (it would take way to long) its just people thinking that somehow a tiny amount more will suddenly force everyone else out.
Maybe the reason they do it is just that: to irritate you. It's not like it cost them anything to do this... ------------------------------------------
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jk scowling
Sane Industries Inc. Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.08.05 14:52:00 -
[74]
Oh, is it that time again, another "ur not doinitrite!!!" 0.01 isk thread. All we need now is another one berating people for undercutting by 0.01 isk.
Fact is, people have different methods for trading, and if you don't have loads of time to sit changing orders aggressive undercutting can work.
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.08.05 15:36:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Durzel on 05/08/2009 15:40:30
Originally by: Jolla Skyia Number 2 moron is the real problem. These are the guys that will drop their price by 100k every time you under cut them. These are the idiots that somehow think they can crash the price and somehow win. In reality the only thing they do is kill the profits that everyone could have shared in.
I hate playing 0.01 ISK games, haven't got the time nor patience for it.
If I just want to sell something and some other lamer keeps gazumping me by 0.01 ISK then I think f*** it down the price comes. I just want to sell it and GTFO out of Jita, I don't particularly care about the profit margin so long as it's above the buy order price.
Also I don't really see the problem - as has been said already you can just buy the cheap trader out and restock it at your inflated price, everyone's a winner.
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Sharon Lynn
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Posted - 2009.08.05 16:52:00 -
[76]
Originally by: ChinChinneyChin
if u dont care about profit, why do u stop undercutting when u get to 16m?
Why not sell an item u brought for 15m at 13 or 14m?
i suppose when u get down to 16m, then u will be ready to play the 0.01 game.
If u are only buying and selling to annoy other traders, u shud quit trading and do missions.
I stop at 16 to keep the profit for others low, i'm not playing that 0.01 game. I won't sell for less then i bought because i don't see why i should.
I don't see why doing missions has anything to do with annoying other traders.
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Acalin
Gallente Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.08.05 20:56:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Pobjesnjeli Dario Edited by: Pobjesnjeli Dario on 04/08/2009 12:44:17 I was selling t2 expanded cargohold for 950k and it was going very fast and then some fool put it at 750k. Thats almost low as Jita price. A day after i bought his items he put it again at same price. Its really stupid and u cant fight those. He is just killing everyones profit.
he might be making em and now he doesnt need to ship it to jita since u buy em?
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Acalin
Gallente Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.08.05 21:00:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Sharon Lynn
Originally by: ChinChinneyChin
if u dont care about profit, why do u stop undercutting when u get to 16m?
Why not sell an item u brought for 15m at 13 or 14m?
i suppose when u get down to 16m, then u will be ready to play the 0.01 game.
If u are only buying and selling to annoy other traders, u shud quit trading and do missions.
I stop at 16 to keep the profit for others low, i'm not playing that 0.01 game. I won't sell for less then i bought because i don't see why i should.
I don't see why doing missions has anything to do with annoying other traders.
replying as I read hence the dubbel post
Exactly Sharon.
Sell at your margin off profit, if its to low for the rest let them move. This is called FREE TRADE.
Hope I didnt sound to excited :p
Acalin
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Desperdiciable
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Posted - 2009.08.06 13:49:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Hippy Dave Now the really irritating people are the ones who think adjusting the price by 0.5 or 1 rather than 0.1 will give them some upper hand or advantage in the 0.1 war...
Because I found it irritating when it happened to me, I imagined that it would be irritating to others, too. So, that's why I do it, and as said above, I lose nothing (or more precisely, nothing in practical terms) by it. Depending on my mood, I'll round to the nearest 1, 10, 15, or whatever. I like the round numbers.
However when I find people who invariable try to "code" their trades by always terminating with 0.99, or 0.23, or whatnot, I'll do the same thing, just to **** them off, too.
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Desperdiciable
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Posted - 2009.08.06 13:50:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Desperdiciable on 06/08/2009 13:49:50 edit: double post
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.08.06 15:16:00 -
[81]
Quote:
Of course, but it degrade your mission-running income (you pay less attention, your grinding lose in efficiency), and running dual accounts is already hard enough without requiring permanent market monitoring
Duh, I trade, mission and dual hulk with no issue. It's not like my arties fire quicker or mining lasers take less than 3 mins per cycle if I don't alt tab...
Quote:
As many have pointed out there are numerous and perfectly valid reasons for both the examples laid out by the OP. Dont see the problem myself.
Now the really irritating people are the ones who think adjusting the price by 0.5 or 1 rather than 0.1 will give them some upper hand or advantage in the 0.1 war...
It cant be manipulation (it would take way to long) its just people thinking that somehow a tiny amount more will suddenly force everyone else out
Besides to annoy others, this custom has originally born off traders who usually trade at Jita on super high volume items and do this out of habit now. The 0.5 is because by the time you finish typing the one digit that changes, 3-4 new orders were already made undercutting the one you want to undercut.
- Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Gabriel Rosencrantz
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Posted - 2009.08.06 16:01:00 -
[82]
1. Acquire goods at prices below best Jita buy (preferably) or best Jita sell. 2. Go to where dumb traders think they own the hub in their region. 3. List items at prices above your buy price but below the prevailing hub price. 4. Sell crazy volume because all the stupid traders are doing their buying and selling at THIS hub, instead of the more competively priced Jita hub, because they have some crazy notion about what prices "should be." 5. Profit like crazy. 6. Repeat
Note: the reality is, you're buying below what your selling, so we BOTH make money. So, what are you complaining about? Your likely response will be "but you could make more." True, but then I would have to sit at my computer playing the .01 game. Instead, I manage my other char's and make even more than what I would be piddling around with market orders. |
Daeva Vios
New Eden Credit Bureau
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Posted - 2009.08.06 17:27:00 -
[83]
I love these threads.
