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stealing mission objective items.

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monkfish2345	Posted - 2009.07.28 15:09:00 - [1] have just been having a conversation with someone who had their objective item stolen from a mission leaving it impossible to complete. was just wondering what the ccp line is on this? monk
Taua Roqa Minmatar junQtion	Posted - 2009.07.28 15:12:00 - [2] i've done this and generously offered the storyline items back for only 50million isk, they never accepted. IIRC you just have to offer them the items back for a price, iirc.
Sniper Wolf18 Gallente A Pretty Pony Princess General Tso's Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.28 15:18:00 - [3] Some Gms will reset their mission and gief them their stuff back iirc. Those GMs should also roll back the server everytime we lose a fight, or be fired for preferential treatment of filthy dumb carebear scum. I got 3hrs sleep, dont whine about my spelling, cant really do **** right now... And to finish, thank you for reading my sig -------------------------------------------------- If you are still reading i would probably hav posted by now
Tiny Tove	Posted - 2009.07.28 15:27:00 - [4] I always thought that being unable to complete a mission was part of the game mechanics, it's not going to bring up any sort of "GAME OVER" message. Sadly there are some GMs out there who seem to think that failing a mission is just far too high a price to pay for some people.
Drunk Driver Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.07.28 15:28:00 - [5] Hmmmmm... Steal mission objective items and ransom them.
Willy Pete Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.07.28 15:32:00 - [6] I don't do this, but my understanding from those who do is that so long as you give the MR the possiblity to recover the item, such as putting it up on contract for a not too extortionate price, it's a legitimate form of play and the mission should not be reset. Obviously, your mileage will vary based on the whim of the GM you get should you chose to petition.
Zedrik Cayne Gallente Standards and Practices	Posted - 2009.07.28 15:33:00 - [7] There have been myriad discussions on this. If memory serves, the current line to toe is this: You steal, you ransom it back for profit. Not attempting to ransom it back means you're just plain griefing someone and griefing is explicitly against the EULA. (Mind you, putting the objects in question up on contracts immediately for a large isk payout is within the realm of profiting from your scanning/stealing 'work', so probably aught not be considered grief play) The mission runner can (usually) buy required items off the market/contracts, wait a day when the mission will reset itself and new mission items will spawn, fail the mission and take the hit, or petition a GM to have their mission reset. Now, the sketchy part where a mission runner gets his mission reset in order to be able to complete it is quite possibly against the EULA, especially if the items were offered back for isk. Which has been another of the arguments bandied about around the situation. In general, its not something that CCP seems to bother with much either way. I've got plenty of bits and pieces of mission objectives that I sell to runners who ask in local from folks who have refused a reasonable ransom (about 1/2 to 2/3 of the mission turn-in value I find works) so folks who have refused to buy their objectives back from me thinking they are stiffing me from a profit are mistaken. They are just denying me an immediate profit. For a real from CCP answer, you can petition them with your question. But of course its not kosher to discuss petitions or GM communication on the forums, so even if you get an answer, you can't share it. Have a nice day. -- Originally by: "RedSplat" You're the internet equivalent of a Deepfried Mars bar filled with stupid.
Tiny Tove	Posted - 2009.07.28 15:39:00 - [8] Originally by: Zedrik Cayne I've got plenty of bits and pieces of mission objectives that I sell to runners who ask in local from folks who have refused a reasonable ransom (about 1/2 to 2/3 of the mission turn-in value I find works) so folks who have refused to buy their objectives back from me thinking they are stiffing me from a profit are mistaken. They are just denying me an immediate profit. If the small percentage standings hit, which won't even be enough to stop you starting another mission immediately, is so devastatingly game breaking for the mission runner, than 300 million isk is not too much to ask. However, the very small percentage standings hit won't affect them in the slightest in the vast majority of cases. I've had to bail realistically four or five missions for one reason or another and I think two or three just timed out while I was off elsewhere having fun, I can't really say that it was a particularly devastating outcome on any of those occasions. I can't understand the counter intuitive attitude there seems to be about mission failures.
monkfish management	Posted - 2009.07.28 16:11:00 - [9] hehe thanks for the replies, it's kinda an odd topic with no clear answer. tbh i would just wait for the next dt and go do something interesting instead. gotta love grey areas :). monk
Awesome Possum Insert Obscure Latin Name	Posted - 2009.07.28 16:24:00 - [10] If the mission is marked completed in their journal (i.e. the pleasure garden is destroyed and the can with the damsel is dropped), then the mission will not respawn the next DT. This means they have to aquire the damsel from you, contracts, or pray a GM will reset it. ♥ Wreck Disposal Services

Bongo Debbie Minmatar Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2009.07.28 16:28:00 - [11] It's definitely a grey area regarding what gets classed as 'griefing' in this situation. Considering the majority of mission runners have high standings, I'd just fail the mission and get on with it to be honest. ----
Cindy McCain GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.07.28 17:17:00 - [12] Originally by: Zedrik Cayne griefing is explicitly against the EULA. Hahahaha, about that...
Zedrik Cayne Gallente Standards and Practices	Posted - 2009.07.28 17:36:00 - [13] Originally by: Cindy McCain Originally by: Zedrik Cayne griefing is explicitly against the EULA. Hahahaha, about that... Well, it is in there Its just the definition of what is grief play vs. what is actually acceptable in the game is rather, er, loose. For the most part, if you can do it its allowed except when its not. And then expect someone to make a stink about it. God, the GM's must hate us sometimes for the crap we come up with. (And then in turn hate the folks who run through petitions about it.) There's one job I'm glad I don't have. -- Originally by: "RedSplat" You're the internet equivalent of a Deepfried Mars bar filled with stupid.
Kybernis Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.07.28 18:08:00 - [14] Also, remind your colleague to not afk missions. It is fairly easy to lose a mission item if you ignore it for too long.
g0ggalor	Posted - 2009.07.28 19:09:00 - [15] I steal mission objectives every chance I get. It brings out enough tears to fuel my ship for months.
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive	Posted - 2009.07.28 19:55:00 - [16] Edited by: De''Veldrin on 28/07/2009 19:55:20 Originally by: Sniper Wolf18 Those GMs should also roll back the server everytime we suicide gank a hulk, or be fired for preferential treatment of filthy dumb pirate scum. I fixed your post. Also, the one time I lost my mission objectives the GM response was "Wait for the mission to respawn tomorrow". --Vel Experience is what you get right after you need it.
Erroch's Keeper	Posted - 2009.07.28 20:14:00 - [17] That's a very interesitng way to look at it. I had a mission not spawn the other day (I'd starting to warp to it, canceled, redocked to take care of some out of game issues). I wonder if someone'd scaned it down, stoken the damsel, and didn't know who to ransom it back to. Fairly amusing. I ended up petitioning it a day later since I never actually saw the mission and it was reset for me. For more fun, I supose you can do something like this: Blow up the pleasure hub in Damsel. Wait for the mission runner to loot the resulting cans (read: your cans.) Kill said mission runner.
Erroch Caldari STK Scientific The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.07.28 20:16:00 - [18] Originally by: Erroch's Keeper .... I keep forgetting to flip this thing over to my real character
Zedrik Cayne Gallente Standards and Practices	Posted - 2009.07.28 20:22:00 - [19] Originally by: Erroch's Keeper That's a very interesitng way to look at it. I had a mission not spawn the other day (I'd starting to warp to it, canceled, redocked to take care of some out of game issues). I wonder if someone'd scaned it down, stoken the damsel, and didn't know who to ransom it back to. Fairly amusing. I ended up petitioning it a day later since I never actually saw the mission and it was reset for me. For more fun, I supose you can do something like this: Blow up the pleasure hub in Damsel. Wait for the mission runner to loot the resulting cans (read: your cans.) Kill said mission runner. They 'fixed' this a while back...every thing in the mission, regardless of who killed it, belongs to the mission runner..so you can't gank him for stealing 'your' stuff because its all 'his'. So good idea, bad understanding of the mechanics involved. 2/10 for effort. -- Originally by: "RedSplat" You're the internet equivalent of a Deepfried Mars bar filled with stupid.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.07.28 20:26:00 - [20] You could just blow it up -> Loot damsel -> drop it in a can, however.