If I'm making money, I win.
If I'm irritating you, I win.
If I happen to do both with the same order, double win.
Emotional traders make mistakes. Please, rant all you want. The angrier you get, the more fun I'm having. ------------------------------------- NECB |
Teras Menac
Gallente Caldari POS Constructions Inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.06 18:51:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Mordou Use him to drive all the prices down, then buy everything up, then profit.
This if it's possible, but sometimes they just drop more units that it is worth it to buy. Usually I simply punish them by driving their prices down to a narrow profit margin and then wait for them to sell out.
I don't know why they think they'll sell faster by driving down the prices. In many places if something is selling at a higher price then they won't sell any faster at the lower rate because people are simply buying based on need not based on price.
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Teras Menac
Gallente Caldari POS Constructions Inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.06 18:54:00 -
[85]
Originally by: jk scowling Oh, is it that time again, another "ur not doinitrite!!!" 0.01 isk thread. All we need now is another one berating people for undercutting by 0.01 isk.
Fact is, people have different methods for trading, and if you don't have loads of time to sit changing orders aggressive undercutting can work.
Oh look it's another 'ur not doinitrite!!!' complaint reply about a topic they didn't even have to open.
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Mikael Genexi
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Posted - 2009.08.06 18:59:00 -
[86]
Sometimes using the .01 method is the right way to trade, sometimes it isn't.
If you think it is the only way to "trade properly" then you aren't a very good trader.
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Teras Menac
Gallente Caldari POS Constructions Inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.06 19:06:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Sharon Lynn
Originally by: Jolla Skyia
Number 2 moron is the real problem. These are the guys that will drop their price by 100k every time you under cut them. These are the idiots that somehow think they can crash the price and somehow win. In reality the only thing they do is kill the profits that everyone could have shared in.
So what do you do, with these kind of moronic traders? Buying them out might only encourage them to put more on the market. If you don't buy them out, it's sure someone else will try to under cut them and then the moron will drop his price another 100k until he kills the market price.
So what do you do?
I'm the number 2 "moron", just not with these low priced items but something like 3 to 100 mil If i buy something for 15 mil and i put it on the market for 20, someone puts one one for 19.999.999.99, then i'll drop my price to 19 mil. And so on till it gets to 16 mil, that's where i stop lowering the price.
And i do this not because of crashing price or whatever market reason you can think of. I don't care about profit, i have more isk than i'll ever need, helped by the fact that i stopped playing this game, except for the trading.
And i know others are annoyed because of it, that makes it fun
Yeah, you are the perfect target for 'punishment'. IE, I'll lose money in order to get out of a particular market if someone like you comes along, but I'll make sure to bring your profit margin low in the same way you brought mine low. There are ways to do it to ensure that you don't actually sell that much.
Say you lower it by 1m I lower it by .01 you lower it by 1m I lower it by .01, someone else lowers it by .01 you lower it by 1m, and before we know it we're at your cost price. You stop at your floor, I lower it by a million, someone else lowers it by .01, I reset my price back to the other side of the 'bubble' where the gap between the bidding wars occurred and wait for you guys to sell out.
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Otebski
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Posted - 2009.08.07 12:07:00 -
[88]
Another moron here:
I dont want to baby sit my orders. I dont do trading full time When I see a trading oportunity i want to get back cash from it fast.
Selling warriors II at 430k if i bought em for 380k is perfectly fine for me even if current market price is 480k. Because I get back invested cash same day and can put it to use elsewhere. And my carecup is empty when i get QQ mails people telling me how they spend 2 weeks driving price up that high.
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Arelys
Arelys Cartel
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Posted - 2009.08.07 12:24:00 -
[89]
Sadly you are assuming that the number 2 moron has an infinte amount of liquid assets. Assuming that he cant move that much goods at the time, selling at significantly lower prices for a profit will yeild a higher turnover of goods and while his Profit/Good might not be as high as yours, his Profit/Time is probably higher.
Also, you seem to belive that all goods in the market are being sold by wholesale traders. Assuming that the traders operating in your market has an intrest in setting a lower price standard for the region, he might not be as bothered with small term profit but rather the possiblity a long-term price standard that suits him.
My point in this being; Don't be quick in assuming that people are morons just because they aint following your philosophy of trading, rather try and figure out their place and goal in the market and use them for your own profit Ship explosions are legen, wait for it, DARY!!!! |
Cynel
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Posted - 2009.08.07 14:14:00 -
[90]
Number [..] moron here :)
OP, you are a trader and do it for profit. The more profit you get, the happier you are. I am not a trader, but I like to undercut your price by 10-15% Why? Because I want you to drop your price, I want everyone in the region to drop their price. Why? Because I like to PvP and I don't find it interesting flying to Jita to get cheap(er) stuff. Yeh, pretty often I have to buy new ship and fit. So I get a few overpriced items I use in PvP and put them on market, undercutting your price by 200k If you follow me a couple of times, I stop and let you have the cheapest offers on market, hoping the other "0.01 traders" follow you. Now I have my almost-Jita-prices right where I live, I can go and get blown up much cheaper.
And one might say, I've also defeated you on market PvP, because instead of the 3 million profit I would have paid you, now you only get 1. That would be 2 million profit for me $$
Of course it's an alt post, I don't need hate in game
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