Erroch Caldari STK Scientific The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.07.28 20:30:00 - [21] Originally by: Zedrik Cayne They 'fixed' this a while back...every thing in the mission, regardless of who killed it, belongs to the mission runner..so you can't gank him for stealing 'your' stuff because its all 'his'. So good idea, bad understanding of the mechanics involved. 2/10 for effort.[/quote Thaks for clearing that up. Its been a few years since I've shot anything in someone else's missions. So this would mean that looting from a mission can, even if you killed it, flags you to be a valid target to the mission runner?
Zedrik Cayne Gallente Standards and Practices	Posted - 2009.07.28 20:34:00 - [22] Originally by: Kahega Amielden You could just blow it up -> Loot damsel -> drop it in a can, however. SHHHHHHH! Occasionally mission runners do read this stuff y'know. -- Originally by: "RedSplat" You're the internet equivalent of a Deepfried Mars bar filled with stupid.
Zedrik Cayne Gallente Standards and Practices	Posted - 2009.07.28 20:35:00 - [23] Originally by: Erroch Thaks for clearing that up. Its been a few years since I've shot anything in someone else's missions. So this would mean that looting from a mission can, even if you killed it, flags you to be a valid target to the mission runner? Yup. You go nice and red (not red flashy anymore). (I personally swapped my overview back the other way, but by default its a nice solid red which is much less disconcerting than the flashy red it was previously) -- Originally by: "RedSplat" You're the internet equivalent of a Deepfried Mars bar filled with stupid.
Kybernis Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.07.28 20:37:00 - [24] I do spend time shooting rats in other people's missions. Even if I kill the rat, I am flagged to the mission runner after looting the wreck.
Joe Starbreaker The Fighting Republicans	Posted - 2009.07.28 21:26:00 - [25] According to the canned GM response when you petition (as I once did when I accidentally blew up my mission item) the GMs will not replace mission items lost due to normal game mechanics, such as theft or ship destruction. They explicitly mention that theft by another player is legitimate. However in my experience, the mission runners (as you know, the lowest form of EVE life) will often petition and lie about the circumstances. They'll tell the GM that the mission item just didn't spawn. They'll get the mission reset and then smack talk you in Local. -/ the fighting republicans /-
Erroch's Keeper	Posted - 2009.07.28 21:51:00 - [26] Originally by: Zedrik Cayne Yup. You go nice and red (not red flashy anymore). (I personally swapped my overview back the other way, but by default its a nice solid red which is much less disconcerting than the flashy red it was previously) Yeah, that's a shame. At least we can change it back to the way it was. The flashing red was a rather nice attention getter.
Herty The Sexy Carebear Boredom Convention	Posted - 2009.07.28 23:14:00 - [27] My stance on this is that as long as you are a roleplayer then it is perfectly fair. You have to stop those mission runners from hurting your npc brothers dont you?
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.07.29 01:00:00 - [28] Originally by: Bongo Debbie Some stuff OK Bongo.. Mission accomplished... I scrolled through and wondered when I had replied to this thread.. How much to remove the sig?
Sue Malorie Caldari Dai Dai Hai	Posted - 2009.07.29 22:23:00 - [29] Edited by: Sue Malorie on 29/07/2009 22:24:36 In static cosmos systems (area for cosmos mission runners) everyone share the same missions. The rats who drop mission loot have a fast respawn rate. However, there may be campers who sit in the same systems almost 24/7 and kill everything. That is not cool for the mission runners. Good advice to the cosmos campers; make way for the mission runners, but it's ok to help these guys out to form fleet and help killing these rats. For the ordinary missions where mission area is random (not shared) if someone else came in a kill the mission rat and take the loot, petition it. If the mission rat is killed by you and someone else loot the wreck, petition it anyway. Some mission loot can actually be bought on marked or via contracts, that goes for cosmos mission loot. As for myself, when I do not run any missions - specially cosmos missions and always give loot to the mission runners. Even I may run cosmos mission, I may give loot for free since I do know when rats will spawns again and where. Notepad with alot of info :-) It's not common info, but there are some huge ships to be seen even in high sec astro belts, these are often connected to lvl 4 cosmos missions. I don't see the point of ruin other missions (cosmos or ordinary mission), when you can run missions by yourself. A good advice to new players, be sure you pick agents who are located 5-6 jumps from low sec. There are more isk to earn by doing missions in low sec, but it's a huge risk unless you know the locals. There are also missions given out by Serpentis / Sansha / Guristas and Blood raiders. These agents are located deep into 0.0 where rat factions have their SOV. Players who want to run these agents probably needs some good standing towards the locals since 0.0 are free for all to kill or be killed. A good advice to new players are this, find a system far away from the main routes (trading etc) and far away from low sec. In the summer, when schools are on the break, there are sadly too may low lifers playing just to harm others. As for myself I do have some players jumping into mine lvl 4 missions, but I usual do this; I aggro the whole room (whatever mission it is) and I sometimes fail mission or finish it. Depends, since I can take alot of standing hit because of mine skills and effective standing to NPC agents and corp. Cheers, SM
Ralnik	Posted - 2009.07.30 06:49:00 - [30] Wouldn't the better option be to go shoot what ever the mission objective is, then wait for him to loot the wreck.

Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2009.07.30 07:03:00 - [31] Originally by: Ralnik Wouldn't the better option be to go shoot what ever the mission objective is, then wait for him to loot the wreck. Works for me. And yeah, im in yer page 2 sniping your posts.. What have I been up to?
Spatiospleen	Posted - 2009.10.06 16:26:00 - [32] Edited by: Spatiospleen on 06/10/2009 16:28:40 i was vitctim of a ransom of a damsel. doing lvl4 with BS, the pirate BC just stick the objective wich drop the can of the damsel, he destroyed it steal it, warped out to put in station, and comeback for negociation. 1/ i cant do anything for forbidde him to steal it, he's neutral before steal it, so i cant shot him before he steal, without been shooting myself by concord in response. 2/ his ship is cheaper than my (bs fit mission), and probably fit pvp scrambled jamm dampener etc, not me, so a confrontation is heavy risqued for me, and i've more to loose in isk than him. 3/ he ask ransom of 30m (the mission reward is 2m) tahts not a fair pric, only 1 ransom can cover the evantually loss of his ship... 4/ if i pay, he will continue to do this 30m easy protected by concord...why will he stop a buisness without matter ? 5/ if i refused i must cancel mission, the result is an important loss of standing, (in my case after that i should leave system to take an agent with 6 quality of less, 3hours ruined...) So that the game allow pirating its a fact and not bad, but it should also give opportunity to wrestle against also. Actually pirates are concord protected, stealer can steal every time at 100%. they have pvp fit ship so a fight its not a good idea for the mission runner. pirates dont have any reason to stop this buissness, ransom for 30m.. they win money in every case without loss, isntead mission runner loss or money or standing or ship. thats really unfair. By comparaison, the ninja salvager can be fight with destroying wreck, isntead a can stealer cannot be fighted, he steals cargo before we target cargo....and in the case of we destroy by chance the cargo, we 'll loose standing at 100%, so we loose also. The mechanic of the game is wrong, ccp must give missioner a possibility to defend missioner, because actually, missioner are **ed at 100% and piracy is encoruaged by the game mecanism. there are several way for dot that: - change objective mission, - securise the objective mission, - or more radical, put red the ship who are not in a fleet and directly warp in our deadspace....coz he 's not doing tourism he's here for steal to the missioner some money...and a threat must be considered like a threat, not like neutral. ccp must realise that people who do mission are client, and if they have the game ruining by obvious ccp mechanism allowed pirates, they can simply stop to pay...instead to be **ed off without any possibility of defense.
Bhaumut	Posted - 2009.10.06 16:43:00 - [33] Originally by: Ralnik Wouldn't the better option be to go shoot what ever the mission objective is, then wait for him to loot the wreck. Actually the cans are theirs even if you shoot their mission objective, or they were at least for me. Meaning they are still under the ownership of the mission runner. And I have had my mission hijacked when i left it for a day once, however after the reset the mission itself reseted. Also works on missions where you need to kill certain targets before they escape so on and so forth, they escape, it says you fail.. wait till reset.. poof mission is reset. Though its obvious that you need to wait till past reset, in which case takes to long for some. I know I'm impatient personally. :P
Paul Clavet Honorless Internet Jerks	Posted - 2009.10.06 21:24:00 - [34] http://www.mylootyourtears.com/?p=136 Mission objectives drop in cans that are free for all and do not flag aggro on theft. I have rescued many a Damsel from the seedy glare of the MissionPedoBear. ---- Blog: My Loot, Your Tears
TIM GNARKILL Gnarkill INC	Posted - 2009.10.07 03:07:00 - [35] Originally by: Spatiospleen Incomprehensible blob of text. That post needs subtitles. ------- Originally by: Misanth Gnarkill got the best sigs on these forums, c/d?
Logit Probit	Posted - 2009.10.07 06:42:00 - [36] Originally by: Zedrik Cayne Originally by: Kahega Amielden You could just blow it up -> Loot damsel -> drop it in a can, however. SHHHHHHH! Occasionally mission runners do read this stuff y'know. LOL. I know of 300 mission runners who don't.
Steve Celeste Caldari Overdogs	Posted - 2009.10.07 10:18:00 - [37] Originally by: Zedrik Cayne and griefing is explicitly against the EULA. Show me where it says that griefing is illegal. You cant.
Kiva Aharan	Posted - 2009.10.07 14:49:00 - [38] I think the GMs tend to reset missions when the MR is unaware that they have been robbed. I'd imagine if I petition that the loot simply wasn't there I'd get them to reset it. Probably takes too much to figure out if the loot was stolen or simply wasn't there.
Dirk Mortice	Posted - 2009.10.07 16:42:00 - [39] 1. Take mission item 2. drop 50 jet cans 3. place mission item in one of said cans 4. tell mission runner to hurry
MirrorGod Heretic Army Heretic Nation	Posted - 2009.10.07 16:58:00 - [40] Originally by: Zedrik Cayne .... and griefing is explicitly against the EULA.

Dear Abby Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.10.07 19:03:00 - [41] Originally by: Bongo Debbie It's definitely a grey area regarding what gets classed as 'griefing' in this situation. Considering the majority of mission runners have high standings, I'd just fail the mission and get on with it to be honest. There really isn't a grey area at all - There are two types of mission drops - Those that are open to anyone to take in gang or not (You don't get flagged for taking the item) and those that are in a can belonging to the mission runner and flag you for taking the item. If you are flanged the mission runner has the ability to blow you up and the mission should not be reset because no game mechanics were side stepped. If you are not flagged for taking the item the mission should be reset because you had no chance to defend or regain the item without concord intervention. That said - bug report those mission that the completion item doesn't flag a theft on as they do not follow the games mechanics.
Dorian Wylde	Posted - 2009.10.07 20:14:00 - [42] Originally by: Logit Probit Originally by: Zedrik Cayne Originally by: Kahega Amielden You could just blow it up -> Loot damsel -> drop it in a can, however. SHHHHHHH! Occasionally mission runners do read this stuff y'know. LOL. I know of 300 mission runners who don't. I can show you one that does though ;)
Ashley Sky Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2009.10.08 21:41:00 - [43] Unfortunately most mission objectives are dirt cheap in contracts, so you can't get much for ransoming them back.


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